Spain is at War

[Tenakha Kan]

 

TLDR; 

• Britain: what's with the insatiable craving for Spanish ports
• Danes, French: get your act together and help the Spaniards
• US, VP: GB owes you one now

 

 

We do what we can. Some days we have the numbers, some days we haven't. Since we are limited in outposts and the spanish have wierd timers we are either too far or too late to help. Our council is discussing about what we can do to help our Spanish friends. To them we say don't loose hope, having lived the same situation we know what you are going through

[Lord Ravenburg]

In this case I was not talking about port timers, I was talking about zerging

 

Zerging, well we do have a lot of players that need entertaining .

 

Spain has been happy to oblige it would seem.

 

With multiple flags being crafted against British Ports daily I have limited sympathy. In a perfect world I would see rid of the port timers however and allow any Spanish forces, regardless of time to have fair opportunity to defend their ports. I do not like the Port Timers at all, I feel the mechanic excludes a lot of RVR play.

 

However Spain was warned, and we have acted in accordance, the rules of war dictate this to be fair.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

[Tenakha Kan]

Zerging, well we do have a lot of players that need entertaining .

 

Spain has been happy to oblige it would seem.

 

With multiple flags being crafted against British Ports daily I have limited sympathy. In a perfect world I would see rid of the port timers however and allow any Spanish forces, regardless of time to have fair opportunity to defend their ports. I do not like the Port Timers at all, I feel the mechanic excludes a lot of RVR play.

 

However Spain was warned, and we have acted in accordance, the rules of war dictate this to be fair.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

 

You have the number, they don't.

 

Warned or not, they have to have an ennemy in the same time zone or they'll just stop playing, in this case, its you....so try to understand, that's all I ask.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Tenakha Kan

[_Alucard_]

Well, I would like to give my humble opinion here. Not the Spanish faction opinion, just only mine (although I guess a lot would agree)

 

What happened last weekend was produced by:

a) it was the last weekend of this summer, people wanted to relax, go to the beach, have some fun partying and all of that, so spanish players online were at minimum numbers.

A really good job by the brits and their allies that could be carried out with the minimum oposition.

c) The attacks overwhelmed the few Spanish captains online, so disorganization was understandable.

 

But, all that said, I want to go further.

After friday night, Spain had (I don't remember the numbers) let's say about 45 ports. Today, Spain has 11 ports.

Do you think it should be possible this kind of loss in just 2 days? I think something is wrong when you fight your best and you lose all you achieved in just a summer weekend.

 

Ok, doesn't matter. Let's try to recapture ports. We want to fight and ......wait, what kind of timers are those? All ports surrounding La Habana and our first steps to grow again are set to 4-6 am or even worse.

Really? I repeat: really? Do you really need that kind of behaviour? It seems that everything is allowed in order to win.....no matter what you do, only thing that really matters is that the Spanish are forced to wake up in the middle of the night if they want to grow again and have some fun.

 

Let me say this: now all the server can see these actions and they can take their own conclusions. I guess the vast majority will agree that something is wrong here.

 

This is clearly something the devs should adress right now, because after Spain we can expect the same actions agains other small nations. Yes, it's not only a issue for Spain, it can and (I think) will be for the next one.

GB has as all of us can see in the alliance vote big numbers (even more than 4 nations together), but they don't just depend on their own numbers but they can count on other nations to join battles and do the dirty job for them.

So, Spain fought a war with GB almost for 6 months and although it had good and bad days, I think it was a lot of fun. They needed another nation (VP) to join them and throw us out of southeast of Cuba after beeing defending Santiago day in and day out. Yes, I don't include here the US because they were useless in that war (I don't want to despise US players, but it's the truth). Oh, and think for a moment: if you capture a port you have 2 days of "peace" in that port; if you defend a port you can be attacked the next day......Something is wrong here as well.

 

I know you will tell us that this is a global server and you can set the timers as you wish, but this is just a dirty trick and you all know it. I know you have players 24h a day and we don't, but you are just avoiding any kind of fun to all of the Spanish players. We have lives, family, friends, jobs, and we are not as populated as you are. 

The game so far is telling us that no matter what you do, you can't compete with GB if you can only defend/attack 1 port at once. They can defend/attack more than you and you are fucked.

So, as we are testing a game, this is clearly a lesson to the devs. They are the ones that need this fixed if they want the game to be a success.

 

Oh, and the last thing I want to say is this: I personally will fight you until I have no ships and no money, so if you want to reduce Spain to one port, I will die defending before being a slave or a puppet of GB.

I will not sail another flag, only the Spanish and I know I'm not the only one with this idea.

You don't really know how a pain in the neck we can be.....or maybe you do, because a 6 months war is a good example.

 

You showed your real face a long time ago. And how you come to this forum to piss us off is as dirty as your fucking timers.

 

There has been some british players that don't approve what you have done and I know there are a lot more out there who share this thought but they don't come here to write it on this forum.

 

Time will pass but this is not going to be forgotten.

 

Now, it's time for you to reply me with your easy answers. The same users all the time.....I don't care

[Tenakha Kan]

Jeheil talks about biffo in his letters to the king. I like his videos but here it's not biffo here it's just complete annihilation and it's just...wrong.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Tenakha Kan

[Lord Ravenburg]

You have the number, they don't.

 

Warned or not, they have to have an ennemy in the same time zone or they'll just stop playing, in this case, its you....so try to understand, that's all I ask

 

 

Tenakha,

 

I have the upmost respect for you, we seem to have seen eye to eye on more than one occasion.

 

I completely agree that not having an opponent in the same time zone must be vexing, but how do we solve this? The British nation has a 24/7 timezone for its player base. If Spain has only the euro time zone, who can they fight in that corner? The USA?

 

If this is a signification problem for them, they would need to either relocate down to the South Eastern side of the map or for more Euro Centric nations to join them in the north.

 

If Spain needs a Euro opponent, what do we do?

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

[Tenakha Kan]

Tenakha,

 

I have the upmost respect for you, we seem to have seen eye to eye on more than one occasion.

 

I completely agree that not having an opponent in the same time zone must be vexing, but how do we solve this? The British nation has a 24/7 timezone for its player base. If Spain has only the euro time zone, who can they fight in that corner? The USA?

 

If this is a signification problem for them, they would need to either relocate down to the South Eastern side of the map or for more Euro Centric nations to join them in the north.

 

If Spain needs a Euro opponent, what do we do?

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

 

 

Unfortunatly I think that it's an unsolvable problem as the only factions with a meaningfull playerbase in oceanic timers are the US, the Pirates and the Brits. The Pirates are Pirates....and are left out of alliances and the Brits and US are allied. As a lambda player I don't have an answer to this problem. The only solution I see for the oceanic players at the moment would be for the US and Birtain to be ennemies but it's not going to happen....So why not try for exemple to set the most important ports for the Spanish to EU timers and set the outer timers to middleground timers? That's something that could be discussed. What could be done also is to prevent the launching of 10 flags in the same minute.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Tenakha Kan

[Lord Ravenburg]

Unfortunatly I think that it's an unsolvable problem as the only factions with a meaningfull playerbase in oceanic timers are the US, the Pirates and the Brits. The Pirates are Pirates....and are left out of alliances and the Brits and US are allied. As a lambda player I don't have an answer to this problem. The only solution I see for the oceanic players at the moment would be for the US and Birtain to be ennemies but it's not going to happen....So why not try for exemple to set the most important ports for the Spanish to EU timers and set the outer timers to middleground timers? That's something that could be discussed

 

Thank you for your contribution.

 

I to think this is a fair and reasonable request. Maybe the diplomats should look at discussing this?

 

Surely there can be an in house resolution to this problem which would see the EU based Brits stationed for the fights the Spaniards can attend. As an Australasian time zone player I too know the feeling getting up early and going to bed late to achieve some things.

I look forward to an easier system.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

[Captain Underpants]

In this case I was not talking about port timers, I was talking about zerging

And yet, as has been confirmed on this thread already, most of the Spanish ports were taken by a very small number of ships; often only 2 or 3 - hardly a zerg...

Nonetheless, Britain has spent most of the time since the Steam release fighting on multiple fronts against multiple, more numerous enemies. The current 5v3 situation is more of the same and explains why Britain chose to isolate one enemy and bring numbers in a concentrated manner.

I fail to see the argument you have with 'zerging.' Surely putting the numbers you have in the right place, at the right time, causing you to outnumber the enemy is simple common sense and to do anything else would be simply absurd.

Every faction in this game has always tried to create a situation where they outnumber an enemy and tried to make the most of those numbers - and rightly so.

[Vernon Merrill]

Here's an idea. Pick a different enemy and attack them. Choose someone in your time zone. The mechanics are there. Use them.

[Tenakha Kan]

Here's an idea. Pick a different enemy and attack them. Choose someone in your time zone. The mechanics are there. Use them.

 

So when are you going to attack the brits?

[Captain Underpants]

Well gentlemen,

This topic has gotten very much out of hand. The personal insults have become direct, intentional and serve no purpose other than to show your ignorance and or general maliciousness, this has been on both sides of the argument. Spain is at War with GB, this is true, however it has been said that it was in the manner the war was fought that dictated the true victor.

Very few here, speaking of the war and the actions taken have presented themselves in a manner that would consider them victorious. Reading the comments about exploits, personal character, the weakness of nations, the skill at which they play and then some very off topic comments from some very angry people. This is a test phase alpha gentlemen, if we don't test it, how will it get better? Does each nation set timers according to when their players are awake, yes, does GB have a large player base, most definitely. However they are spread across an almost 24 hour clock. I would be impressed if we were able to muster double your number at any one time.

I personally will no longer entertain the port timer argument, it will be gone soon and replaced.

I have much respect for many of my enemies, especially those who have fought on to the end, the Swedes and the French were the last I fought in major engagements. My hats were off to those fine folk, everyone fought with honour and decorum, I personally do not enjoy fighting the Spanish.

There are those among the pirate nation (hated that they are) that have also shown exceptional skill and are rightly to be feared in smaller engagements.

However I stress, that the comments being flung around this thread have made me question how old we are, how mature. Because this senseless name calling needs to stop. Either that or like everything else it will be reported, shunned and eventually the poor person who does not change their attitude will find their voice a tiny little squeak amongst the debating adults.

Fight this war as gentlemen, or keep your toxicity to yourself.

Yours hopefully,

Ravenburg.

This, a thousand times over.

Though I suspect your wise words will have as much effect as farting in the wind, human nature being what it is...

[Tenakha Kan]

The Swedes are eager to fight, the Danes are eager to fight, the French are fighting the Dutch, the Spanish are overwhelmed. Balance is key. British captains, turn your eyes to us, we are waiting for you.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Tenakha Kan

[Vernon Merrill]

So when are you going to attack the brits?

I'm not the one complaining about timers. ;-)

[von Beckett]

Hopefully I can clear some things up here and add my 2 cents to this topic

 

The lead up to the "Blitzkrieg" against Spain came out of Diplomacy. Originally, the Spanish sued for an extension to the Three Admirals treaty, but soon both side quickly forgot it and discarded it. After, the British tried to extend the treaty under the threat of war. (of course, as that was the only other option) However, the British DID warn that this exact thing would happen to Spain, but the talks continued to be fruitless. Finally, after British diplomats spent countless hours trying to talk with Spain, the Spanish simply declined all agreements and declared war. A strait up declaration of war against someone you are at peace with is a very bold move. With this, many people in the British nation expected there to be a sudden scourge of Spanish vessels into British waters, and quickly went into defensive mode. after nearly a week of war, the expected Spanish armada never came.

 

You can understand at this point the 3 allies were disappointed. No major offensive came, nothing. This had all but wasted everyone's time.

 

At this point, the Allies of Great Britain, Holland, and the United States met up, organized, and went on the offensive. I say "Allies" because the attacks against Spain were in no way only British. Plenty of Dutch and American captains helped a LOT. 

 

And the rest is history. Port after port fell to the Allies, and the Major engagements were won by the British (pointing at the battle of Daguilla and outside Robras) except for the first battle of San Lazaro, which ended in Spanish victory after overwhelming numbers joined in. (the port was taken the following day after the Dutch/British brought a larger force)

 

That's just a summary of the British POV.

 

OPINION TIME:

 

Spain should have expected the reaction they got, and their allies were not there for them when they needed it the most.

[Chimera]

The Swedes are eager to fight, the Danes are eager to fight, the French are fighting the Dutch, the Spanish are overwhelmed. Balance is key. British captains, turn your eyes to us, we are waiting for you.

Im sure we will. After the thread of being attacked in the back is eliminated

[Jeheil]

If you all want a common enemy...please...attack my ISP...3rd day with no internet....will there even be any ports left !!

 

There are a few things here, personal insults, out of order. Claims of cheating...or exploiting unless backed up by evidence....out of order (IMO).

 

As for the 'blitzkrieg' or to give it its proper name #SpainPainTrain (no blitzes for another 120 odd years), this was the direct result of the Brits needing to make a tactical choice.

 

Spain declared war on Britain, lets not get into the shenanaghins about the 3 admiral treaty, diplomacy, insta-port attack.

 

The declaration of war while the Brits were losing ground to the Danes, Swedes, Pirates in Haiti/South Cuba, while the Dutch were losing ports in Haiti and on their own East Flank, exposed the Brits to a very bad position.

 

Immediately after Spain declared war, it started off by "winning" taking south cuba, misterioasa and Little Caymen. I see no sad panda posts around this period of the war.

 

Spain had MORE NUMBERS than Australia in Aussie TZ. Lets be clear here, 8pm in Australia is midday in Spain. We are in the middle of Spanish holidays.

 

The Brits (and their Allies) had a simple situation.

 

We are being attacked (and are losing) on both the East and West flank.

 

The tactic. Focus on one flank. "Break" them, then with that Flank secure/in hold mode, turn to the other flank and engage there.

 

This is what the Brits did. After several consecutive nights of meeting SUPERIOR numbers in the Aussie timezone in the Yucutan, we co-ordinated with our allies and in 2 nights we broke Spain there...at the same time our 'day shift' stuck the knife into the southern belly of Cuba 'proper'.

 

For Britain and her allies to win 'the war', we need to break a flank, to make that flank not be a threat anymore.

 

Forget timers, forget looking for a fair fight, forget the game is in alpha and testing and things will change.

 

Tactically. That is what was needed and was done.

 

But dont forget, Spain successfully defended Cuyo repeatadly, indeed nearly took Xu Pha until Brits ALLIES came and helped. When we did break through we attacked with THREE fleets totaling about 42 players, split into a 'mad shallow island capping' unit of 6-8 players, a full 4th rate fleet and about 6-8 screeners...who incidentally were defeated (well stopped) by SUPERIOR numbers at Baja in AUSTRALIAN TIMEZONE (this would have been 40-50 Spanish defenders against 35-40 Brit Allied aggressors)....so lets not have all this we 'dont' have anyone on. This was like 12-4pm Spain time. There were ZERO Spanish allies present. 30% of the Brit force were Dutch/US (and thanks btw).

 

The Brits have the biggest player base. It is split across US (25%), Euro (50%) and Oceanic (25%)  timezones (approx)...that is our STRENGTH...when you attack us....when you declare war against us...DO NOT expect us to not use that strength. If you wan't to fight someone with a 90% Eurotimezone....protip : pick a different enemy.

 

Spain is losing because it is alone and it's allies are not helping.

 

The Brits are beating Spain because our allies helped us.

 

"Choose your friends well and your enemies better."  - Jeheil-Sun-Zoo 1803 Cuyo Sports Bar...while internet was down

Edited August 31, 2016 by Jeheil

[Skully]

But, it will not last. The Ausies timezone can only pit them against US and Chinese. So regardless of Pirate mechanics or Nation stuff, we must have means of providing gameplay to all timezones.

So once again I'll say:

It is a known exploit to set ports to anything other than no-timer. Since all of you here are of good sportsmanship, I expect it won't happen again.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15577-alliances-final-design/?p=290382

Given the player base distribution across time zones, this might result in the 18-20's deciding what wars fights will be allowed, right?

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15577-alliances-final-design/?p=290683

And herein I'm worried. If a clan is structured around a specific time slot which conflicts with the majority of a nation's time slot, then its current alliances might be different. Especially if it is diametrically opposed time slots.

Before Jeheil can say you need to expand your community. I think it is perfectly fine for a clan to choose for itself a specific time slot.

I hinted at this in the Three Admirals Treaty, but I fear Olav deleted my comment.

http://forum.game-la...anics/?p=280857

Now when we have the hostility mechanism, the fighting goes across time slots, but the ultimate port battle will not.

And your only "enemy" clan that is in the same time slot might be a forced ally because of the national alliance.

The real problem I see is Alliances conflicting with practical time-zone fights. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15655-national-and-clan-edicts/?p=292360

So will the new Region Zone mechanic be enough to balance it out over time-zones?

I hope so. But I can't know for sure, so I'll keep myself on Brace.

Also picture what would happen if such a British zerg would continue onto Spain?

Would the British want to gobble up Spain into their ranks and have to deal with the situation of being a hostile conqueror?

Or would the Spanish players go Independent to strike out at a new area and reform Spain at Cartagena de Indias?

Options, choices and stories... the life and blood of Naval Action.

[Éric]

May I remind you that France started the "lets pull 15 flags at once to avoid fighting" BS when attacking the Dutch.

I am starting to get concerned with your short memory span. You might want to seek a doctor

 

Propaganda on ?

 

On the first monday we bought 4 flags and placed 3 one after the other. The Dutch bought 4 and sent 2 together which were sunk on the open sea.

 

We have no problem with that btw. It gives some small scale actions for scouts, screens and new players.

[Skully]

The Brits have the biggest player base. It is split across US (25%), Euro (50%) and Oceanic (25%)  timezones (approx)...that is our STRENGTH...when you attack us....when you declare war against us...DO NOT expect us to not use that strength. If you wan't to fight someone with a 90% Eurotimezone....protip : pick a different enemy.

 

Spain is losing because it is alone and it's allies are not helping.

 

The Brits are beating Spain because our allies helped us.

 

"Choose your friends well and your enemies better."  - Jeheil-Sun-Zoo 1803 Cuyo Sports Bar...while internet was down

 

So you can hide your territory behind the time slots. You may call it an exploit or not. It does not matter.

 

It is broken. It must be fixed. Region Conquest is coming, so does the first part of the Exterminatus.

 

Our Lord has revealed what the Free Empire already knew:

This means that current port conquest is becoming even more meaningless.

 

And thus we wait... we abide our time... we prepare...

 

The End is Nigh

[CptEdwardKenway]

So when are you going to attack the brits?

I know many of our enemies would like to see a 6 vs 2 situation but this won't happen.

It was up to spain what they do and what their action will cause.

[CptEdwardKenway]

And no defense was given. So the Brits refuse to defend their ports are the same as spain according to your logic.

You really complaim why brits don't defend some ports when they get attacked by 4 enemies? Maybe you should rethink your 5 vs 3 balance.

[CptEdwardKenway]

I never said it was 75 British players... 

I got that info from a british players bragging in Global Chat. If it's wrong, blame him mate. Not me.  

 

 

 

No thats more like 40 minutes. 

But KPR to Jeremie takes 10-15 Minutes, maybe 20-25 in a first rate. 

Bani was not the only port you had on Haiti, as a british players you should know that.

Same goes to you. When you switch sides and attack with 4 nations 1 nation from 3 sides don't expect every port will be defended. You switched sides and caused a major disbalance. It was your choice and you knew this would happen.

[Todbringer]

Well, how about some roleplay here?

 

Spain has been defeated. Our king has been forced to make concessions, we were humiliated, etc.

 

Treaty should be reached by which Spain will get its ports back and be forced to ally with the UK and that forced alliance should last at least a month (2 weeks, a week, no idea how much time would be good).

 

That way Brits get something strategical with winning this one, Spain gets to play again, there are some welcome changes of scenery in who fights whom and this way in the future all allies in all alliances will get an incentive to help their allies or else their once allies might be forced to turn against them.

 

I think big Spanish clans can get enough votes for an alliance with Britain if needed to pretend it's a forced alliance?

Edited August 31, 2016 by Todbringer

[Kloothommel]

You really complaim why brits don't defend some ports when they get attacked by 4 enemies? Maybe you should rethink your 5 vs 3 balance.

You wot mate?

 

Brits = 35% of server (not counting allies). Balance is perfect.