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Food supplies - advanced warning


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Thank you Captain

So i suggest to all who want to refill the food in the ship every 6 months to answer honestly (ship could carry up to 6 months of supply)

 

What is a chance that you will lose all 5 durabilities during 60 hours?

And do you really think we should waste man months to code something that will be clicked once every 60 hours?

If we do provisions realistically it becomes a fake feature (average hours in game for an average player is 19 hours during last 2 weeks)

This means an average player wont even use it. You will also not use it once in a month if you play 2 hours per day EVERY DA. So whats the point and why the disappointment?

 

in our design provisions serve one purpose -

  • bring maintenance of line ships to their historically appropriate levels
  • and provide more options for traders, crafters and fishers.

so we make ship builders supply the ship for you 60 hour journey with food (in addition to everything else)

that's it

 

because to our opinion its not fun to return somewhere to just click a button (i now have the same view on repair kits - which just force you to return to port to click a button) there is no strategy there

 

We suggest to all disappointed captains to check the math again - maybe me and darby missed something

  1. and instead of feeling disappointed to actually provide SOUND arguments to counter our logic 
  2. and provide ideas on making provisions fun 
  3. and explain why should i come back to port once every unrealistic _____ insert days at sea here to click a button
  4. also explain why food should not be eaten when i log off
  5. and maybe explain why keep double standards and not implement medicine, powder, cannoballs, chainshot,  forcing you to probably sail less constantly returning to ports after a series of good fights
  6. why don't we also split repairs into planks, plugs and sails.. and actually make you repair constantly while you have those supplies ?

 

Nuff said

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LanderD, from the devs post

 

Thanks Hethwill, I got confused by the fact that you could buy them everywhere (as like repair kits). The dev's trying to say that they'll add them to the crafting recipe, so the provisions are "build in" as the devs say 6 months translated to real life hours is far longer than the average lifespan of a ship in this game. So it would be pointless implementing the feature if it is never going to be used. With the you can buy it everywhere, they actualy mean you don't need to look for a port and get them there....

 

The pieces are comming together, the way it was written down got me confused.

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We suggest to all disappointed captains to check the math again - maybe me and darby missed something

  1. and instead of feeling disappointed to actually provide SOUND arguments to counter our logic 
  2. and provide ideas on making provisions fun 
  3. and explain why should i come back to port once every unrealistic _____ insert days at sea here to click a button
  4. also explain why food should not be eaten when i log off
  5. and maybe explain why keep double standards and not implement medicine, powder, cannoballs, chainshot,  forcing you to probably sail less constantly returning to ports after a series of good fights
  6. why don't we also split repairs into planks, plugs and sails.. and actually make you repair constantly while you have those supplies ?

 

always up for a challenge ;-)

1. If the argument is that we need to add maintenance to ship cost, and as stated before, be somewhat historical, that means provisions cost could be 90% of the ship cost so provisions will be very expensive to craft, and people who will do it become very rich and then you get more inflation and even though ship price will sky rocket you still will get people who are gonna be making tons of money. The slow down of the crafting process with those added provisions will also jack up the price. So crafter will become richer and fighting captain will become poorer. That of course is if there actual trading, If anything is done in clan, price will be irrelevant as it will work in a close loop. If the intended goal is to create a money sink, I would make provision crafter having to sell to port, and buyer of ship by provision from the port, both at a fix price. Then that would work as tax, and a money sink

2.Instead of making provision part of the blue print, and if we dont want to go the way similar to repair kit, I would make them exclusevely traded through port, Crafting of ship would remain as it is. We would get a new recipe for provisions, those provisions would be sold exclusively to port at a fixed price. Buyer of ship would also need to buy provision from port, you can make the difference between the two price quite high so this money is removed from they system. Provision would not be transferable with ship ownership via player to player. That provision purchase could be a one shot deal for as long you own the ship.

3.How many player actually remain at sea for 60 hours in real time. The fact that it can be done doesn`t not mean it is. You have the data.

4.Moot point, tons of stuff don`t really happen either and no one complain. We dont have deserter, our crew magically reappar etc. If provision would become consummable i think we can come to the conclusion that in this pararel universe, my ship does not exist when i log off.

5. I think in the grand scheme of things supply should play a role in conquest and planning. Why do we have such a big map? In reality the only person who do not return to port are lone wolf preying on traders. We have to be close to a port to create a flag, so we basically cannot hop around the map. If supply and flag creation would somehow be tied, how about a way to create a flag from a fleet at sea.

6. Why not, I tought the idea of repair kit is to actually simulate those supplies. You mentionned you want to remove them as a consummable. personally i like the idea of either choosing to repair at sea for high cost or go to port for cheaper repair.

 

I find it odd, that it was propose some where else that we would have to actually sail capture ship back to port. and manage the crew, but provisions somehow become too much of a time sink .

 

Anyway i hope my comments were seen as constructive. keep up the good work

Edited by ulysse77
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Ultimately, I agree that having a 1-time "buy-in" provision over a resupply style of deal is better, otherwise it would be the same as repairs, where you'd be sailing back into port every chance you had just to restock on provisions. It's incredibly tedious, and what's more is that it could adversely affect exploration: people would not wan't to sail far away from ports due to the fear of running out of provisions.

 

However, there could be room to implement a system where running out of provisions would be possible: however it would be based solely on the "Days at sea" counter perhaps? Sail longer than X amount of days and rations get smaller, affecting crew morale, possibly raising the possibility of mutiny. Sail X+Y amount of days and you run out of provisions, greatly reducing morale and drastically increasing the likelihood of mutiny. Once you "lose" your provisions, only then will you have to replace them.

 

Furthermore, there could be different types of provisions:

  • Standard provisions: These are your everyday provisions: Hardtack, Salted Beef, etc. These are available at ports and craftable.
  • Luxury/Captain/Officer Provisions: These are high-class provisions, containing such amenities such as fine wine, various meats, etc. These are required by individuals of higher standards, such as nobles or very high ranking officers
  • Scavenged provisions: These are provisions that are gathered by other means. These include freshly caught fish and seafood, native island fruits and trapped animals. These are a bit harder to come by, and have varying affect on the crew (more fruit may increase their health, however local sicknesses may start an epidemic)
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And do you really think we should waste man months to code something that will be clicked once every 60 hours?

If we do provisions realistically it becomes a fake feature (average hours in game for an average player is 19 hours during last 2 weeks)

This means an average player wont even use it. You will also not use it once in a month if you play 2 hours per day EVERY DA. So whats the point and why the disappointment?

 

We suggest to all disappointed captains to check the math again - maybe me and darby missed something.

 

I had no idea that it would take that long to code a diminishing food feature into the game.  Also had no idea that a lynx or a cutter carried 6 months worth of food.  I'd mistakenly imagined that small ships that sailed around the Caribbean carried a few weeks of food.   I'a also imagined that the larger ships were floating self contained fortresses that could last many months without resupply but incurred huge costs when they did so.  Your arithmetic breakdown is enlightening and if the average player will not require food ever, then there is no point adding the feature.  Personally I wouldn't want to create a fake feature where provision are consumed in a silly accelerated fashion just to artificially create a need.

 

In regard to the other points 

  1. and instead of feeling disappointed to actually provide SOUND arguments to counter our logic 
  2. and provide ideas on making provisions fun 
  3. also explain why food should not be eaten when i log off
  4. and maybe explain why keep double standards and not implement medicine, powder, cannoballs, chainshot,  forcing you to probably sail less constantly returning to ports after a series of good fights
  5. why don't we also split repairs into planks, plugs and sails.. and actually make you repair constantly while you have those supplies 

It's a little difficult to provide objective feedback in the context of these points.  The items are all based on various subjective opinions of fun.  It's renders down to personal taste. Some players may enjoy many (or all) of the features you point out, especially if players could toggle their application from manual to automatic.  But any arguments are moot ... as you said the average player will never use the feature.

 

I know it's illogical, I'm still disappointed..   But it would be ineffective to waste months of development to code something that is not used. I'll get over it.

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I like this as long as it doesn't mean I have to hop around for half an hour every time when I wanna sail out just to get all the crew / food / etc. supplies done. This would not feel like real "Naval Action".

Did you even read the post ?

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I would say that just because a player enters port foes not mean he or she stays long enough to replenish water or food. Eventually all players would have to replenish food and water. This would perhaps prevent small cutters from being used to sail all the way across the map at no risk.

You should also have to replenish green food more often to keep crew healthy and at peak efficiency. Green food would be user up in the first few weeks. I would further suggest that not every port has an easily accessible water source?

 

 

I would further suggest that food is capturabel.

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I see this as just adding more time expense to craft a ship, but then there's the part about ways to provision the ship that will be cheaper to players, so what does that mean? Someone needs a food farm of some kind? So, maybe we are losing some production of other resources to make food? I see some potential that this slows down ship production and adds, what? Doesn't seem like an enhancement to me.

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So this likes it'll potentially slow ship production (a good thing?) and increase the number of goods in the economy and smoothing out prices so all the value isn't all tied up in a few resources (again a good thing?). But besides that I'm not understanding what major benefits this brings to the game. TBH ship role/variety would be improved more by additional player motivated traffic and ship diversity, but that's another discussion altogether...

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If I get it right, food supplies as intended to be implemented will add an activity in OW (fishing), which is a great thing as :

- it'll contribute to non-combat gameplay

- and will populate OW with preys, a must have as it'll enhance OW PvP.

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If we are to have yet another drain on labor hours, we need them to replenish faster, and have higher labor hour limits.

As a trader primarily, crafter 2nd (when Im not out supporting PBs), I am dirt poor as it is. I dont have the time to get all my resources to market, and all my profit goes into buying labor hours from other people so I can build a ship every 2 days instead of once a week. Adding yet another drain on crafting hours makes that even more difficult.

I dont use the market to buy supplies because people are getting 1000% profits off of things even when you factor in their labor hours. You could call these greedy players, or maybe they just dont have enough time and labor hours to make selling goods at reasonable prices worth their while.

Things arent working as designed. If crafters bought all their materials from the market theyd go broke. Because honestly, the expensive ships take forever to sell. Hell, even my cheap exceptionals take forever to sell.

Edited by Æthlstan
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Would these provisions be tied into certain national resources (iberian meat, indian tea, danish beer, etc)? If so could they potentially give a bonus if provisions are eventually tied to morale? Also, are there any plans to make powder a craftable upgrade with the different levels of quality potentially affecting range/penetration (velocity of the projectile)?

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I don't see much wrong with the feature as stated in the OP; but I don't see much benefit either.  Granted I'm a PvPer first and a crafter second; I currently have no problem keeping myself afloat by building my own ships, and if they become some percentage more expensive (either in labour hours or economic cost) I still don't see that affecting my gameplay.

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I feel like food supplies and repair kits could both go the same direction:

Less like a "1 big chunk" and more like a bar that starts off full and may need to be refilled, perhaps automatically, acting as an operating expense.

 

e.g., you have enough food for 120 days of sailing. 6 days of sailing is quite a lot distance in game but after that 6 days you might pull into port and pay a "docking fee" that automatically refills your food for that lost 6 days.

 

Similarly, maybe every time you pop out of a battle your ship automatically consumes repairs to put the ship back to 100%. Like food, this is just a bar that empties during use and gets refilled for a fee when you dock.

 

You don't "buy food" or "buy repair kits", exactly -- it's just a fee you pay automatically on docking which refills the bars.

 

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Pretty disappointed, it's not as if there's much management to do in its current state, and could make for some interesting scenarios (e.g. engaging fleets despite being outmatched because they've been out for a long time, traders might have to plan routes instead of just dashing through large stretches of water, OW decisions about whether to push on or resupply e.t.c.). Similar to what crew loss and management will hopefully bring to the table - some more dynamic fleet compositions of fresh/weakened/captured ships instead of the current state in which the outcome of a battle is almost predetermined.

 

Meanwhile, I doubt it'd be tedious since for the less exciting parts of the game - for example mission-running - you end up going back to ports quite regularly to get new missions already, so it's not as if it's a hassle to resupply. Perhaps even exploration upgrades that extend the food supply for long excursions at the cost of upgrade slots.

 

Unless the food acquiring is some fun and novel activity (god forbid that it's just a heap of production buildings and labour hour sinks) it'll end up just being yet another crafting item of no interest. 

 

Edit - then again, since that seems to be the spirit of the game lately, people would probably just do junk like re-tagging fleets at max range until they starve and whatnot. *sigh*

 

This is an interesting outlook on how provisions, in combination with the crew loss/management could have provided that dynamic battle-condition and help prevent battle conditions which are decided before the first shot is even fired.  I, too, would like to see such a game where each ship's potential/ability is ever-changing depending on several variables, not just a predetermined stat that is fixed upon crafting completion.

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This is a welcome feature and i fail to see why so many of ya fail to see the benefits and steps forward it brings other then the ones admin stated:

1.you will prolly get a few new production buildings

2.Fishing anybody?

3.smaller  fast coastal ships that are used for tagging wont be able to travel or give chase for days (at least i hope once more ships are in)

4.It is a nice money sink and i hope 1 of many once crew managment comes in since we really can earn a crap load of money in PVE only and prices are off for months

 

I have a feeling that a certain % of the "active" forum members would talk shit even if admin posted the bloody Nimitz was given to us..

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Wait was it not something else planned a few months back in a post?i am aware what is stated now but i have taken it as placeholder for somethign similar to a consumable that sounds better in my opinion since it does open a few new features and people still wont need to sail to ports too often

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I have the flu so my lovelieness filter is low.

 

This seems a bit crap. Why would you 'build' provisions in.

 

Do it betterer !!

 

Crafter perhaps can 'add an OPTIONAL' extra component (need more of these) such as "Additional Provision Store" or some such, advanced galley etc.

Then you need to BUY provisions for your ship as a consumable that goes down after X days at sea, as you come close to your 'max' distance with provisions, you go to rations and start to get attrition until you eventually hit starvation where you get LOTS of attrition.

 

Now all this assumes we want 'food' as part of the game...which in itself is an interesting thing...could be seen as 'fuel'...could be seen as non-fun-adding-realism.

 

Of course if a provisioned ship had 'basic rations (gruel n salted pork)' versus medium rations 'gruel, fish and salted beef' versus deluxe rations 'biscuits, fish, poultry and pigs' with perhaps a 'cook' officer and this had some tangible effect on the crew's moral and performance...well NOW we are talking...

 

IRL sailors could bring on chickens and the like to be slaughtered with their 'mess' for food.

 

So...in my non cotton wool fluffy bunny dolphin speaks...do it properly or don't do it at all !

Edited by Jeheil
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Seems like provisions should be looked at as a platform for future content and/or a way to influence OW mechanics, not as a stand alone feature, otherwise it seems a bit superfluous. But thats just my take on things.

Edited by Potemkin
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I have no problem with BP

But if ppl prefer consumables that can work too.

Provisions and Repair Kits, player made, scaled to ship rate with option to autoequip at berthing, similar to world of tanks, to minimize micromanagement.

 

Any ot these CAN work. They WILL promote OW activity and player interdependence.

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