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Crew management update - discussion


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well looks like this patch will be the nail in the coffin for me, i didn't sign up to play sailing and crew management simulator, i signed up to play a decent game about sailing warships in the 18th century

 

 

I'm not sure how you expect to have the latter without the former.

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After reading through 90% of the posts, I am very amused by the "woe is me's" lol. People complaining about not being able to teleport ships, having to deal with crew management, pvp vs pve players and changes in the game effecting your currant playing style, players "leaving" because of game changes, capturing ships not being worth the time for the money.

 

1.) You need to think about the long term, not the short term. This game is in Alpha, and will never make it out of Alpha unless it gets finished. It is suppose to be like an 18th century/early 19th century EVE Online. It will not get there without the RPG element getting added.

 

2. In regards to it "not being worth it to capture ships", the developers have already said that the currant welfare gold missions and money earning is not permanent, so again, look into the long run. It will likely be a money maker later on.

 

3.) If you think that players will leave because of game changes meant to further the development and eventual finish of the game, just wait until it falls flat on its face and doesn't get finished because of peoples whining. You will have more players with a more developed game, and even more with a finished product.

 

4.) People are going to have to get over in game teleporting eventually. It's fine for you to be able to "book passage to a port" for your captain like in POTBS, but being able to teleport ships is to much of a game changer when it comes to war fronts. Not being able to teleport ships will make wars and port capture into a quality over quantity thing until the game population increases, forcing people to choose more carefully where they decide to set up operations according to what they want to do, and which ports to capture as a nation. One probable option to make everyone happy is to speed up open world travel a little bit.

 

5.) Adding crew management and hiring is a wonderful, little step forward toward the completion of this game, which has so much potential. Please do it.

 

You guys cant have it both ways. You can either have a great EVE style 18th century sailing game, or a boring 18th century sailing Call of Duty. Look toward the future, and not how changes are going to effect the temporary style of gameplay that is being utilized now.

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This will KILL the game. Period.  You require a player to ship their 1st rate from KPR to Great Corn?  Yeah, see people leave.  Please don't do it.

 

-Ski

 

So, maybe you need to build and outpost closer to your favorite pvp zone. Taking captured prize back home is required and you will have repairs and crew to fight on your way back home. 

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Every change that's been made to slow down port capture has seen increasing numbers of players leave.  I don't see how this will be any different.  This is going to slow down gameplay to the point where I'll probably just play now and then, and I've been averaging about 13 hrs a day logged in.  I'd suggest that a part of testing is for the devs to look at what happens to the player population after changes have been made.  

 

Too bad, this has the potential to be a great game.

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1. you should still be able to teleport from base to base yourself,

2. no more marines on trade brigs and snows and even LGV's, that's just not even close to historical, and will even the bite

3. make LGV's worth the effort, they need more cargo on board to justify the effort, higher resale price for ship and maybe more salvage parts.

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I will say this. to sail from lorimers to kidds harbour takes about an hour in the FASTEST ships and that isnt even half of the map as far as distance covered. and from kidds harbour to the east coast is about the same as well as from kidds harbour to summerset is also about an hour. from mort to canalete is almost an hour and a half. now currently when you buy a port flag you have 60 minutes to plant it at that port. not everyone would be able to make it in time. those times ive mentioned are with NO BATTLES OR BEING CHASED just going straight there.

 

Now how big is the map now with those real life time spent just sailing to those ports from a specific port. so from summerset to tulum is going to be like at least 2 and a half hours of real time just sailing there with no battles in between that includes going around islands not everyone has that time to just sit here and sail even going afk people have jobs, people go to school people have lives. im one of the few who has the actual time to sail all that without getting up to leave the house. i dont think forcing everyone to have to sail prized ships back to a port and we do need more outposts we can place the current amount is not enough.

 

Im a pvp player and i got ports in places all over and i sailed allt he way there when i wasnt hunting other nations players or doing port battles. this is going to bring down new players and they will be telling their friends to not get the game which will hurt the population to the point of you devs wondering what happened when us players are the main feedback because i'll admit i do wait with other pirates outside of a battle because a fellow clan member or pirate is in trouble and we chase him down as soon as that enemy player pops out that aint going to change with the having players sail their prizes back to any port nearby they would be pulled into battle as soon as the option pops up. Its called ambushing and every player in this game knows that is going to happen especially if they are attack pirates. and they are going to lose both ships because the ambusher will have the numbers and both ships will be too undercrewed to be effective to run.

 

this is going to make people leave not all but many.

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I will say this. to sail from lorimers to kidds harbour takes about an hour in the FASTEST ships and that isnt even half of the map as far as distance covered. and from kidds harbour to the east coast is about the same as well as from kidds harbour to summerset is also about an hour. from mort to canalete is almost an hour and a half. now currently when you buy a port flag you have 60 minutes to plant it at that port. not everyone would be able to make it in time. those times ive mentioned are with NO BATTLES OR BEING CHASED just going straight there.

 

Now how big is the map now with those real life time spent just sailing to those ports from a specific port. so from summerset to tulum is going to be like at least 2 and a half hours of real time just sailing there with no battles in between that includes going around islands not everyone has that time to just sit here and sail even going afk people have jobs, people go to school people have lives. im one of the few who has the actual time to sail all that without getting up to leave the house. i dont think forcing everyone to have to sail prized ships back to a port and we do need more outposts we can place the current amount is not enough.

 

Im a pvp player and i got ports in places all over and i sailed allt he way there when i wasnt hunting other nations players or doing port battles. this is going to bring down new players and they will be telling their friends to not get the game which will hurt the population to the point of you devs wondering what happened when us players are the main feedback because i'll admit i do wait with other pirates outside of a battle because a fellow clan member or pirate is in trouble and we chase him down as soon as that enemy player pops out that aint going to change with the having players sail their prizes back to any port nearby they would be pulled into battle as soon as the option pops up. Its called ambushing and every player in this game knows that is going to happen especially if they are attack pirates. and they are going to lose both ships because the ambusher will have the numbers and both ships will be too undercrewed to be effective to run.

 

this is going to make people leave not all but many.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. With the new fleet and crew system, you only need to sail once to set up an outpost (AI fleet with the ships you want to move, or buy the ships you want at said outpost). Once you have your outpost, you do your hunting near that outpost. Sailing from Bermuda to Tulum is absolute nonsense and in no way relevant to how people actually play the game.

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I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. With the new fleet and crew system, you only need to sail once to set up an outpost (AI fleet with the ships you want to move, or buy the ships you want at said outpost). Once you have your outpost, you do your hunting near that outpost. Sailing from Bermuda to Tulum is absolute nonsense and in no way relevant to how people actually play the game.

 

I think what he is getting at, is that with even the current model getting away from a long fight with players is hard, given the revenge fleets that tend to hang around waiting for the fight to end.

 

With a ship that wins a close fight, and leaves into the open world essentially crippled, now with a prize captured ship, also crippled and driven by AI, the ability to escape getting revenged is going to be practically zero.

 

I happen to think that as long as revenge fleets are possible, he is absolutely correct in this regard.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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I think what he is getting at, is that with even the current model getting away from a long fight with players is hard, given the revenge fleets that tend to hang around waiting for the fight to end.

 

With a ship that wins a close fight, and leaves into the open world essentially crippled, now with a prize captured ship, also crippled and driven by AI, the ability to escape getting revenged is going to be practically zero.

 

I happen to think that as long as revenge fleets are possible, he is absolutely correct in this regard.

Luckily we can just log off afterwards.

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Or can just sink the prize. Decisions will be made. Many of them will not be the correct ones.

As long as it's meaningful choice with agency, then it's good game play.

 

If the best choice is always, or almost always the same, it's not.  Even Chess after thousands of years has more than just the queens gambit as a viable opening.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken
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Luckily we can just log off afterwards.

Taking your Tonka truck and going home as an optimal move is not a good way to design a game.

 

 If not playing is the most viable strategy, better to just let them teleport home out of the battle screen so they can keep playing.

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I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. With the new fleet and crew system, you only need to sail once to set up an outpost (AI fleet with the ships you want to move, or buy the ships you want at said outpost). Once you have your outpost, you do your hunting near that outpost. Sailing from Bermuda to Tulum is absolute nonsense and in no way relevant to how people actually play the game.

what i was getting at with the times is showing how big the map is.

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Id prefer a big map rather than a tiny map

 

To elaborate, as the objectives of a nation change, where the action is changes.

 

Let me use PvP2 france as an example

 

When I first started it was deemed best for all players to get an outpost at cano macareo. The pirate war happened, and this remained a good choice. Carriacou then became a good option. Comp du Roy when it was a free town. Then plymouth. Then Vieques. Then La Mona. Then La tortue

 

Slow, gradual change that caused hops from freetown to free town up the antilles and into haiti. The most anyone had to sail at any given port hop was 1 hour. 

Given the fleets mechanic this will make changing outposts even easier, as you dont have to run around searching for a trader to move the rest of your ships

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what i was getting at with the times is showing how big the map is.

 

Which is why I'm wondering what the relevance is. The map is only as big as you make it. Basing yourself in Bermuda and sailing to the Bahamas or the Florida coast for your PVP is the height of sillyness. With the "hotzones" under discussion in the admin's newer port battle thread (I think it was the suggestions forum) you can see where most of the players have been fighting and make one trip to locate yourself and several ships there from wherever you were before. Make that trip, and then you have 15-20 minutes sailing before you find a fight on the OW for the foreseeable future. The "sail from  one end of the map to another for a few days, then relocate across the map again" is a pain in the arse that the player imposes upon himself, not something the game forces on them.

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Dear players!

After 1 month i just sign in what happening on forum, whats the next step in development. I see, nothing changed. Developers just still dont know, how to satisfy the crowd. They promised before early acces start,  that they wont rework battle system time after time, but in most patches they just set armour, dmg, penetration time after time. They didnt care about real issues (endless OW sailing, low populated nation problems, diplomacy, etc) .In last three days i logged in, and noone was online from my guild (we had like 30 active people before). They all gone. Now only HC players stay, but that wont work for a long time. Developers can communicate with them on forums, and can talk about thier plans, but the crowd is gone. About 1 month before  i saw a topic, there were a poll about most important changes should implemented. I think diplomacy was the first. Now we get a no meaning crew support patch again. Gratz, dear devs. this game is dead for me, and i think for most of the playerz. I will ask steam if there is a possibility to get back my money for this game, if it wont have a real start ( i dont think early acces is that by law).. I dont need money, but this casinged, bad developing just make me so upset! One more thing!. I never get answer to my any question i asked on forums, but when i made 3 copy one of my post to 3 another forums (i think the post fit to all 3 of them), they just warn me! So dear devs, i hope this game popularity just goes as it seems, and as it intended because of ur bad developing!        Never cya again!

Edited by DrZoidberg
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Dear players!

After 1 month i just sign in what happening on forum, whats the next step in development. I see, nothing changed.  

...

I never get answer to my any question i asked on forums, but when i made 3 copy one of my post to 3 another forums (i think the post fit to all 3 of them), they just warn me! So dear devs, i hope this game popularity just goes as it seems, and as it intended because of ur bad developing!        Never cya again!

With that level of self importance, not to mention impatience, I'm not surprised your unsatisfied with early access.

 

I would suggest you only ever buy finished products from now on, because you obviously have no clue the herculean task that is game development, nor the patience to be what is essentially a tester providing reasonable and coherent feed back to what seems to me to be an extremely fast developing game.

 

Don't let the door....

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With that level of self importance, not to mention impatience, I'm not surprised your unsatisfied with early access.

 

I would suggest you only ever buy finished products from now on, because you obviously have no clue the herculean task that is game development, nor the patience to be what is essentially a tester providing reasonable and coherent feed back to what seems to me to be an extremely fast developing game.

 

Don't let the door....

i started to play this game before u mate i think, as i started to play from start (trial). If not, sorry for that. I usually support like 3-4 early acces in 1 time. Atm i play in Paragon,  Heroes and Generals,  Star Citisen, what are in this or earlier phase. I dont like the Star Citizen dev crew aswell, as it seems it goes only for money, and maybe that game wont be published too.. But all of that 3 games developers just care about how to satisfy the players, they communicate with them, they try to keep them in game with thier patches, and they answer the players questions.  Succesfull games just has population rising in early acces. This is just loosing as hell. I think u are a HC player, who likes this type of game very much, and just dont recognize that without real communication with players all games just die. In this game if the developer(s?) decide to do stg in the next patches, he(they) will do it for sure appart from that how many player dont want it or want another thing to change (most players wanted teleport from start, most players wanted diplomacy patch next, most players dont wanted repair in battles again and so one - those players mostly gone for now). I dunno how to help the develope, if players opinion doesnt count. This game is now in slow agony phase because of these things. I think as only HC players could stand that kind of develope, my opinion will be abide on this forum, but soon u will see how long this game will last without any income. Btw to support this game and my eco, i bought 2 account, and if in EURO PVP server will hit the 1500 players online in same time again, i will buy 1 more, i promise u (i m sure i never have to :) ).

Edited by DrZoidberg
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i started to play this game before u mate i think, as i started to play from start (trial). If not, sorry for that. I usually support like 3-4 early acces in 1 time. Atm i play in Paragon,  Heroes and Generals,  Star Citisen, what are in this or earlier phase. I dont like the Star Citizen dev crew aswell, as it seems it goes only for money, and maybe that game wont be published too.. But all of that 3 games developers just care about how to satisfy the players, they communicate with them, they try to keep them in game with thier patches, and they answer the players questions.  Succesfull games just has population rising in early acces. This is just loosing as hell. I think u are a HC player, who likes this type of game very much, and just dont recognize that without real communication with players all games just die. In this game if the developer(s?) decide to do stg in the next patches, he(they) will do it for sure appart from that how many player dont want it or want another thing to change (most players wanted teleport from start, most players wanted diplomacy patch next, most players dont wanted repair in battles again and so one - those players mostly gone for now). I dunno how to help the develope, if players opinion doesnt count. This game is now in slow agony phase because of these things. I think as only HC players could stand that kind of develope, my opinion will be abide on this forum, but soon u will see how long this game will last without any income. Btw to support this game and my eco, i bought 2 account, and if in EURO PVP server will hit the 1500 players online in same time again, i will buy 1 more, i promise u (i m sure i never have to :) ).

 

 

Sorry if I got the wrong impression about your amount of play. Your first sentence, "After 1 month i just sign in what happening on forum, whats the next step in development. I see, nothing changed." sounded like you had joined a month ago, stopped playing, and then jumped back in, looked at one or two posts for some very specific features YOU happen to want, didn't see them, and then proceeded to bitch, moan and stamp your feet like an angry Child.

 

The fact is I took a two month hiatus from the game, and was astonished to see soooo many things different when I came back.  Land in battles, TP rules changed, smuggling, about 5 new ships including mortar mechanics. Just before I left there was the production buildings added, crew management in battle, and a bunch of other things I can't even remember now, so I think your way way way off base to say they haven't been making progress. These aren't spell casters able to summon code from their imaginations alone, writing good software is HARD, and takes TIME, to do it. 

 

I think with how ambitious this project is, and how small the development team is, they have done one hell of a job putting the core in, while trying to flesh out open world ideas and problems.

 

To your comment "But all of that 3 games developers just care about how to satisfy the players, they communicate with them, they try to keep them in game with thier patches, and they answer the players questions." As either ignorant, as in you haven't looked and participated enough to see, or blinded by unrealistic expectations and your own self importance.  I see Admin, the lead of the developers, who has over 1700 hours in game to show for how well he knows the players experience, posting in most active threads on this forum, and responding to reasonable comments and questions at least once a day. 

 

If your last couple of posts are any indications, I would not consider your comments reasonable. They are difficult to read, grammatically horrific, walls of text that lack any meaningful punctuation. Seem to offer no suggestions, and come across as just juvenile and illiterate rants, especially when you claim to speak for "most players" when talking about what is currently pissing you off.   Now if English is your second language, the grammar and punctuation is excusable, but I would suggest you slow down and put together a couple of concise points and ideas for solutions, rather than the all encompassing spew you currently seem to use.

 

I think with how ambitious this project is, and how small the development team is, they have done one hell of a job putting the core in, while trying to flesh out open world ideas and problems. The play is not there currently to hit mainstream, but early access sales seem to indicate that many people purchased, and never even tried the game, instead opting to wait for it to be more fleshed out.  With 300 hours in, I already have had my moneys worth of fun, considering it's was less than a mid range dinner out with the wife.

 

I also think your assumption that successful early access games all have a rising population needs one hell of a sample size to prove your case.  I can't imagine any early access game that people install to just check out, that has continuous growth through the entire early access phase.  ED comes to mind, and I know many people who enthusiastically started in that game, and ran out of interesting things to do in much fewer hours than this game.

 

So please show me one game in early access that has had continuous player participation growth over the course of 6 or so months, cause I would love to play a game that good.

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Take no heed. Same speech in a lot of another projects and still the same lack of text layout.

I actually think I recognized the pattern from the Star Citizen forums, and if it is the same person, he proudly proclaimed that English was in fact his first language, as shocking at that may seem.

 

If it is the same guy, he could be a dedicated kick start/early access troll.

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Same old story, same old song and dance, whinge moan and grumble, "oh it takes forever to sail form point A to point B " errr yeah....its an age of sail game, not a space sim, with jump gates, and like a couple of other folk on this thread have already said, why would you need to make a long distance voyage more than once, you just sail to wherever, get an out post, and go from there....pretty simple really. OK if you do the trading thing, then that can be rather tedious for sure, even relatively short trips take a bit of time, but that's the nature of the beast surely ? I think the Devs do a bang on job, they address what is broken, and are constantly feeding new content in, OK, so it doesn't happen once a month, but again, small Dev team, huge game. So instead of whining and moaning, and wanting to turn the darn game into some run of the mill Pew Pew fest, have a little forbearance, if you have an issue, post it up by all means, but enough with the constant moaning about sailing times, and about how awful everything is, because, it is far from awful, it is a good game, with huge possibilities, and huge scope, it will evolve over time, and more and more stuff will come on line, so please guys and gals, show a little virtuous patience !! 

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Wow, the patch was added this morning. Usually I can get some time in prior to going to work but this morning I wasn't able to due to the patch being implemented. NOW, we are on 18 pages of stuff concerning the changes. What I like to know is how in posidens pitch fork did you all play and test everything to come with the conclusions you have about the changes?

Its a New Day, New Tactic, New Strategy. A new way to play the game. Change the way you currently think about the game. I know I am and cannot wait to try some of this out when I can get home and play.

Dooms Day the game already and the changes are only about 6 hours old, give me a break...........

Edited by Jean LaPointe
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