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Éric

[PvP1] France joins the war against Sweden

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To get some facts in here:

First and foremost:

Sweden had a truce with the Danes, that allowed open-world PvP except for mission jumping and attacking player traders, port-attacks were not allowed at all.

France and Sweden were at peace with eachother, despite several French clans raiding Swedish waters nearly constantly... while DRUNK actually stopped their raids.

Now to the timeline: Sweden supported the Dutch against the Pirates (allies of the French) who attacked several Dutch cities, which caused Sweden and the Dutch to fight in the Haiti-Area solely against the Pirates, while some cooperation with the Britsh had to be done to keep the neutral stance.

France threatened Sweden to not fight the Pirates (without any word about their allies attacking their other allies) and the Danes even threatened the Dutch and Swedes to at least stay out of the southern-Haiti area, so that the Danes could fight the British better.

The Dutch, supported by the Swedish no matter their decision, denied the Danish threat towards them to stay in the Haiti-area to fight a foe who was raiding Dutch home-waters.

The French threat towards Sweden remained unanswered by Sweden, a reaction by the French didn't happened.

Instead of the Danes attacking the Southern-Haiti-Ports they gave Road-Town to the Pirates to allow them to attack Swedish-Homewaters (which they did), a proxy-war started by the Danes against Sweden.

Road-Town was thus taken by the Swedish forces and the start of negotiations with the Danish were expected. Instead the Danes attacked the now Swedish controlled port without warning nor negotiations.

Sweden thus took Fort-Baai with the same(!) reasoning the Danes gave regarding Roadtown.

What followed was the Danish declaration of war against Sweden.

They threatened us first, they fought a proxy-war against us, they took and attacked first Swedish ports... but Sweden is the aggressor? Nope.

Simulataneously:

French "rogue"-clans took Saint-George and Basse-Terre, something that was said shouldn't have happened and the ports were given back to Sweden without big problems.

Afterwards the CSNF demanded both ports back, which was o.K. for Sweden under the condition to give the Swedish players 1 day time to bring ships out of these ports and to shift ressources, that the CSNF will have to pay the players a certain amount of gold to be determined for shifting outposts and mines AND for the French staying out of any conflict that may happen between Sweden and the Danes. Condition that seemed to be o.K. with the French because they took their ports back without any other counter-offer.

War escalated with the Danes and the French joined 3(!) days later against the Swedish, backstabbing the agreement regarding Saint-George and Basse-Terre, with the point of helping their allies against "aggressive Swedes" (it is the opposite as can be seen above) and because of DRUNK raiding French players (while French rogue-clans could easily take Swedish ports, without a big outcry on Swedish side, with Drunk not raiding the French for weeks before the war, except for a single time that was dealt with).

And Sweden is now the aggressor?

Let's face it:

 

 

as far as i can recall this is ..

 

True...

 

 

Lets face it...

for me as a dutch captain sailing my waters 

i suddenly was attacked by French                 (?)

 

well let me tell you this , i have a fir wooden plank on board.

and when i see any french ship on the horizon

i will capture it........

 

and  i   let  that  captain  walk the plank  of  his  own  fir  wooden  captured  ship

 

you see ........be trail is a unforgivable act of friendship....

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"Wanna be friends ?"

 

"Damn right hope not !!!!! No hugging you .... you.... ... MAN THE GUNS !!!!"

 

Black_Dog.png

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No one of you have the athourity to have diplomatics talks with french on the behalf of the Swedish council.

There is no diplomatic relations and it will not be any.

So, I sugest that you guys just drop it

It is just a waste of time.

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We hate the British so much, any attack on the pirates means war.

 

 

Your post in a nutshell.

The fact that you consider the pirates a nation, and not pirates, speaks volumes about you.

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Swedish neutrality is no more than a sweet memory Eric, Your want for diplomacy honors France , but  they have found now their home in the Hydra´s Belly

 

2Hy9mHB.png?1

 

I like how you're trying to twist the unmatched generosity of Britain against them.

 

Sweden is a well respected ally because they're decent, reasonable and polite.

You Spanish are none of that. That's why Mexico is red. No other reason.

  • Like 3

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I find it interesting to hear that some of the four parties are not looking for a war, yet they seem to be doing everything in their power to let it prolong, can someone maybe explain that to me?

 

Dishonesty.

 

During the Aves PB before the patch, where the French beat an even Swedish fleet, the battle was streamed by a swedish player, and a couple of French players - including Kierrip - came into the channel after the victory to boast and gloat. Kierrip wanted more ships to come to them so he can sink them. This is literally what he said. Kierrip wants this war. EdR want this war.

 

 

In my experience with internet communities if you want to reach some kind of conclusion or compromise you should TALK not WRITE & READ.

 

 

Language barrier makes this impossible.

Edited by Quineloe

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Being perfectly clear, it's obvious to see that France decided to pick which side it was on in the server-wide scale of things. Rather than risking Danish aggression again, they have chosen to appeal to their regional power's best interests by attacking the Swedish, regardless of previous diplomatic endeavours or cross-factional trust. 

 

As to the many claims and assumptions from the Danish and/or French about reducing Sweden to a one-port nation, it will never last. The Spanish are more than enough evidence of this. Every time you reduce a faction in ports, you force them to adapt and improve in their determination to continue the fight. The more condensed a faction's population becomes, the harder it is to ever stop them from simply retaking every gain you have made beforehand.

 

Considering the fact that Sweden also benefits from having other factions more than willing to assist them in their plight, this conflict does not appear to be coming to a close any-time soon.

 

Regards,

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I will answer you tomorrow more deeply, but I do not use double standards:

Feel free. I have said my piece. The facts are easy. I have no intention to engage in a pointless discussion about rumours and baseless accusations. It is obvious that you were looking for a way to start a war, and you got your war. We've taken all your ports around Gusavia a couple of times. Now lets talk about ending this whack-a-mole conflict like the French so reasonably suggest. Neither France nor Denmark-Norway were looking for this war in the first place. But you know the words, "in times of peace, prepare for war". We are not naive.

 

 

That is actually one kind of problems that we already got with you. Diplomates have to read this stuff to know what actually is going on.

Talking with you brings us nowhere if you are not informed properly.

Be reassured, Plerrick is always well informed in my experience. He has responded in this topic previously. But now the topic has devolved into a he-did-she-did discussion about Sweden and Denmark-Norway, which doesn't even concern France and is frankly a bit off topic here. Why would he need to read all this? If something relevant should hide among the rest, someone more willing to waste their time in National News will surely keep him informed.

 

Also not every so called "diplomate" understands english good enough.

I can give you an example:

2 Weeks earlier, a DN "diplomate" came to our server. He just read out a statement of DN. We asked him a few things regarding that. He just read out the whole statement again. Actualy he repeated that 3 times and didn't even gave us the slightest answere to our questions.

Those are diplomates you are not able to talk about, it might be easier for them to just read the other statement or question.

I think we just got our answer to what this war is about. You want the whole server to speak only English?

 

But 2 weeks earlier than what? And I didn't know that we sent you any doctor to negotiate on our behalf.

If you're going to insult people's english, do a better job. 

 

If you are referring to two weeks ago, and the note that I wrote, you are misrepresenting what happened. I was in the TS. Due to the questions that were posed we assumed you were struggling to understand the language of the note. And to my memory, the note was not read to you you were asked to read it, and then asked politely to read it again.

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2Hy9mHB.png?1

I loved this move :)

Tbh as a player playing as Dutch I would gladly welcome Swedes in Panama. We are hardly using ports in the area and they could use it for crafting and supporting war effort around their capital.

It must be quite frustrating for French and Danes that they really can't affect Swedish economy atm. Even if they manage to cap all ports around Gustavia :D

Edited by Wyspa

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They can engage in direct trade war offensive and dry their capital of certain selected resources using smart smuggler-contracts.

 

Thus forcing the migration to Panama for good of infrastructure. I do not see the traders making the hours of sail from Panama to Gustavia for sure.

 

Just an idea :)

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They can engage in direct trade war offensive and dry their capital of certain selected resources using smart smuggler-contracts.

 

Thus forcing the migration to Panama for good of infrastructure. I do not see the traders making the hours of sail from Panama to Gustavia for sure.

 

Just an idea :)

Why bother taking any kind of cargo to the capital? They can basically just build shipyards and production buildings in Nicaragua and teleport warships straight to capital for later use...

At least it is what I would do :)

Edited by Wyspa

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Yes, exactly.

 

These new features open a new kind of "warfare" .

 

It is already being done ;) ... somewhere

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owing the port is unneczssary as you can join them in eco ship with smuggler. Anbd one more time the idea is not to struggle the sweden to death. Nice for them if they can play in safety somewhere. Sad for their new players beeing raped as soon as they look outside their capital

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And yet the French still seem more than happy to carry on their assaults.

 

Hmmm.

 

The French just want to feel relevant.

  • Like 1

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Sad for their new players beeing raped as soon as they look outside their capital

Disregarding your toxic choice of words there, it's still on you if you attack rank 1 players in basic cutters trying to run missions.

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but a question to any swedish about your trust issues with the french how do you suppose dennmark norway could trust you? 

after we gave you a More then lavish deal after black friday.

Edited by Samuel Smith

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How could the swedes trust Denmark-Norway after they used double standards? Being attacked by pirates is not enough to declare war, but if Sweden attacks (as you guys put it) it is more then justified to declare war and even pull the french in?

 

The war didn´t work out for you as you guys thought it would, I bet you thought, easy war target, let´s reduce them to capital with two superior nations and then let them beg for mercy. 

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They can engage in direct trade war offensive and dry their capital of certain selected resources using smart smuggler-contracts.

 

Thus forcing the migration to Panama for good of infrastructure. I do not see the traders making the hours of sail from Panama to Gustavia for sure.

 

Just an idea :)

 

 

Have fun and prepare your seat so that when you fall of your chair after you saw the prices you dont hurt yourself ;P

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 Drunk did not attacked you as long as they were in the concil until your "rogue" clans attacked us. You had no screenshot to provide to us. (at least you told me so at the 08.05.2016 when the Drunk diplomate were also in the channel)

 

No, the DRUNKs ganked first and that triggered our rogue players on Basse-Terre and Saint George's. French players told us they had been ganked, but they had no screenshot, so we thought we had none (no screenshot = didn't happen rule). However, we checked the date of the screenshot we had: http://prnt.sc/b6j5hk. This one happened on the 5th of May, i.e.

  • after the DRUNKs joined the Swedish Council
  • before our rogue players retook the ports

There's also the video with the date and the respawn at Grand Anse showing how south the DRUNKs had sailed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuc3eICCspQ&feature=youtu.be. We can see the DRUNKs lurking around looking for juicy targets.

 

 

Still, in the agreement was also the part that French will not interfere in the war.

But that part is just "gettin no attention" or what? That and only that was the reason why Sverige accepted it in the first place without making it a big deal - Even though it felt like bitting in a sour apple.

The agreement was made of the French fully aware that we are gonna fight the Danes which were already in war with the Brits. 

So to not respect the agreement directly done before is backstapping. And is just an act of treason.

Edit: To say that "continuing attacks" is crap. In 3 Weeks they attacked you once.

 

The agreement was that we wouldn't declare war to Sweden if the ports wouldn't be defended. Denmark-Norway hadn't declared war yet - the agreement wasn't that Sweden could attack Danish ports.

 

 

 next point "no Pvp in homewaters"...there is NO down written Stuff about this point. Even when Drunk joined the council we didnt got this Information that PvP with the French is forbitten in homewaters.

 

Common we've been complaining about those ganks for weeks, talking about them with diplomats for dozens of hours.

 

 

 

And for those saying that we weren't friendly and loyal:

  • 28th February - After Black Friday, we propose some ports because Sweden is a great ally and we had joined the First War with the main goal of providing ports to Sweden
  • Sweden launches a flag against the United Provinces despite our ask to not drag us into an unbalanced war against them
  • Sweden conquers a pirate port despite our ask to talk about it first - we refuse to declare war to the pirate coalition
  • Sweden gives the port back
  • We cancel our alliance with Sweden because we value an alliance as a partnership, and we don't want to be dragged into wars without having talked about it http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8715-political-situation-pvp-1-eu/?p=206357
  • We maintain our proposal to give ports because we consider the Swedes as friends
  • 10th March - Sweden attacks Saint George's (and declares war to the United Provinces 2 days later btw: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11889-pvp1-sweden-at-war-with-the-dutch/ )
  • France stays neutral, and lets Saint George's to either Sweden or the United Provinces for their war
  • 22th March - France gives Basse-Terre to Sweden because it is a live oak port close to their capital
  • 1st April - French independant players retake Basse-Terre which served for DRUNK as a base for gank operations
  • 8th April - Sweden accepts the French proposal about Basse-Terre: any Swedish warship can be attacked near that coast, the traders can't be attacked and we'll use screenshots as proofs
  • Sweden asks us for a silver port because the Dutch don't agree on letting them Saint George's
  • 9th April - Sweden and the United Provinces sign peace: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13041-swedish-and-dutch-declares-peace/
  • 10th April - France would accept to give a silver port to Sweden if the Dutch would give Saint George's back to the French, since we are now allied - otherwise the French independant players wouldn't accept it
  • Denmark-Norway and France propose to talk about an alliance to Sweden, to form that Eastern Alliance
  • Sweden refuses to ally with France
  • 21th April - Sweden wants to fight the pirates - France would declare war to Sweden if they would declare war to the pirate coalition
  • 23th April - Sweden and the United Provinces sign a defensive pact: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8715-political-situation-pvp-1-eu/?p=248022- Sweden has no intention to make far conquest operations
  • 1st May - Sweden gets ports from the British in the pirate front in Cuba
  • 5th May - The DRUNKs ganks in front of Grand Anse

At that point, France had few reasons left to try to solve things by diplomacy. But still we tried.

Edited by Éric
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ONE SHIP Eric...it was ONE SHIP that Drunk catpured from the French after we joined the council. And from my informations you also got a new St. Pavel from a Swedish player for it. There was no other activity from Drunk in the french waters beside that ONE ship.

 

And who cares about complaining? There was no down written stuff about "no Pvp", and since this is a PvP Sandbox game, i dont see anything that Drunk made wrong.

 

And then YOU and the other diplomate came in and DEMANDED us to change our Clan name.

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Yes it was maybe one ship, but the one after all the others, after we thought everything was eventually settled. But tbh those DRUNK events in the nation chat just gathered some of the French player base against Sweden. I mentioned them to explain the reasons of the deteriorated relationships, but those didn't trigger the war by themselves. But they contributed.

 

I never heard about changing the name of DRUNK, personally I don't mind, but I'd guess Kierrip asked because he thought that might have improved our nations relationships by removing the DRUNK = anger warning in the mind of many many French players. As a sign of change or something ? He didn't meant it as offensive or anything.

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"Wanna be friends ?"

 

"Damn right hope not !!!!! No hugging you .... you.... ... MAN THE GUNS !!!!"

 

Black_Dog.png

 

WTF, Hethwill? You got a picture of me in your wallet already? You are moving too fast for me!  :D  B)

  • Like 1

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