BR regulations for Port Battles

[Lord Vicious]

32 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Dont know how many times we have ask the same change over and over.

and we will keep since they say they listen to community

 

[Guest]

Would definitely be interesting to try, hopefully we will have raids acting as a quick testing template for PB mechanics.

Quick concerns off the top of my head:

BR would have to be continuously managed (which hasn't been much of an issue so far other than for bragging rights), leading to flavour of the month ships who punch above their BR weight until they're tweaked. Which would be a very hard thing to do given the different factors involved.

There's hardly any reason to not fill all 25 slots, or to pick a single larger ship over two semi-large ships (unless the new BR is completely different from the current one rather than just tweaked). Could lead to mono-fleets of 25x ships of whichever BR that fits.

The potential for trolling by lone players who can enter with high-BR ships to steal more than just a slot and then escape. Make that 2 or 3 players and they could probably leave a PB fleet crippled beyond any hope rather than just a nuisance.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Guest

[Jeheil]

I like the idea, but I don't see how it works without a lobby to organise....and I don't want lobby....I would prefer are more complex, multi sage Port Battle...a tog-of-war type thing others have discussed elsewhere.

Now if someone can explain how this works without a lobby, then I am interested again.

[Lord Vicious]

1 hour ago, Jeheil said:

I like the idea, but I don't see how it works without a lobby to organise....and I don't want lobby....I would prefer are more complex, multi sage Port Battle...a tog-of-war type thing others have discussed elsewhere.

Now if someone can explain how this works without a lobby, then I am interested again.

 

lobby and organization still an issue, but at list we not see mono agamennon fleet anymore, it add a lot of more complexity and it diminish the  administration problem and impact of randoms

[Captiva]

I'm in favor of the BR idea.

To put more emphasis on strategic planning what if it is mandated that you must have a minimum of 3 or maybe even 4 classes of ships represented in both deep and shallow water port battles?

This is the way I envision large battles, where ships of the line are protected by frigates which in turn are supported by smaller ships. 

[JollyRoger1516]

Vicious when the hell did you start to become a reasonable person? I like the idea - I miss the good old tiems before armor values when the meta wasn't that important and Essex and Trinc and even Frigates would regularly join 4th rate PBs - diversion was fun. Your suggestion would also not ruin the game for those that love SOLs - they are still a fully viable thing outside of the port battle but inside the number would probably be reasonably limited.

[Hethwill]

BR can be "bought" by clever use of "earned hostility" points when hostility is tweaked to properly provide risk and challenge.

The original idea is good but requires a lot more than simply gather your friends and moshpit BR.

[Eishen]

Fully support a  BR limit in port battles, the meta would be more diverse than currently , specially with land making each battle different.  After testing it at ok making both BR limits variable depending on hostility (hethwill) could be introduced for extra playability in the hostility build procedures.

The number of slots inm PB part....  well, t would be great , but I think this is more on the field of technical limitations/design

[Hethwill]

If you throw in Steel's grand suggestion for intricate and high level tactical Port Battles we could have a high quality conquest battles system.

 

[OlavDeng2]

Since there is allready a topic on this suggestion, please continue the discussion there(eishen has the link)

[Eishen]

Merged both topics to have a full view of them

[The Spud]

So lets say we use the BR limited and maybe class limited Port Battle. To make it easier to "compose" a fleet. Upon PB time opener, a 20 minute clock starts to count down until start of the battle. During 15 of those 20 minutes people can join the Pre Battle screen, with a max of say 35 ships.

Screen has 7 columns (1 per shiprate), you get put in the column according to your shiprate. At the top you see a BR counter, and you can see the BR limit. So you know if the fleet is over or under the BR limit. At the end of the 15 minutes you now have 5 minutes to compose a fleet out of all ships in the pre battle screen, with a maximum of 25 ships. Players can discuss and voluntarely check a "withdrawal" checkbox to remove them from the battle fleet. This way the players can discuss and can fiddle around until they have reached best composition and have respected the class limit.

9 out of 10 times this will probably go without a problem, should some people refuse to leave the battle fleet, the top 3 players having the most hostility points to their name have the right to remove whoever they want. So you could have 4 minutes of voluntary composing, and the last minute the top 3 players can still remove and add whoever they want.

In case none of the players in the battle have any hostility points, the choice is random amongst highest levelled players. In case there is no valid fleet at the end of the 5 minutes, a minimum amount of ships will be removed to reach BR limit. For example If the BR limit is exceeded by 10 BR, the game will randomly remove one of the ships with the lowest BR.

I would realy like this to be in, and I would rather have a BR limit instead of a class limit. As otherwise we'll only see agga's as 4th rates, trincs as 5th rates, and so on. With BR limit, even small ships would be interesting to get in, cause if you have 50BR left you can put a snow in there or something and it might not live long, but it might do a couple of rakes that in the end tip the balance a bit. Would also be cool to not know what you are up against, that would be a game changer.

[Eishen]

12 minutes ago, The Spud said:

To make it easier to "compose" a fleet....

Interesting system (but I am very contrary to allow a player to "take out" any other)... but IMHO we should not even bother by the composition drama at this stage to test BR limit .... In any case it would not be hardesr/worst that currently when I can enter with my cerberus in your nicely prepared assault fleet.

First come first served (with 2 minutes for players with points).... PB tooltip indicates number o ships and  remaining free BR, thats all really needed.

Even maintaining current class limits to add variability  (personally later would only maintain shallow deep and put a diffenet BR limit to each port to force different "best" combinations, as you point on your own post)

 

[The Spud]

1 minute ago, Eishen said:

Interesting system... but IMHO we should not even bother by the composition drama at this stage to test BR limit .... In any case it would not be hardesr/worst that currently when I can enter with my cerberus in your nicely prepared assault fleet.

First come first served (with 2 minutes for players with points).... PB tooltip indicates number o ships and  remaining free BR, thats all really needed.

Even maintaining current class limits to add variability  (personally later would only maintain shallow deep and put a diffenet BR limit to each port to force different "best" combinations)

 

 

Well the current PB system is based on armour and firepower. So as BR is an indication of firepower/armour. It should in theory always be balanced if the BR is equal. Now I know even if BR is the same if the number of ships is different, bigger numbers will usualy win.

Now with new Land in Port Battles and the new objectives, you'll probably want to compose your fleet differently. You'll probably need some faster ships for this objective, mortar brigs and some frigs as guard for the other, you'll want some SoL's for firepower. The tactic of just pouring in your big hitters till the BR runs out will probably not be a viable tactic IMHO.

Sp it might be a good thing to have a pre battle moment to see what made it to the PB, and kinda compose a fleet to suit the best tactic, and not have just a bunch of random dudes spawn in with totaly random ships. Cause I think we kinda forgot, with the log out "mechanic" that assault fleets don't always make it into the PB with the numbers or players they want to.

And lastly if there will be a class limit, this will probably be the best way to do it. I just would like to see many different ships in a port battle, instead of just having either 1st rates, agga's or mercury's in any of the three PB types.

[Lord Vicious]

6 hours ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

Vicious when the hell did you start to become a reasonable person? I like the idea - I miss the good old tiems before armor values when the meta wasn't that important and Essex and Trinc and even Frigates would regularly join 4th rate PBs - diversion was fun. Your suggestion would also not ruin the game for those that love SOLs - they are still a fully viable thing outside of the port battle but inside the number would probably be reasonably limited.

 

Always where you not see the tester area , ppl cant divide the "villain" pirate Lord from the person behind the monitor, not my fault

[Bach]

Determining anything in an RvR game by BR is just going to destroy logical naval strategy.

BR factor is the thing of arena contests and not wars. It simply makes the contestants "think" in different terms. 

 

If if two gladiators are to meet in the arena care is only given to matching the contest for a very small number of participants to have a roll in it. Most simply end up observers.  So if gladiator A is the smaller contestant and he chooses he will elect lighter armor to neutralize the bigger gladiators advantage.  If the bigger gladiator gets to chose he will choose hvy armor to exaggerate his advantage. If both gladiators are equal, forced by BR, then inevitably the will choose the exact same gear no matter how many armor and weapons may be offered.

 

in a war admirals, generals and captains goals are to devise strategies and tactics that exaggerate or neutralize advantages of terrain, numbers and technology.  If a port has superior shore batteries then a land raid of some type to neutralize them before the invasion is in order.  If the terrain of the port makes it invulnerable then a Seige is set up to weaken the defenders.  If the enemy has heavier ships then you want to engage them near the shallows.  Anyway, you get the idea. War strategies center on the desire for battles to have more VARIABLES. Not absolutes like BR.

If BR was an enforced factor of real life wars the Russians and Brits would all be speaking German now.  The USA speaking Japanese. Ghengis Khan's mongol horde wouldn't have been all that dangerous. BR factor has to be THE dumbest idea ever brought into a war simulation game.  It's an arena concept. It's best left in arenas.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Bach

[Hethwill]

If we move War Supplies out of Hostility and make them War Supplies into proper Logistics for BR allowance, in both attack and defense fleets then BR starts making sense and Traders and Crafters continue to support the fight by establishing supply chains.

Yes, asymmetrical war.

[JollyRoger1516]

2 hours ago, Lord Vicious said:

 

Always where you not see the tester area , ppl cant divide the "villain" pirate Lord from the person behind the monitor, not my fault

fair enough