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@Wagram Interestingly, your source gives a precise definition of the French arming cloth with fleur-de-lys (from a law of 1670) : blue, dotted with yellow fleurs de lys and framed with white strips. Some strips also look yellow on some of your (more recent) paintings.

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20 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

@Wagram Interestingly, your source gives a precise definition of the French arming cloth with fleur-de-lys (from a law of 1670) : blue, dotted with yellow fleurs de lys and framed with white strips. Some strips also look yellow on some of your (more recent) paintings.

I noticed. Perhaps, some cloths had yellow edges later but wrong perception on the viewer's part or soiling on the painter's part may be more likely options. I'd give the white strips the benefit of the doubt.

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Here is another definition for the year 1830 (still in France):
Strips of blue cloth with yellow or red borders, sometimes with emblems of the same colour [...]

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30 minutes ago, Surcouf said:

Here is another definition for the year 1830 (still in France):
Strips of blue cloth with yellow or red borders, sometimes with emblems of the same colour [...]

Interesting. A definition written during the return of the monarchy. Also interesting the words 'sometimes with emblems" and 'same colour'.

Do someone know whether or not the French arming cloth might have (sometimes) been dotted with a particular emblem during the Napoleonic period, such as say an eagle or the capital letter N ? What about the revolutionary period between say 1790-1799 ?

Edited by LeBoiteux

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36 minutes ago, Surcouf said:

Here is another definition for the year 1830 (still in France):
Strips of blue cloth with yellow or red borders, sometimes with emblems of the same colour [...]

Interesting. What's your source?

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12 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

Do someone know whether or not the French arming cloth might have (sometimes) been dotted with a particular emblem during the Napoleonic period, such as say an eagle or the capital letter N ? What about the revolutionary period between say 1790-1799 ?

Still looking for positive pictorial or written evidence. "Pavois" (Revolutionary period) are mentioned several times here but, unfortunately, without further description:

https://books.google.ch/books?id=TsNCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=pavois+marine+1830&source=bl&ots=9SCUhN1UUB&sig=ACfU3U1CNFyDB1FQxAKpyQzgKI_3__vs_w&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLvLDDz67hAhWB3OAKHeSmCZwQ6AEwBXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=pavois&f=false

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31 minutes ago, Wagram said:

Interesting. What's your source?

In=  Dictionnaire abrégé de marine par P.M.J. Bonnefoux, capitaine de frégate. Édition de 1834.

According to the research of J. Boudriot (74 gun-ship 1780)
"The arming cloth' is made of blue cloth lined with canvas, on this cloth it is attached and sewn a frame in yellow cloth and fleur-de-lys."

These are big flowers, it gives the dimensions for the 74-gun:
Width of the arming cloth' = 1 134cm
Width of the yellow band = 162cm
Height of the fleur-de-lis = 270cm
Spacing between two flowers = 215cm

Edited by Surcouf
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@Wagram

There might have been quite an huge disparity in the use of the French arming cloth and resistance during the period of the Revolution, with fleur de lys sometimes still in use (?) :

Quote

Le 5 décembre 1790, le ministre Fleurieu ordonna que « tous les bâtiments de la flotte française arbore le pavillon tricolore en mettant dans cette cérémonie l’appareil et la majesté nécessaires, observant qu’on ferait en cela une chose agréable au roi ». Mais la marine, très attachée à ses traditions, ne tint pas compte de ce changement. Le 15 février 1794, Jean Bon Saint-André, envoyé à Brest fit supprimer par la Convention l’usage du pavillon de 1790 au quartier tricolore pour imposer le pavillon national. Pourtant lors de la bataille d’Ouessant le 1e juin 1794, seuls le Redoutable et la Montagne où se trouvaient Jean Bon Saint-André et Villaret-Joyeuse portaient le pavillon réglementaire. Tous les autres navires sans exception portaient encore le pavillon blanc à quartier tricolore qui fût tout de même accepté par les officiers et les équipages au moment où le décret de février venait à nouveau de tout bouleverser.

source : here.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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1 hour ago, LeBoiteux said:

There might have been quite an huge disparity in the use of the French arming cloth and resistance during the period of the Revolution, with fleur de lys sometimes still in use (?) :

source : here.

Unfortunately, the design and colours of Revolutionary/Napoleonic flags (pavillons, guidons, flammes) are of no help when it comes to getting an idea of the design and colours of the respective arming cloths. Arming cloths decorated with fleurs de lys may well have lasted into the Constitution (as was the case with army flags) but it's very unlikely that they survived the abolition of the monarchy (21 September 1792). BTW, the arrangement of the stripes on the 1790 tricolour differed from the 1794 version. In 1790 the hoist side stripe was red and the fly side stripe blue, while in 1794 it was (and still is today) the other way round. 

Edited by Wagram
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I’d like to request a paint scheme for Pandora to reflect this painting I found of her sister-ship Eurydice: https://hazelhurst.co.za/eurydice/

NOTE: I will find a better quality image, which I’ve seen before, but it’s evading my Google Fu right now.

The Eurydice had the most interesting combat record of the Porcupine class ships, including being present at Saumarez’s action off Guernsey on 8 June, 1794 and commanded by Nelson protege William Hoste from November 1804: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Eurydice_(1781)

I would love to have a ‘Eurydice’ paint scheme for Pandora, to honour its veteran sister-ship, like you have (HMS) ‘Concorde’ for L’Hermione for example (it made my day when I saw that BTW).

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

Edited by Commodore Sixty Four

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