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USS Constitution is Still a Commissioned US Navy Ship, and Here's Some Documentation Indicating It


RMS Gigantic

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The HMS Victory may be the oldest commissioned warship in the world, she's stuck on dry land. Until she reaches drydock later this month and again once she leaves drydock in 2018, Constitution is and will be the oldest commissioned warship afloat in the world!

 

What's interesting about this is that within the US Navy's official register(s) of currently active ships, Constitution shows up and ends up creating some very unusual entries, like this one: http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/details/oldiron.htm

 

Some examples of information that seem pretty funny when compared to the other ships in the register:

 

Delivery Date: 10/01/1797

Age (since delivery): 216.9 years

Hull Material: Wood

Propulsion Type: Sails

 

 

And a piece of information that I think is pretty funny when you realize we're talking about the USS Constitution:

 

Fleet: Atlantic

 

So I suppose if they ever ordered a complete mobilization of the entire Atlantic fleet, that would require Old Ironsides to leap into action, too, technically.

 

 

 

 

I simply find it interesting to see the US Navy describe such a historic ship in purely bureaucratic terms. Based on this document, if it weren't for the highly unusual dates associated with the ship and the unusual materials and propulsion method compared to other currently commissioned Navy vessels, you wouldn't even think twice about this ship!

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  • 4 months later...

As I understand it, the Constitution is the oldest commissioned ship that can sail under her own power. The Constitution is also one of the oldest active stations as well (I believe) as it is used as a sort of special class training for exemplary cadets from Annapolis (Naval Academy) I think only like the top 10% of the class can attempt to serve aboard her.

 

The idea is that, in all technicality, the ship could be mobilized and stationed (it never will be, but still). Think of it as a decorative sword. Yes it could do the same things as a sword made for combat, but (nowadays) it is purely for decoration and training.

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Highly decorative, yes. If Constitution put to sea right now, she would probably run aground fifty times just trying to get out of the harbor, then founder in a day or two.

 

Haters gonna hate.  :lol:

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Highly decorative, yes. If Constitution put to sea right now, she would probably run aground fifty times just trying to get out of the harbor, then founder in a day or two.

I think she would sail quite well. These ships are kept in good condition, and if they took it out, i think that they would install a gps to avoid grounding her. 

 

I also found proof of this while looking at the new Zumwalt-Class destroyer. Imagine mobilizing old Ironsides!

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I think she would sail quite well. These ships are kept in good condition, and if they took it out, i think that they would install a gps to avoid grounding her. 

 

I also found proof of this while looking at the new Zumwalt-Class destroyer. Imagine mobilizing old Ironsides!

I don't think you guys need to be realistic here...

 

You just can't keep a wooden ship 'in good condition' over hundreds of years. You have to replace pretty much every single piece of timber in the ship, every generation or so. They can keep her afloat and stable, but the first bit of rough weather would open all her seams like a flower. She still has 10-15% original timbers, and wooden vessels are always and invariably rotting. It's just a question of speed and severity. It was wonderfully gutsy to tow her out to Marblehead, and let her show a bit of her old self (4 knots under topsails along in 12 knots of wind is pretty damn good). But let's not get carried away.

 

And GPS is neither here nor there. She doesn't have any sails, ffs. When the chips are down, you need more than one set of topsails.

 

And of course then there's the crew, or lack thereof. I may be wrong, but I don't believe the US Navy actually has an sail training vessels anymore. I doubt the personnel have been trained to do anything more than loose and furl sail. Getting a large square rigged vessel out a place like Boston Harbor, with its tides, shoals, islands, straits and water traffic, is a consummate act of seamanship. In the age of the diesel engine, it is a vanished art, reliant on skills and experience that essentially no longer exist. So unless they crewed her with Coast Guard cadets from the Eagle, she would probably just fetch up on a ledge somewhere.

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I don't think you guys need to be realistic here...

 

You just can't keep a wooden ship 'in good condition' over hundreds of years. You have to replace pretty much every single piece of timber in the ship, every generation or so. They can keep her afloat and stable, but the first bit of rough weather would open all her seams like a flower. She still has 10-15% original timbers, and wooden vessels are always and invariably rotting. It's just a question of speed and severity. It was wonderfully gutsy to tow her out to Marblehead, and let her show a bit of her old self (4 knots under topsails along in 12 knots of wind is pretty damn good). But let's not get carried away.

 

And GPS is neither here nor there. She doesn't have any sails, ffs. When the chips are down, you need more than one set of topsails.

 

And of course then there's the crew, or lack thereof. I may be wrong, but I don't believe the US Navy actually has an sail training vessels anymore. I doubt the personnel have been trained to do anything more than loose and furl sail. Getting a large square rigged vessel out a place like Boston Harbor, with its tides, shoals, islands, straits and water traffic, is a consummate act of seamanship. In the age of the diesel engine, it is a vanished art, reliant on skills and experience that essentially no longer exist. So unless they crewed her with Coast Guard cadets from the Eagle, she would probably just fetch up on a ledge somewhere.

 

I don't know, but for some reason, I'm more inclined to believe the US Navy than you that she is seaworthy...

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Does the Navy describe her as 'seaworthy?' :huh:

 

You realize she hasn't done anything except sail in a straight line since the 1930s? And since 1992-ish she just gets pushed around Boston harbor by tugboats with her topsails set.

 

I'm trying to find a video of her sailing in the harbor without a tug along side, in which her sails are actually full and drawing, not sagged against the tops in a flat calm.

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Does the Navy describe her as 'seaworthy?' :huh:

 

You realize she hasn't done anything except sail in a straight line since the 1930s? And since 1992-ish she just gets pushed around Boston harbor by tugboats with her topsails set.

 

I'm trying to find a video of her sailing without a tug along side, in which her sails are actually full and drawing, not sagged against the tops in a flat calm.

 

You do that, bro.  You do that. ;)

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So does the United States Navy describe USS Constitution as seaworthy, or are you just inserting your foot ever farther into your mouth?

 

Sorry, man, I'm not wasting my time on this.  You keep on hatin'.  I just don't see the point.  What are you trying to prove and to whom?  You're all over this thread just spewing hate on everything and for what reason?  This thread is simply that the USS Constitution is still a commission ship, and it is....

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Sorry, man, I'm not wasting my time on this.  You keep on hatin'.  I just don't see the point.  What are you trying to prove and to whom?  You're all over this thread just spewing hate on everything and for what reason?  This thread is simply that the USS Constitution is still a commission ship, and it is....

'Hate.' Right... :rolleyes:

 

I responded to one specific post in the thread. How dare I! Evil facts hurting feelings!

 

I visit the ship every time I go to Boston, for the record.

 

 

You forget the USCG Eagle, or the multitude of tall ships that almost every major naval power in the world has as a training vessel.

I mention Eagle in the post you quoted.

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Does the Navy describe her as 'seaworthy?' :huh:

 

You realize she hasn't done anything except sail in a straight line since the 1930s? And since 1992-ish she just gets pushed around Boston harbor by tugboats with her topsails set.

 

I'm trying to find a video of her sailing in the harbor without a tug along side, in which her sails are actually full and drawing, not sagged against the tops in a flat calm.

Come on, I like her as much as the next guy but be honest with yourselves, Maturin's right.  She's a barge with masts for all intents and purposes at this point.  She hasn't sailed under her own power in decades.

 

The title in this video tells you why the navy continues to call her sea worthy.

 

 

Bragging rights over HMS Victory which is in truth the oldest commissioned warship in the world by several decades.  No tugboats means no more claiming the title with the dubious disclaimer.

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Come on, I like her as much as the next guy but be honest with yourselves, Maturin's right.  She's a barge with masts for all intents and purposes at this point.  She hasn't sailed under her own power in decades.

 

The title in this video tells you why the navy continues to call her sea worthy.

 

Bragging rights over HMS Victory which is in truth the oldest commissioned warship in the world by several decades.  No tugboats means no more claiming the title with the dubious disclaimer.

 

 

My point is....who cares?  Why are we really arguing about this?  It doesn't matter.

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What, the tugboats?  Well it sort of does if they insist on claiming it is still sailing.  It may not matter to you, but the old girl has seen better days.  Idolizing things and people sets one up for disappointment. 

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People who love USS Constitution (like me) will think it is one of the best ships in the world. There is no need to fight or argue heavily about it. For some it can take on Bismarck and win.. i am fine with that. That ship is a legend. Like Victory or Santisima or Surprise

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What, the tugboats?  Well it sort of does if they insist on claiming it is still sailing.  It may not matter to you, but the old girl has seen better days.  Idolizing things and people sets one up for disappointment. 

 

Aye American Pride gets a little embarassing when you have examples like this. Though I would like to see the USS Texas running on its own power. :P

 

Still nice to have a piece of history in great condition. Some other US ships are just rusting away.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Does the Navy describe her as 'seaworthy?' :huh:

 

You realize she hasn't done anything except sail in a straight line since the 1930s? And since 1992-ish she just gets pushed around Boston harbor by tugboats with her topsails set.

 

I'm trying to find a video of her sailing in the harbor without a tug along side, in which her sails are actually full and drawing, not sagged against the tops in a flat calm.

 

I think you are being too negative about this. :( Yes okay she is symbolic and of course she is escorted by tugboats whether for her annual turn around or for a "sail". However it is not because she can't sail or as you've indicated would founder in the bay, it is because she is an expensive national treasure maintained by the Navy budget (tax payers), so the Navy won't take any risks with her at all. I got that directly from one of her Captains.

 

She was restored to her 1812 configuration for her bicentennial sail in 1997. I was there in Massachusetts Bay for the event. Sure she was tugged into position, but then the tow lines were cast loose and she sailed at almost 5 knts under her own power. The breeze was very light, so you're not seeing fully drawing tops'ls. The weather restrictions also meant that she won't sail in less than 5 knts or more than 15knts of wind. She did have better wind for the practice sail before she put into Marblehead the night before. She recorded 7knts in 10-12 knts of wind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Constitution_1997.jpg

To my sailor's eye - jibs and spanker are drawing as are the tops'ls. Not a tugboat in sight in fact a stand off circle was cleared around her for the sail.

She sailed again in 2012 for the anniversary of her battle with the Guierrier. Here is a Navy article about the sail:

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=69100

Granted 3 knts is not fast, but let me ask you this: Would you turn down the opportunity to sail on her because it was only "in a straight line"?

Here is an article by her Commander in 1997 which should answer the debate in this thread and your questions about her crew training, etc.

http://www.ussconstitutionmuseum.org/discover-constitutions-history/topics-in-constitutions-history/constitution-sails/

 

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I think you are being too negative about this. :( Yes okay she is symbolic and of course she is escorted by tugboats whether for her annual turn around or for a "sail". However it is not because she can't sail or as you've indicated would founder in the bay, it is because she is an expensive national treasure maintained by the Navy budget (tax payers), so the Navy won't take any risks with her at all. I got that directly from one of her Captains.

I wasn't being negative for the sake of putting the ship down, I was responding to wild-eyed overrought enthusiasm that in my view cheapens the very real accomplishment of keeping the ship afloat and mobile.

I never said she would founder in the bay, just that no one would ever dream of trying to really maneuver her in it, and that the expertise to do so probably does not exist at the moment. That's why she doesn't really sail much in harbor, as it's such a constricted space. Unlike at Marblehead, she just drifted along with limp sails and attendant tugs.

And not to dump more cold water on you all, but getting her to seven knots in a straight line with perfect weather is not the accomplishment. The accomplishment is that she could be there at all with a reasonable standard of safety. And I could heap all manner of praise for that, never you doubt.

But to be frank, a far less sound vessel, even in crippled or sinking condition could have done the same. Getting a vessel to go isn't hard. Getting them to maneuver in a controlled fashion is the trick, which is why I say that Connie is mobile, but wrinkle my face when I hear that she will 'put to sea.'

Thank you for the link to that officer's account. He makes my case for me, in fact:

Constitution sail again? Yes at least in winds of under ten knots, in seas of a foot or less, with a half dozen sails or so, for a brief period close to home. Should it be done? Not unless it relates directly and clearly to her continued well being. Diagonal riders notwithstanding, she is still a ship with a two hundred year old keel, two hundred year old floor timbers, and two hundred year old first futtocks. With the return of the riders, she is like one’s great great grandmother who has undergone hip replacement surgery. The operation has given her relief from pain and the ability to move about more easily; it did not ready her for roller blades. As the sole member of the U. S. Navy to have been a part of the organization since before the department existed, it behooves us to do all we can respect and to preserve her, and to resist any temptations to require her to perform merely for the thrill of it. That’s abusive.

I believe I made the same analogy about an old grannie with a bad hip in an earlier thread.

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Announcement! I just was on the Constitution (and absolutely loving it) and the Navy is putting it in drydock for a full refit for 3 years. I asked about the condition of her before and after the refit, and almost all of the sailors i asked said she would be completely seaworthy after the refit.

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