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Spain is at War


Senhor Lenhador

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This week-end (27 & 28th of Agust) has been very painful for the Spanish faction.

 

The brit offensive campaign has been performed in a very impressive manner.

All my personal respect to the commander who has planned these operations, as well as to all these players that were available for such a large scale campaign.

 

Also, we can appreciate the clever decision to disregard the Eastern front (Haiti) to powerfully focus onto Western Sapish territories, with allies support. 

 

Great organization gents

A pleasure to fight you !

(otherwise it should be so boring like against the Americans :P)

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All games they have played so far have a difficulty level .... In this game, the difficulty level ranging from easy level (Britanicos), where everything is very well organized, have money and players to get bored and many other advantages ..... Even the difficult level (Spanish), where spreads chaos and disorganization, there is almost no players and all that changed in the game goes against you ......... .
 
You have done well to choose the maximum level ........... Winning easily is very boring ............. Or do you play other games at child level 6 years? ........... XD
 
Sometimes it is better to lose in a hard struggle to gain from boredom ..... Your choice has been the good............ ;)

 

 

Oh, I'm not complaining. I like it when it is harder and when joining Spain I knew there will be more pvp, more dangers of losing ships, etc.

 

Was just saying that when we (or any other nation for that matter) loses so many ports at once, it becomes almost impossible for new(er) players to play and it leads to a death spiral with population of that nation getting smaller and smaller.

 

For example, I am willing and want to help defend ports and fight and patrol. But due to low rank i don't have that many outposts and ships for port battles and for pvp in every outpost (can't afford them). To get ships I have to either earn gold by trading or craft them (I really enjoy crafting and making my own ships and everything, but that is over now too).

 

When we lose so many ports I can't try to earn gold by trading goods nor get materials nearby my shipyard to craft ship or anything.

 

If I try and get them from further ports (even north-south Cuba) I run a large risk of getting sunk and robbed because we are now cut off in smaller areas (which for a new player without a large money cushion is a huge setback). And with UK being able to mount several fleets to defend several ports at once while Spain can attack lesser number of ports at once, somehow i don't think things will get better soon (until the wipe and reset of ports, but that's not the point).

 

Earning enough gold by doing missions at lower rank is, I think we'll all agree, impractical due to the amount of missions I would have to do and how lengthy each one is.

 

So, basically, I am stuck with my Mercury and a privateer in the North cuba, and a Snow and mortar brig in the south Cuba, empty trading vessels, almost no gold can't trade because there are not enough friendly ports to move resources between and can't craft because no materials.

 

Can't do any open world pvp because my rank is low and can't afford nor craft better ships anymore even if I got a level.

 

That's why I said that hopefully new conquest mechanics will change it, make port taking slow down a bit and will allow low pop nations to actually have a chance of defending and/or taking territory. If only they would add different ship class slots to be filled in port battles for some diversity and versatility. 

 

EDIT: I do love that cat! Soooo cuuuute...

Edited by Todbringer
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Oh, I'm not complaining. I like it when it is harder and when joining Spain I knew there will be more pvp, more dangers of losing ships, etc.

 

Was just saying that when we (or any other nation for that matter) loses so many ports at once, it becomes almost impossible for new(er) players to play and it leads to a death spiral with population of that nation getting smaller and smaller.

 

For example, I am willing and want to help defend ports and fight and patrol. But due to low rank i don't have that many outposts and ships for port battles and for pvp in every outpost (can't afford them). To get ships I have to either earn gold by trading or craft them (I really enjoy crafting and making my own ships and everything, but that is over now too).

 

When we lose so many ports I can't try to earn gold by trading goods nor get materials nearby my shipyard to craft ship or anything.

 

If I try and get them from further ports (even north-south Cuba) I run a large risk of getting sunk and robbed because we are now cut off in smaller areas (which for a new player without a large money cushion is a huge setback). And with UK being able to mount several fleets to defend several ports at once while Spain can attack lesser number of ports at once, somehow i don't think things will get better soon (until the wipe and reset of ports, but that's not the point).

 

Earning enough gold by doing missions at lower rank is, I think we'll all agree, impractical due to the amount of missions I would have to do and how lengthy each one is.

 

So, basically, I am stuck with my Mercury and a privateer in the North cuba, and a Snow and mortar brig in the south Cuba, empty trading vessels, almost no gold can't trade because there are not enough friendly ports to move resources between and can't craft because no materials.

 

Can't do any open world pvp because my rank is low and can't afford nor craft better ships anymore even if I got a level.

 

EDIT: I do love that cat! Soooo cuuuute...

 

I understand you perfectly........ I just sent a pm........ we talk.

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This week-end (27 & 28th of Agust) has been very painful for the Spanish faction.

 

The brit offensive campaign has been performed in a very impressive manner.

All my personal respect to the commander who has planned these operations, as well as to all these players that were available for such a large scale campaign.

 

Also, we can appreciate the clever decision to disregard the Eastern front (Haiti) to powerfully focus onto Western Sapish territories, with allies support. 

 

Great organization gents

A pleasure to fight you !

(otherwise it should be so boring like against the Americans :P

 

+1

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To be fair: this weekends offensive was the answer for attacking British ports on Haiti, south Cuba and the islands in the middle at the same time. French navy has been attacking Dutch ports with x-flags at once.

I really don't see where Spain and their alliance can make any case complaining about this.

I am looking forward to the flag mechanic to be gone though. I don't really enjoy empty ports. That's why I was hoping for all factions to stop the flag pulling mayhem. If you just pull 1-2 at a time chances for a fight are much higher. At times we had 25 captains ready for a defense but couldn't agree on where to fight so we didn't defend any port. Lots of wasted time

Edited by Chimera
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To be fair: this weekends offensive was the answer for attacking British ports on Haiti, south Cuba and the islands in the middle at the same time. French navy has been attacking Dutch ports with x-flags at once.

I really don't see where Spain and their alliance can make any case complaining about this.

I am looking forward to the flag mechanic to be gone though. I don't really enjoy empty ports. That's why I was hoping for all factions to stop the flag pulling mayhem. If you just pull 1-2 at a time chances for a fight are much higher. At times we had 25 captains ready for a defense but couldn't agree on where to fight so we didn't defend any port. Lots of wasted time

 

I agree. Less port battles will mean people will actually play them and we'll have fun. And with less port battles smaller nations will have a chance to defend them.

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This week-end (27 & 28th of Agust) has been very painful for the Spanish faction.

 

The brit offensive campaign has been performed in a very impressive manner.

All my personal respect to the commander who has planned these operations, as well as to all these players that were available for such a large scale campaign.

 

Also, we can appreciate the clever decision to disregard the Eastern front (Haiti) to powerfully focus onto Western Sapish territories, with allies support. 

 

Great organization gents

A pleasure to fight you !

(otherwise it should be so boring like against the Americans :P)

Much appreciated to see someone go beyond the useless whining and see a tactical acomplishment. My respects to you and those others that I/we saw put up a fight. As to the population advantage - we were heavily supported by the Dutch and some US players and I personally fought continuesly for nearly 13 hours yesterday and that took its toll. What we did was hard work whether people are able to accept that or not.

 

I'd also like to remind those that whine that we were in a state of non aggression (not counting US support a war that you chose not to end). It was your choice to join the 4vs3 thinking it would be an easy victory when fighting 5vs3. That plan backfired on you big time. Do not always look for the fault on the enemy side or within game mechanics but consider your own actions as well. An empty port is a port to be taken nonetheless - in a war that you chose yourself it is your duty to defend it with whatever you got and not ours to stop because youre too lazy or depressed to defend your own possessions. We did that with the 3 Admirals Treaty and we only saw you come back again to try and kill us. We saw merit in letting you recover last time - I struggle to hold back this time!

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Very amusing how ppl think to play on british side is the "easy mode"

U have no clue how difficult it is to fight on several frontlines at the same time over weeks and months!

And now u blame others... If i remember, u attacked the british at first after the treaty, dont forget that!

:D  :D :D  :D  

So dificult? :D  :D

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I haven't seen many comments from French players in this thread.

 

At risk of sticking my hand into the hornet's nest, I dare say that Spain's allies are sleeping on the job.

 

Seems a bit one-sided, yes? I've seen screenshots of Spanish helping the French in their battles, but not so many French helping Spanish. Perhaps if Spain were to remember this in the next round of voting . . . well, you might guess what I'm getting at.

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To be fair: this weekends offensive was the answer for attacking British ports on Haiti, south Cuba and the islands in the middle at the same time. French navy has been attacking Dutch ports with x-flags at once.

I really don't see where Spain and their alliance can make any case complaining about this.

I am looking forward to the flag mechanic to be gone though. I don't really enjoy empty ports. That's why I was hoping for all factions to stop the flag pulling mayhem. If you just pull 1-2 at a time chances for a fight are much higher. At times we had 25 captains ready for a defense but couldn't agree on where to fight so we didn't defend any port. Lots of wasted time

 

Nobody is complaining about nothing, or despising the attack this weekend .....
 
You are in all your right to respond to the conquest of the southern ports of Cuba and the Gulf .... ...... Totally understandable and expectable.
 
It was a very well organized attack (the organization is not our strong point) ....... It was a joint attack with several allies, which also organized says a lot about your allies, (They say we have allies, but I thing They are the parents.) ..... And besides this, have enough people to make several attacks simultaneously ......... We almost can not even defend a single port .......
 
These are the facts, no one complains, no kicking, no one cries ...... Say that you are more and better organized is not a complaint nor cry ..... it is a fact.
 
At this point, you have two options ..... keep pitching 6 or 7 flags at once, with this, you will conquer 6 or 7 ports without firing a gun. Or attack a single port, and win or loose, but fighting hard .... .....
 
You want to win, or you want to play? ............. This is an important issue ....
 
In real life, the goal is to win at all cost, lives are on game, and win is the most important. But this is not the real life, this is a game ..... In a game,  the important thing is not to win but have fun in the process...... Victory or defeat is something that comes at the end, but what matters is having fun in the process, not the outcome.
 
Congrats to the people that attack us last weekend, maybe some day we will be so organised as yours......
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Such a cute cat!

 

On the topic, as it is now, it is very very hard for a new player to play as a Spaniard. 

 

I am rank 4 and yesterday I really considered to stop playing with most of the ports lost, can't trade to earn some gold, can't move any goods north-south of Cuba, ports I had outposts in captured (and I spent almost all the gold I had on building buildings there) and not being able to effectively defend anything since Spain can maybe get enough players for one defense (I was welcomed in one defense with a mortar brig, that's how desperate we were) and UK can have several real attacks simultaneously.

 

But luckily new conquest mechanics will finally end British using huge pop to zerg many ports at once and in one night. Then player population will, hopefully, not have such a huge impact on the gameplay anymore because this really is detrimental to the game. And it really creates toxicity in the game between players from different nations.

 

And to think that i really wanted to roll UK (loved Hornblower and Aubrey series), but decided not to because everybody went UK and thought it would be too onesided if we all joined UK.

It is hard for all new players, spend some time infront of the Brit capital some time. French/spanish/pirate/Danes/and now sweeds gank there. We have to fight every day like you have been for a couple days. But its a fun game.

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Every nation on the coalition is looking on west gangbang with sadness. British have used the pb timer of spain to capture many from them.

British have won few ports this week end but lost strategical area. We are builind a coalition to win a war and we will. It will be good days and bad days.

The only thing wich may us fail is the wipe to come too early.

Now we don't have to make public everythings we think.

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It is hard for all new players, spend some time infront of the Brit capital some time. French/spanish/pirate/Danes/and now sweeds gank there. We have to fight every day like you have been for a couple days. But its a fun game.

 

I wasn't complaining or whining. I was just using me as an example what happens when game mechanics allows for unlimited port captures for a lower level player of a low pop nation. I know it would be more suited for a "suggestions" thread but it just accidentally deralied.

 

I wasn't referring to the capital. British have plenty safe areas where lower levels can trade and set up in more or less peace before moving to pvp heavier areas.

 

Every nation must have safe area for people to get set up in (first ships, outposts, crafting, it all takes some gold and infrastructure and you need it all if you want to be able to play and help your nation in any meaningful way). By safe area I do not mean that there is no pvp or ganking etc, but that you have a certain number of ports where you can make a small profit by trading and where you can within a reasonable time and distance get materials needed for crafting, and which ports are far enough or deep enough inside friendly territory that you do not expect large scale invasions.

 

Spain starts with large number of ports and not enough population to defend them. So its ports get soon gobbled up and it ends up with Spain spread thin and sandwiched between other nations, which means it is susceptible to being cut in half (like it happened). 

 

Now, such a thing can happen to any nation, I was using Spain as an example because A) I play as a Spaniard and B) Spain lost large number of ports in a very short time.

 

So, I was just showing on my example how this situation can seriously affect newer players which can lead to a nation becoming seriously gimped and can no longer function properly, for it to continue it needs to conquer back ports, for that it needs players and due to it's position players will not want or be able to get any ranks to be able to actually help.

 

We are testing this game still and trying to help devs to balance game mechanics and other things, so i think every meaningful input is welcome and valid.

 

But since new conquest mechanics are coming in, this is all more or less academic now.

 

EDIT: that should not be a smiley, but a letter "b" followed by a ")"

 

EDIT2: And to make absolutely clear: I am not complaining! I was for the past two days sailing in anything that floats that I can crew to try and help defend, apart from solo attacking British fleet with my snow, which would be just stupid. So I want more fights, but fights where it's not assault fleets against empty ports en masse. My point is that for me to do that I must have a chance to rank up and, more importantly, fund my ships and crafting. And current situation can deter players like me from the game. And then in the end all there will be to do will be doing same mission over and over and over or hunting contraband AI traders.

 

And sometimes people just want to log on and do a trade run and craft that ship they were waiting to craft and were gathering mats for, and not sail for 6 hours all over the map with every other port being enemy port just to get 100k gold or some stone blocks.

Edited by Todbringer
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another uncultured that confuses the Spaniards with the Mexicans, if you were yankis I would understand, but you......

Yeah.. mostly americans culture like Erickilla and his band of "malotes" (you are always saying we must to cut the grass of your garden, dont you?).

 

Remember: South Border is Mexico(TeQUila), overseas is Spain (San Miguel).

 

:-)

 

Regards from a mexiñol.

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Every nation on the coalition is looking on west gangbang with sadness. British have used the pb timer of spain to capture many from them.

British have won few ports this week end but lost strategical area. We are builind a coalition to win a war and we will. It will be good days and bad days.

The only thing wich may us fail is the wipe to come too early.

Now we don't have to make public everythings we think.

You didn't look sad when spain, Denmark and the Pirates started their "gangbang" on British ports while pulling as many flags on the Dutch as possible.

You need to cut the BS here. If you do it it's fine if we answer we are "bad people". Get to grips with it

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You didn't look sad when spain, Denmark and the Pirates started their "gangbang" on British ports while pulling as many flags on the Dutch as possible.

You need to cut the BS here. If you do it it's fine if we answer we are "bad people". Get to grips with it

 

He didn't say anything wrong mate. I would be sad too if french or other allies were being defeated and glad if our enemies were being defeated. No one is saying that anything what happened is bad or that the British did something wrong. It's a game. 

 

I am only sad and sorry that it was so onesided and that there were no epic battles and struggles. But I guess everybody is. I doubt players on British side enjoyed fighting empty port battles too.

Edited by Todbringer
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I felt some empathy (not sympathy) for Spain over the past two days...even as I spent both days as one cog in the so-called "zerg".   I recognize it's not too much fun to be on the receiving end of what we were dealing.  Just some comments from one English captain's perspective (I don't speak for the leaders/diplomats from established Brit clans, let alone for the Brit nation).

 

1.  "Brits have the population to attack/defend many ports at once."  There may be a kernel of truth to this, but some important caveats.  We have a large population...but tend to be spread out over timezones.  At any given point in time (i.e., during any single 2-hr port-timer window), I don't think Britain has many more players for a full port-battle fleet than any other nation.  What players saw in game messages and the map was a lot of British flags, not a lot of British fleets.

 

2.  Instead, what has been seen over the past two days has been the result of solid planning and coordination by a very small group of players....in fact, one player in particular.  I refrain from naming because I don't want him to become the favorite target of every French/Dane/Spanish/Swedish/Pirate gank fleet in the OW....plus he's not the type of guy who seeks or would enjoy public credit.  Brit captains (at least the ones who pay attention) know who he is, as well as several key US/Dutch leaders.  This player deserves some kudos for having conceived, planned, coordinated, and executed an imaginative and complex operation.

 

3.  The in-game mechanics are misleading, in creating the false appearance of a monolithic British steamroller.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Flags, battle/port-capture messages, and map colors may be British...and even the ships' ensigns inside battle instances.  But make no mistake: what occurred this weekend was a combined US-VP-UK operation.  British flags supported by willing and able Dutch and US captains (who, obtw, temporarily deprioritized their own nations' challenges in order to support the overall alliance effort).   From the perspective of testing second- and third-order effects of the new alliance mechanics introduced in 9.94, I'd say that occurred in spades this weekend.  We learned a lot of things which are now feasible with these mechanics (as well as a few things which are not).

 

4.  Some may perceive the Spanish response as "roll over and play dead".   Likewise, nothing could be further from the truth.  What I saw was a consistent intelligent defense by the Spanish captains available and on hand.  A very effective screening effort which neutralized our attempted attacks on Baja, Santa Fe, Robras, and came very close to doing so at Pinar del Rio.   Continuous Spanish scouting (and obtw, some French scouts as well)...whatever other organizational or manpower issues Spain may have, lack of reliable information on our fleets' location/movements was not one of them.  Tough port battle defenses at Conttoy and Daguilla which came quite close to succeeding.  Persistent (and often effective) attempts to isolate and pick off fleet stragglers to whittle down our forces.

 

5.  I don't want to rehash the history of Spain/Britain warfare/diplomacy.  Partially because it's all been repeated ad nauseam, and partially because I'm not really qualified to do so.  I'll just say that, from my perspective, it didn't have to be this way.  A treaty was in place, the intent of which was to maintain Spanish territorial viability.  When the new mechanics were introduced, a good-faith effort was made to extend that treaty, in substance if not in specific detail.   I didn't (and don't) want to fight Spain...and I think many other British captains feel likewise.  Spain chose otherwise, with it's attacks on Little Cayman, Xpu Ha, Tantun Cuzamil, Portillo, Guama Sevilla, Placer, and Misterioso.  Guess what...we don't want Jamaica at risk any more than Spain would want around La Habana.   Hence the US-VP-UK response.

Edited by Bramborough
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5.  I don't want to rehash the history of Spain/Britain warfare/diplomacy.  Partially because it's all been repeated ad nauseam, and partially because I'm not really qualified to do so.  I'll just say that, from my perspective, it didn't have to be this way.  A treaty was in place, the intent of which was to maintain Spanish territorial viability.  When the new mechanics were introduced, a good-faith effort was made to extend that treaty, in substance if not in specific detail.   I didn't (and don't) want to fight Spain...and I think many other British captains feel likewise.  Spain chose otherwise.

 

Well, it's a game on a pvp server, you know we are gonna fight. ;p

 

But one thing worries me, and that is this: "I don't want to rehash the history of Spain/Britain warfare/diplomacy" 

 

That's why I mentioned it creates toxicity. When losing a lot of ports in a short time, people get angry (not only Spanish, we've seen it here with British when they got hit too). We have seen on this forums the tone of the discussions between Spanish and British players and it's the players who are voting for wars & alliances and it also influences their in game behaviour. I'm afraid that we will be (if we aren't already) set in an endless forever war that will never end, with griefing, camping, ganking, etc. Which would be a shame because that means we won't be able to use many game mechanics brought with alliances patch to the full or have fun fighting different opponents, switching alliances, etc.

 

Hopefully, it will change after conquest patch and with influx of the new players after official full release.

 

EDIT: And one more thing. Bramborough said that the Spanish had good scouting and intel on British fleets. That may be true, but English speaking players in Spanish chat sometimes have to wait too long for such a cruical info. Several times it happened that I could tell from conversations that something is happening but had to wait up to 10 minutes for someone to give me a short update in English. if there were (and probably are) more English speaking players we were basically put out of any action for that time by our own side, which is something that must be addressed in Spanish chat. But I think it's fair for me to point out that usually whenever I ask for an explanation in English people in Spanish chat very quickly translate and answer everything and are very nice about it.

Edited by Todbringer
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Very amusing how ppl think to play on british side is the "easy mode"

U have no clue how difficult it is to fight on several frontlines at the same time over weeks and months!

And now u blame others... If i remember, u attacked the british at first after the treaty, dont forget that!

Come play D-N or sweden. And then come back to your opinion.

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Well, it's a game on a pvp server, you know we are gonna fight. ;p

 

But one thing worries me, and that is this: "I don't want to rehash the history of Spain/Britain warfare/diplomacy" 

 

That's why I mentioned it creates toxicity. When losing a lot of ports in a short time, people get angry (not only Spanish, we've seen it here with British when they got hit too). We have seen on this forums the tone of the discussions between Spanish and British players and it's the players who are voting for wars & alliances and it also influences their in game behaviour. I'm afraid that we will be (if we aren't already) set in an endless forever war that will never end, with griefing, camping, ganking, etc. Which would be a shame because that means we won't be able to use many game mechanics brought with alliances patch to the full or have fun fighting different opponents, switching alliances, etc.

 

Hopefully, it will change after conquest patch and with influx of the new players after official full release.

 

I agree with you, and commented on that factor a couple weeks ago, just before the alliance mechanics were introduced.  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15548-the-three-admirals-treaty-pvp1/page-26

 

Just be aware that there's at least one English captain who isn't interested in "an endless forever war" with Spain, and who would welcome a future alliance (or at least neutrality) between the two nations, should it ever become feasible (which would necessitate a Spanish rapprochement not only with Britain, but with US/VP as well).  I won't speak for any other Brit in that regard...other than to say that I don't think I'm alone.

 

Edit:  when I wrote the linked post above, I was of course aware of the standing British-Dutch alliance at the time, but as a newer player to PvP1, did not yet fully grasp the depth of mutual VP-UK affinity.  I thought, just looking at the map and capital locations, that VP might well align differently with the new mechanics once full playerbases could vote binding alliances.  I was wrong.  Hey, I'm learning too.  Apologies to Dutch allies for doubting you; I do not any longer.

Edited by Bramborough
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I'm surprised that anyone still cares about gaining/losing ports at all considering the upcoming wipe. Figured that people might finally resolve to stage guaranteed 25v25 PBs to guarantee some good fights while waiting for the wipe, but instead we have this. ^^

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Over the last 6 weeks the Brits have:

 

1: Proclaimed a unilateral declaration limiting actions against Spanish ports. All Brit RvR players showed great restraint to not attack Spanish ports.

2: This unilateral declaration was, after 3 weeks of relative peace, changed into a the 'Three Admirals treaty' extending our own  declaration in a bilateral peace, all parties involved followed that treaty to the letter.

3: When the 'Three Admirals treaty' ended, multiple attempts where made to extend the treaty, initially by the Spaniards and later on by the Brits. Spanish council refused to continue despite our warnings we no longer would hold back due to the changed political situation of 5 v 3 nations

4: Spain declared war, Britain reacted.

 

As far as I'm concerned the Brits have presented a courtagous and an empathatic stance during the duration of their own unilateral declaration and the 'three admirals treaty'. These actions, asking a lot of restraint from the GB playerbase, was for the benifit of the Spanish players, the game itself  itself and sure enough to appease our diplomatic relations with our allies.

 

I'm sorry you and other players with you find it difiicult to play the game you like to play, due to the British territorial offense. But keep in mind that it has been your own council which chose a path they knew in advance, would lead to a British reaction.

 

We truly hope the next patch will include new mechanisms with makes life for the starters a bit easier.

 

A correct Spanish translation of this post would be appreciated so all Spanish players understand what lead to this and for what reasons.

Edited by Gooneybird
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I can`t believe ... really you put the ports conquered this weekend south of Cuba between 2 and 6 am ??.............. I did not believe it when they told me.

 

Sorry, these are my first words, and my last words about timers............. but................ 

 

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

 

We loose enemies fastest than wars......... XD

 

 

NtRTI.png

Edited by Alvar Fanez de Minaya
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