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Crew management update - discussion


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  • This also means that ships no longer will be teleported to outposts and players will have to get their captures to ports themselves

 

This will absolutely kill this game. If we cant send our ships to other ports quickly tat means alot more sailing and less trading or pvping this would be a mistake

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I think what we really need, with this change especially, is crew that ranks up. A crew that works better for every battle they win. This could be achievable by assigning morale with a combat multiplier for all aspects of fighting in game now, from boarding mechanics to firing cannons, to how many crew you need to man sailing/cannons/repair etc. Modules will simply enhance the crew's morale multiplier.

 

 

That's how it works in total war games. If you replenish your good soldiers with newbs the unit loses skill, rank whatever u wanna call it..

Edited by BACk ALLEY ShENANiGANS
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It's impossible due to the number of players - because they will never arrive then.

Bots sail slower, under crewed bots will be easy targets. No point to even do this because it will be a fake feature. 

We believe that captured ships should be brought back to port by the player. Even Sid Meier's Pirates had this. 

 

 

Regarding less PvP comments:

if done right we believe that there will be more PvP because of increased traffic bringing valuable ships back home. 

 

In addition to sailing back with prize crew or sinking, please add option to take cargo from a captured ship (including ability to distribute cargo to other friendly players in the instance) and allow the captured player to keep his ship. (Yes, this happened in reality).

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We could make a better system out of this and new crew management.

 

Now: you can teleport your ship to any outpost you want without delay.

 

Idea: you can teleport your ship to any outpost you want with delay and some new requirements:

  • Enough crew to manage sail
  • An Officer (cant tell powder monkeys to do this). This also open a New Officer build: Second in Command, he will transport your ship to outpost faster up to 25% (need more details)

With this, we solve the problem: transfer a 1st rate fleet from capital to any outpost in less than 5 minutes. If you want to do something, prepare for it the day before or night before. 

 

I also think that Devs still have data from previous patch when you can transport your goods from any outpost to outpost, we can reuse that data now for ships but of course, 1st rate will take longer than frigate.

Edited by Nash
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  • This also means that ships no longer will be teleported to outposts and players will have to get their captures to ports themselves

 

This will absolutely kill this game. If we cant send our ships to other ports quickly tat means alot more sailing and less trading or pvping this would be a mistake

 

 

What is needed instead of magic teleport is a port-to-port ship transfer option that works like Goods Delivery, i.e. has a cost and a time delay.

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This will absolutely kill this game. If we cant send our ships to other ports quickly tat means alot more sailing and less trading or pvping this would be a mistake

 

 

You will pvp on your way back :) If you really want that ship.

The goal of crew is to bring 2 mechanics back, increase the costs of heavy lineships, and bring persistence to the main element of sea combat of age of sail. The benefits are a way better than negatives. 

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-reintroducing AI warship capture will in my opinion break the game.  There is no motivation or endgame to economy or RVR if you can capture warships from AI, especially 4th rates and up.  Current system of trader capture from AI plus warship capture from players is both balanced and provides the proper risk vs. reward dynamic, and is one of the few things that provides real rewards to players for engaging in PvP rather than PvE. A first rate is not an appropriate reward for defeating an AI enemy, and defeating the AI will always be relatively easy because they are AI.  Easy acquisition of SoLs is fundamentally game-breaking unless you totally redesign progression, economy and RvR.

 

 

 

Current view is this: we dont want 3rd rates and up capturable from NPCs - in reality a captured lineships will be taken over by the government anyway. 

 

in regard of features that someone things will be breaking the game we have changed our position.

 

The best way to improve the game is to focus on suggesting the features you already love so we can add more on them. Fleets were loved by a large group of players, just like ship capture. If we continue removing the features that you hate and someone loves we will eventually start removing features that you love. If this continues eventually all features will be removed in this way. 

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History tells us different story my friend and Naval Action is historically accurate game. Leaving OS battles visible to players should give Captains freedom to attack/chase when they want even if enemy is weakened. Note - those who camp battles outside can be an ideal target for other Hunters on OS ;) Creating fun and pvp.

 

Several days later, Santísima Trinidad was spotted, still damaged, making her way back to Spain, and engaged by the 32-gun frigate HMS Terpsichore under Captain Richard Bowen, but she escaped. She eventually returned to Cadiz for repairs.

 

Not exactly. The difference between your example and what happens in game would be if HMS Terpsichore was waiting within visual range of the battle itself for the Santisima to limp away, where she could then take a crack at it. This is what happens in game, where with visible battle markers players would keep the wind advantage in OW until the prey dropped and then jump them. This is very different from running across them as they head back to port from the battle, as at least in that situation the damaged ship has more than 30 seconds to put up sails, use repairs (if any) and take steps mitigate any wind advantage you may have. What you are suggesting enables the same crap I saw early on in Steam release, where players not happy with the battle outcome would come back and wait for the aggressors to drop from the previous battle for another try.

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  • This also means that ships no longer will be teleported to outposts and players will have to get their captures to ports themselves

 

This will KILL the game. Period.  You require a player to ship their 1st rate from KPR to Great Corn?  Yeah, see people leave.  Please don't do it.

 

-Ski

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People complain about having to sail their captured ship back to port, what on earth are you doing capping a ship in every single battle? Realistically that would not be possible.  I see the other bonus to this feature reduced chain boarding.

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Continuing the discussion started here

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13601-19-mln-vs-60-thousand-the-cost-of-crew-moderated/

 

We would like to describe the forthcoming change to the crew system in Naval Action

 

Crew will have to be hired for certain price for the sailor

Crew will be lost if you sink or blow up

Crew will become persistent between battles

Players will be provided with 40 free sailors at the start of the game which cannot be lost (to support new players), this number could go up with rank up to a certain limit

Crew will be available for hire in all ports that you can enter

Crew will have to be assigned to ships that you capture to be able to use them

 

Ships that you capture will have to have crew to be transported back to port

There will be only two options for the ship you capture:

  • Add to fleet (assigning crew)
  • Sink

Ships will have minimum possible crew - you won't be able to add a ship to fleet or transfer yourself to you if your crew is lower than that ship minimum for sailing

 

Examples of how the system works

 

1) If you captured a Trincomalee in a Constitution you will have to assign crew to Trincomalee and sail back under crewed in both ships. Once you arrive to port you will hire the crew again. 

2) If your group lost a good amount of crew during heavy battle - you become more vulnerable for the next battle

3) You sail a cutter and your friend captures a Santisima for you. If you claim it you will not be able to sail a Santisima if its minimum crew is above 40. You will have to sink her.

 

What this means for you

  • This means that fleets could come back, but they will be based on your crew that you can manage and you will actually have to hire that crew paying for them 
  • This means that ship capture could come back (with limitations)
  • This also means that ships no longer will be teleported to outposts and players will have to get their captures to ports themselves
  • This also means that maintenance for heavy ships will go up dramatically as it should be
  • This also means that losing a first rate will cost you

Discuss

 

I feel some of this would drive me away from the game until its changed to something more reasonable with out me sailing back to port after every AI mission, or PvP battle. How every I dont see where if the repair kits in the OW would replenish the crew or not. If yes then ok then this wouldnt be to bad. If no Ill be playing something until I see changes. Arcade and Realistic is very hard to keep both sides happy regardless what is done. So my main question would the Repair Kits in OW after a battle would fix crew losses after a battle?

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Nelson's fleet as far as i remember lost a lot of ships back to spain during 3-4 days after Trafalgar

There are multiple of other cases where captured ships were recaptured sometimes right the next day.

 

We have sat enough on two chairs. People who want simplicity don't want open world (or just want a rudimentary motorboat version).

But there are two features that must come back because we made a mistake removing them. New players want more immersion and crew provides this. Taking care of the crew becomes a task.

Also ship capture and fleets need to come back and the only good viable playable persistent alternative is to do it with crew. + crew balances things out for captured ships and will provide OW traffic. Persistent crew if done right will be a great thing.

 

No, all i want is more and more OW! I love open world ant it is the main reason to play this game. What i trying to mean, due to my lack english and poor vocabulary. is that the game is opening a multitude of things at same time instead to improve and fix the ones already implement. When i mean simplicity is: is that game a simulator? strategic game? árcade? The things are mixing too much fast at same time.

 

Dont you think the explorer role can be more immersive to new players? And simple? Don you think is too many things to a new player handle at same time?

 

At beginning the new players are just too much poor...I remember well when i started, i doing trading runs to improve my wealth to be more confortable to go search PVP in OW. Otherwise, i was almost scaried to lost one of my 2 ships in a ganking fight. Even now i see a lot of players avoiding PVP when they alone, to just minutes after coming with a bunch of friends to rape you...

 

New players just cant handle with such things too many times and just quit gaming because they cant see a real solid improvements in their characters...Ok, you can say: go find a clan to get suport against that issues. But, if he want to play alone? No one can be forced to join a clan to survive in any kinda of game. Some ppl just want to play alone and that kinda of people, which i think is the majority (at least in the beginning), can fell too much frustated due to handle all things at same time...

 

I think is great idea, just think there is lot more things to tweak first...

 

Anyway, i hope it work well.

Edited by Roche Brasiliano
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This will KILL the game. Period.  You require a player to ship their 1st rate from KPR to Great Corn?  Yeah, see people leave.  Please don't do it.

 

-Ski

 

First testing version of open world had teleport to every town on the map from anywhere. There were only 15 towns though. 

It was sad to lose those teleports. 

 

Also remember this review?

People who come into the game - kind of hate teleports (they come to appreciate them later) 

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Current view is this: we dont want 3rd rates and up capturable from NPCs - in reality a captured lineships will be taken over by the government anyway. 

 

in regard of features that someone things will be breaking the game we have changed our position.

 

The best way to improve the game is to focus on suggesting the features you already love so we can add more on them. Fleets were loved by a large group of players, just like ship capture. If we continue removing the features that you hate and someone loves we will eventually start removing features that you love. If this continues eventually all features will be removed in this way. 

If we only tell you about the features we love and how to improve them, and wont give any criticism to something we dont think should be in the game, eventually we will end up with motorboats with laser cannons :) In all honesty though its not the fact that i h8 the feature of capping AI ships. Its more of the fact that it heavily impacts crafting by making stuff bellow the capture limit worthless. 

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The best way to improve the game is to focus on suggesting the features you already love so we can add more on them. Fleets were loved by a large group of players, just like ship capture. If we continue removing the features that you hate and someone loves we will eventually start removing features that you love. If this continues eventually all features will be removed in this way. 

 

Okay, I love the feature that capturing actual live players in PvP comes with a unique and valuable reward compared to PvE, because every other aspect of the game rewards PvE over PvP. I also love that I can actually sell the ships I spend hours on crafting.  And I love the feature that when I engage a human or group of humans on the OS or enter a port battle, I will only face humans in the battle, because I don't want to fight AI.

 

Some things are hated because of the benefits their exclusion brings.

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This will KILL the game. Period.  You require a player to ship their 1st rate from KPR to Great Corn?  Yeah, see people leave.  Please don't do it.

 

-Ski

This is why players will not want to use First rates for everything and lesser ships will become valuable to sail again.

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How will these crew changes affect the small/large PVP battle option?  Is it possible to have these PVP matches kind of a "mini-game" all to their own so to speak where you risk your ship but not the crew?  I am just about to begin my crafting quest for the Ingerunicornland blueprint so will have plenty of friggin frigates to lose in matches.

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puh, another idea not thought to the end. that makes the game more and more unplayable.

realy, why don't you fix all the open Problems first and not bring in always another enhancement to the game with more Problems that needs then to be fixed on a Trial and error way.

Seriously people complain and complain about them fixing things that weren't broken. Now you complain about them adding cool ideas. Theyr'e trying to progress the game and make it more interesting why because now the game boils down to the same missions over and over again and PB's. I quite like this update. Why? Because it makes sense. Crew is supposed to be a resource and in fact in most games is. The Game is in Alpha. The point is to bring in new ideas and fine tune them enough to make the workable. Only when you get to BETA do you have all the mechanics worked out and you get rid of all the bugs. Stop complaining because the DEV's ar doing their job right.

 

Personally I Love this Idea. I think it's a great way to be fleets back so that you can protect your trade ships. I Hope the devs go through with this plan and i hope we see it soon. thank you

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Seriously people complain and complain about them fixing things that weren't broken. Now you complain about them adding cool ideas. Theyr'e trying to progress the game and make it more interesting why because now the game boils down to the same missions over and over again and PB's. I quite like this update. Why? Because it makes sense. Crew is supposed to be a resource and in fact in most games is. The Game is in Alpha. The point is to bring in new ideas and fine tune them enough to make the workable. Only when you get to BETA do you have all the mechanics worked out and you get rid of all the bugs. Stop complaining because the DEV's ar doing their job right.

 

Personally I Love this Idea. I think it's a great way to be fleets back so that you can protect your trade ships. I Hope the devs go through with this plan and i hope we see it soon. thank 

 

 

Disagree with you on this one. Introducing new game mechanics when virtually no existing mechanics have been ironed out is part of the problem. Combat mechanics including armor values, penetration values, mast strength, sail strength, chain damage, raking damage, boarding combat, marines mechanic, grape shot effectiveness, gun loss, port battle maps, port battle timers, teleports, new non-craftable mods, political system (and this includes a laundry list of features)....NONE OF THESE ARE IRONED OUT. Now, we want to introduce officers with all sorts of crazy bonuses, double shot, double charge, and a whole new requirement to manage our crew?! This is like game development by someone with a serious case of attention deficit disorder. Every single new feature that is introduced or existing ones that get re-worked causes a massive ripple effect through the entire game.....these various features are all inter-dependent with each other. Something that worked just fine can be rendered broken due to a change in a completely different mechanic.

 

Personally, I don't see a SINGLE thing with this new system that adds any "fun factor" to the game at all. Cool, now I'm going to need to go to waste even more of my time on afk sailing to replenish crew or to even bother with a 1 dura ship? Sucks both for groups and individuals playing solo....group play would require someone to leave the group and sail their captured prize back to port....ok guys be back in an hour or so after i dump this piece of junk off. sucks for single players because ganking in groups will be even more popular. Currently, I will fight 2v1's sometimes even 3v1's depending on ships because it's fun and the punishment for losing is not that bad....you make crew replacement something painful and you might as well just take this game and shelve it. 

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Question.

If you suspect or know you will dislike a certain feature and your argument goes something like this:

"It won't be fun, it will bring unbalance, it will break the game, people will quit, I will quit and take my friends with me, PEOPLE WILL DIE!"

Do you think people listen more or less to you as you move up the strength scale?

(Or slide down the rabbit hole{1}towards full retard{2}...

{1} Literary reference and {2} internet slang)

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I very much like these proposals.

 

Do need to make the prize worthy enough to warrant the extra effort to bring to port.

It will stop the capture and send your ship to port exploit.

Could use any crew rank ups to randomly create new officers as they gain experience and get promoted. 

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