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[PvP1] The Dutch Join the War Against France


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Kaïr an Horail are here to listen you. They don't agree on anythings and they are not there to approve or disaproove what you say. 

 

BTW At the time where we are at Castries yes you don't want a separate white peace. Again, don't re-whrote history, thanks. 

 

edit: Thanks for your surprise gold. 

Edited by whynotfr
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Our council is working hard and you should expect our proposal pretty soon. In the meantime I can give you a picture of our last meating ^^  

I followed that topic from the very begining. I didn't want to participate to those strong talking, I don't really enjoy clashes, or any very long debate, but this is too much for me...     First o

 

Kaïr an Horail are here to listen you. They don't agree on anythings and they are not there to approve or disaproove what you say.

You don´t get the point of diplomacy, don´t u? It´s about to find solutions to make two parties happy even they disagree on certain points.

 

 

BTW At the time where we are at Castries yes you don't want a separate white peace. Again, don't re-whrote history, thanks.

Not sure if I understand what u try to say...

 

 

 

edit: Thanks for your surprise gold.

U will get additional duras the next weeks. Have fun with it. Mhm, maybe Scarborough tomorrow... ;)

Edited by praefect
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Kaïr an Horail are here to listen you. They don't agree on anythings and they are not there to approve or disaproove what you say. 

 

BTW At the time where we are at Castries yes you don't want a separate white peace. Again, don't re-whrote history, thanks. 

 

edit: Thanks for your surprise gold. 

 

Thank you sir for your affirmation. To bad it had to come to the forums.

 

Can you please affirm you are talking on behalf of the French Council, so we can present the right information towards the Dutch Council for a proper ruling on it?  I don't want it to be held against me that we are just talking about your opinion in the French Council and not about the actual opinion of the French Council.

 

Thanks in advance.

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Thank you sir for your affirmation. To bad it had to come to the forums.

 

Can you please affirm you are talking on behalf of the French Council, so we can present the right information towards the Dutch Council for a proper ruling on it?  I don't want it to be held against me that we are just talking about your opinion in the French Council and not about the actual opinion of the French Council.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I can only confirmed that he cannot speak in the name of the french council. The actual and only official diplomate (seen as the only one allow to write official communication about what the council has decided with the dutch and swedes nation) is kierrip..

 

Every other talks are only personnal opinion.

 

So atm if kierrip didn't wrote that, it's just not an official decision of the french council.

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I personally had a really good impression of Horail and Kaiir. Had the feeling, that there was a rly good understanding and personal trust, so I enjoyed the talks. Would like to continue with that. :)

 

Can some other french council member approve that statement? Because no further time investments are needed so. Still don´t know if its a language barrier or some culture stuff...

 

Im for contuinue talks with Kair and Horail too. Talks with those guys are moving things forward and there is at least some kind of thread of undersatnding each other.

 

@whynotfr

 

If you are member of French Councill, then looks like u wasnt informed about all our peace proposals.Those were many in different stages of war, and only once we made proposal which included ports in south-east corner for us and Swedes asked for part of Guadelupe. It was when you were beaten hard and all up to Castries from south and whole, or allmost whole Guadelupe was in Swedish hands. As Preafect counted at this point when we made this proposal you were -26 ports since start of war. In your opinion we should just give you all back at this point and say to our PvP players "thx for fighting, we'll get nothing from this war, lets have fun from PvP in future"?

 

Every other peace propossal were "white peace" (it means to end war and get back to borders like before war), and i cant even count how many proposals of "white peace" we gave you, even before we conquered south-east. Everytime your diplos, usually Kierrip said "NO" couse of something not precised exactly. And now when u have 3 our ports and we're coming again with proposal of white peace again you saying no "couse those were french ports in January". I remember 1st FRA-VP war and peace after this war. We were winning and u were beaten badly after "black friday" and for you loosing only Pampatar, Galdonas and Carupano was in fact gift from us and your side were thankfull for those peace terms, couse ppl from French nation were just switching nation or leaving game after "black friday" and we gave you terms of pece which guaranteed u to save your community. So pls dont write about taking back "french" Pampatar, Carupano and Galdonas, becouse if we'll behave in past like you're behaving now, u'r community will be destroyed long ago in February.

Then, after 1st war we gave you passage to Brits and allowed you to make "Tour de France", you dont remeber this too? Sadly I dont remeber any favour toward us from French, and we asking you just for one: White peace now, and as answer we allways hear "NO!".

Edited by Glazo
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It's like trying to get a unified response from an anarchistic community.

 

640px-Thomas_Rowlandson_-_A_Mad_Dog_in_a

 

Maybe even proposals - not just finalized agreements - oughta be posted on the forum in the future to counteract the misinformation and language barriers (at least google translate doesn't deliberately misconstrue things). Transparency. ^^

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I can only confirmed that he cannot speak in the name of the french council. The actual and only official diplomate (seen as the only one allow to write official communication about what the council has decided with the dutch and swedes nation) is kierrip..

 

Every other talks are only personnal opinion.

 

So atm if kierrip didn't wrote that, it's just not an official decision of the french council.

 

Thank you, Horail. Your quick response is much appreciated. I suspected as much. I don't want things to derail because of an unthoughtful moment of individuals.

 

Could you please inform your Council that my Council is growing restless and find themselves left in the dark at the moment on the position of the French Council on this matter? Everyone is coming out of the woodwork now with all kinds of statements and opinions which is not a preferable route.

 

My Council would just like to know if your Council thinks peace through a white peace is a feasible option so they can prepare a proper ruling and a decent response towards your Nation. You can use the proper connections of Praefect and Glazo to relay the answer to. We would like a return answer tomorrow evening before our national meeting to prevent a ruling that goes without your Councils input and the likely chance the ruling gives a decision that prevent furhter talks.

 

Thank you in advance and bonne chance.

Edited by Lytse Pier
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It's like trying to get a unified response from an anarchistic community.

640px-Thomas_Rowlandson_-_A_Mad_Dog_in_a

Maybe even proposals - not just finalized agreements - oughta be posted on the forum in the future to counteract the misinformation and language barriers (at least google translate doesn't deliberately misconstrue things). Transparency. ^^

Well the proposal should only be in this forum as a topic to end a war mere an announcement. not to see what the rest of the world thinks about it that should only be for the nation who are involveld the matter. We are not going to say for example!! In a peace proposal between british and pirates, british should have an alliance with pirates me as a dutchie, frenchie or what ever it is only pirates and british should go to their own community to inform and see if they have some other ideas. Sometimes they have but do not say no all the time because you lost 3 ports over 4 months ago. We are also not complaining about the fact we lost panama for example or Oranjestad. Get over it. It is a dynamic game we don't have any borders unless we chose to in this case borders are harbours. Edited by pietjenoob
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I remember 1st FRA-VP war and peace after this war. We were winning and u were beaten badly after "black friday" and for you loosing only Pampatar, Galdonas and Carupano was in fact gift from us and your side were thankfull for those peace terms, couse ppl from French nation were just switching nation or leaving game after "black friday" and we gave you terms of pece which guaranteed u to save your community.

 

Maybe we shouldn't talk about black friday. it's far, the game mecanism changed, ports are less usefull (for the moment), but maybe i should remember that Carupano and galdonas wasn't dutch or french on the treaty but it was part of the PVP zone "galdonas/carupano/scarborough and eltoco" that both nation could attack but have to let it undefended the next day.

 

So the only really affected port is pampatar no ? 

 

i could also remember that black friday happen were we didn't have our fleet connected one weekend (seems that you are in the same position as we were, but in my point of you, it's more like a "Black week" for you).

 

Fortunatly or unfortunatly, some of our player saw that your nation is actualy not fully engaged in the war since you do not have enought player to make us engage you fairly and don't want to engage the war to 1 port because the game may have some problems and lot of players stopped the game or rerolled pirates..

 

 

 

Then, after 1st war we gave you passage to Brits and allowed you to make "Tour de France", you dont remeber this too?

 

that remerber one thing to me, we should talk more ;-)

 

Maybe i'm wrong but someone wrote (a dutch player if y don't make a mistake) that you didn't really wanted to allow us to go there but some one had forced you to or something like that (maybe the dans but i'm not really sure ;-) )

 

Don't take my post as an offical position, i just resume what i read and try to figure out why all the point of view are so different.

 

As whynot sayed, i do not approve or disaprove anything, my thought belong to me (atm)

 

I'm sure we'll find a solution,we just need to figure out what and how should it be

Edited by horail
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I would their should be negotiation not a power play that helps nobody you can only demand stuff if a nation is a one portminor for example or strip them of of any usefull resource. But demanding ports whilst you only have 5 ports for example that is powerplay. Everybody has demands but they have to be realistic and negotiobable.

Edited by pietjenoob
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Maybe we shouldn't talk about black friday. it's far, the game mecanism changed, ports are less usefull (for the moment), but maybe i should remember that Carupano and galdonas wasn't dutch or french on the treaty but it was part of the PVP zone "galdonas/carupano/scarborough and eltoco" that both nation could attack but have to let it undefended the next day.

 

So the only really affected port is pampatar no ? 

 

i could also remember that black friday happen were we didn't have our fleet connected one weekend (seems that you are in the same position as we were, but in my point of you, it's more like a "Black week" for you).

 

Fortunatly or unfortunatly, some of our player saw that your nation is actualy not fully engaged in the war since you do not have enought player to make us engage you fairly and don't want to engage the war to 1 port because the game may have some problems and lot of players stopped the game or rerolled pirates..

 

 

that remerber one thing to me, we should talk more ;-)

 

Maybe i'm wrong but someone wrote (a dutch player if y don't make a mistake) that you didn't really wanted to allow us to go there but some one had forced you to or something like that (maybe the dans but i'm not really sure ;-) )

 

Don't take my post as an offical position, i just resume what i read and try to figure out why all the point of view are so different.

 

I whynot sayed, i do not approve or disaprove anything, my thought belong to me (atm)

 

I'm sure we'll find a solution,we just need to figure out what and how should it be

 

If you could read my post above, I'd appreciate it. It is not about what we can or cannot do as a Dutch Nation, it is about what we'd like to do, and for one that is not reliving a third French War like it was groundhog day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVeDx9fk60

Edited by Lytse Pier
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Thank you, Horail. Your quick response is much appreciated. I suspected as much. I don't want things to derail because of an unthoughtful moment of individuals.

 

Could you please inform your Council that my Council is growing restless and find themselves left in the dark at the moment on the position of the French Council on this matter? Everyone is coming out of the woodwork now with all kinds of statements and opinions which is not a preferable route.

 

My Council would just like to know if your Council thinks peace through a white peace is a feasible option so they can prepare a proper ruling and a decent response towards your Nation. You can use the proper connections of Praefect and Glazo to relay the answer to. We would like a return answer tomorrow evening before our national meeting to prevent a ruling that goes without your Councils input and the likely chance the ruling gives a decision that prevent furhter talks.

 

Thank you in advance and bonne chance.

 

You're welcome lytse Pier.

 

I think most of the council member are actually reading these posts, so you should have an offical answer of your demand quickly.

Kierrip will answer you as soon as possible (he aslo have a real life so he will do what he can).

 

In order to dispel doubts maybe you could explain your point of view of white peace, (port situation, pvp situation, what belong to who) so that everyone can't denied what is written and like that the council we be able to clearly know what you're talking about.

 

regards

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You're welcome lytse Pier.

 

I think most of the council member are actually reading these posts, so you should have an offical answer of your demand quickly.

Kierrip will answer you as soon as possible (he aslo have a real life so he will do what he can).

 

In order to dispel doubts maybe you could explain your point of view of white peace, (port situation, pvp situation, what belong to who) so that everyone can't denied what is written and like that the council we be able to clearly know what you're talking about.

 

regards

 

Yes sir, it was a bit obscured by the other posts in the thread, but here it is again:

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14010-pvp1-the-dutch-join-the-war-against-france/?p=271056

 

A simple yes or no from your Council should suffice.

 

Edit: and it's a request, not a demand.  ;)

Edited by Lytse Pier
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i've was writting mine when you wrote yours ;-) i wrote slowly ;-)

sorry

 

No worries, I am sure the last posts have cleared up a lot of noise on the landline and the Dutch question is as clear as the French answer tomorrow.

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Maybe we shouldn't talk about black friday. it's far, the game mecanism changed, ports are less usefull (for the moment), but maybe i should remember that Carupano and galdonas wasn't dutch or french on the treaty but it was part of the PVP zone "galdonas/carupano/scarborough and eltoco" that both nation could attack but have to let it undefended the next day.

With the creation of the alliance, an attack of ur ally partner would be (and will be in future) some kind of green on green, so older agreements were outdated.

But as I said already multiple times, we are always open for gentlemen war´s, joint limited war missions for RPG, arranged PBs, and so on and so on... To have some kind of actions like this, both communities need a base of trust and respect towards each other, which is also linked to the diplomacy work of both parties.

 

 

 

Maybe i'm wrong but someone wrote (a dutch player if y don't make a mistake) that you didn't really wanted to allow us to go there but some one had forced you to or something like that (maybe the dans but i'm not really sure ;-) )

As far I remember, danes "warned" us, if we would not allow french to pass, french and danes would attack us. I think in the end it was a mix of looking for a break and giving the french what they need.

 

 

 

In order to dispel doubts maybe you could explain your point of view of white peace, (port situation, pvp situation, what belong to who) so that everyone can't denied what is written and like that the council we be able to clearly know what you're talking about.

 

regards

That´s not an official statement, just my prediction where the council could agree on:

- swedes get a fair peace proposal and want to accept that

- dutch-french relations will change (better) significantly, especially in terms of diplomacy

- french nation makes a white peace proposal to us (situation like before the war: pampatar, carupano, galdonas will stay dutch ports)

 

Based on that, nearly all kind of additions could be possible, which gives fun to both communities...

 

 

 

I actually fear, that we are making progress here...^^

Edited by praefect
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well, i've read lytse pier post again (http://forum.game-la...rance/?p=271056)

 

I can clearly understand it because i've talked a lot with praefect and i can understand you point of view (that dosn't meens i approved or disaprove it).

 

But for most of the french nation there is something that is maybe not clear.

 

 

 

Our proposal is and was to get back to the status-quo there was after the first war, assign a few ports in the east for the active captains of the Eastern Clans to duke it out, leaving both nations in the positions to concentrate on a more prosperous future. Win-win, and in my view a great sign of mutual respect for both communities; it seems as fair as it is currently possible now and we are willing to go, judging the current readiness of both war fleets.

 

the status-quo after the first war ? i think that should be detailed

 

 

 

- dutch-french relations will change (better) significantly, especially in terms of diplomacy

- french nations makes an white peace proposal to us (situation like before the war: pampatar, carupano, galdonas will stay dutch ports)

 

_We are trying, communications between french and dutch are, on my thought, improving. I'm wrong ?

 

_i've remebered earlier that on the latest treaty that was officialy wrote on the forum, it seems that carupano, galdonas, scarborogh and el toco was neither french or dutch it was a PVP zone, maybe someone could link me an other post saying that these port were affected to both nation.

 

 

i just want to be sure that everyone is talking about the same things. when everyone will agree on "the words" of the treaty, it will be easier for all of us to see what is your need..

 

because i am not a official diplomate, i'm not allowed by my council to interpret your words. At the moment, you must see me more as a conciliator rather than a diplomate.

Edited by horail
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I respect a lot ur efforts here horail. :)

 

 

_We are trying, communications between french and dutch are, on my thought, improving. I'm wrong ?

 

Here yes, there no. We enjoyed the big progress we made with u and Kaiir through proper and respectful talks.

But on the other hand what we could read here from french council members and common french captains is a new low-point in relations, enough that people are motivated to continue the war for a long time. Also all this kind of desinformation is pretty much annoying. No dutch diplo wants to invest so much time again in clarifying things, that should be self-explaining or sorted out within the diplo talks.

 

 

 

_i've remebered earlier that on the latest treaty that was officialy wrote on the forum, it seems that carupano, galdonas, scarborogh and el toco was neither french or dutch it was a PVP zone, maybe someone could link me an other post saying that these port were affected to both nation.

 

i just want to be sure that everyone is talking about the same things. when everyone will agree on "the words" of the treaty, it will be easier for all of us to see what is your need..

 

That´s not correct. These ports belong to the pvp-PB-zone, yes. We agreed on 2 dutch ports and 2 french ports and nobody could claim them for more than 24 hours. After the alliance, it would have been a green on green, so peace treaty was changed for alliance treaty, where pvp zone was no longer part of. But again, we can talk about to start this again, after we came back to the status quo before the war and bettered relations. ;)

 

 

 

because i am not a official diplomate, i'm not allowed by my council to interpret your words. At the moment, you must see me more as a conciliator rather than a diplomate.

So far it works. ;)

Edited by praefect
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Praefect never propose frencha white peace. He has spoken about peace without going further zs i daid him french would refuse thé peace.

Not any time he get further in the peace idea. A peace was necessary for him to help thé british and attack thé pirates. Making the peace means for french not attacking brit what is violating our free choice. So our answer was no any time. And not any time the proposal was : #white peace this war is bullshit, let get back your port and do whztever you want".

When you were around Castries french hzd 2 choice.

Making peace with britain and loose 4 ports on north for swedish and some port on south for dutch or refusong to mzke peace and lost 14 post.

No proposal fot whitr peace here.

This clear information has been transfert to french council in real time each week.

Threat me z lier? We will not praefect write thé history as hé want. He should have been more smart as start. Saying to have been honnorable is easier than beeing honnorable. I never say i m nice or have been. I just transfert your diplo view on ou council.

Now we see one more time a dutch few days ago. Je co firm us our information about you...

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Praefect never propose frencha white peace. He has spoken about peace without going further zs i daid him french would refuse thé peace.

Not any time he get further in the peace idea. A peace was necessary for him to help thé british and attack thé pirates. Making the peace means for french not attacking brit what is violating our free choice. So our answer was no any time. And not any time the proposal was : #white peace this war is bullshit, let get back your port and do whztever you want".

When you were around Castries french hzd 2 choice.

Making peace with britain and loose 4 ports on north for swedish and some port on south for dutch or refusong to mzke peace and lost 14 post.

No proposal fot whitr peace here.

This clear information has been transfert to french council in real time each week.

Threat me z lier? We will not praefect write thé history as hé want. He should have been more smart as start. Saying to have been honnorable is easier than beeing honnorable. I never say i m nice or have been. I just transfert your diplo view on ou council.

Now we see one more time a dutch few days ago. Je co firm us our information about you...

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?

Are you diplomatic twins 

in the other first*  one you talk different then the second* other one :D

 

just a joke

carry on pls

Edited by Thonys
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Praefect never propose frencha white peace. He has spoken about peace without going further zs i daid him french would refuse thé peace.

...

 

A french diplo goes to the swedes ts and says: "we are at war now, we gonna craft flags in 10 mins" -> french suppose this as an official statement

2 dutch diplo´s try over weeks to find acceptance for a white peace and invest hour over hour (u can find also posts in forum that indicate that). French diplo refuses for unclear reasons -> french say the proposal was not "official" or "detailed" enough

 

So my questions:

How we can make the dutch diplos more "official" and what more details are needed to understand what "white peace" means?

And why it was not possible to clarify stuff like this in these numerous talks?

For what we wasted so much time in the end?

What did the french do the first 2,5 weeks where french side could had offered a peace?

Why can´t the french diplomacy be constructive to find solutions, why there are only "No´s" so far?

And what´s too hard to understand in that we would defend the brits, if the french want to punsh them too hard? Is the british community less worth than the french one?

 

 

 

Making the peace means for french not attacking brit what is violating our free choice. So our answer was no any time.

Funny thing is, back that time, brits were no topic for the peace at all, cos they were still doing good. First time the "brits question" became important/was raised, when we stood in front of ur capitol. Since that time brits had a rly hard time. So another disinformation within the french.

 

 

 

Making peace with britain and loose 4 ports on north for swedish and some port on south for dutch or refusong to mzke peace and lost 14 post.

No proposal fot whitr peace here.

 

That was our last proposal AFTER we asked so many times for white peace. But thank you Plerrick, now the dutch know who spreads the disinformation. There is actually no point for further talks with you if the dutch cannot believe in that all the information find their way into the french community / council.

 

 

 

 

Threat me z lier? We will not praefect write thé history as hé want. He should have been more smart as start. Saying to have been honnorable is easier than beeing honnorable. I never say i m nice or have been. I just transfert your diplo view on ou council.

Now we see one more time a dutch few days ago. Je co firm us our information about you...

 

And once again Plerrick, u r allowed/free to speak with glazo or icceman instead of me, but ur continuous tries to harm my reputation as a diplomat are a bit too obvious to work out and only lead to dislikes within the dutch. Also you should not attack ur counterpart in a language he can´t understand. Since u told us that u consider [PFK] as enemies of the french nation, u might also not like to talk with glazo or icceman (who will definitely invest less time in talks than I did).

So in the end the dutch nation needs a new diplomat for dealing with the french/you and so we gonna look for a new one. Maybe the french council could do the same favor for us.

Edited by praefect
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Praefect never propose frencha white peace. He has spoken about peace without going further zs i daid him french would refuse thé peace.

Not any time he get further in the peace idea. A peace was necessary for him to help thé british and attack thé pirates. Making the peace means for french not attacking brit what is violating our free choice. So our answer was no any time. And not any time the proposal was : #white peace this war is bullshit, let get back your port and do whztever you want".

When you were around Castries french hzd 2 choice.

Making peace with britain and loose 4 ports on north for swedish and some port on south for dutch or refusong to mzke peace and lost 14 post.

No proposal fot whitr peace here.

This clear information has been transfert to french council in real time each week.

Threat me z lier? We will not praefect write thé history as hé want. He should have been more smart as start. Saying to have been honnorable is easier than beeing honnorable. I never say i m nice or have been. I just transfert your diplo view on ou council.

Now we see one more time a dutch few days ago. Je co firm us our information about you...

If you say we are not honnorable then you are really ignorent. We, as the nation in general were not very happy, in fact a pretty angry tbh, that the french declared war on the swedish. We risked our relationship with the brits so you could fight them. The only we want and that still is and will be stop looking at the British and get back to the game and see your true enemy and that are those damn pirates. We have a saying for that: the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

If you don't get this then there is no hope for the french part who follow kerrieb. Unfortunaly to say

Edited by pietjenoob
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Goodmorning Kierrip,

 

Thank you also for responding swiftly. I am sent out not to discuss, nor judge, as only history will judge the participants. I am only here because we take the French input, seen as a respected and mature player group, towards an important ruling of us very seriously. Our diplomats are sent forth to come back to the Council with an answer to the question if a white peace is feasible in order that my Council can make a proper ruling with also the French players group's input.

 

We, like mentioned in my previous posts, are in principle for peace in the eastern waters but a perpetual war against the French is also fine as you are good opponents. Our community however does not benefit from it as "sailing east" and fighting you guys a third time is becoming rather repetitive. I am sure it must be for you guys too sometimes. A white peace with PvP area containing a few ping-pong-ports between Trinidad and Isla de Margarita could be a solution, but our biggest question is if the French are also in principal for a white peace and a refocus of the east.

 

If you would be so kind to assess the mood of your Council in finding a different "total war" enemy than the Dutch, and return the answer to our inquiry for a white peace, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

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