Hotfix 9.83 Patch notes

[Jack Frost]

In my experience, you can demast pretty much any first or secondrate in a connie, in 2-3 broadsides. (using carro&medium loadout). All you have to do is get close and get a couple of stern/bow mast broadsides. I'm wondering if sol's can actually demast eachother in 1 broadside at close range with the current damage moddel.

 

I like that mast don't go down at range, but maybe make them just a little more tanky for the brawls. As it is people are still gunning for masts and genrally not using chain unesless they cannot penetrate the masts. I would like to see chain being used more often instead of always demasting.

[Pada]

I agree with Jack here, masts fall to easy. Maybe change the Mast HP back to how it was before 5.0 but keep the penetration values?

[admin]

I agree with Jack here, masts fall to easy. Maybe change the Mast HP back to how it was before 5.0 but keep the penetration values?

 

you mean like it was in 9.8

[Pada]

I mean how it was before 9.8, how it was in the old damage model. But only the HP and keep the penetration how it is now.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Pada

[admin]

I mean how it was before 9.8, how it was in the old damage model.

masts were falling right and left before 9.8

it is in 9.8 they became old hard to break ironsides

and were toned town in 9.81

[Pada]

Yes i remember now. But before 9.8 it was not as bad as it is now.
Made some testing earlier in a Rear admiral mission, Bellona vs Vic. Managed to fully dismast him with 4 broadsides (bowsprit not counted in).

[admin]

we think that current masts are weak and need to be buffed.

in pvp battles i have seen people just go straight for the masts and do nothing else. Dominant strategies like that should not exist as all three options must be viable (raking, sinking through broadside, demasting/destroying sails). Right now if you don't go for the masts in pvp - you lose.

 

It must stop and this time the cries of demasters wont be heard

[Jack Frost]

Yes i like the mast thickness as it is right now. It just needs a little love HP wise

 

 

This is comming from a guy who sails in 5-4th rates and goes after first&second rates with a friend. Demasting is the sole best strategy right now

Edited June 7, 2016 by Jack Frost

[CaptVonGunn]

we think that current masts are weak and need to be buffed.

in pvp battles i have seen people just go straight for the masts and do nothing else. Dominant strategies like that should not exist as all three options must be viable (raking, sinking through broadside, demasting/destroying sails). Right now if you don't go for the masts in pvp - you lose.

 

It must stop and this time the cries of demasters wont be heard

 

   So you are leaving Boarding over powering and want to debuff the one thing that was the Main way to capture ships in the age of sail.. ie dismasting them. Why? It is much harder now then 3 weeks ago.. but easier then when you made it basically impossible...

 

  Chain is over powering right now.. but that can likely be adjusted since you made a large change this last time...   not sure I even understand what you all are doing now

 

 Not sure about the dont go for Masts you lose in PvP... Seems a bit dramatic.

Edited June 8, 2016 by CaptVonGunn

[Ledinis]

we think that current masts are weak and need to be buffed.

in pvp battles i have seen people just go straight for the masts and do nothing else. Dominant strategies like that should not exist as all three options must be viable (raking, sinking through broadside, demasting/destroying sails). Right now if you don't go for the masts in pvp - you lose.

 

It must stop and this time the cries of demasters wont be heard

 

 

Yes i like the mast thickness as it is right now. It just needs a little love HP wise

 

 

This is comming from a guy who sails in 5-4th rates and goes after first&second rates with a friend. Demasting is the sole best strategy right now

 

Also do you think that a few 5th rates should be able to take on a 1st or even a 2nd rate on their own ?  

[Jesters-Ink]

Also do you think that a few 5th rates should be able to take on a 1st or even a 2nd rate on their own ?

You've got to ask yourself "would I" if it was me back in that day. No Sir.

The Royal Navy's unwritten rule of engagement was/is, don't engage in a fair fight, if you do, you've already lost.

On another note:-

It would be more realistic for some ships to strike even before boarding, say if masts were gone and guns/crew were depleted.

Historically, ships often struck when 33% crew were disabled. Raking used to destroy a lot of guns.

Are we going to have ships strike in game, or they all going to have to be boarded or sank?

[Hethwill]

You've got to ask yourself "would I" if it was me back in that day. No Sir.

The Royal Navy's unwritten rule of engagement was/is, don't engage in a fair fight, if you do, you've already lost.

On another note:-

It would be more realistic for some ships to strike even before boarding, say if masts were gone and guns/crew were depleted.

Historically, ships often struck when 33% crew were disabled. Raking used to destroy a lot of guns.

Are we going to have ships strike in game, or they all going to have to be boarded or sank?

 

Highly discussable ( we would spend months at it ) and was majorly left to captain decision. The one true written rule was Article 10 and actually expected full commitment and engagement based on the assumption the RN quality would prevail over numbers. Any equal fight was always expected to be a victory.

Can bring up enough engagements totally unequal between frigate types, like 2 and 3 versus many more, but it is impossible to simulate in game.

 

Suggestion: In game it can be modeled with Crew Morale that lasts for the entire battle, drops and recovers, and affects overall functioning of the vessel.

[Jack Frost]

Also do you think that a few 5th rates should be able to take on a 1st or even a 2nd rate on their own ? 

Depending on skill hell yes! I've taken out pavels in a renom with a friend in a renom. (the other renom later capt a bellona by himself) This game should keep rewarding skill, therefore frigates should be able to take out second and firstrates if they play it wel.

 

Dont get me wrong it's not easy, 1 broadside on the bow can sometimes sink you because of leaks, a proper player can also demast the renom in 1 broadside. The renoms have to be within 50-100m all the time to even be able penetrate the mast. If the first/secondrate keeps tagging trough the wind, dropping sails, stuff like that. They can make it pretty damn near impossible for the 2 renoms.

 

Then there is also the surrender mechanic abuse, wich i hope will get adressed soon. People start surrendering to instantly drop sails, then cancel the surrender once sails have dropped.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Jack Frost

[SeaMist]

Depending on skill hell yes! I've taken out pavels in a renom with a friend in a renom. (the other renom later capt a bellona by himself) This game should keep rewarding skill, therefore frigates should be able to take out second and firstrates if they play it wel.

 

Dont get me wrong it's not easy, 1 broadside on the bow can sometimes sink you because of leaks, a proper player can also demast the renom in 1 broadside. The renoms have to be within 50-100m all the time to even be able penetrate the mast. If the rst/secondrate keeps tagging trough the wind, dropping sails, stuff like that. They can make it pretty damn near impossible for the 2 renoms.

 

Then there is also the surrender m,echanic abuse, wich i hope will get adressed soon. People start surrendering to instantly drop sails, then cancel the surrender once sails have dropped.

This should not even be remotely possible whatever your skill level.

[Jack Frost]

This should not even be remotely possible whatever your skill level.

It would not be if the enemy was a good player no. Like I said, it should be about skill. 

[Quineloe]

Skill should not trump realism.

[Jack Frost]

Skill should not trump realism.

And realism should not trump fun.

 

If 5ths would be useless against sols, how much fun would that be? Another incentive to always sail around in your bigest ship. I take pride in sinking sol's on as small a ship as possible. Now i've been beaten at my own game and 2 friends took out a pavel in 2 rattlesnakes. That's my next challange

 

Also, stop sailing around SOL's unescorted! This has nothing to do with the hotfix tho.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Jack Frost

[SeaMist]

Fifths are not useless against other 5ths. There is nothing to stop anyone having a whale of a time fighting appropriate level ships with out breaking every rule of physics and realism. Any SOL would reduce a fifth rate to matchwood in very short order.

The modern equivalent would be demanding to be able to sink an aircraft carrier with a PT boat.....

And realism should not trump fun.

 

If 5ths would be useless against sols, how much fun would that be? Another incentive to always sail around in your bigest ship. I take pride in sinking sol's on as small a ship as possible. Now i've been beaten at my own game and 2 friends took out a pavel in 2 rattlesnakes. That's my next challange

 

Also, stop sailing around SOL's unescorted! This has nothing to do with the hotfix tho.

Then the game is indeed seriously broken. That should be impossible.

[Jack Frost]

Fifths are not useless against other 5ths. There is nothing to stop anyone having a whale of a time fighting appropriate level ships with out breaking every rule of physics and realism. Any SOL would reduce a fifth rate to matchwood in very short order.

The modern equivalent would be demanding to be able to sink an aircraft carrier with a PT boat.....

I think you understand me wrong. Since the new damage moddel, it's been harder then ever before for smaller ships to fight big ships. And I like that, I like the challange. You even see me advocating for a boost in mast HP to make it even harder for small ships to go after big ships. Small ships can only penetrate masts at close range now, we can only penetrate sides at point blank or not at all, I dont get why you are complaining now?

 

This is a game and not reality, a player who is bad at the game in a big ship does not always win vs a good player in a smaller ship, and it should remain this way. If this was not the case, we will all be sailing 1-3rds in no time and finding 5th vs 5th rates battles would be nearly impossible.

If this game turns into a game where the biggest ship always wins, regardless of skill, i think you'll find allot of veteran players burn out real fast.

 

Edit: 1-3rd rates are not equivalent of aircraft carriers right now. Everyone sails them all the time. I mean port battles got 25 vs 25 of em? while big nations can only field a couple carriers. As long as it remains like this other ships need to be able to counter the SOL spam.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Jack Frost

[Hethwill]

An italian PT boat actually put a RN Battleship out of the water, it's not even an analogy bringing carriers and PT boats to a wood and iron and gunpowder warfare age.

 

I agree that SOLs must be the powerful things they are. They just need to be harsh to order, harsh to maintain and having purpose for War.

 

74 guns were the Post ships on the empires and were engaged many times by similar vessels.

 

The 38 guns frigates did what what did best, protect trader, interdict trade, establish blockades, patrol, etc.

 

SOLs must be strong, true floating fortresses and damn expensive.

[Quineloe]

And realism should not trump fun.

 

Does your fun depend on you pulling off insane and impossible stuff because you can game the game?

[Jack Frost]

Does your fun depend on you pulling off insane and impossible stuff because you can game the game?

Winning outgunned battles is certainly the most fun I've had in this game.

 

How would I be gaming the game?

I mean because I can pull this off because demasting is pretty easy. And here I am on these forums asking for a mast HP increase.

I've also stated there are various strategies any captain can use to counter the small vessels.

Honestly, if SOL captains are decent there is nothing 2 rattles or 2 rennom captains can do. Just tack trough the wind, slow down when the small ships get close. One broadside on the bow can sink them because of leaks, if your aim is not good just spray into the mast and you can demast small ships in a couple broadsides in SOL (probleply 1 with good aim).

 

You'll see that the biggest factor in me being able to pull this off is the skill level from the opposing captain.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Jack Frost

[Vernon Merrill]

Playing "the game" is NOT the same as "gaming the game". One might make the claim that grape from a "small" carronade shouldn't travel the full length of a much taller SOL, but it's certainly not gaming the system as everyone is playing by the same rules. Also, BR rating difference prevents some of this.

[CatSwift]

You'll see that the biggest factor in me being able to pull this off is the skill level from the opposing captain.

 

 

I agree; an SoL being sailed by an inexperienced captain should be easy meat for more skilled captains to take down.  its not the ships that win the battles, its the captains that win the battles.

 

Obviously there are not many historical examples of SoLs being taken by smaller ships, but that is because the nations were smart enough to only put really good captains in charge of their SoLs.  In this game where any couch potato who spends enough time battling idiot NPCs can afford an SoL, so I am not surprised there are plenty of examples where skilled captains prey on these unskilled SoL captains.

 

What probably should happen is that SoL's should only be in the hands of proven PvP captains; force the unskilled captains to learn how to PvP in 5ths before throwing them to the wolves in the most expensive ships possible.

[DeRuyter]

   So you are leaving Boarding over powering and want to debuff the one thing that was the Main way to capture ships in the age of sail.. ie dismasting them. Why? It is much harder now then 3 weeks ago.. but easier then when you made it basically impossible...

 

  Chain is over powering right now.. but that can likely be adjusted since you made a large change this last time...   not sure I even understand what you all are doing now

 

 Not sure about the dont go for Masts you lose in PvP... Seems a bit dramatic.

 

Actually it wasn't. The French tactic was to aim high to disable rigging. British tactic was to aim for the hull to disable guns and crew. Which one do you suppose won the day most of the time?

 

I agree that chain is now op - because it is too accurate at longer ranges. Chain should do damage to sails and more importantly standing and running rigging at closer range reducing a ships mobility and potentially causing a mast to fall due to loss of standing rigging supporting it.