1st PvP Tournament Feedback Thread [Heavily Moderated]

[Lord Vicious]

Except that "armor" in this game is an abstraction and there are other things to consider. The lack of side armor does not mean that the ship has no sides. I'm not, technically, in opposition to what you are saying. I'm just suggesting that there are multiple historical factors to be considered and ways of balancing a ship to make it unique. Should those factors be applied to the Essex? The ship probably needs to be tweaked but it does not need to match the sink rate of a trinc.

 

I must admit I have yet to watch the two fights that we have been discussing. I'm in the airport and the internet is poor for streaming so I don't. I lack the patience. I will watch it in the next day or two. That being said, in the tourny rules it states that you can't run and in at least one fight I watched Hethwell order a team back into the fight because they retreated for two long. If that happened in this fight then the same thing should have happened.

 

This is all good stuff. So far, I think the tourny is coming off fantastically but here we are finding ways to improve it. Thats good isn't it? If I have a disagreement with you in anything it is simply that the Essex is an unfair ship in the tourny because everyone has the choice to use it or not. The balancing of it should be in the testing thread as opposed to this one, don't you think?

 

First of all we need to think about balancement , and you are talking about something you clearly not watched or tested : one thing is a ship peculiarity wich is fine like  that  essex as ship  is better like +10%  at water bailing then other ships  becouse different hull shape, less weight so better sail ability/angle speed whatever reason.

 

 And another is  the ability for an essex or frig with this particular setup to stay afloat with hundreds of balls holes, no back armor no front armor no one side and maybe 20% on 1 side with only 10% of crew (becouse all he need is 31 for sourvival)  and  be able to stay afloat and in fight indefinitively. Unless you cause leaks or grape down his crew to under 31.    Thats is ridiculous since nullify all skil of a team to destroy for first the enemy hp pool, for then sink  in 5 mins if they not have the same exact ship and setup.

   

Be 10% better at bail out water is ok

Be 1000% better is not.   

 

Becouse i need not only to kill the enemy on pretty much all sides hp, but also grape him down, while all he need is to kill me 1 side left or right, so he work only my 5800hp (trinco hp of 1 side) while i need to work on his 5k+5k+3k+2k,    thats the magnitude of the difference.  

 

 

the essex henry  in slrn vs sorry fight manage to stay afloat with no back no 1 side 10% on 1 side and 10% in front armor for about 22 minutes.  While my trinco with full back front and 1 side at 90%? could not bail out water from my only empty side for more then 5-6min.  That means that  sorry manage to destroy a ship 22 mins before the other team a ship that was supposed to be in the davy jones locker 15 mins (normal sinking time as other ships is 5-7 min in that conditions) before we lost our first one.  Thats  how unbalance is the water bail out setup with essex-frigs   pumpperk+goldpump etc

[Chustler]

no and that show how low is your knowledge, players in this tournament can run try avoiding fight becouse they scored a kill and wanna make time go over and keep that kill not giving other team opportunity to fight. thats the issue, in fact rus was tryng to stay afloat becouse they scored a bigger br kill then tda even if their ships where almost going to sink, but time went over. and RUS won

RUS did not get the win on that fight, TDA did. I would be interested to know if the Essex is performing as intended or not.

[Aphilas]

Issue is not really Essex. It's just more glaring of an issue on this particular ship. Doesn't take rocket science to build ship with planking+pump mod+pump officer and then test it in duel. Majority of the ships can stay afloat for 20+ minutes with one side completely missing. Such behaviour has been known since first couple days after the patch that implemented new officer perks tipping planking+extra pump from being kinda meh to planking+extra pump+officer perk being completely imba.

 

Kinda interesting how pretty much everyone kept it to themselves to gain advantage though, until it went public and potentially ruining the overall awesome tournament.

[Lord Vicious]

RUS did not get the win on that fight, TDA did. I would be interested to know if the Essex is performing as intended or not.

 

 

I did more test and bellepoule perform as well as essex at 90%   

 

So bellepoule essex frig surprise compared to trinco-conny-cerberus bail out water like crazy

 

Best is essex followed by bellepoule with a minor difference of 5-10%  then frig-surprise  slighlty worst by 15/20% (that not means  that they sink but that sometimes they have to use more crew or get water cause heeling and turning )   worst in performance cerberus-trinco-conny they go down like a rock even with only 1 side only. and stand still

 

for answer Aphilas the combo was know, if you lose 1 side, but not to the magnitude of  a ship almost with no hp at all standing for 20 mins.

 

long story short none of the frigs beside cerb trinco conny is supposed to be that good at bailing water

[Kair]

Unfortunately I don't see how that is a tournament problem ? It seems to me this is ship balancing.

 

 

 

(And on a personal point of view, I actually like ships to be different and each have forces and weaknesses)

[Lord Vicious]

Unfortunately I don't see how that is a tournament problem ? It seems to me this is ship balancing.

 

 

 

(And on a personal point of view, I actually like ships to be different and each have forces and weaknesses)

 

its not but that +low timer+ppl running invalidated many fights where enemy  lost their hp 20 mins before the other team, while they got 20 mins for recover their inferior focusing and manouvering so not was winning the better team but the better op setup    

[Kair]

its not but that +low timer+ppl running invalidated many fights where enemy  lost their hp 20 mins before the other team, while they got 20 mins for recover their inferior focusing and manouvering so not was winning the better team but the better op setup    

 

We do understand this could have caused unexpected situations indeed. However, we did not see an imbalanced number of Essex wins vs Trinco wins - In fact, a lot a Essex teams did lose to Trincs - which would tend to prove people did not benefit that much out of this ships "condition".

[PIerrick de Badas]

TY for RDNN who fight against us and win the batle on monday. We come in unprepared and suffer for that but get fun and knowledge.See you on sea captains

[Snoggy]

I wasn't terribly impressed. It wasn't a PvP fight, it was just a.... I dunno what you call it, PvP tournament it was not.

[SteelSandwich]

On the bright side guys, this tournament is bringing some interesting data forward which the dev can and will utilize for balancing.

[Lord Vicious]

We do understand this could have caused unexpected situations indeed. However, we did not see an imbalanced number of Essex wins vs Trinco wins - In fact, a lot a Essex teams did lose to Trincs - which would tend to prove people did not benefit that much out of this ships "condition".

 

I cant talk here what i  have talk with devs (and the tests i gave them)  but they clearly not agree with you since they gonna check frigs bail out water performance after tournament.    Tbh clear fights where sorry won  in the first 20 min, in term of hp damage, manouvering focus where fucked up by timer (and ppl running for) and bail out performance of unsinkable ship.  same for TDA they ruled the match vs RUS and risked to lose it on last 30 sec. 

 

So many match where giving results that not reflected the combat, where if there was more time or rule that you fight to death the results where reflectin the combat and its evolution at 100%.

 

With new rule for example where timer goes up to the 30 min Sorry would have won all matches killing 8-9 ships going almost full point in term of match won, and ship killed

[Markcufc]

I cant talk here what i  have talk with devs (and the tests i gave them)  but they clearly not agree with you since they gonna check frigs bail out water performance after tournament.    Tbh clear fights where sorry won  in the first 20 min, in term of hp damage, manouvering focus where fucked up by timer (and ppl running for) and bail out performance of unsinkable ship.  same for TDA they ruled the match vs RUS and risked to lose it on last 30 sec. 

 

So many match where giving results that not reflected the combat, where if there was more time or rule that you fight to death the results where reflectin the combat status at 100%.

 

Yep same happened to us a couple of times. I was overall actually disappointed with the level in judging.

[SteelSandwich]

Thing is, just like with football, one team can be better yet still lose on goals (kill in NA).

 

It's impossible to objectively judge a match when kills aren't the main criteria.

Regarding ship imbalances -> those can be fixed yet are just part of the existing line-up we have atm. You know how it works so adjust and profit from it whilst you can.

 

As i said before, it''s the first itteration so we learn and progress.

[PIerrick de Badas]

Congrats for océan for yesterday, they dismated us very fast!

Gg

[Jeheil]

Perhaps in the future, take a leaf from the World Cup (not the bribery and corruption part) and have 'regional' TZ qualifiers so that those of us not on UTC prime time can participate more readily.

[Hethwill]

Perhaps in the future, take a leaf from the World Cup (not the bribery and corruption part) and have 'regional' TZ qualifiers so that those of us not on UTC prime time can participate more readily.

 

Totally.

[Pelennor]

Hello everyone,

Following our defeat in final stage, UGLY is out of the tournament: that means it's time to draw up a review !

First, I would like to thanks the organization for permitting such an event, I know their implication is considerable. The idea of a tournament proposed and leaded by the community is a sign of good health in this early access. I also would like to thanks all the teams we have played with: it has been a real pleasure and a challenge, with some happy moments and some sad ones, but always in the excitement of battle and mutual respect with all contestants.

Otherwise, it is very pleasant to follow the games on youtube/twitch, thanks again to make this effort, it is still a delight to watch such wonderful games and I look forward to the incoming battles.

My general feeling about the tourney is excellent, I have fulfill my envy of great fights versus skilled players, and I definitely want more ! Nevertheless, I still have a few remarks about what happened during my matches and the ones I have observed.


Concerning tournament organization:

I have already said it, but I maintain that such a small tournament should have been played in a shorter amount of time. I will not develop my arguments, but be sure I have many. Personally, I can't see IRL (we all have) and GMT (being GMT+11 myself) as an excuse for a 3 weeks group stage of 3 matches.

Secondly, some rules were unclear (is kitting ok or not and to what point?), some situations not covered by rules (capturing and transfering crew to ship, wich BR is taken to account ?). But it's not a major issue, I am particularly confident the rules will be improved for next event since a lot of particular situations have been met now.

Last, I also consider short matches have particularly favored carronades and brawls game-play during group stage. I wish next event include the complete 1h30 timer since the beginning of the tournament.
 

 

To the developers:

This tournament was obviously a very interesting way of collecting data in multiples aspects.

I will not talk about unsinkable ship issue. I agree the combo pump/planking/inventor should be nerfed, but it has been discussed above.

The main point I wish to focus is the obvious advantage of caronnade over long guns. Forgive my arrogance, but I must noteUGLY is the only team who played long guns pretty effectively until now, and we were the lasts (stupid enough ?) to persist this way. However, in 3 matches, we have sunk NO boat, and were not even close to sink one. No doubt we, as players, have a part of responsibility for that inefficiency, but I strongly recommend an up for penetration of long guns. More than many words, I have put below 3 screenshots to illustrate situations where I get no penetration at all at close rang. Some of you may found that situation normal, I don't. I am conscious it's a personal point of view about balance between guns but if long guns don't penetrate hulls and are doing far less dpm than carronades, what are they made for ? Only sails ? That is insufficient.

9pd vs belle poule at point blank
9pd dbl charge vs surprise
9pd vs cerberus
http://imgur.com/a/q0qxL

An other point I will raise concerns the highly criticized determined defender officer perk. It wasn't obvious from outside, but DD was a main factor of our last defeat in final stage match, the whole opponent team were playing with. I will still be opposed on that kind of arbitrary perk who works because "yeah, it's magic, you can't board me". No arm meant against the players who used it, they simply use a tool granted by the devs.

Otherwise, I suggest to remove gold/xp on tournament matches, and add the "ship cannot be lost" terms. Nobody cares earning xp/gold in a tournament, and it would be nice and appropriate not to pay the price of loosing multiple ships/officers during a tournament.

A last remark: I m not sure of what I am saying, but having fought until timer end with our most recent match: I have see no clue of the circle of the death. To me, the circle wasn't reducing at the end, but I may be wrong.


I don't want to finish my post on those critics... I already consider this tournament as a success, and it still has much to go. I wish good luck for all the contestants remaining, and have fun for everyone !

[OlavDeng2]

Regarding time spent on tournament, I whole heartedly agree, this has been going on for too long and i think i was way too generous with the first stage regarding overall time(3 weeks was way too much...)

 

regarding in battle time: yes, I fully agree now, i was first in favor of 45 min but after finally settling down(was busy with a move) and some thinking I now think 1 hour 30min is the best(also hence the change in the later stages to this)

 

Thank you very much for the feedback Pelennor! Hopefully this can all serve as a basis for the next tournament to run smoother and with better(and clearer rules)

[Twig]

Is it finaly over?

Edited September 29, 2016 by Twig

[OlavDeng2]

Is it finaly over?

the tournament is still in prgres

[Twig]

the tournament is still in prgres

The tournament is running to long. For the future, if it comes another time, please set the time or at least how long the teams have to fight themselfes to a specificated period of time. This just sucks!

Edited September 29, 2016 by Twig

[OlavDeng2]

The tournament is running to long. For the future, if it comes another time, please set the time or at least how long the teams have to fight themselfes to a specificated period of time. This just sucks!

Thats what we are doing, stage 1 ended up a bit long. But one thing to remember is that not everyone is the same time zone which limits the times ones can play based on real life stuff, as a result we need to give some time for teams to be able to arrange matches.

[Twig]

As far as I know, we have to wait until the tournament is over to get the new patch. So the masses have to wait for a small amount of players until they finished this. I cant approve this kind of developement.

[Twig]

Thats what we are doing, stage 1 ended up a bit long. But one thing to remember is that not everyone is the same time zone which limits the times ones can play based on real life stuff, as a result we need to give some time for teams to be able to arrange matches.

But this should be known earlier. Thus make the tournament in a time where you dont have to delay important upcoming patches and not like it went here!

 

I dont belive that a lot of players are watching the tournament cause they just want to play the game. The announcement of the port wipe already lead to a lot of nations putting down their weapons and just expecting the wipe. If you keep on delaying that, you will loose a lot of players for sure and keep on to offend the "normal" player.   

 

That just cant be just for a tournament! So yeah I have to say that I totaly dislike this idea in the end cause it feels like another not enough thoughtful decision.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Twig

[Twig]

So my feedback is here: If they want to make a tournament they can, but it shouldn't interupt the "normal" gaming operations (like it does now!).

Edited September 29, 2016 by Twig