Forthcoming patch with new perks and other changes.

[Kanay]

10. Using national chat in the open world and in the battle

This is possible already , ctrl+click on the little icon here : 

 

 

It will then show the chat as in OW with Nation channel etc 

[Mike Hawk]

This is possible already , ctrl+click on the little icon here : 

 

 

It will then show the chat as in OW with Nation channel etc 

 

My friend I know this. And this is cheat because you can inform all the world about type of ships, their cannons and apr. wood during the battle, as well as who's going to leave the battle and when.

[fox2run]

I am looking forward to that, it may take gunnery in terms of efficiency a notch to boarding again. If i understood that correctly, only penetrating hits will influence your crew in any way.

 

Imho this will give the crew the importance, it deserves instead of being a mere number at the bottom left of the screen.

 

But SoulPYTHONs question is more interesting to me: may the wood type the ship is made of have influence on that in terms of generating splinters?

 

 

 

There is no autokill. IF a shot penetrates, it will affect the crew IF it hits --> wounded, morale drop, scared, dead, unwilling to fight.

 

turboedit: morale drop/fear/wounded were not considered imho, yet.

But still - only one guy per ball... a bit... unrealistic... and predictable

[Stilgar]

Changes to acc/dec sound very promising indeed. Looking forward to all that.

 

I am not sure about the "keep all in battle" magic button. It might make some sense if it has a temporary effect (3-5 mins) and a reasonably long cool down or just single use.

 

As for one-kill-per-ball discussion, with proper sailing and keeping the distance number of balls penetrating will be moderate as will casualties to crew. However, I suppose would make sense to attach to casualties a probability factor to account for slight injuries and perhaps differentiate casualties from different calibers.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Stilgar

[Kanay]

My friend I know this. And this is cheat because you can inform all the world about type of ships, their cannons and apr. wood during the battle, as well as who's going to leave the battle and when.

 

How is that a cheat when it's part of the game possibilities ? and how different it is from guys using TS voice comms with them teammates inside battle and reporting all intel in Nation chat ? 

 

 

 

But still - only one guy per ball... a bit... unrealistic... and predictable

You can already get up to 3 crew killed with a single ball of 6pd shot at the stern of ships right now

[Mike Hawk]

How is that a cheat when it's part of the game possibilities ? and how different it is from guys using TS voice comms with them teammates inside battle and reporting all intel in Nation chat ? 

 

 

You can also use phone and mail but time matters.

You argued one of the issues, can I consider you agree with others or you just didn't pay attention?

[B4N4N4J0E]

I am very sceptic about 3.)

 

I might test it and make myself an opinion. Maybe I like it, maybe it's awesome.

 

But, pls devs keep in mind:

 

The combat mechanics are pretty good as they are.

If it's an significant improvement, which a great majority of players is happy about - I am fine with it, too. 

If it's too controversal and many players don't like it, pls skip it!

Don't risk losing players, they are very sensitive when it comes to battle mechanics as previous patches have shown.

[admin]

I am very sceptic about 3.)

 

I might test it and make myself an opinion. Maybe I like it, maybe it's awesome.

 

But, pls devs keep in mind:

 

The combat mechanics are pretty good as they are.

If it's an significant improvement, which a great majority of players is happy about - I am fine with it, too. 

If it's too controversal and many players don't like it, pls skip it!

Don't risk losing players, they are very sensitive when it comes to battle mechanics as previous patches have shown.

 

thats why crew changes (if they happen) will be first tested on a testbed (not live)

[victor]

may I suggest to give a free perk reset option at least for a limited time?

Edited July 27, 2016 by victor

[Tyrdael]

may I suggest to give a free perk reset option at least for a limited time?

 

Read back in the thread,iirc that was confirmed.

 

For 1 shot 1 casualty: lets wait for the testing, i like it in terms of balancing out the potential crew/morale/whatever damage. If you keep the 0-3-x range of killing crew + the adjacent giving up because of cowardness you will have even more one hit fights.

 

In combination with the leaking issue that would take away the most appealing thing for me personally, the raging fights over more than avg. 8 minutes (like some other games)

Edited July 27, 2016 by Tyrdael

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

 I think i've first misunderstood the one-shot one-crew thing, i was thinking that right now, a bug is making impossible to kill more than one crew per ball, and you are making it possible to kill more than one if the ball hit multiple crew hitbox,

 But in fact, you are telling us that right now in game, a ball can hit a crew hitbox, but not kill him, and that you are testing a minimum of one crew loss per ball if hit.

 And that it will implies that the crew, hitted by a ball, but who was previously considered as not dead, will now be out of combat, but not necessary dead loss (injured with possible post battle recovery) 

 

Am i right ?

 

 If so i think it's great.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Tyrdael]

Certain incapacitation, thats how i understood it, too.

[gorven]

While I believe these changes are great where is the new content to keep people playing, As in last patch that included fishing brought back hundreds of players. Now after a few weeks of high pop times pop is dwindling down again. Please devs give us some new content.

[312_JS]

Sounds lovely. Thanks.

Can't wait for the test bed, I like the idea, let's see how it plays.

[Cmdr RideZ]

I like #1 and #2.  Especially I really like the #2.  It can be that the #1 should be for all, but with a perk you get a bigger radius.

 

#3, I kinda like, but I also do hate it...

Maybe 2 to stern or 4-5 to side, is overkill.

 

The 1st hit and 2nd will define already the battle, as the other person will have issues with the crew after that.  This system wont allow even 1 mistake, and makes prepared perk to be pretty much mandatory.  I like skill based games, but this is next to fps game.  Both will camp to get a good hit, they sail and sail, just to get a good one.

 

Remember that the ships are also more maneuverable in the game.  So as brutal combat as suggested, probably wont work.  There is a lot more stern hits in the game, than would be irl, well, at least I have understood so.

 

You could increase casualties still, so that it gets harder and harder, slowly but faster than now, but not with 4 broadsides.  This way the players would need to learn to manage their ship with low crew as well.  Atm. it goes lower and will affect to the handling, but maybe it could affect even more.  Even fights could end situation where it really gets hard, and well hit broadsides will matter more and more.

 

I liked the damage model that was realistic, and most balls did not penetrate etc.  Because in this case you really had to try to get good broadsides.  Most people did not like it, and I think the current system is ok as well.  So this new crew suggestion is hardcore, maybe a bit too much indeed.

 

Also less men you have on board, smaller is the change to hit a crew member.

 

Increase the casualties X%, and then test it.

 

Right now I think "Crew Space" is mostly not as good as "Build Strength".  If the combat gets more lethal, CS will get better and better.  CS maybe could be like 6-9% with the current system, 5 is maybe not enough to make it equal with the BS.  If the battles will end in the future before the sides are off, CS will be a lot better than it is atm.

 

Also you may have to rebalance the crew/medkits for this one.

 

 

I would not go forward with #3, high change that it wont work.  Increasing casualties, a decent, reasonable amount, that probably would be ok.

 

 

edit.

 

Read later about the shocked men.  This might work better than just pure kills.

 

Needs also rebalancing for cannons.  Long cannons will be mandatory after #3.

 

I see no go for #3, absolutely too brutal and game changing.

 

I believe PvE needs rebalancing after this.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Cmdr RideZ

[Kanay]

You can also use phone and mail but time matters.

You argued one of the issues, can I consider you agree with others or you just didn't pay attention?

 

Most of those have been discussed in various topics around the forum but if it pleases you i will do then probably stop responding as it's getting way off topic  : 

 

(Traders issues)

 

Dear Developers

 

Should we expect any changes on the following core issues:

 

1. Speed of traders and weight of their cargo  When warships will follow same rules and won't have infinite ammos and powder loaded potentially making them able to engage dozen and dozen of fights, shooting hundred of ammos at sails without having to enter a port once, i can shoot 700 shots at sails in a combat, then do the same in the next one and so on ... A trader gets the same speed while full or with one fish or empty right now ...

 

2. Possibility to make evasive tag for traders  Same as my previous post, no matter if trader or warship, the one pressing attack button stays locked in battle for 10minutes, all traders are slower than them gunned counterparts, no problems to catch them, and they have the armor of a ship of inferior class while having less guns, a indiaman getting the armor of a 5th rate for example

 

3. Possibility of immediate dropping cargo by traders Discussed in another thread too, won't type all here, needs to be progressive , possible to start in OW and continue in battle to gain a bit of speed progressively doing this, a good part of the crew needed to be assigned to this task too

 

4. Immune from boarding due to Determined defender  Same answer as for warships : destroy stern, kill the crew , don't expect a 4 minutes battle even if it's a trader, outside a cutter or lynx where you can grape it without removing the armor and kill all crew in 2 broadsides and not even have to board or then capture it. Want to board ships? work for it, destroy the stern, and reduce the crew, it's easy enough as it is with traders ...

 

5. Quantity of cities to hide for a trader  ??? Can we talk about pirates attacking each others to avoid battles when chased too ?

 

6. Fleets of traders, I mean defensive advantage of them ??? What is the issue there when hunter can get some too and all traders are slower and weaker than them gunned counterparts ?? 

 

7. BR failure when attacking a trader covered by Santi  Get a higher BR ship in your fleet too ... But for me you should not be able to have a fleet ship of higher rank than the main ship anyways, barely using fleets myself , but i saw pirates trader cutters escorted by 2 connies for example ... shouldn't be possible.

 

8. Recognizing a flag and name in open world  Asked by many, me included since a while too 

 

9. Sitting "in the window" after the battle  Big issue atm waiting for a fix like for silly def tag 

 

10. Using national chat in the open world and in the battle No issues with this 

 

You just want to make trader more defenseless and even more easy to get than they are now ... they are weaker & slower than them counterparts armed ships, getting less armor protection then them counterparts same class ships, they have less guns and are already more than easy to hunt as it is, what more is needed ? Press attack button and get an automatic win ?

 

A simple cutter can kill the entire crew of a cutter or lynx and even brig trader without having to reduce the armor first, just shooting the deck to clean it up quickly with 10+ kills possible in a single unload then you get awarded of the ship + loot without having to board and capture it, just need to exit battle, without having to shoot the sails or hull during the match, just using grape , just get close to it and shoot the crew while he can't even shoot back ...

 

It is easy too with bigger traders as they are weaker in armor, slower and less gunned than them counterparts, go check the armor of an indiaman and compare it with a frigate or belle poule for example ... Traders are already free meat for anyone having two brain cells working together in this game , no need to put them more at disadvantage ... really not ...

[victor]

Read back in the thread,iirc that was confirmed.

 

 

what I read in the OT is "to reallocate perks a temporary reset button is added (costs 3 officer levels)" ...so it's not free, but it costs three officer levels.

Edited July 27, 2016 by victor

[Ned Loe]

Don't consider casualties kills. 

Also you actually have to hit properly (its not just blind click = kill)

 

It is not - shoot 69 shots anywhere get 69 kills like you described

 

its more

Santi fires at Victory

69 shots penetrate in the right place (thats important) at proper angle

If 69 shots penetrate and ball and splinters hit the crew (they can miss crew)you have 69 or more men not willing to fight (dead, wounded, or broken or routed for multiple reasons)

 

 

TLDR So if you equip 4lb you are dead = no penetration = no crew loss. When did you shoot at Santi with 4lb last time?

 

 

If you position your ship right you can avoid this. If enemy makes mistakes you can finish the battle and get him surrender in just 3-5 broadsides. But thats if you can position yourself properly. 

First proper shot in also counts as it can be decisive. So just rushing in without thinking (especially for gankers in faster weaker ships) can be immediately devastating

Bring it to test. I think it's too early to discuss something that we haven't tried. If I master a perfect rake/accurate broadside I should be able to kill an enemy/player in 5 broadsides if executed correctly. Why not? 

 

Ever considered placing critical hit area (for each ship in a different section) - wow citadels. This means all that you said above will only work if player hits that certain part of the ship. In our case it can be a thin line just above gun ports for every deck. This means if 50 shots hit that thin line and penetrated,  50 crew will be killed. Unfortunately if such critical crew kill shots are allowed you must bring crew recovery skill for at least 50% of all wounded (killed) crew to keep the game rolling and players entertained.

 

New perks can be added that lower critical hit risk etc.

[Kanay]

what I read in the OT is "to reallocate perks a temporary reset button is added (costs 3 officer levels)" ...so it's not free, but it costs three officer levels.

 

Last 3 levels need 3000, 4000, 5000 officer xp , officer xp is half the xp you get out of combats or travelling, so they need 6000, 8000, 10000 normal xp for the last 3 levels, grinding all this again is a pain ... 

[Hethwill]

Wow. Just wow. The sailing changes make my day reading this.

[Osopardo]

I noticed that you spoke of one shot will equal one crew minimum dead. Several questions come to mind. One does the shot have to penetrate do do the damage. Does the aiming point you shoot at have an effect to the crew, if i shoot at the waterline to cause leaks does it kill crew; if i shoot chain at sails does it kill extra crew; how does this affect grape? If i shoot at the deck of a ship preparing to board me does this kill extra crew and does grape have an greater effect?

[Smithy]

regarding defensive tagging. I think the engagement circle and the timer to battle start should be halved. this will make last second maneuvers possible to avoid battle altogether but also rids the defensive tagging since the ships will have to be closer to begin with. as it is you can barely, if at all, make it out of the circle in 20 seconds when engaged and thats going away from a stopped ship

Edited July 27, 2016 by Smithy

[akd]

There are multiple issues that this perk will cause - for example this perk + Rattlesnake can keep, for example, a 1st rate in combat for forever for greefing purpose - tag and just tail him for an hour in the battle. After battle is over repeat.

The bigger problem is that we seem to be fixing universal issues with optional perks. I do not understand that.

Very glad to hear ships will be less slippery upwind. Does this change include a reduction to jib / staysail force? I am very tired of watching square-rig ships runaway into the wind (45° or even less, totally impossible in reality).

[Elmarby]

3) Cannonball damage to crew

 

If you do this, and I hope you water this down some instead, you HAVE to reduce crew costs.

Getting in to any fight would be ridiculously costly and would get in the way of players actually going out and having fun.

[Prater]

If you do this, and I hope you water this down some instead, you HAVE to reduce crew costs.

Getting in to any fight would be ridiculously costly and would get in the way of players actually going out and having fun.

 

You didn't read admin's responses to concerns about this.  That's why they said on the dev test server they were surrendering quicker than normal.  For some reason people still like to fight even after they've lost 50% crew.  People need to learn to surrender before then.  If you are taking 50% crew casualties, it is likely you aren't going to win.  Also, this is why we are testing on a test server first.