The Three Admirals Treaty PvP1

[Cragger]

You dont offerered anything.

 

"I have no authority to speak with you.", words of your own diplomat. Second attempt U.S. envoys waited two hours for your diplomat which never came to speak with them. Impossible to offer anything when the other party flat out refuses to speak or compromise.

 

Your nation accepted this treaty assuming it would provide you a target with no support from the coalition. What you didn't realize is that U.S. has always honored agreements with the Dutch and British and they had no intention of letting this treaty divide our partnerships.

[Lord Ravenburg]

You may note players of the Spanish Nation, that Britain has signed no truce with you. We have agreed to stop taking your ports, however we will actively assist our allies, we did not make this treaty for you to now turn your attention to the US and think that Great Britain would just let it happen.

 

Let me be very clear, Britain will not engage in the taking of your ports inside the treaty defined areas...however if you openly attack our allies you will find British ships defending our allies.

 

Pretty straight forward, we were not going to abandon the US to a one on one match with Spain. We have given you back the numerous ports as per the treaty, you want more of them, then prepare to engage in battle.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

[celtiberoGil]

Now we are deffending our harbours. We have been attacked in Cuba. Oh! as ever. Thats is the reality you are attacking us. You only fight 3v1 thats the real thing. When you are outmered then play and attack if is a equal fight dont. Yes very honorable and corageous. Spanish will no surrender even now with all your timers, high number of players, some sploits, triple alliances and traitorous treaties you dont think fullfilling. My only hope is the new patches will come. But if this will be the same i think i will play other games more balanced.

 

 

Today i have been attacked in Corrientes and Pinar del Rio and other harbours. And yes USA has been helped by YOU. Come on Let's take away the masks Take what you want and give everyone see what you are brave and loyal abusing those who are inferior to you.

Edited August 14, 2016 by celtiberoGil

[Lord Ravenburg]

Now we are deffending our harbours. We have been attacked in Cuba. Oh! as ever. Thats is the reality you are attacking us. You only fight 3v1 thats the real thing. When you are outmered then play and attack if is a equal fight dont. Yes very honorable and corageous. Spanish will no surrender even now with all your timers, high number of players, some sploits, triple alliances and traitorous treaties you dont think fullfilling. My only hope is the new patches will come. But if this will be the same i think i will play other games more balanced.

 

Britain has taken no part in the capture of your ports. Any nation who has ratified this treaty and has actively engaged in taking your ports, or assisted in taking your ports, please report to us immediately so the British Council can be notified.

 

With no evidence we will simply assume it was the US forces, which have no current treaty with you, Britain will not assist in the taking of your ports, directly or indirectly.

 

These comments are no longer on subject and will be ignored. If you are not bringing up anything in regards to the treaty, nations involved, breaches of said treaty or wishes to communicate with the councils of any of the nations involved, please take your comments elsewhere. I would suggest creating a ' We are unhappy that USA has alliances and our diplomatic agendas are terrible' thread.

I would happily fight alongside Spain if I felt their intentions and the way they treated other nations wasn't ridiculous. On PVP2 and now PVP1 the trend has been unyielding stances, terrible interpersonal dialogue and finger pointing...oh and then ludicrous demands when on the back foot.

 

You want to fight the USA with no intervention from Britain and Dutch....well....you may find you are out of Luck. Don't you have an alliance with another equally turncoat Pirate nation? France perhaps?

 

However you said Spain will not surrender, however you have in the same comment said you will leave for a more balanced game. Pray tell, in the world of MMO open world sandboxes, which game are you commenting on?

Some advice as my final comment, if you are going to play a faction based game in a totally liquid player base, don't throw the gauntlet down to every other faction then cry in a corner when no one will have tea with you.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

[EricKilla]

You dont offerered anything.

We offered for you to keep Cayo de Sal and La Anguilla with us retaining control of Cayo Vacas and Las Tortugas. This is exceedingly fair, as it secures a clean border and protects both nation's interests. We would, of course, return Cuyo and Baja if you were to accept the deal.

[celtiberoGil]

To Lord Ravenburg Ducth helped USA to take Baja. Clan ARSE and other clans made a blockade fleet to USA. And I reported it in their council.

Yes Spainsh diplomacy have and important lack there are so few player who can speak in english. I need use google translator sometimes. But english diplomatics  sometimes are arrogant too. Not only was our fault

This is my first MMO i can play other games not MMO.

 

 

 

To EricKilla: Tortuga and Cayo Vacas are mor important for us than Cayo Sal and Anguilla. You don´t offered nothing. We dont want Florida where is the trouble?

Edited August 14, 2016 by celtiberoGil

[Eldberg]

The US were not included, so we do not need to respect the Spanish boundaries quoted.

 

It was the Spanish who decided not to include us, both the British and the Dutch were more than happy to do so. Multiple different options were proposed to you, each as fair as the other, yet there was no agreement. You asked for Cayo De Sal, La Anguilla, La Tortugas and Cayo Vacas. We offered you half. You said you wanted La Tortugas and Cayo Vacas to prevent the US from attacking your northern Cuban coast in the event the agreement fails, which as we pointed out is useless as in such an event we could strike from ports that are practically the same distance. 

 

Ultimately, I waited patiently in the Spanish teamspeak for a diplomat (in your timezone playing hours), no one came to speak to me. Only days later does someone finally come to speak to me, and all they could do was listen and pass on information to your council. I gave our teamspeak details on several occasions and never heard a reply back. We will not chase after you, if you want an agreement, come to us and we can talk.

Lord Ravenburg, you may want to read the admirals treaty again. No where does it say that British or Dutch cannot assist in capturing Spanish ports, only that they cannot craft a flag. Both British and Dutch players have been screening US vs Spanish port battles, and they do so within the rules outlined by this agreement.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Stephen_Decatur

[Lord Ravenburg]

To Lord Ravenburg Ducth helped USA to take Baja. Clan ARSE and other clans made a blockade fleet to USA. And I reported it in their council.

Yes Spainsh diplomacy have and important lack there are so few player who can speak in english. I need use google translator sometimes. But english diplomatics  sometimes are arrogant too. Not only was our fault

This is my first MMO i can play other games not MMO.

 

 

 

To EricKilla: Tortuga and Cayo Vacas are mor important for us than Cayo Sal and Anguilla. You don´t offered nothing. We dont want Florida where is the trouble?

 

 

Thank you Celtibero,

Any British Council member can we please see what has happened here? Are the Dutch not honouring this agreement? To screen for an attack fleet against the territories stipulated in the treaty is a breach.

 

I will not align myself in a group treaty if all factions who have signed it are not upholding it in good faith, to the extent that I will happily organise a fleet to assist the Spanish in holding onto their territories should non authorised factions be taking place. This is not limited to; Screening, blockading, intercepting and any other action by Treaty Nations against Spanish forces to allow the US or any other faction to take ports on the Spanish mainlands.

 

Decatur, hmmm if I have read this treaty wrong then I will duly educate myself, however I will not condone these actions. If we are taking ports under the guise of USA flags then we are essentially back at square one. We are attempting to stabilise, not conquer. As my clan diplomat has gone quiet I will have to discuss this internally. Again, no ill will towards any nation present, however I will defend against aggression on USA held territories, but I will not just trade one way to take ports for another.

 

All issues with USA on Spanish forces is not my concern and I will not intervene unless my allies are directly attacked. (Ports for example)

 

Looking forward to replies from diplomats from Treaty Nations.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Lord Ravenburg

[celtiberoGil]

The US were not included, so we do not need to respect the Spanish boundaries quoted.

 

It was the Spanish who decided not to include us, both the British and the Dutch were more than happy to do so. Multiple different options were proposed to you, each as fair as the other, yet there was no agreement. You asked for Cayo De Sal, La Anguilla, La Tortugas and Cayo Vacas. We offered you half. You said you wanted La Tortugas and Cayo Vacas to prevent the US from attacking your northern Cuban coast in the event the agreement fails, which as we pointed out is useless as in such an event we could strike from ports that are practically the same distance. 

 

Ultimately, I waited patiently in the Spanish teamspeak for a diplomat (in your timezone playing hours), no one came to speak to me. Only days later does someone finally come to speak to me, and all they could do was listen and pass on information to your council. I gave our teamspeak details on several occasions and never heard a reply back. We will not chase after you, if you want an agreement, come to us and we can talk.

Lord Ravenburg, you may want to read the admirals treaty again. No where does it say that British or Dutch cannot assist in capturing Spanish ports, only that they cannot craft a flag. Both British and Dutch players have been screening US vs Spanish port battles, and they do so within the rules outlined by this agreement.

 

We sorry the spanish oficial diplomatic, celtibero Frog, is on holidays. Now Señor leñador help us in diplomacy.

[_Alucard_]

Britain has taken no part in the capture of your ports. Any nation who has ratified this treaty and has actively engaged in taking your ports, or assisted in taking your ports, please report to us immediately so the British Council can be notified.

 

With no evidence we will simply assume it was the US forces, which have no current treaty with you, Britain will not assist in the taking of your ports, directly or indirectly.

 

These comments are no longer on subject and will be ignored. If you are not bringing up anything in regards to the treaty, nations involved, breaches of said treaty or wishes to communicate with the councils of any of the nations involved, please take your comments elsewhere. I would suggest creating a ' We are unhappy that USA has alliances and our diplomatic agendas are terrible' thread.

I would happily fight alongside Spain if I felt their intentions and the way they treated other nations wasn't ridiculous. On PVP2 and now PVP1 the trend has been unyielding stances, terrible interpersonal dialogue and finger pointing...oh and then ludicrous demands when on the back foot.

 

You want to fight the USA with no intervention from Britain and Dutch....well....you may find you are out of Luck. Don't you have an alliance with another equally turncoat Pirate nation? France perhaps?

 

However you said Spain will not surrender, however you have in the same comment said you will leave for a more balanced game. Pray tell, in the world of MMO open world sandboxes, which game are you commenting on?

Some advice as my final comment, if you are going to play a faction based game in a totally liquid player base, don't throw the gauntlet down to every other faction then cry in a corner when no one will have tea with you.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

 

 

Seriously man, do you think you are God?

[Lord Ravenburg]

Seriously man, do you think you are God?

 

That was a very offhanded comment, not welcome nor received well.

 

My comments were on topic and with the understanding of the treaty. If you have nothing constructive to add, don't add it.

 

Or you could I guess, clarify your statement.

 

Sincerely,

 

Ravenburg.

[_Alucard_]

The US were not included, so we do not need to respect the Spanish boundaries quoted.

 

It was the Spanish who decided not to include us, both the British and the Dutch were more than happy to do so. Multiple different options were proposed to you, each as fair as the other, yet there was no agreement. You asked for Cayo De Sal, La Anguilla, La Tortugas and Cayo Vacas. We offered you half. You said you wanted La Tortugas and Cayo Vacas to prevent the US from attacking your northern Cuban coast in the event the agreement fails, which as we pointed out is useless as in such an event we could strike from ports that are practically the same distance. 

 

Ultimately, I waited patiently in the Spanish teamspeak for a diplomat (in your timezone playing hours), no one came to speak to me. Only days later does someone finally come to speak to me, and all they could do was listen and pass on information to your council. I gave our teamspeak details on several occasions and never heard a reply back. We will not chase after you, if you want an agreement, come to us and we can talk.

Lord Ravenburg, you may want to read the admirals treaty again. No where does it say that British or Dutch cannot assist in capturing Spanish ports, only that they cannot craft a flag. Both British and Dutch players have been screening US vs Spanish port battles, and they do so within the rules outlined by this agreement.

 

Yes, because you are so brave that you need 2 nations more to attack us knowing that those 2 will stop our flags.

One thing is clear: you don't want a 1vs1 with Spain on your own.

That's what you are telling here. 

Apart from that point all you can say is useless

[_Alucard_]

That was a very offhanded comment, not welcome nor received well.

 

My comments were on topic and with the understanding of the treaty. If you have nothing constructive to add, don't add it.

 

Or you could I guess, clarify your statement.

 

Sincerely,

 

Ravenburg.

Nothing to clarify. Serious question asked.

It's not only the content of what you say, it actually is the arrogance you use.

Read again your post and maybe you can understand my point.

[Lord Ravenburg]

Nothing to clarify. Serious question asked.

It's not only the content of what you say, it actually is the arrogance you use.

Read again your post and maybe you can understand my point.

 

Apologies that you feel that way.

 

As you are unable to provide your own justification to your comment I will consider it just forum flaming, not that I am unfamiliar.

 

I will continue to request fair and open dialogue from all parties in regards to the treaty in discussion in this thread, my opinions on how Spain has handled the situation is just solidified by the comments of Spanish players.

 

We have been told of actions from the Dutch and British Captains in the assisting of taking Spanish Ports, something I would like answers to.

 

Other than that I bid you good day.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

[_Alucard_]

The issue is clear to me. 

If we want to attack a US port, we have to deal not only with the US players, because GB and VP are helping them stopping our flags.

When we are under attack, same problem. They launch 7 flags and 3 or 4 players on each, and even VP and GB screening.

So, according to the rules we have to sit, shut up and stay calm.

 

Now, let's remember what the purpose of this treaty is. Do you see what I mean?

GB and VP don't pull flags, instead they have another nation to do that job.

In other words, this could be...bullying?

Take your time and think for a while..... Would you sit, shut up and stay calm if you were in our position?

Nothing more to add.

[Lord Ravenburg]

The issue is clear to me. 

If we want to attack a US port, we have to deal not only with the US players, because GB and VP are helping them stopping our flags.

When we are under attack, same problem. They launch 7 flags and 3 or 4 players on each, and even VP and GB screening.

So, according to the rules we have to sit, shut up and stay calm.

 

Now, let's remember what the purpose of this treaty is. Do you see what I mean?

GB and VP don't pull flags, instead they have another nation to do that job.

In other words, this could be...bullying?

Take your time and think for a while..... Would you sit, shut up and stay calm if you were in our position?

Nothing more to add.

 

 

I totally agree with your concerns, this was not meant to be what this treaty was about.

 

I too would not be silent on the matter and as you can see, am not silent on the matter. I wont agree to having a proxy nation assist in taking ports on the Spanish mainland, directly contradicts what the treaty was meant for.

 

I guess we will have to wait to see what the Nations Councils say, but this is one British Captain that doesn't agree with the port screening for the purpose of taking ports in the treaty specified areas.

 

Your concerns are legitimate and totally valid.

Please don't get my wrong however, as per our alliances we will defend ports that are attacked when able, but yes, we should not be assisting in the taking of ports from the Spanish. We can argue the diplomacy patch is out soon and none of it will matter...but it still does as trust and player interactions are still key to the game.

 

Hopefully light comes to the matter soon.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

[Eldberg]

Ravenburg, there is no where in the agreement does it say that Dutch/British cannot screen for a US force. The only thing that cannot happen is for the Dutch/British to craft flags on the Spanish in the defined area (and if they take a port from the US in a friendly exchange within that area they must return it to the Spanish).

Other than the inability to craft flags, Dutch/British are 100% able to screen on both offensive and defensive US vs Spain battles, regardless of the area. There is nothing that says otherwise.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Stephen_Decatur

[EricKilla]

I totally agree with your concerns, this was not meant to be what this treaty was about.

 

I too would not be silent on the matter and as you can see, am not silent on the matter. I wont agree to having a proxy nation assist in taking ports on the Spanish mainland, directly contradicts what the treaty was meant for.

 

I guess we will have to wait to see what the Nations Councils say, but this is one British Captain that doesn't agree with the port screening for the purpose of taking ports in the treaty specified areas.

 

Your concerns are legitimate and totally valid.

Please don't get my wrong however, as per our alliances we will defend ports that are attacked when able, but yes, we should not be assisting in the taking of ports from the Spanish. We can argue the diplomacy patch is out soon and none of it will matter...but it still does as trust and player interactions are still key to the game.

 

Hopefully light comes to the matter soon.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

 

If you can't support us, then why would GB and America be allied? Both the British and the Dutch Councils made it clear that, despite this treaty, the United States would not be left alone to fend for itself against Spain and the Pirates. Players will be players; they cannot be controlled. Anyone can randomly pull a flag or screen a port.

[Johny Reb]

I would agree with Stephen on this.

 

The simple fact is that the treaty is very well defined and it allows open ocean pvp without restriction. If this is something the Spanish can't tolerate than they should open up negotiations with their treaty partners in order to amend it. I must admit I was quite surprised that the treaty didn't contain a prohibition against screening or intercepting PB fleets as that was a request of the Spanish in our previous treaty. But what is going on in their waters right now is not the fault of the Brits or the Dutch and their honor and integrity shouldn't be impugned because of the Spanish failure to negotiate those terms. Assumptions about treaties don't trump the words of those treaties and it is for this reason that the treaty was posted in the first place for the rest of us to see.

 

As for the ports you ask for... Your request is unreasonable and shows your lack of interest in any kind of truce so we have no reason to discuss this anymore here. First, you didn't want to include us in the 3 admiral treaty. Second, you ignored our attempts to talk with you (Celtiboro Frog needs to be replaced imho. He is horrible at communication.), At a point of decline in our war, you demanded gain and not just gain but gain against ports that our two nations had agreed belonged to us before you started this war. All of this shows your disinterest in a treaty and that is fine with me. I think we are relatively evenly matched which makes for a fun fight.

[EricKilla]

I would agree with Stephen on this.

 

The simple fact is that the treaty is very well defined and it allows open ocean pvp without restriction. If this is something the Spanish can't tolerate than they should open up negotiations with their treaty partners in order to amend it. I must admit I was quite surprised that the treaty didn't contain a prohibition against screening or intercepting PB fleets as that was a request of the Spanish in our previous treaty. But what is going on in their waters right now is not the fault of the Brits or the Dutch and their honor and integrity shouldn't be impugned because of the Spanish failure to negotiate those terms. Assumptions about treaties don't trump the words of those treaties and it is for this reason that the treaty was posted in the first place for the rest of us to see.

 

As for the ports you ask for... Your request is unreasonable and shows your lack of interest in any kind of truce so we have no reason to discuss this anymore here. First, you didn't want to include us in the 3 admiral treaty. Second, you ignored our attempts to talk with you (Celtiboro Frog needs to be replaced imho. He is horrible at communication.), At a point of decline in our war, you demanded gain and not just gain but gain against ports that our two nations had agreed belonged to us before you started this war. All of this shows your disinterest in a treaty and that is fine with me. I think we are relatively evenly matched which makes for a fun fight.

 

I concur that it is a fun war, but at the same time you have folks like Alex SD going on in Global Chat about how "I'm tired of fighting Mericanos."

[Gooneybird]

You dont offerered anything.

 

You were GIVEN 13 ports by the Brits and OFFERED 2 ports by the Americans for nothing in return. This was done with the sole purpose to help your nation to get back on its feet. Almost all British clans have shown restraint and accepted the boredom in your territories to help you out and preserve the game. You don't have to; but a simple 'thank you' would have made a difference between day and night.At least stop allegations about arrogance and such; the treaty and its intent clearly void your claim.

 

As for the treaty; The treaty prevents both parties to craft flags on eachothers respective territories. The screening and PvP activities by British captains have been and are, only limited and above all, literally consistent with the three admirals treaty. If you have any problems with the content of the treaty we advise you to contact your coucil instead of complaining in here.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Gooneybird

[Lord Ravenburg]

Well, I stand corrected.

 

May I offer a suggestion to the Spanish Council, being what it is, that you immediately request an amended treaty in regards to Port Attacks on your territories. Well that's what any sane Nation would do...however as per the insults slung back and forward, I can't really say how successful you will be.

 

EricKilla, Johny and Stephen, accept my apologies, it is not my intent to stress the relationship between the USA and Britain. My concerns were towards the technicalities of a treaty that should probably have been better requested by the Spanish. We of course will, and did, defend against any Spanish aggression and will continue to do so.

 

Regards,

 

Ravenburg.

[Gooneybird]

Hi Lord Ravenburg,

 

From a personal stance; The treaty prohibits crafting flags but both you and the Spaniards have a point when claiming that, unrestricted screening activities by British captains in case of an USA attack on Spanish territory, would not be completely in the spirit of the treaty. On the other side it wouldn't be fair to deny any and all activity either. Since we have not received reports of massive screening activities by Brit captains, the British council leaves it up to the individual British captains to work with this situation in a fair and balanced way and not to make internal requests.

 

British Captains/Clans are however encouraged to fully support the USA in case of attacks on USA ports by Spaniards and/or Pirates.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Gooneybird

[celtiberoGil]

To de USA captiains who says the treaty not says anything about attack Cuba helped by British and Ducth:

 

G )    Open world Pvp between the 3 signee nations is available in every portion of the map. Blockade fleets are not PVP thas was the justify of ducth to declare war against spain.

 

 

 

I )    The line which connects the Spanish ports of Santa Maria, Cocodrillo, and Corrientes, and all other ports in Cuba which sit north of it, are de- facto Spanish territories. The port of Trinidad will revert to Spanish control per this agreement. Baja its in north of Cuba and Dutch fleet helped US to take it.

[ajffighter86]

I say this purely from a gameplay standpoint and not a diplomatic standpoint, but I have concerns about the coming diplomacy patch. If two of the most powerful nations can form alliances, I think we are in for some serious problems. Do not mistake this as me looking to make an argument, but rather just allow me to voice these concerns.

 

There is little incentive for anyone to ally with Spain at the moment. Between the US, Dutch, and British, they are wholly surrounded. However there is a lot of incentive to want to be allied with the strongest nation on the server, which I assume to be the British at this point.

 

And we have seen from the disappearance of many French and Danish players, that when a nation's morale is too low, the active player count follows the decline. Granted, much of the disappointment and break-taking has been over port battle mechanics and I hope to see many players return when the PB re-work patch releases.

 

Perhaps, there should be some incentive (xp, gold, maybe?) to form alliances with weaker (no offense with the term) nations. Nothing game-breaking, maybe a 10% bonus. This will tempt voters in nations to vote for those less appealing alliances, rather than just make sure they're on the winning team's side. Perhaps some civil strife might ensue, of course. We have seen from the dutch faction that getting an entire nation to agree to terms is not easy, and I sense there are some disgruntled captains in Spain (I always admire a fighting spirit from an underdog, though, regardless of faction). This might place a burden on the developers, I'm sure, as they'd have to code some way to track current power and active players per faction day-to-day, or perhaps at least a weekly basis.

 

But take my suggestion as just scribbling ideas on a napkin. And perhaps this thread is not the best place to discuss this, but it has been my experience since I picked up the game, that heavily unbalanced match-ups are not particularly interesting for either side, boredom follows, and players lose interest. I completely understand the motive for this treaty, to give spain time to get back on it's feet, but with the distance and/or absence of former Danish and French allies, it will still be 3-v-1 when the treaty is broken again. And serious question, but is it any more fun for Spanish players to feel compelled to follow these treaties as it would be for the Brit/Amero/Dutch alliance to park right outside of la Habana every day? Some players WANT to fight, regardless of the odds.

 

I am curious to hear a direct answer from Spanish players: Are you benefiting at all from this truce? Rebuilding? If not, then we should ask if we are doing more harm than good with this treaty, if it has stifled the action for nothing.

 

It was a lot of fun when the dutch, pirates, british, and spanish were brawling in the channel between Cuba and Haiti, but once that scale had been tipped too heavily in one side's favor, one of the server's hottest PVP zones cooled down considerably.

 

As an American player—again, not speaking diplomatically here, but just good ole gameplay (I can hear war drums beating already, lol)—I would actually enjoy the idea of a good-sporting fight against british or dutch from time to time, but I fear that with all these treaties, people have become too ingrained with their habits of assisting one another to manage such a contest, and my concern is that the diplomacy patch will only exacerbate the issue.

 

Have we accidentally created a system where alliances are de-facto permanent and probably detrimental to overall server gameplay? I hope not.

Edited August 15, 2016 by ajffighter86