Ledinis Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Seeing as a first rate line ship has 75 armor thickness while a 5th rate frigates has 62, these are obviously those historical refitted 1st rates that the historical Pirate Empire used, with striped out planking... Though shouldn't they go like 4-5 knots faster now with the reduced weight ? Will test it a bit more extensively tomorrow, but the changes seem like caving in to the cries of people that cant penetrate anything from 250 meters (while actually not even knowing what sector focus is, how the said 250 meter distance looks like in game and keep shooting form 700 meters away), but so far these changes sound bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagan Pete Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 If you lost a boarding action under those listed conditions then it is on you not the Devs,, I just captured a Victory with a Belona using Blue Boarding and Marines.. with Gold Grog and Swords... so your problem isnt a dev one You left out the part where you have guns, and grapes it. You are now ignored. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Seeing as a first rate line ship has 75 armor thickness while a 5th rate frigates has 62, these are obviously those historical refitted 1st rates that the historical Pirate Empire used, with striped out planking... Though shouldn't they go like 4-5 knots faster now with the reduced weight ? Will test it a bit more extensively tomorrow, but the changes seem like caving in to the cries of people that cant penetrate anything from 250 meters (while actually not even knowing what sector focus is, how the said 250 meter distance looks like in game and keep shooting form 700 meters away), but so far these changes sound bad. Saying they sound bad without playing them is just a different version of the crying that nothing works isn't it?.. seems good so far except for crew loss from gunfire seems a bit off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagan Pete Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 I'd love to see how that worked out in the combat log, because there's no way your 10 marines should lose to his 4-5 ... Precisely. It was as if they didn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) You left out the part where you have guns, and grapes it. You are now ignored. You graped it with a traders Lynx? Thats awesome...How did you pull that off?LOL just kidding and no I didnt fire my guns or grape him.. just boarded him took about 10 rounds of boarding.. maybe 15 "PAGAN PETE IS FURIOUS RIGHT NOW!!!!! My GOLD marines and GOLD boarding parties just lost a fight to an AI trade cutter in my trade lynx. GOLD upgrades,… and I lost! With 100 prep from me… Pagan Pete. This isn't a nerf… its a downright Deletion of boarding mods!! They are useless now! (yeah, Im So ticked off, I'm not even playing right now" Edited June 4, 2016 by CaptVonGunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Hmm not I am having a Conquest issue on and others are seeing it to it seems..... When I check the Conquest I am no longer seeing who is Lord Protector for the port I am in and no timer info for that port... Have checked several and nothing at any... I can still check other nations ports just not my factions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Hmm not I am having a Conquest issue on and others are seeing it to it seems..... When I check the Conquest I am no longer seeing who is Lord Protector for the port I am in and no timer info for that port... Have checked several and nothing at any... I can still check other nations ports just not my factions Re-logging seems to have fixed it but might need a look either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagan Pete Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 You graped it with a traders Lynx? Thats awesome...How did you pull that off?LOL just kidding and no I didnt fire my guns or grape him.. just boarded him took about 10 rounds of boarding.. maybe 15 "PAGAN PETE IS FURIOUS RIGHT NOW!!!!! My GOLD marines and GOLD boarding parties just lost a fight to an AI trade cutter in my trade lynx. GOLD upgrades,… and I lost! With 100 prep from me… Pagan Pete. This isn't a nerf… its a downright Deletion of boarding mods!! They are useless now! (yeah, Im So ticked off, I'm not even playing right now" Um… No. I was talking to YOU, in reference to YOUR ship having guns, and clearly you had to grape first. Pleasse… just… Too quote YOU, "The dumb in this post is awesome!" So, the dumb is on YOUR side, and you just proved it by not understanding that i Quoted YOU in the response. For the love of flying pig cloud. Stay out of the conversation, because you clearly don't contribute to it. I will Not reply or respond to you in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) Um… No. I was talking to YOU, in reference to YOUR ship having guns, and clearly you had to grape first. Pleasse… just… Too quote YOU, "The dumb in this post is awesome!" So, the dumb is on YOUR side, and you just proved it by not understanding that i Quoted YOU in the response. For the love of flying pig cloud. Stay out of the conversation, because you clearly don't contribute to it. I will Not reply or respond to you in the future. You dont understand boarding if you think you have to grape a Ship before boarding it.. In Solo Curse orders it is easy to take a 1st rate with a 2/5 Belona with the listed upgrades... it is very easy.. I take Vics and Santis all the time it is not that hard vs AI SO given your lack of understanding of boarding I now understand how you lost to an AI Trade Cutter even with Gold upgrades... Edited June 4, 2016 by CaptVonGunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenakha Kan Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Did a PB with a Bellona today, seems almost all the shot on towers at point blank range are bouncing...did a full broadside with only 2* hull.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledinis Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Saying they sound bad without playing them is just a different version of the crying that nothing works isn't it?.. seems good so far except for crew loss from gunfire seems a bit off By saying try them out extensively tomorrow i meant, testing them in pvp (which is not quite likely seeing as everyone just stoped playing line ships in general). The penetration values i already tested in against the AI in Rear Admiral missions. it took 20 minutes to kill a 3rd and a pavel while sailing in a santisima that had gold marines equipt, effectively being able to shoot only one broadside at a time. Next battle without the marines against a single Victory. Battle starts 1:30:00, Victory has 0 armor 1:21:37; Victory sinks ~1:19:50. So yeah, im pretty sure that from this experience i can say they dont just sound bad, but could replace the word with horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) By saying try them out extensively tomorrow i meant, testing them in pvp (which is not quite likely seeing as everyone just stoped playing line ships in general). The penetration values i already tested in against the AI in Rear Admiral missions. it took 20 minutes to kill a 3rd and a pavel while sailing in a santisima that had gold marines equipt, effectively being able to shoot only one broadside at a time. Next battle without the marines against a single Victory. Battle starts 1:30:00, Victory has 0 armor 1:21:37; Victory sinks ~1:19:50. So yeah, im pretty sure that from this experience i can say they dont just sound bad, but could replace the word with horrendous. Ah ha mis understood sorry.. But what ranges may I ask? remembering that everyone was crying they were to tough a week ago:) I loved teh big patch but then I like a detailed sim Edited June 4, 2016 by CaptVonGunn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) NM mis hit a key somewhere Edited June 4, 2016 by CaptVonGunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledinis Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Ah ha mis understood sorry.. But what ranges may I ask? remembering that everyone was crying they were to tough a week ago:) I loved teh big patch but then I like a detailed sim After the initial broadside at point blank more or less, starting at roundish 500-400 meters, slowly closing in to 250 meter sector lock to make those 42 pounder carronades do their magic. Everyone is crying about everything all the time, and that's what prompted my sarcastic remark at the start - the fact that i feel the developers made the change, not because its historically accurate, not because they themselves feel that it should like this, but because they were pushed into the corner by the "THIS GAME IS DEAD, YOU KILLED IT WITH THE NEW DAMAGE MODEL" posts. As for the crying you can more or less put the into 3 categories: 1) the ones that have no idea about the actual distances in the game, shooting from a kilometer away, not using mixes of carronades and cannons, and yelling they cant penetrate anything at 200 meters away. 2) the group of players that believe a light frigate should be the natural predator of Line ships 3) the group of people who tried the new damage model at 9.8, have not actually played the game after any of the hotfixes, yet come to moan and groan about how horrible it is ( and yeah these actually exist, if you have a couple of free days free to go through all of the posts regarding this topic, you will find quite a few people b....g about how bad the damage model is, while at the same post stating they haven't logged in since 9.8) There is... was only one problem with the damage model, which was that the current port battle system would make defenders win by default if they survived for and hour and a half, so instead of fights the defenders just kept kiting the attackers keeping the distance at which you cant reliably penetrate. The port battles are being reworked though and we should get a patch for that at the end of this month from what i read. In the new model if the defenders wont engage the attackers they will just loose. So yeah im hoping that they revert it back. As comical as it is to see a 1st rate Victory sink in less than 10 minutes (not counting the sailing time it actually took to get to it), if i wanted an arcade naval game id go back to World of Warships. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 After the initial broadside at point blank more or less, starting at roundish 500-400 meters, slowly closing in to 250 meter sector lock to make those 42 pounder carronades do their magic. Everyone is crying about everything all the time, and that's what prompted my sarcastic remark at the start - the fact that i feel the developers made the change, not because its historically accurate, not because they themselves feel that it should like this, but because they were pushed into the corner by the "THIS GAME IS DEAD, YOU KILLED IT WITH THE NEW DAMAGE MODEL" posts. As for the crying you can more or less put the into 3 categories: 1) the ones that have no idea about the actual distances in the game, shooting from a kilometer away, not using mixes of carronades and cannons, and yelling they cant penetrate anything at 200 meters away. 2) the group of players that believe a light frigate should be the natural predator of Line ships 3) the group of people who tried the new damage model at 9.8, have not actually played the game after any of the hotfixes, yet come to moan and groan about how horrible it is ( and yeah these actually exist, if you have a couple of free days free to go through all of the posts regarding this topic, you will find quite a few people b....g about how bad the damage model is, while at the same post stating they haven't logged in since 9.8) There is... was only one problem with the damage model, which was that the current port battle system would make defenders win by default if they survived for and hour and a half, so instead of fights the defenders just kept kiting the attackers keeping the distance at which you cant reliably penetrate. The port battles are being reworked though and we should get a patch for that at the end of this month from what i read. In the new model if the defenders wont engage the attackers they will just loose. So yeah im hoping that they revert it back. As comical as it is to see a 1st rate Victory sink in less than 10 minutes (not counting the sailing time it actually took to get to it), if i wanted an arcade naval game id go back to World of Warships. Thanks.. yes if it can be repeated 1st vs 1st that quickly then it needs work... for a game that battle should have been at least 20-30 min..... I only have 1 santi for Port battles and havent used it yet Belona vs Belona seems about right ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptEdwardKenway Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 I like the changes but the leaks. I still don't like that you can sink a ship with only one broadside and now it's even easier? I want to say (again) that not one single time in history a ship sunk by leaks after canonball penetrations. There is only one ship recorded which sunk because of ball damage and this ship lost it's whole stern after a devastating broadside at battle of trafalgar. Would like to see that changed in further patches to have a historical more accurate game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 32pd carronade bounce on martello tower now at <100m. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeheil Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 I have F11'd this, but in shallow water battles, shallow water ships cannot Penetrate the towers !! In Deep (mid) and Cap (top end) then on say an Ingermanland only the bottom deck can pen towers. Point blank range...and its NERF BALLS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavalActionPlayer Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 For what it is worth my feedback on the patch is that chain shot is too effective now making it very easy to cripple a target with very few shots (I don't mean dismast). This then enables boarding with minimal delay. So, to me, we are back in (or still in) the old meta of boarding as the simplest and most efficient way of fighting. Just fit out your ship with all the boarding mods you can muster, fit a few light guns to shoot sails, save the weight of heavier guns, make her strongly built to aid ramming and Robert is your Father's Brother! It kind of feels like 'Ancient Naval Action'. Think Greek, Persian, Roman, Phoenician fleets through to 14th/15th Century Europe.....ships were laden with warriors/soldiers/marines, manoeuvred into close action, fought hand to hand in boarding actions, with the odd bit of ramming for luck. Naval Action is supposed to be set in the 18th/19th Centuries. It should take time (not one or two broadsides) to partly cripple a ship and more time to damage hull and crew to the point that a boarding action becomes viable. In the 18th/19th Centuries boarding did happen of course but not until one ship or the other was beaten in the fire fight (IMHO). Note: This assumes a fight between roughly equal opponents. I'd love to see a mechanism where the point of combat is to reduce the enemy crew's morale to the point they strike their colours - not, as it is now, to board it and kill everyone (or even to shoot it till it sinks). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry de Montfort Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Well, took a fir pavel out with a Santi to do some testing. The pavel was sailing away from Santi at 250 meters at a 40 degree angle. Santi broadside hit 55x, caused 45 leaks, took 3/4 of pavel side armor off and she sank in 38 seconds. Great patch......... either the fir armor, leaks or gun damage is off. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) You really did 6500 damage in a single broadside? If a Consti has mast thickness of 75, and a hull thickness of 65 - isn't the Consti then considerably harder to demast than to sink? Do angles count at all when you hit masts? Edited June 4, 2016 by Quineloe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMist Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) Just personal opinion but I preferred the leak settings as they were. As far as damage is concerned I seemed to have more trouble causing damage than before with more misses than usual but it may have been a bad night. Again I preferred it as it was. I am using longs in a Constitution. On bounces I had many more shots bounce off my target than before. That's just a comment. I am not saying good or bad. Edited June 4, 2016 by SeaMist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagan Pete Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Update… Boarding mods seem to work on warships, albeit slightly less than before, but NOT on trade ships… Can we get a fix for this? Wot fer takin traders on a trader is kinda a hallmark of excellence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanay Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Did you tested this with let's say a LGV ? I hope this is a bug and not something intentional to make the already easy preys that traders becoming more free food for the first guy having more than 2 neurons connected passing by that will have to make a couple of clicks to get a free and easy prey... it's enough to see the armed traders armor reduced patch after patch, if on the top of this they can't even defend on boarding ... Can't test for now but really hope this is a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Your only infamous in your own mind Pete.. if you lost a boarding action under those listed conditions then it is on you not the Devs,, I just captured a Victory with a Belona using Blue Boarding and Marines.. with Gold Grog and Swords... so your problem isnt a dev one Still firing PvE missions while defending empty ports?! LOL. And then mock someone who has probably taken down 10x the number of REAL players you have... PRICELESS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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