Development plans for conquest mechanics (RVR)

[Mrdoomed]

Teleports - I like the idea of no teleports.

If we can have multiple officers - with officers being attached to the ship/fleet unless it comes back into a port, and only then being able to change officers when both ships/fleets are in the same port..

Although wrecks then need to occur within a reasonable distance of where the bottle is found...

Or what about being able to jump from port to port to " manage them" but having a cooldown of maybe an hour between acually teleporting your captian from port to port.

I dont want to see only freeports taken away because eventually pirates i think are going to e reduced to just them but a cooldown on physical teleporting and not port management would be cool and better.

[Skully]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14416-crew-management-update-discussion/?p=268614

There is nothing to be gained by removing instant avatar-TP. You are just luring yourself into a false sense of security.

What do you do when you are in an outpost where no action is and you are on a 1 hour or 4 hour timer? You quit or change to your alt.

The false sense of security was gained, because we have a low player base. In a normal or high player base, the enemy would simply call for assets to be committed towards you commanded by other players (/alts).

A player waiting on a timer, is a player not providing content.

[edit] forgot the alt bit, because that was really what was the killer

Edited August 5, 2016 by Skully

[Mrdoomed]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14416-crew-management-update-discussion/?p=268614

There is nothing to be gained by removing instant avatar-TP. You are just luring yourself into a false sense of security.

What do you do when you are in an outpost where no action is and you are on a 1 hour or 4 hour timer? You quit or change to your alt.

The false sense of security was gained, because we have a low player base. In a normal or high player base, the enemy would simply call for assets to be committed towards you commanded by other players (/alts).

A player waiting on a timer, is a player not providing content.

[edit] forgot the alt bit, because that was really what was the killer

Not sure but i think we have two completely ways of playing and two completely different ways of dealing with things.

I can tell you back when we had 1 teleport amd a 4 hour cooldown with a player base that was 1000+ down to about 200 when they changed it, i never 1 time was bored , stuck doing nothing, or at a lack of ideas. The only difference was is that i could acually use my teleport and a players hatred for me to get them stuck way far away while i wrecked havoc on his coast. Now there is zero skill to the game.

You clearly have a different way of looking at it and thats why we but heads on this subject often. As it is your side has won the argument but it sure has led directly to tons of new problems. Oh well.

[Stalwart]

Capitals could become capturable. 

-I would go the other way and make the capital region uncapturable and seed it's ports so they have all resources for building ships.

Sidenote to this : increase production in capturable ports, both shops and buildings, by 1/3rd . 

-Losing everything (when a whole nation gets crushed) will make people quit...(think fe of guys who come back after 2 months inactive and find nothing they owned  can be reached anymore)

-Forced alliances sounds like a recipe for hatred,and imploding nations, among people who have been fighting each other forever.

 

Total victory should become possible (with the map reset afterwards)

Persistency adds meaning!

If everything is fleeting and irrelevant people will lose interest much faster. 

You want to build a game where your players are invested and engaged in the game, not one where they only log in to shoot a few hours (shooter-style, they'll play X weeks/months and move on to the next)

Edited August 5, 2016 by Stalwart

[Taranis]

I like the idea, but would suggest a few tweaks: 

 

1) I don't think that players should be forced into the steamrolling zerg - but instead be given the choice upon defeat of their nation to join a different nation, play as a privateer, or join the black;

2) Players should be able to change nations without having to delete their character and starting from scratch each time;

3) It should be possible for nations to change move their capital port;

4) There should be a self balancing mechanism in play to make it incrementally harder for large nations to steamroll.  A number of people (myself included) have suggested in other posts that AI fleeting activity could help support underdog nations for instance.  One such thought would be for national fleets to attack and possibly acquire ports;

5) There needs to be a reasonable threshold set for server resets to avoid a situation where 99% of ports fall to one nation, but because there is one port left the server resets;

6) Map resets might work - provided that players don't have to re-grind all of their ships, outposts, buildings, etc....  Starting from scratch is a pain - having to do so often would certain detract from the community.

[TheAmerican]

And for the people calling for a removal of unlimited outpost teleports, clearly you must not have been here before it was implemented, or you have hours and hours to mill around waiting for something to happen (or as was mentioned have an alt account you can rely on for essentially the teleport functionality). Outpost teleports has to be the one shining example of PvP-increasing change that the devs have implemented in the last six months. Please do not remove them as it actually makes this massive world you've created accessible, and feel alive, when there are only a maximum 1000 people playing at peak time.

Been playing since the early days of sea trials m8, if you even know what those were. All I'm saying is that it's too easy, and horribly unrealistic to have instant teleports. Maybe we can have a 1 hour cool down on friendly ports, and 4 hour on free ports? Just something to actually put some meaning to a little thing I like to call TACTICS.

[Elric]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14416-crew-management-update-discussion/?p=268614

There is nothing to be gained by removing instant avatar-TP. You are just luring yourself into a false sense of security.

What do you do when you are in an outpost where no action is and you are on a 1 hour or 4 hour timer? You quit or change to your alt.

The false sense of security was gained, because we have a low player base. In a normal or high player base, the enemy would simply call for assets to be committed towards you commanded by other players (/alts).

A player waiting on a timer, is a player not providing content.

[edit] forgot the alt bit, because that was really what was the killer

 

I think it depends whether you stay in the immediate area of your region or not.  If with the new RvR rules you tend to stay within the region or not straying far from it, the teleport isn't necessary.  It also benefits the smaller nations to not have teleport as monster nations (and their unwilling subjects) are likely to be scattered far more - and would not be able to easily concentrate forces to overwhelm smaller nations.

[Hethwill]

Do whatever you wish with your Nations.

 

Leave true piracy untouched regarding character teleport please.

[Anolytic]

Do whatever you wish with your Nations.

 

Leave true piracy untouched regarding character teleport please.

If all of the proposed changes to RvR successfully slow down conquest and make ports/regions more valuable to defend, as I think they will, then my opinion is that freeports should only really be useful to pirates, and national ports should be all the more important to nationals. Pirates should be able to teleport to freetowns, nationals shouldn't. TO nationals freetowns should only be somewhere where they can sail to and trade with other nationals and with eurotraders, while also risking being raided by pirates on their way there. This will also remove the issue of nationals ganking out of freetowns by sitting in docking range and waiting for someone to try and sail to port. This behaviour will be pirate only.

Or maybe something can be done about the ganking from docking range alltogether. Maybe you the tagging/invulnerability countdown should start not from "setting sail" from the port UI, but from setting sail from docking range. So if you're sitting in docking range you have to leave and still wait 2 min before you can initiate an attack.

 

 

 

I think it depends whether you stay in the immediate area of your region or not.  If with the new RvR rules you tend to stay within the region or not straying far from it, the teleport isn't necessary.  It also benefits the smaller nations to not have teleport as monster nations (and their unwilling subjects) are likely to be scattered far more - and would not be able to easily concentrate forces to overwhelm smaller nations.

On the other hand small nations used to face a huge challenge by the teleport cooldown when attacked on two sides. I remember when Denmark-Norway was under attack by 3 nations and we had to carefully plan our teleports for the day, and often sail long distances to get to all the port battles. Black Friday put a stopper on this, and also used the teleport cooldown as a tactic as we knew that the SLRN would be engaged on another front that evening, so we would be able to concentrate on one front while not worrying about our other flank. 

 

However all of these points don't take into consideration the slow down of conquest. Even while nations can be under attack on multiple fronts, it is unlikely that hostilities will reach conquest activating levels on both fronts simultaneously. So a small nation will not have port battles on both fronts in the same day, but will be able to alternate fighting on either front. So the teleport cooldown might not be valid as a tactic anyway.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Anolytic

[Mrdoomed]

And for the people calling for a removal of unlimited outpost teleports, clearly you must not have been here before it was implemented, or you have hours and hours to mill around waiting for something to happen (or as was mentioned have an alt account you can rely on for essentially the teleport functionality). Outpost teleports has to be the one shining example of PvP-increasing change that the devs have implemented in the last six months. Please do not remove them as it actually makes this massive world you've created accessible, and feel alive, when there are only a maximum 1000 people playing at peak time.

Been playing since first week of OW mate but thanks for trying to hold my hand.

[Skully]

I think it depends whether you stay in the immediate area of your region or not.  If with the new RvR rules you tend to stay within the region or not straying far from it, the teleport isn't necessary.  It also benefits the smaller nations to not have teleport as monster nations (and their unwilling subjects) are likely to be scattered far more - and would not be able to easily concentrate forces to overwhelm smaller nations.

It really depends on how much you play and what role you want to play in.

You might want to switch regions as the time-slot changes or you may need to be part of a very long supply line.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15638-development-plans-for-conquest-mechanics-rvr/?p=292154

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15513-nation-ports-production-most-importantly-medkits/?p=289196

As a Nation gets smaller the second becomes increasingly more important to maintain.

So you might be harvesting in one minute, crafting at the shipyards next and then escorting a trader in 5 minutes later. All at outposts across the map.

Do whatever you wish with your Nations.

 

Leave true piracy untouched regarding character teleport please.

I don't see any need for an asymmetrical balancing here.

[Hethwill]

Neither do I The avatar TP is very useful but can also be a corruption of the system.

 

 

But I like how Anolytic puts it, and I suggested before. Free ports are non-aligned. Their masters feel no need to provide nationals with support, so no docks space for them while providing outlaws with safe havens and ( hopefully the Pirate havens once Raids are implemented and Pirates are worked, but another discussion entirely ).

[Skully]

However all of these points don't take into consideration the slow down of conquest. Even while nations can be under attack on multiple fronts, it is unlikely that hostilities will reach conquest activating levels on both fronts simultaneously. So a small nation will not have port battles on both fronts in the same day, but will be able to alternate fighting on either front. So the teleport cooldown might not be valid as a tactic anyway.

Characters simply can not be at two spots at the same time. So a Nation has to decide where to send everybody. I think your best option is to spread your forces around the 10 time slots (magic 10 ), but if you want to achieve initiative (and be able to open a port battle) you would need to bring in other time slot crews to tip the balance. Hence leaving another region undermanned on that time slot.

Alternatively you have a big Nation and you can make the push in that one time slot. Now you should be facing 2 regions on alternate time slots reinforced by the fallen regions crew.

Now should a Nation be capable of opening a Port Battle in an opposing time slot, you have 48 hours to prepare. Ensure your time slot crew is ready for that port battle (TP in and PB away).

At that point make a choice whether to swap crews in that region or let them be and quickly TP out your PB crew back to their frontline.

In effect each Nation should have roughly 10 regions (provided they have crews to cover) that are very hard to penetrate.

 

Neither do I The avatar TP is very useful but can also be a corruption of the system.

 

 

But I like how Anolytic puts it, and I suggested before. Free ports are non-aligned. Their masters feel no need to provide nationals with support, so no docks space for them while providing outlaws with safe havens and ( hopefully the Pirate havens once Raids are implemented and Pirates are worked, but another discussion entirely ).

I think we need to have a separate topic on Free Towns. They are both the bane and salvation of this game.  

 

I hope we never get to the ultimate victory and resetting the map.

 

I play this game for the pleasure of PVP, I don't mind seeing an alliance achieving something that will give it a momentary advantage over the others.

 

But no reset of the map please.

Excellent, this means that you'll fight for France with all the passion you can muster and go down screaming in the end... ehr ... sail to victory against the British.

But should you be conquered (or be forced into an Alliance (/ surrender)) then you your motivation to bring back the French in all its glory won't go away.

So I think you would do everything in your power to reinstate the French Nation, which should possible through two options:

• Capture as many ports as possible under British rule, then declare independence.
• Just ruffle-stomp away to bring about the map reset.

I just hope option #1 will become available in game, because living under a British Monarch demands a French Revolution.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14244-hegemony/?p=269119

Basically the game might become ephemeral, but players not wanting to lose their identity or assets will make them fight with passion to have it perpetual.

(Or the British will come up with some gentlemen's care-bear treaty sprouting their arrogance away. )

[Pugwis]

So trading will be great again!

i like that!

 

 

 

 

i'm a little worried about this, because if a new player is generated in a large nation he need to sail from the capital to the missions for hours. 

can it be only after the first rank? 

 

i ask this only because if i think like a new player with 0 gold, make a travel of hours can be frustrating. 

 

No matter at wich rank, do you think it is only frustrating for new players to sails for 2 hours ? To finaly end up ganked by outnumbering AI and players ?

This idea simply sucks, i just hope this will never make it to the game, otherwise i doubt i will keep playing it.

[Skully]

A valid point was raised on Pirate chat, I don't recall who brought it up.

What happens if ... gasp ... Mortimer Town falls?

[Vernon Merrill]

The Angels sing and the world rejoices.... ;-)

[Hethwill]

The National imigration offices must be busy actually. Corrupt Governors passing unsanctioned pardons. You know that kind of thing that happens when a ship starts to sink and all the rats are the first to jump off.

[Vernon Merrill]

I've asked the Devs for a list of IP addresses....

[Æthlstan]

If Capitals can become capturable, then, logically, capitals must be allowed to be moved. Nations should be able to choose where they want their capitals to be.

 

This could be as simple as allowing people to click a button in port "Select this port as Capital," and when 80% of active players have chosen that port as a capital, the capital will flip to the new port.

[Ratline]

There should be a cooldown brought back on teleports not a total ban.

It used to be fun to set up a quick raid to trick 50 guys to waste thier teleport to gank 2 ships then have the real navy to take a port or two.

Used to be real strategy and cunning to gameplay then. Now its just grind easy pve till top rank and teleport between ganks and pbs. ...yawn.

 

So you prefer bs gamey 'tactics' and unopposed port battles over what we have now?

[Skully]

If Capitals can become capturable, then, logically, capitals must be allowed to be moved. Nations should be able to choose where they want their capitals to be.

 

This could be as simple as allowing people to click a button in port "Select this port as Capital," and when 80% of active players have chosen that port as a capital, the capital will flip to the new port.

Capitals should be the last port to fall.

Maybe it should have a separate mechanic or maybe not? Unsure yet.

It should become a grand regional fight over all 10 time-slots.

Even if that Nation doesn't have a crew in that time-slot, other Nations and Pirates will converge and duke it out. (Picture the Southern Cuba and Haiti fights.)

All of that Nation captains should have an attempt to try their utmost last to either push out or defend to the last ship.

With the grand finale being the final Port Battle.

If we don't see that, then we need to evaluate what happened and address it with another mechanic.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Skully

[Skully]

The National imigration offices must be busy actually. Corrupt Governors passing unsanctioned pardons. You know that kind of thing that happens when a ship starts to sink and all the rats are the first to jump off.

But since switching to Pirate is a very easy affair, I would say that for now switching to a Nation should be just sailing into their capital and ask for a pardon. Nothing fancy, just as "easy" as turning Pirate.

We know no "Corrupt" Governors... 

[EricKilla]

My two cents on the whole deal:

 

Overall I like this idea. I figured it would take a while to capture ports with the proposed new system.

 

In regards to the other points:

 

Capturable Capitals: Based on my experiences as a US nation player, which has been driven to its capital twice in recent memory, I feel this is a very bad idea. Countries can easily come back from a string of hard hitting PBs. A group like what SORRY used to be, having demoralized a country, could theoretically sweep a country of its ports in a very short period of time, as they did to us, even with mechanics changes. This would leave players scrambling, unable to prepare properly to fight, and then they find themselves having lost their capital, forced to utterly capitulate. Based on what happened to the the playerbase of the US nation during both of the times we were pushed back to Charleston, the game as a whole would heavily suffer from such an arrangement. The objective should be making it harder to wipe a country off the map, not easier.

 

Total Victory: This should be only achievable if one country conquers or allies every nation in the game. Otherwise it'd just be frustrating. Being an RvR driven player myself, watching the map reset every time a small country like Denmark or Sweden got pushed back to their capital would be exceptionally frustrating, and would drive me from the game. I really like the way it is now, where the balance of power shifts and territory gradually changes hands. Don't rock the boat, y'know?

 

Not only this, but I have no idea how this would even work with outposts, resources, etc... The only way I could possibly see this working would be to do a full server wipe of ships, resources, blue prints, port ownership, etc... Also, to be frank, the economy is really stagnant and boring. This would make it even less fun to handle economy, as it'd likely break a more dynamic economy system.

 

Free ports:

 

So long as each region has a free port, I don't see the need to move them.

 

Missions:

 

I like this idea. Get the carebears out of their corner.

[Anolytic]

No matter how big a nation is, it will still only be able to put 25 ships in a port battle.

And with land in battles and new port battle win conditions and fortifications making port battles more in favour of defenders I think conquest will be slowed down significantly even though everyone will still be able to seek plenty of port battle fun. And regional conquest will work as a bottleneck forcing an invader into a known area for the smaller nation to concentrate their forces to defend (moreover everyone, including allies, will have a 24 hour warning of port battles going to happen). So I believe that actual conquest will be so slow that before a nation is pushed to their capital tides, player activity and alliances have shifted and the invader will not be able to push further. Steamrolling will be impossible and any attempt at it will be easy to block.

 

With conquest slowed down to comfortable levels a nation on a winning streak will be able to keep up the fight on multiple fronts and not feel they have to choose one nation to beat into submission before they can turn and deal with their other enemies.

 

Capitals should only be fought over after many months of determined conquest and then winning the PB for another nation's capital should give some sort of reward or respite that should suffice to feel like a proper victory for them, while the defeated nation should be very quickly able to rebuild without feeling that they were vanquished. Pretty much like now a stronger nation should feel like they totally won, while the weaker nation should feel that they didn't really loose, they just had a temporary short term setback.

[Skully]

The US situation gave little options to either side:

• Continue to troll
• Unable to reform

And thus both sides lost, because both sides quit the game.

In the new mechanic, you should be able to work your way coming back up under the "protection" of the larger Nation.

Once folks feel ready, then they declare their independence.

 

I'm very curious to see if we'll see an Aussie nation.

A week ago AUSEZ clan decided to go down with the Black Plague. We would go Pirate, live the life and see if we could take on Truxillo.

With reports coming in that the Pirates had turned to Ruatan as well, eyes were cast nervously to the east, looking for either AUSFC fleet to loom up or more Pirates out of Bonacca.

And thus Turneffe was turned over to the Spanish, but not entirely without a hitch. Not all Pirates agreed to this turnover. As the Spanish fleet sailed onto Turneffe, the diplomatic escort fleet had to convince the incoming privateers to stay clear of AUSFC waters.

Unfamiliar with the ferocious tactics of AUSFC, the US seriously underestimated their opposition. This cost them many ships in the process.

We are AUSFC and proud of it! Look at the map and think again.

Damn those Pirates, I have no mercy for them!

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15472-pirate-pirate-free-for-all-battles/

It is mine, all mine I tell you!

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15653-mine-mine-mine-mine/

 

Because this is the harsh world of 18th century Naval Action, where captains even have no sympathies for their own gods.

Leadership 1381/1100. Nuff said.

I am the best leader! Even the game accepts that as a fact.

Now flock to my banner, come to the AUSFC Empire. Serve the undying Emperor.

(Early Access) Alpha Legion, Inquisitor Skully

===

On that note, I'm off for a couple of days of holiday. Now chop, chop, paint the map black please.

I want to hear no excuses when I get back.