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Hotfix 9.95 - Social perk and other important changes

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 English need to do nothing. Spanish too. Others need 4 hours of sailing with smuggler? Capturing trader snow with 48 iberian meet in? Multiple ways yes, but fair ways? totally not.

For the sailing times it will provide more things to do for privateers and pirates that like to hunt traders, won't be 4 Hours anyways

 

 As for the goods themselves ... EU traders anyone ?? Those should be removed for National goods if we follow any logic, too early for this right now but yeah right now it will only increase the price of some ships and need people to take some little risks to bring that stuff out a regional capital to a free town then use deliveries system or just sail, not like Iberian meat or tea weights a lot anyways ...

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For the sailing times it will provide more things to do for privateers and pirates, won't be 4 Hours anyways

 

 As for the goods themselves ... EU traders anyone ?? Those should be removed for National goods if we follow any logic, too early for this right now but yeah right now it will only increase the price of some ships and need peopel to same some little risks to bring that stuff out a regional capital to a free town then use deliveries system ...

 

gradually... gradually.. then suddenly.

 

changes must be soft initially. Current change will increase traffic on the OW, requiring more effort to make ships of the line. New regional map will allow to create some regions which will witness a lot of fighting for. (Like Virginia for live oak)

 

What should be changed though is this: sweden, denmark, and holland should have their useless resources replaced by indian tea, wine and iberian meat temporarily. 

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Restrict ship for Nation is a good idea But for now it's useless to put this in you only stuck 80% of player that have a victory or at santi in all other nation look french side for exemple with your new update they don't have anymore any 1 rate to use seem for dutch or Danish or Pirates i think you should fait for put this in because there is honestly not enough ship from all nation ...

Pirates should not be able to make SOL any way, now capture them on the other hand.....

Edited by Sir Texas SIr
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gradually... gradually.. then suddenly.

 

changes must be soft initially. Current change will increase traffic on the OW, requiring more effort to make ships of the line. New regional map will allow to create some regions which will witness a lot of fighting for. (Like Virginia for live oak)

 

What should be changed though is this: sweden, denmark, and holland should have their useless resources replaced by indian tea, wine and iberian meat temporarily. 

 

True, or allow the BP recipes to use either tea for Brits or Swedish iron or Danish beer and Batavian Spices for other Nations , not sure how it is possible to add this in game code, maybe duplicated BP's based on the owner Nationality .

 

Still some will be able to craft all if you allow productions of everything for those having no National ships, when others will be limited to one single resource in them homelands, unless you wanted to say one single resource replaced by Nation one arbitrary, this will do, some may complain they wanted another resource tho :P 

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What should be changed though is this: sweden, denmark, and holland should have their useless resources replaced by indian tea, wine and iberian meat temporarily.

 

 

Then if Holland get posibility to do 1 rate they will attaquing french regional capital because they can't be defended long because not posibility for french to make 1 rate because of your update that's nice idea ;)

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I like the capital ship national resource needs.

 

But my suggestion to replace social perk would be:

I prefer a time bubble. That can be sailed in and out of at will with a measurable distance delay when entering the bubble according to the time taken to sail to that time bubble.

i.e. if you sailed for 10 minutes to get to the battle. You start 10 minutes away from where the combatants "STARTED" the battle. Simple and effective.

This also kind of prevents most people feeling the need to wait outside, if they can dive right in.

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you have not provided any specifics. lets not use Le Ocean then. Lets use victory vs santisima.

They are the same class - first rate ship of the line. What are the specific difference you are talking about. In numbers. 

You're the guys who insisted on making Santissima fast.  :ph34r:

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I am disappointed with the social perk being disabled. I enjoyed being able to join battles. I understand people don't want to be ganked, but to not be able to support your friends in a fight when they have been ganked is equally irritating.

 

Also I'm against the 1st rate changes UNTIL every nation has a 1st rate.

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I am disappointed with the social perk being disabled. I enjoyed being able to join battles. I understand people don't want to be ganked, but to not be able to support your friends in a fight when they have been ganked is equally irritating.

 

Also I'm against the 1st rate changes UNTIL every nation has a 1st rate.

Agree with Teutonic. I think that the aforementioned replacement of national resources for nations without national first rates should have been done along with these changes. Since it's coming (and the first rates for them), and since we'll have a port reset soon, I think people are overreacting to these changes. Social perk did need some reworking, let's wait and see what they come up with. I do believe that being unable to help friends can ruin gaming experience for a lot of players, so we do need something in place of this perk. 

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Regional Capitals produce National goods, or capping AI traders that drop some from times to times... Let's empty all Brits shops from Indian tea quickly , and same for the Iberian meat that is produced only in 4 cities if i make no errors.

 

 

Not really happy about Social perk, this was a good thing added to prevent eternal camping and easy targets picking in front of the Captials made by groups seeking only for easy pvp mode engaging ships only when outnumbering them and sure of a win, or like seen recently in the Spanish or Jamaican waters a very nice help to defend attacked cities in heavy populated waters ... Timer had to be decreased surely but now you simply remove it ...  yeah ...

 

Disappointing to see that you listened those who come attack in heavy populated waters seeking for easy pvp and targets and cry about it when they got the opposition they should encounter when coming in such heavy populated waters ... Let's bring back ganking 3mn away from a capital for all players that know nothing more than "fighting" at 5vs1 and then hiding for 2 hours in the lame end screen result ... all this while others cannot help if they are barely 2mn away from there and all this in front of a capital ... sick game stuff ...

Kanay, i thought you were not  against a good pvp fight....why're u so concerned about this Social perk so much, folks? It has already been told that the new system with the BR will prevent any fights like 20vs1 because soon if you'll have a battle with a not equal BR on both sides, the team who has the lowest BR will have an open entry for reinforcements. So you folks, our dear British, will be well protected against the filthy gankers....but also you won't have an opportunity to summon the mighty Zerg and fulfill the battlefield with 25 ships against our 10 ;)

So be happy - no more gang-bang but only PvP.

Edited by el_mariachi
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This change comes too early hence Swedes/Dutch/Danes don't have a 1st rate... But anyway it is not my problem, I am a British player, just saying it is kind not fair, too early for that. Also, please increase the loot from AI Traders ships! When I look on almost empty all LGVs sailing... Tell me how these AI traders are able to survive from trading if they sail with 50 cargo... 

 

+1 this. I think it is a decent idea, but 1000 is too much. It should be introduced when all nations have 1st Rate BPs

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Regional Capitals produce National goods, or capping AI traders that drop some from times to times... Let's empty all Brits shops from Indian tea quickly , and same for the Iberian meat that is produced only in 4 cities if i make no errors.

Not really happy about Social perk, this was a good thing added to prevent eternal camping and easy targets picking in front of the Captials made by groups seeking only for easy pvp mode engaging ships only when outnumbering them and sure of a win, or like seen recently in the Spanish or Jamaican waters a very nice help to defend attacked cities in heavy populated waters ... Timer had to be decreased surely but now you simply remove it ... yeah ...

Disappointing to see that you listened those who come attack in heavy populated waters seeking for easy pvp and targets and cry about it when they got the opposition they should encounter when coming in such heavy populated waters ... Let's bring back ganking 3mn away from a capital for all players that know nothing more than "fighting" at 5vs1 and then hiding for 2 hours in the lame end screen result ... all this while others cannot help if they are barely 2mn away from there and all this in front of a capital ... sick game stuff ...

So you want a magic skill to counter those that go to "heavily populated waters" looking for PvP? Where should they go? Sparsely populated waters?

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Kanay, i thought you were not  against a good pvp fight....why're u so concerned about this Social perk so much, folks? It has already been told that the new system with the BR will prevent any fights like 20vs1 because soon if you'll have a battle with a not equal BR on both sides, the team who has the lowest BR will have an open entry for reinforcements. So you folks, our dear British, will be well protected against the filthy gankers....but also you won't have an opportunity to summon the mighty Zerg and fulfill the battlefield with 25 ships against our 10 ;)

So be happy - no more gang-bang but only PvP.

It's not pvp when 5-7 guys jump on a single player barely away from a heavy populated city, or so close to the city that the forts defense will have the ships in sights and use them guns against them ... 

 

Meanwhile we have barely 2mn to join and give a hand and it's silly, the game should reflect the difficulty to attack close to dense populated waters, especially around capitals, it should not be simple to attack barely 2mn away from a dense populated city than attacking in the middle of the seas or far from any land or at the borders of your Nation, it should not follow the same ROE rules, while social perk wasn't perfect it added this level of difficulty to reflect how it should be when attacking in such waters, now back to square 0 ...

 

You guys don't run from a fight but let's be honest how many come to jump a guy at 5-7vs1 with capital in sights once they are sure none are close enough to join within the 2 minutes ??? It's even more easy with alt accounts spies and some don't even are ashamed to stream this and we hear the spy reporting all potential targets... 

 

Sadly this is the norm and you probably knows it, point is that is should not be easy to attack close to dense populated waters as elsewhere, and social perk was a nice addon for this even if far from perfect.

 

So you want a magic skill to counter those that go to "heavily populated waters" looking for PvP? Where should they go? Sparsely populated waters?

I don't call jumping at 5-7 vs a single ship pvp ... but yeah read above ... New conquest system will  show heavy pvp zones and i bet capitals will still be full of ez "pvp" mode hordes, because they don't want pvp, they want easy supermarket picking targets only and many won't go to areas where they will meet players coming for heavy pvp, that's simply not what they want as kind of pvp  ...

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Now we are on our own, all new players. I hope "return back" means also soon, not soonish. You could just reduce the time of social perk to 5-10 minutes to not make it so ridiculous.

As has been pointed out repeatedly, the additional 3-8 min beyond 2 min combined with the perk being "blind" is what makes the perk problematic as it undermines the "fight what you can see" principle. Ships can easily hide out of view or join from port with timers greater than 2 min. Simply reducing the time neither fixes nor balances the perk. It is broken in principle.

And the only positive anyone can put forward in defense of this perk is this nonsense about it being "easy" to hunt solo players around national capitals because of the 2 min timer, and that this somehow justifies completely altering the dynamic of OW PvP everywhere.

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if you want to reduce numbers of 1st rate, you must reintroduce 1 duration ships patch.

 

actually if i have 1 OP i can fill it with 5 constitution (maybe gray), but they are actually 20 (5 x 4 dur)... and i can buy from port maybe other 5-6 basic connie (20-24 new ones)...

so if i have 8 op i will have 160 connie, with 60-80 new ones in ports...so each connie i craft, gives me 5 connie...with same amount of resources.  too easy building personal fleet of infinite ships...

 

reintroduce 1 dur ships, so 8 op=40 ships only , more resourse consumption, fewer resources for 1st rates...also you can buy only 5-6 new gray ships in ports, so you have to learn how to fight really good in pvp or you will finish your ships before you are able to replace them; losing 1 ships means not only high cost of materials, but also LH you are trying to collect to build 1 1st rate...so delayed 1st rate building....

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Judging by the responses (kneejerk reactions in some cases) not many people look at these changes long term. So let's put the 1st rate changes and elimination of the social perk in context of the upcoming major patches:

 

1st Rates and National Goods

 

Pro: Advantage for certain nations, Less 1st rates, more traders on the sea. Promotes ship diversity. More 1st rates in game soon.

Con: Disadvantage to certain nations w/o national ship or easy access to resources. Disadvantage in Regional PB.

 

Okay so with the incoming PB rework patch will it be necessary to have 25 1st rates in a regional PB? in fact what will a regional PB look like after the patch with land and (hopefully) proper forts? The answer to these questions really has a bearing on how much of a disadvantage not having national resource for 1st rates will be. The answer should be that a diverse fleet lead by a few 1st/2nd rates would be the ideal for most PB. So let's see what they have in mind for the upcoming conquest and PB mechanics before judging the 1st changes.

 

Also please don't balance ships just because well balance - stick to historic ship characteristics!

 

Social Perk

 

Pro/Con - Hashed out multiple times all mostly opinions based on how people play, OW time compression, etc.

 

New ROE mechanics are being developed (see threads on 2 circle tag and pull mechanics). In other words I believe the devs are working on a different way to address this issue, which again is different depending on your pov. 

 

Can't wait for September patch and port reset.

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Sounds great, the other day i had a conversation with Kierrip from EDR. 
He told me how a 1st rate was a rare sight in PotBS, that it took ALOT of effort to build one and so, when you finally managed to build one and sail in one there was alot of "prestige" about it, just like in real life. 
I hope that is where Naval Action is going, building a 1st rate should be something exciting and it should give the nation/clan/player a sense of pride to have one and sail one. Loosing one should "hurt" alot in my opinion. 

 

I love the idea of ships being nation specific. Obviously other nation should be able to, in some ways, make ships that are specific to other nations (Smuggler flag makes this possible?).

 

I love that Social Perk is gone. When we go out hunting we are always looking for a group slightly bigger than ours so that our battle will be a tough one, a challenge. 

But way too often we find a group either same size or slightly bigger than ours, we attack, and 10-20 minutes later the 4v4/4v5 turns into a 4v15/4v25... 
If people want to help their friends then SAIL WITH YOUR FRIENDS. It's not that hard! Yes, sometimes your little group will get ganked but that is life, perhaps you should reconsider what ships you sail when alone/in small group.

 

 

As for differences between the current 1st rates (L'Ocean, Santissima, Victory) i always thought L'Ocean would be more maneuvrable and faster than Santissima but more squishy and less firepower. 
Currently L'Ocean is more Tanky than Santissima, has almost same firepower. Is just as slow as Santissima and is just as bad at maneuvring as Santissima. 
- After talking to some people who know alot more about wooden ships than me, i have been told that L'Ocean should NOT be faster than Santissima, however it should turn much much better than Santi. 

The 36 Pounders are currently useless btw. 1 Second faster reload but 1 damage lower than 42 pounders. Pretty much same penetration.

So i'm not sure why they are ingame other than to please the history nerds? :P (No Offense meant!) 

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so basicly you took away 1st rates from the Danish Swedish and US nation? once those we have are gone, we wont have time for anything else than to sail with smuggler flags......... trying to get to a port that allready are out of stock in said items

 

Now you know why so many pyrates abandoned the game… Its a phenomenon I call "Heavy Handed Guess Work".

"HHGW is a condition where a game developer takes a stab at a change, without considering the consequences." (Pagan Pete et all. Journal of Piratical Sciences and Witchraft, Sept 2016.)

Still, Im glad Social is disabled for a re-work. It was an attempt to stop the rampant Ganking (As are AI fleets) But the trouble is GL is trying to understand a problem without knowing the true cause. "You can't solve Ganking with a gimik. One must eliminate the underlying motivation for Ganking. Only then can you be successful." (Pagan Pete et all. Journal of Piratical Sciences and Witchraft, Sept 2016.) 

Admittedly, GL managed to accidentally eliminate Historical Brand(™) piracy… Now, if we can implement the changes that Dr. Pete recommended, would could bring Historica Brand(™) Pyracy back into the game. Solving the Gankining issue, however, is a much more of a challenge… Except that Dr. Pete already made a recommendation for that.

"If we divide the spoils of a prize up between the ships' crews involved, the reward for grouping up to steal lone ships drops dramatically. Especially if you have to pay out a portion to the crews as well. The bigger the crews involved, the less reward for the captains!" (Pagan Pete & Little Willy. How Are We Going To Get Out Of This Now? Freebooter Books, 2016.)

Still, this un-patch is a step in the right direction! It gives me hope of a bright NA future!

Keep this up  :) 

Hisorical Brand(™) Pyracy is a wholly owned subsidiary of Captains of the Black Flag, Pagan Pete, his subsidiaries (cabin boy) and shareholders (crew)

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Old players you mean arround 300-500 active? Well, not many of them survived... Most got already tired of Battles Closes in front of your face.

Most of the veteran players i know (and i know quite a few) love the 2 minute timer more than anything.  And no, those people do not gank. :) 

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Most of the veteran players i know (and i know quite a few) love the 2 minute timer more than anything.  And no, those people do not gank. :)

 

Tis true!

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Time for allies to be real allies not only in fight but also in trade. I like where this is going. If first rates become more rare we will see more 2nd and 3rds in pbs. With the new port battle mechanics we will also don't see this port battle galore mess we have now with 20 pulled flags in 30 minutes. Nations have to fight about certain regions together with their allies and also support each other in trading and maybe even crafting ships. Other nations and pirates (payed privateers?) have to sabotage that. Nations and allies need to be better organized and perhaps assign specific tasks within its playerbase. What's not to like if this will become the game in the future?

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So if you attack a ship in front of a port, you expect to not see any reinforcements from that port? That is pretty dumb.

 

IRL, yes. I took a LONG time to prep a ship for sail, and ye had to wait for wind and tide.  Also… The horizon is 30 miles on a clear day, less so in bad wether. You could have a battle right out side port and not know it!

It happened...

In the civil war, there were a famous battle that took place on the other side of a small hill, only 2 miles away form a large force!  The large force never new the smaller units were in trouble, as the wind blew the sounds of battle away from them.

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So if you attack a ship in front of a port, you expect to not see any reinforcements from that port? That is pretty dumb.

If they are not in front of port ready to sail, then yes. There was no hiding in ports in the Age of Sail.

However, I fully support national ports having forts in battle instances, and maybe even some Martello towers along coasts between ports.

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