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Capt Warren Loly

P2P or F2P?

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what you said  is not pay to play

 

pay to play is based on a monthly fee like WoW or TES online.

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what you said  is not pay to play

 

pay to play is based on a monthly fee like WoW or TES online.

 

That's IMO not correct. P2P merely describes a business model where a customer has to pay to actually be able to play a game, in contrast to a free to play game. Whether this is done via monthly fees or one-time purchase is of no relevance.

 

What you are thinking of is a subscription-based business model.

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payment model will be similar to Guild Wars 2.

I wont mind paying more for say a pirate'ish looking ship, something like a snow.

Like give those who want the ability to support the project more than once and get something mostly cosmetic/not P2W for it pls.

tldr take my money

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Thought game was like minecraft with the buying once thing like someone mentioned before but after reading through this thread, even more confused and a little worried. I have no problem with cash or item shops but something like what was said: "that doesn't rule out a cash shop for some items that don't give any benefits" is type of thing that gives sends warning flag. For devs the word "Benefits" can have a very broad definition that is very (and conveniently) open to interpretation. For instance, there are some who don't believe selling legendary lv.100 equipment to fresh lv.1 newbies is not a benefit. Don't mean to labor a point but this is literally one of first major things I investigate in a new release, free or not.

 

Also my other question about game specs. It was answered with something like  "as long as it takes Dx11" which did not exactly clarify. I understand that the game is still in beta but was hoping for some kind of minimum requirement table like:

 

(Ex. from Don't Starve Together)

 

MINIMUM:
OS: Windows Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8
Processor: 1.7+ GHz or better
Memory: 1 GB RAM
Graphics: Radeon HD5450 or better; 256 MB or higher
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Hard Drive: 500 MB available space
Sound Card: 100% DirectX9.0c compatible sound card and drivers

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For instance, there are some who don't believe selling legendary lv.100 equipment to fresh lv.1 newbies is not a benefit. Don't mean to labor a point but this is literally one of first major things I investigate in a new release, free or not.

 

Also my other question about game specs. It was answered with something like  "as long as it takes Dx11" which did not exactly clarify. I understand that the game is still in beta but was hoping for some kind of minimum requirement table like:

 

first its alpha

second there wont be any fancy legendary fantasy stuff.

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was hoping for some kind of minimum requirement table like:

They can impossibly come up with requirements right now, as much of the game is yet to be created, added and benchmarked. When the game is nearing ready for release to the public I'd expect that the developers can come up with minimal and optimal system requirements.

Right now just make sure you got a "good" PC with (which is a MUST HAVE at the current stage) a graphics card that can handle DirectX 11.

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Alright, well from what little else I could gather, seems prudent to wait it out until there is sufficient input from others and more content is released. Right now I'm unable to get some idea as to where this is going. Have tried a few other alphas so I can only draw from that limited experience.

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I like P2P It keeps people from having a ton of accounts and cross teaming. if you go F2P I think you will have way to many Crossteamers.  

Most people who want to cross team are going to be happy paying for a second, third or even fourth account, I have have numerous times, even running 4 accounts in Eve online for ten years which is a p2p and requires a monthly sub.

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I di have a lot of hours of funs with Guilds War and should ba happy with this sort of game. ;)

But also I should be happy to pay a little more for some addition if it is made by the  dev team not any outside not payd guys. :(

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Well, I hope there isn't much in the way of a cash shop. Even if it's more or less cosmetic, that means paint-styles, flags, or sails that I won't get to enjoy myself (other than by shooting holes in them), unless I shell out more money. If pre-orders are grandfathered into everything (which I in no way expect), it means the same thing for someone else who bought it later.

 

There's a time and place for each pricing scheme, but in competitive multiplayer games, nickel and diming gamers is bad juju. I'd rather see a permanent tip jar or a Patreon.

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Just pay for the game and play it?This game will be big (i bought it the instant i heard of it) developers will be loaded. None of this eve p2p crowd or wot f2p buzz for me.

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I'm for the pay once play forever, and lock nations to account so if you have a British character the rest of the characters you make must be British.  One way to make it so people dont make 50 accounts to do econ is to make the Econ not so tedious and take a decade to build anything

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Anyone who thinks a Free 2 play model will not be Pay2Win is delusional.  a free to play game CANNOT financially sustain itself unless it offers rewards that advance the players abilities.

 

There has not been, nor ever will be a free to play model that has NO pay2win mechanic.

 

I almost pre ordered this game and I am glad that PayPal stopped me.  if this goes Free2play,  I will never buy it.

 

 

In my mind, there is only one way to distribute this game, and that is as a full price (aaa title) release one off purchase, no pay 2 win shop, and then, one off payment transaction for expansions to game.

 

Free 2 play, I won't touch it with a 40 foot barge pole......EVER!

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Anyone who thinks a Free 2 play model will not be Pay2Win is delusional.  a free to play game CANNOT financially sustain itself unless it offers rewards that advance the players abilities.

 

There has not been, nor ever will be a free to play model that has NO pay2win mechanic.

 

I almost pre ordered this game and I am glad that PayPal stopped me.  if this goes Free2play,  I will never buy it.

 

 

In my mind, there is only one way to distribute this game, and that is as a full price (aaa title) release one off purchase, no pay 2 win shop, and then, one off payment transaction for expansions to game.

 

Free 2 play, I won't touch it with a 40 foot barge pole......EVER!

First of all, I disagree with your argument here. Pay to advance is in my book perfectly fine. Same goes for cosmetical stuff. And there are plenty of Free-To-Play games that use these mechanics and are sticking to it. However there are those out there that are downright awful.

 

This will be buy/pay to play, like GW2 or Elite:Dangerous, with added miscrotransactions, I reckon. So no need to get on your high horse so quickly already.

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Buy-Once with cosmetic micro-transactions - The servers will need to be financed someway and selling a bit of paint and scrollwork (to reflect ship renaming changes) will help defray the server costs. It's either micro-transactions or a monthly sub to keep the server hamsters fed.

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Wicked mouse, there is no high horse here.  if you re-read my post, my point was there is no free to play in existence that is not pay to win.

 

I missed the post where its confirmed that you won't be able to buy advanced items, in game currency, xp boosters, for real money (all of which are pay to win mechanics).  care to point me in that direction.

 

Ok with a one off cost, happy with that, but not interested in being able (or forced to as per a lot of games) in the mechanics above.  I have no problems with cosmetic transactions, or extra world area expansions for a fee.

 

But that is my opinion, its a forum, I have not broken any forum rules, so no need for childish "high horse" comments

 

[edit]. Just for clarity, I am happy that its not going free to play, now just clarification on store.

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Anyone who thinks a Free 2 play model will not be Pay2Win is delusional

Consider me delusional then.

 

There are PLENTY f2p games w/o p2w: LOL, DOTA, DOTA2, Warthunder, WOT, SMITE, Aion, L2 (EU) and many many more.

 

I guess you misinterpret p2w definition. P2W is when user can purchase for real money items BETTER than the ones that are available for in game currency, or ones giving him advantage in PVP. 

 

Skins, xp/gold boosters, premium vehicles (like ones available in WOT/WT) do not give you any advantage in PVP, so can`t be considered as P2W system.

Ball on you side.

 

 

 

if this goes Free2play,  I will never buy it.

 

So you say you will NOT BUY a FREE game? Huh? :D

 

Making game b2p will not solve the problem with crossteaming - there will be plenty guys to purchase more than 1 copy. Which is good for studio finances, but can abuse gameplay. There are plenty dev tools to avoid multiboxing, allowing users to run only 1 client from IP. 

 

But... 

 

Are we really sure that there are enough players willing to buy the game, to sustain satisfying playerbase, while there are so many great f2p games around? 

 

Make it f2p with some cosmetics, custom ship/crew looks, even with boosters and premium accounts (Im fine with PA, as long it`s not WOT model, where you can`t afford to repair you tank on 8+ tier, w/o funds from PA).

Make f2p with good and restrictive report/punishments system for leavers/afkers/offenders.

 

I promise you will have playerbase with both quality and quantity. 

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I for one would not play the game if there was a monthly fee - this is not the only game I play nor will I be playing much in the summer months. 

I've paid once for the game and I would be happy if it had a similar payment structure to WOT - where you can buy premium but not essential items

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Wicked mouse, there is no high horse here.  if you re-read my post, my point was there is no free to play in existence that is not pay to win.

 

I missed the post where its confirmed that you won't be able to buy advanced items, in game currency, xp boosters, for real money (all of which are pay to win mechanics).  care to point me in that direction.

 

Ok with a one off cost, happy with that, but not interested in being able (or forced to as per a lot of games) in the mechanics above.  I have no problems with cosmetic transactions, or extra world area expansions for a fee.

 

But that is my opinion, its a forum, I have not broken any forum rules, so no need for childish "high horse" comments

 

[edit]. Just for clarity, I am happy that its not going free to play, now just clarification on store.

 

You sir don't know the meaning of P2W go to POTBS that is a clear example of P2W 

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For clarity and by definition, anything you can buy in game for real money that improves your performance, ranking, statistics or advancements is pay to win.

 

That includes xp boosters, gold boosters, premium items

 

Its all in the game mechanics. 

 

Here are some examples.  take MechWarrior online, whose creators swear its not pay to win.

 

Some mechs cannot be purchased unless bought with MC which can only be obtained by real money - pay to win

MechWarrior has significantly nerved the amount of in game revenue obtainable to make levelling a clan set of mechs so expensive that its unreasonable to do it free to play.  so you will need to spend money to get the mechs you want in order to level them for max performance on the field.  -pay to win

 

If you do buy a much for real money you will get xp bonus and chills bonus over a guy who does not. - pay to win.

 

Of course, play the game long enough and you can theoretically purchase most items in game.  But by spending real cash, you can get what you want a lot quicker which is pay to win.

 

So any examples mentioned above which you say are not pay to win, but you can actually advance FASTER with cash than someone without is pay to win.

 

 

At the end of the day, all I am saying is, I don't want pay to win and I hope you don't either, but that is your choice.  As I have played countless games who swear not pay to win but have either obvious or subtle mechanics that require THE AVERAGE GAMER to spend extra money to advance at an appropriate rate.

 

As for customer base, I think you are incorrect saying a free to play model is the only way.  I play many niche games, some with exceptionally high purchase cost (well over 100 dollars for base games).  This mechanic seems to work well with them.

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Any MMO that comes on to the market I have always been fine with a subscription base model if there ever was one.  Goes back to the days of Ultima Online and Everquest in 1997 and 1999.  Always saw it as providing support for the game developers and paying to help keep the game servers/wages so they can continue to release new content and move the sim forward.

There are so many sub based games released that are still successful and going strong compare to free to play games which have failed due to bad business models lack of investment.

 

If its a business model where you buy the game for a set fee and you play for free with cash shop modifications (cosmetic) that are not pay to win, I am fine with that. (GW2)

 

If its a business model where you buy then game for a set fee and then you pay a monthly subscription (WoW, EvE, ESO) I am fine with that business model.

 

Unfortunately the gaming market has been saturated over the last 6-7 years of so many F2P games that have been badly made, executed and just plainly makes the gaming world look bad, its a fad and wont last long.

 

I think we have a cross over of two generations here, those who like myself grew up with good mmos and you pay them a monthly sub to release new content/running of servers and paying their wages, and the generations of kids/young people who coming through the ranks now who expect everything to be put on the plate for free or minimal fee.

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