[PVP1 EU] How power makes you sick

[fox2run]

Still waiting on an answer. The argument isn't that you can't do it, the argument is that impeding the work of others makes you an <insert expletive here>, and will have you treated accordingly.

 

Still waiting on an answer. The argument isn't that you can't do it, the argument is that closing the game for others and trying to make your own rules makes you an <insert expletive here>, and will have you treated accordingly.

[Bramborough]

I'm a newer player to the server (and to NA PvP in general); not quite a month yet.  I'm not in a big clan.  Yet despite the lack of experience and not being connected to a large established clan, I've participated in many recent PB's for Britain, and (as far as I can tell), have been welcomed and accepted by those who've been fighting these battles for months.  No friction or drama whatsoever; not one derogatory term has been uttered (lol, at least none that I could hear/read).  

 

Differences between DN and Brit nations?  I suspect not.  I sought out those with some experience, and asked what and what not to do.  I got hooked in on the nation TS.  I brought the types of ships preferred by the Fleet Commanders.  I listened (may be most important word in this entire post) and followed tactical commands.  I can't say first-hand, but am 99.9% sure that anyone following such methodology within Danmark-Norge (or any other nation) would likewise have met success and become a welcomed contributor to the national RvR effort.  

 

I could have done it differently.   I could've followed the banners to find the battles, and entered into one with an understrength ship.  I could've stayed out of Teamspeak, and remained unaware of Brit strategy/tactics, both in planning and execution.   I have the "RIGHT" to do so.  It's a "PUBLIC" battle.  The "IN-GAME MECHANICS" allow it.    

 

I won't say there's a "right" and "wrong" way...such terms have moral connotations and tend to evoke unnecessary emotion.  But there's "effective" and "Ineffective" ways to go about one's business.  An individual has freedom - the "right" - to pursue any such path.  That does not mean, however, one has a right to expect equal outcomes.  

[fox2run]

If I go into any game - most games. I click "enter battle" - Im put in the fray. Here I do the same, and yet SOME (not ALL) get angry if the ship is wrong or you takes someones "seat".

 

The discussed PB here was an incident where I joined a PB (after the whole nation got invited on nation chat) in a 2nd rate. The PB was empty - I had a reward. Someone in a first rate got angry...

 

Well - dont say that this was in any way abusive behavior... 

 

But again - if you make a PB, you must know that everyone has a right to join. If you get pissed when they do... well... 

[Hethwill]

The true major guidelines are - is it a PvP server or a PvE server ?

From that point onward there's a lot of social work to be done by all players.

 

What is also true is that many many many players refuse to buy their own flags and always ready to get advantage of others buying them.

And if told to organize one they quickly dismiss the idea. Every nation knows these types.

 

All nations suffer from that, that's why most war rooms occur at closed door and expect best fleet to be in.

 

Reputation is all and more so if one is a lone wolf.

[Niagara]

OW is PUBLIC. PBs are PUBLIC. If you dont like a PUBLIC game then make your own, closed tournaments.

 

In the PUBLIC we have common rules. Those rules are steered and made by game-mechanics. Those are the laws we are submitted to.

 

You cannot open a PUBLIC PB and then make your OWN, PRIVATE rules. You are WRONG here!

 

Wow...

 

Anyway, As others have pointed out there is nothing in the game preventing you from joining other players battles or even Port Battles, however doing this and then having no intention of communicating or helping your allies is just bad teamplay and somewhat stupid

You are free to initiate your own OW battles and PB and invite others to join them, but joining a event others have payed for and planned is just rude if your intentions are just to be a nuisance.

 

But joining a PB with a vessel that is underrated for the PB and dont think that action of yours has consequences then you are being delusional. If your filling a spot that would otherwise be empty is another matter itself but perhaps instead of using the "I am the Lone Wolf and can do whatever I please" mentality  you could ask on Nation chat if there are others in ships more suited coming before joining as that can hardly be difficulty for you.

 

The rest of the server is not here to please your needs or desires but this is a game that we share and that requires us to be able to play nicely with eachother or take the consequense of the actions that we/you do. Just because you can do something is not the same as you should do it, common sense is a nice thing to have and use.

 

And No you cant be forced to use TS to communicate with your allies but it helps.. ALOT. And to be typing all the time while fighting a intense and often chaotic battle is not always a option. You dont have to have a mic to join TS you can just listen and that will improve your sides ability to react and counter enemy tactics much faster and efficient then by having someone type every little information that needs to be passed along.

 

Try watching a streamed PB and then try to type the info being given over TS and see how you can do that while doing something else that also requires you to use mouse and keyboard as you would do while commanding a ship.

[Johny Reb]

As long as you

 

If I go into any game - most games. I click "enter battle" - Im put in the fray. Here I do the same, and yet SOME (not ALL) get angry if the ship is wrong or you takes someones "seat".

 

The discussed PB here was an incident where I joined a PB (after the whole nation got invited on nation chat) in a 2nd rate. The PB was empty - I had a reward. Someone in a first rate got angry...

 

Well - dont say that this was in any way abusive behavior... 

 

But again - if you make a PB, you must know that everyone has a right to join. If you get pissed when they do... well... 

As long as you see it both ways fox2run. Legalistically speaking you have a right to join and if they get pissed off about it, well....

Practically speaking if a group organizes, pays for a flag, and assembles a fleet and you get called names for ninja'ing a spot with a lesser ship then, well.....

In that scenario, you are the poop shoot, and your "the mechanic allows it," be damned.

 

We all can see by your attitude and lack of logical processing that none of what you accuse this team of being or doing has anything to do with them being control freaks but rather they simply don't like you because you are a prick who selfishly goes about screwing up other people's plans and actions and getting upset about it when they don't play nice with you.

[sveno]

Power makes sick, i concur, got a cold last week. ^^

 

* Don't mind me, am drunk

Edited August 25, 2016 by sveno

[Kaptein Nielsen]

Mate these clans can do what ever they want to do. If you dont like their decisions then go do your own thing. Nobody is telling you to do anything. What you have to understand here is that these three big clans are the majority of the active playerbase in this nation, and if they agree on doing something then they should be able to do that.

 

"They wont tell any besides their clans about port battles they are planing or are going to do"

 

Well the last time someone from your clan joined a pvp battle he ended up shoting me and tried to push me into a burning, soon to explode ship so maaaaaybe that is why we're not too keen on inviting your clan. 

[fox2run]

 

Wow...

 

Anyway, As others have pointed out there is nothing in the game preventing you from joining other players battles or even Port Battles, however doing this and then having no intention of communicating or helping your allies is just bad teamplay and somewhat stupid

You are free to initiate your own OW battles and PB and invite others to join them, but joining a event others have payed for and planned is just rude if your intentions are just to be a nuisance.

 

But joining a PB with a vessel that is underrated for the PB and dont think that action of yours has consequences then you are being delusional. If your filling a spot that would otherwise be empty is another matter itself but perhaps instead of using the "I am the Lone Wolf and can do whatever I please" mentality  you could ask on Nation chat if there are others in ships more suited coming before joining as that can hardly be difficulty for you.

 

The rest of the server is not here to please your needs or desires but this is a game that we share and that requires us to be able to play nicely with eachother or take the consequense of the actions that we/you do. Just because you can do something is not the same as you should do it, common sense is a nice thing to have and use.

 

And No you cant be forced to use TS to communicate with your allies but it helps.. ALOT. And to be typing all the time while fighting a intense and often chaotic battle is not always a option. You dont have to have a mic to join TS you can just listen and that will improve your sides ability to react and counter enemy tactics much faster and efficient then by having someone type every little information that needs to be passed along.

 

Try watching a streamed PB and then try to type the info being given over TS and see how you can do that while doing something else that also requires you to use mouse and keyboard as you would do while commanding a ship.

 

 

You have to get use to players in PBs that are more casual or dont want to hang around in TS...

 

Its no problem in a PB to maintain formation, etc. with a few, commandos in the chat. Actually it can be better than having 25 players talking in different directions. 

 

BTW I took you on the word and bought a flag... Oddly enough a lot of you guys didnt have any problem wahtsoever joining my no TS PB... I didnt mind, though. ;-)

[Gooneybird]

If I go into any game - most games. I click "enter battle" - Im put in the fray. Here I do the same, and yet SOME (not ALL) get angry if the ship is wrong or you takes someones "seat".

 

The discussed PB here was an incident where I joined a PB (after the whole nation got invited on nation chat) in a 2nd rate. The PB was empty - I had a reward. Someone in a first rate got angry...

 

Well - dont say that this was in any way abusive behavior... 

 

But again - if you make a PB, you must know that everyone has a right to join. If you get pissed when they do... well... 

 

The outcome of a NA fight, wether it be a PB or OW pvp, is highly influenced by the organisation and communication invested in that fight. If you do not want to put an effort in the organisation and/or communication then don't be surprised when people are not welcoming you. You may have a right to join but others have a right to create a chance for themselves.

 

As long as you don't want to accept that you'll remain an outsider. You have the key to your own success. Keep on going like this is just an endless stream of egocentric rethoric mate. Be smart and take the advice so many gave to you - get on TS, listen to what the others expect of you and support yourself by supporting them. 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Gooneybird

[fox2run]

The outcome of a NA fight, wether it be a PB or OW pvp, is highly influenced by the organisation and communication invested in that fight. If you do not want to put an effort in the organisation and/or communication then don't be surprised when people are not welcoming you. You may have a right to join but others have a right to create a chance for themselves.

 

As long as you don't want to accept that you'll remain an outsider. You have the key to your own success. Keep on going like this is just an endless stream of egocentric rethoric mate. Be smart and take the advice so many gave to you - get on TS, listen to what the others expect of you and support yourself by supporting them. 

 

I like to play without TS like the majority of players. I think that we have right to enjoy the game as much as the TS-fanatics. TS seems to be a kind of a place to hang around in more than anything else. Maybe thats why you get soo angry about other apporaches?

Edited August 26, 2016 by fox2run

[Skully]

I like to play without TS like the majority of players. I think that we have right to enjoy the game as much as the TS-fanatics. TS seems to be a kind of a place to hang around in more than anything else. Maybe thats why you get soo angry about other apporaches?

And if a clan says: "We are going to pay and open up a PB, TS is mandatory."

What do you do?

[fox2run]

And if a clan says: "We are going to pay and open up a PB, TS is mandatory."

What do you do?

 

My point here is, that such a behavior is too exclusive for me. Its like gated communities. Its not me. Public is public. And public is for all. OW is made as a public game. With public game-mechanics. If a lot of players want closed, invited PBs, then they should have the devs make it so that the buyer can invite his little club. But then there will be no idea in nations, will there?

[Chimera]

Thats just not how it works, mate.

You can butch about it all you want.

People play with the guys and girls they like. If you do all humanly possible to be disliked, no one will want to play with you.

And that's what's happening here. Since there is no mechanic to prevent you from forcing your way into playing with them, people will try their best to not include you: because it's not fun for them if you are around.

Can you really blame people for trying to get the most enjoyment out of their game time? It's the same you do btw. What's fun for you just contradicts what's fun for them. You will never come to terms on that basis.

[fox2run]

Thats just not how it works, mate.

You can butch about it all you want.

People play with the guys and girls they like. If you do all humanly possible to be disliked, no one will want to play with you.

And that's what's happening here. Since there is no mechanic to prevent you from forcing your way into playing with them, people will try their best to not include you: because it's not fun for them if you are around.

Can you really blame people for trying to get the most enjoyment out of their game time? It's the same you do btw. What's fun for you just contradicts what's fun for them. You will never come to terms on that basis.

 

Well.... I had a lot of players attend to my public PB... :-)

Edited August 26, 2016 by fox2run

[Chimera]

And that's totally fine. You like them and their way to play the game and vice versa.

[Nexeo]

Well.... I had a lot of players attend to my public PB... :-)

 

Your public port battle? no dude, all you did was you ninja'ed a port battle,  you forced everyone to that battle, you didnt even tell anyone you bought that flag did you? you troll all the time, here and in the danish nation chat, funny thing is that now so many are ignoring you in the game, you come here to be feed

 

i will never play with you and if you eventual get on ts i will allso mute you there, as may others porblerly allso will im sure.

[Bartas11]

Agree with Nexeo, i was there and in "your" pb, in my opinion it is  ill  behaviour, to sit there alone in the evening, knowin that the danish offense would reach Sale trou..

buying this Flag for only one reason..his Ego..to show the "stupid" rest something (only he knows what).

Thats just Troll style for me. And i mean real Troll style, that kind of "ill" people that harass open forums and chats to be in focus, its a kind of vampiric behaviour for me.

Thats the reason i Ignore him in Nation Chat.

Sadly he now jumped massively open forum.

 

For me the Game is relaxing after Work, with mostly really nice People crossover Nations.

 

If i use Ignore in ingame chat and the ignored person force me and other to play with him in using "game mechanics" i ask me really what is wrong with that person.

 

My goal...-> Enjoy the Game, the nice Pictures of Sailships, the Thunder of Cannons, The Carribean, the relaxed guys in ts, the ruskis loud laughin, so you get a smile in your face..

 

And whats the Goal of this other Person???

 

Think about it if you feed the Troll,

 

this is my first and last post about him, its to much stress to deal with it.

 

If you see a bloody red Flag with white Cross, it could be my Ship..iam waiting out there

greetings, Bartas11

Danish Kontreadmiral

[fox2run]

This is absurd.

 

The reality was completely different. Im so tired of you two going personal. Now a player buying a flag is a conspirator. Why did you join my battle? Stay away then.... You dislike other players playing as they like just becourse they are not in your TS group. Thats a fact.

 

I took initiative. Thats not a crime.

 

Actually I was going to place a Constitution in La Mona, as it was closer to the front line. I sailed from Isle la Vache for very long time at open sea. At Higue, I saw the PB in Bani began and players chatting on how to place themselves.... I decided to join the fray in order to see some action. The PB in Bani was already taking place. No brits where opposing us whatsoever. Outside we where enough to take another port - quick - before any brits arrived. There where two ports nearby and the one in Sale Trous was the only one with a good timer. I thought I had the gold and I asked on national chat if people would go for it or not... Some agreed and said: YES! I bought the flag - we go the port. And yet you are talking about trolling.

 

Bartas and Nexeo. Im not under your command whatsoever. You reaction just undermine this thread. You want to control things. 100%. How on earth can a player buying a flag AFTER consulting the national chat be a troll? You even went into the PB yourself! 

 

You are WAYYY out of line here. 

[fox2run]

Your public port battle? no dude, all you did was you ninja'ed a port battle,  you forced everyone to that battle, you didnt even tell anyone you bought that flag did you? you troll all the time, here and in the danish nation chat, funny thing is that now so many are ignoring you in the game, you come here to be feed

 

i will never play with you and if you eventual get on ts i will allso mute you there, as may others porblerly allso will im sure.

 

How can a player force anyone into a Port Battle? Just curious....

[Skully]

How can a player force anyone into a Port Battle? Just curious....

You predict human behavior to ensure you get the most aggravation. In other words, behave like a troll.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14792-pvp1-june-22nd-the-foggy-dance-at-bone-cay/

[Wilson09]

So interesting to read this discussion.

 

Amazingly, some economic basics apply here.

Port Battles are neither a private or a public good.

 

The are somewhat club or common-pool ressources. You can figure it out yourself...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_good

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-pool_resource

 

According to the tragedy of the commons, you could refer to PORT BATTLES...as the tragedy of PORT BATTLES.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

The tragedy of the commons is an economic theory of a situation within a shared-resource system where individual users acting independently according to their own self-interest behave contrary to the common good of all users by depleting that resource through their collective action.

-----------------

The fox2run-player "pulling a flag" because he claims he has a right to, clearly destroys the "good succesful Port Battle".

(succesful only with TS and coordination).

 

He acts like the individual fisher/famer whose behaviour leads to overexploitation,

also called overharvesting.

 

In PB terms, call it OverPortBattling or WrongPortBattling.

 

Individual, uncoordinated actions in NA (at Port Battles) finally lead to the "good succesful" Port Battle being destroyed.

It´s a classical problem.

 

Maybe, you see the point now fox2run!?

 

How to tackle the problem?

- regulate (devs design, like the state or government)

- community solves the problem

 

And interestingly, the Pirates community "regulated" this problem nicely, by putting everyone on a "kill on sight" list,

who did not follow the likes / bahaviour of the majority.

 

And more interestingly, research showed that the PEOPLE can solve the problem the best themselves (if not so many are involved)!

It get´s tricky with anonymity and more individuals.

 

I don´t know what tools the community have to prevent fox2run "exploting the ressource PortBattle",

but you make me feel, they are somehow "limited"?

 

Maybe the Den.-Norge community should ask for government intervention (=devs) and not the player?

Edited August 26, 2016 by Wilson09

[Niagara]

You have to get use to players in PBs that are more casual or dont want to hang around in TS...

 

Its no problem in a PB to maintain formation, etc. with a few, commandos in the chat. Actually it can be better than having 25 players talking in different directions. 

 

BTW I took you on the word and bought a flag... Oddly enough a lot of you guys didnt have any problem wahtsoever joining my no TS PB... I didnt mind, though. ;-)

 

Ofc we and I assume most nations have people attending PB without TS nor any experience of PB beforehand.

 

But facing 25 experienced players with TS communications is much harder if your force is comprised of underrated ships and unexperienced captains with little or no means on communication other then the chat function.

 

And good for you, hope you had fun in that port battle.

[Wilson09]

My point here is, that such a behavior is too exclusive for me. Its like gated communities. Its not me. Public is public. And public is for all. OW is made as a public game. With public game-mechanics. If a lot of players want closed, invited PBs, then they should have the devs make it so that the buyer can invite his little club. But then there will be no idea in nations, will there?

 

fox2run has stated the problem himself:

"exclusiveness". The good PortBattle is both, either a club good and turns into a common-pool-ressource when it comes to pulling the flag.

It is a club, if there are enough players making it the desired 24 "highest-ship" Port Battle. Clans / flag carriers can ensure to "exclude"

other players. Then it is a "club". (there is nothing wrong with "clubs" fox2run). Here, the buyer of the flag should determine who enters.

Problem comes into play, if the game is "announced" or the players expect to be able to attend PortBattles (public good). No one should be

excluded from the use of a "public good" (we bought the game logic = I can do all). But PBs may not be public goods, they are club goods.

(sidestep: another problem arises, if one of players who "should not be there" enters the club (free-rider fox2run)).

 

The "flag-pulling" problem is different and happened to me in the beginning. Being ignorant, I did not realize

I had to ask clans before I pull a flag.

 

No one can prevent me from pulling a flag (private good), but it may affect others (rivalry in consumption).

Classical common-pool problem. If rivalry happens (others / clans wanted to pull a flag), we have a problem.

 

fox2run might believe "pulling" the flag is a private action, it is not.

I love this problem. How could you solve it as a regulator / dev?

 

He clearly, could destroy succesful gameplay for the Danes....we are right in the middle of social science...

Edited August 26, 2016 by Wilson09

[Skully]

I'm leaning towards marking the port battle as a Clan fight of the potential Lord Protector. That immediately defines who can enter the PB and who can not.

With the potential Lord Protector being the player who did the highest hostility contribution in the Region.

For changing the RoE stance against another Clan, an officer could file an edict.

Not that a in-Nation Clan vs Clan will ever be allowed, even when they are Hostile towards one-another. (Except the Independents.) Edited August 26, 2016 by Skully