[PvP1] France joins the war against Sweden

[Éric]

Not so long time ago, Sweden and France were the best allies in the Antilles.

After their alliance ended, both nations tried to maintain a friendly relationship. Respecting the Swedish neutrality and independance, and wishing to re-create the strong alliance, France let Basse-Terre and proposed a silver port to Sweden. Despite those gestures, the Swedish clan DRUNK continued attacking the French even after joining the Swedish Council. The position of the CSNF cost France a clan which went pirate.

- Sweden declined the French alliance proposal, and decided to fight the pirate coalition, our enemies' enemy
- Despite telling us they had no intention to take ports far from their homeland, Sweden was given ports from the British (our enemies) and from the Dutch in Hispaniola
- Sweden engaged a Danish flag, worsening the situation, and attacked the Danish port of Fort Baai, forcing Denmark to declare war: http://www.justisdepartementet.org/cont ... lli-sweden

The French clans unanimously didn't want that war, but feel Sweden pushed us to it. Seeing its allies the Danes attacked from the British in the west and from the Swedish in the east, the CSNF had no choice but to pause the diplomatic talks and honor its alliance by quickly declaring war to Sweden.

This is something we would have preferred solved by diplomacy, and we still wish so.

[Bommel]

 

 

Despite those gestures, the Swedish clan DRUNK continued attacking the French even after joining the Swedish Council.

Open world PVP was allowed.

 

 

 

 Despite telling us they had no intention to take ports far from their homeland, Sweden was given ports from the British (our enemies) and from the Dutch in Hispaniola

Staging ports are necessary for attacks far from homewaters.

 

 

 

Sweden engaged a Danish flag, worsening the situation, and attacked the Danish port of Fort Baai, forcing Denmark to declare war: http://www.justisdep... ... lli-sweden

Danes (RUS Clan to be precise) gave a port (Roadtown) to the pirates which they used to attack swedish homewaters, sweden attacked this pirate port (created the flag first) then intercepted the danish Flag bought and carried by Ironeagle who dropped his clan RUS before buying the flag and to join his clan again after they would be done. 

So the reason why the flag got intercepted was that it might have been a flag to block sweden from getting the pirate port and keep it in RUS hands, so they could give it back to the pirates.

[Kloothommel]

Danes (RUS Clan to be precise) gave a port (Roadtown) to the pirates which they used to attack swedish homewaters, sweden attacked this pirate port (created the flag first) then intercepted the danish Flag bought and carried by Ironeagle who dropped his clan RUS before buying the flag and to join his clan again after they would be done. 

 

 Ironeagel was in VKS. He joined RUS several days after swedish betrayal at Roadtown. Get your facts straight.

[Éric]

Open world PvP was restricted in home waters, especially ganking lone players near the port we had given.

 

The Danes proposed to fix the situation, Sweden refused. Still the issue could have been settled without attacking a Danish port afterwards.

 

We Frenchies showed friendliness and got acts contradicting the declarations.

[Twig]

 Ironeagel was in VKS. He joined RUS several days after swedish betrayal at Roadtown. Get your facts straight.

"Several days after" - I think, you should try to get your facts straight instead of testifying wrong. He joined RUS one day later. What a coincidence!

Sverige told the Danes, that they do not like having this problem, but still need to react to such a threat.

Sverige had to make sure, that the pirates are not able to attack us in the working week. Because we might be not able to attack the port later on. The Danes knew that.

Further, the possibility of the Danes buying a false flag to safe the port for the pirates were to high. Sverige already had a lot of reasons to not trust those empty talks.

Sverige still told the Danes, that we can talk about given the port back to them. The Danes just attacked the port without saying one word.

Additional Sverige belives, that as soon as you give up a port to another nation (E.g. for an embassy - or attacking port - like RUS did there), you also give up the ownership of that port. Hence, Sverige did not attacked a Danish port.

 

 

Open world PvP was restricted in home waters, especially ganking lone players near the port we had given.

 

The Danes proposed to fix the situation, Sweden refused. Still the issue could have been settled without attacking a Danish port afterwards.

 

We Frenchies showed friendliness and got acts contradicting the declarations.

Declaring war is one thing. Declaring it several days after your attacks already started is something totaly different.

(I mean, did you got the idea from the Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor?)

Especially when there was an agreement between the French and Sverige directly before. Eric, you were the one who came with the proposal to us.

The Frenchies showed no friendliness, French just showed how easy you can betray in this game.

Can you please explain your understandment of "homewater", cause your clans attacked us constandly in front of Basse-Terre as we had the ownership of that port. - And yes, we actually have screens from that - (I got attacked a few days before you came with your proposal as I were sailing there alone on a Gross-Ventre). DRUNK attacked you on one day in three weeks, that's what they told me and unless you got a screen proving your statement, I can not belive you. Further, they only attacked cause French were not able to hold on that agreement. Actually French attacked Basse-Terre and St. George earlier without telling us something and I don't think that 5 different clans of your nation on first rates can be called "rogue".

 

- Sweden declined the French alliance proposal, and decided to fight the pirate coalition, our enemies' enemy

Funny thing, you mentioned that. You were the one, who told us directly before we joined the fight against the pirates, that French will declare war on us if we do so. Because French is allied with the pirates. (Your words not ours)

Thus, Sverige learned from the situation on the harsh way, that it is not possible to trust what the French say. Because what they say and what they actually do is something total different.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Twig

[Guest]

The need for an undeclared 'blitzkrieg' assault levied against a small sandwiched nation already pre-occupied with a war amuses me to no end.

[charognard666]

You swe captains, acting like traitor to french since mouths, you are helping brits, our declared ennemi, and you lead severals flags against Danes, our allie, in order to help brits in West. Are you really thinking you'll be able to play on 2 side for long times ? Staying in peace with us and in the same time attacking our danes friends ?

 

You are complaining about pirate want attack your home water ? You'd better think about it before attacking them.

 

You should stay neutral, and don't attack with ports the anti-brits coalition. We can't let you smash our allies with the wood and the silver we are providing friendly to you ! 

 

this situation is only your fault, our nation is only applying his alliance, cause we can't let you help brits to strike the Danes and Pirates and, by extension, the French.

 

I don't considering you as an no end ennemi, and i really hope you'll join us in the future against the only real ennemi of all free ppl and country...

 

Ps : I don't speak in name of French nation, only on my name and about my clan is seeing this situation.

[e1mo]

I have to say that France declaring war on Sweden found itself in a sticky situation. The Dutch in the south, the United Kingdom and Sweden in the north, fighting on two fronts is never a good idea.

[Eishen]

Swedish neutrality is no more than a sweet memory Eric, Your want for diplomacy honors France , but  they have found now their home in the Hydra´s Belly

 

[charognard666]

I have to say that France declaring war on Sweden found itself in a sticky situation. The Dutch in the south, the United Kingdom and Sweden in the north, fighting on two fronts is never a good idea.

 

It's true, but we haven't any other choice, we have a traitor nation as neighbour and alliances to honor... We can't choose all our wars, sometimes, you are simply push  in, and do what it needed to be done... And personnaly i don't like be at war with dutch, but again, it's the alliances game.

Edited May 18, 2016 by charognard666

[Twig]

You swe captains, acting like traitor to french since mouths, you are helping brits, our declared ennemi, and you lead severals flags against Danes, our allie, in order to help brits in West. Are you really thinking you'll be able to play on 2 side for long times ? Staying in peace with us and in the same time attacking our danes friends ?

 

You are complaining about pirate want attack your home water ? You'd better think about it before attacking them.

 

You should stay neutral, and don't attack with ports the anti-brits coalition. We can't let you smash our allies with the wood and the silver we are providing friendly to you ! 

 

this situation is only your fault, our nation is only applying his alliance, cause we can't let you help brits to strike the Danes and Pirates and, by extension, the French.

 

I don't considering you as an no end ennemi, and i really hope you'll join us in the future against the only real ennemi of all free ppl and country...

 

Ps : I don't speak in name of French nation, only on my name and about my clan is seeing this situation.

I think that tells enough about the French situation.

There were actualy two point I want to say something:

First, we did not helped the Britts in the first place. We did not purchased "several" flags to help them either.

Secondly: what we did was taking our ports back which we gave the Danes as a sign of trust. They abused that trust, so we had to take them back. Thats all.

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Twig

[Éric]

Twig, as a diplomat I'm the voice of the CSNF.

 

- We declared war before attacking

- If you talk about the agreement letting the Swedes one more day before we took back the ports, that was before Sweden attacked a Danish port.

- We know there were attacks from both nations, that's why we didn't mind so much some attacks and chose to let time pass. However, after DRUNK joined the Swedish council and we were told they wouldn't attack anymore (for good), after Sweden settled in Cuba having been given ports from the British, DRUNK attacked again. We gave screenshots. That's why some rogue players (not clans) attacked the ports. And the CSNF decided to give them back.

- Yes, the CSNF decided to not accept that neither Sweden nor the United Provinces could declare war on the pirate coalition without us siding with our enemies' enemy.

 

 

Aegir, even a small nation has to be responsible for its actions. As France, we try to be.

[Twig]

Twig, as a diplomat I'm the voice of the CSNF.

 

- We declared war before attacking

- If you talk about the agreement letting the Swedes one more day before we took back the ports, that was before Sweden attacked a Danish port.

- We know there were attacks from both nations, that's why we didn't mind so much some attacks and chose to let time pass. However, after DRUNK joined the Swedish council and we were told they wouldn't attack anymore (for good), after Sweden settled in Cuba having been given ports from the British, DRUNK attacked again. We gave screenshots. That's why some rogue players (not clans) attacked the ports. And the CSNF decided to give them back.

- Yes, the CSNF decided to not accept that neither Sweden nor the United Provinces could declare war on the pirate coalition without us siding with our enemies' enemy.

 

 

Aegir, even a small nation has to be responsible for its actions. As France, we try to be.

First: The Wardeclaration was posted 4 days after the fight began - So no you did not officialy declared war on us. 

Second: The full agreement, that you purposed was:

- Give us back Basse-Terre and Saint George undefendet. We know you are in war with the Danes and If you do that, French will not get involved in the Swedish war against the Danes.

 - Why do I know that?

Because you (and Kierrip) told me so. I was one of the three which talked with you. I was the one who went after our concil meeting to your Teamspeak and handed the message over that Sverige agrees on these terms. I dont really care, what problems you have in your concil right now - But you should actually stay to your word and not breaking it after achieving what you want.

Drunk did not attacked you as long as they were in the concil until your "rogue" clans attacked us. You had no screenshot to provide to us. (at least you told me so at the 08.05.2016 when the Drunk diplomate were also in the channel)

Edited May 18, 2016 by Twig

[Éric]

Twig,

 

- The war declaration was done without posting on any forum, I told it directly and officially to the diplomats and to some other Swedish players, as we used to do when we were allies.

- The agreement (sunday) was: we let you one more day, but don't defend the ports. The Danish declaration happened on monday, after you attacked their port.

- Our rogue players attacked the ports after DRUNK ganked again. It's true we didn't have all the screenshots however. Since we didn't want to base things on screenshots, we gave you back the ports.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Éric

[Lytse Pier]

With a sharp division of heart and mind the Dutch Nation determinedly made the call and honor our signed Defensive Treaty with the Swedish Crown when Swedish ports were attacked and taken already last week by French forces.

 

We do not know the detailed agreements between other nations, we are only to our own.

 

Technically we still have a treaty with France from the first French-Dutch war where the Dutch leave Trinidad to the French as a strong sign of goodwill and sustainability of French colonial activities in the West Indies. All current temporary port occupancy and fleet actions against the French presence in the West Indies are defensive operations into a reconsideration from the French Council of a war against Sweden. So no real harm is done, yet.

 

As no party has renounced and shredded that old treaty yet, and both nations are merely acting on the circumstances presented, I do not know our treaty's worth today from French perspective. Certainly not when there are now parties benefiting from a war between our nations in the internal French Council political scene.

 

Even though our admiration and respect for the French captains is huge within our Nation, we will not have aggression against the Swedes. Say the word and we shred our old treaty, burning the path towards status quo. We shall not be fooled thrice into leaning on our views of admiration and respect alone if the answer cannot be clear enough. The terms are obvious.

 

Halt your aggression against the Swedes and negotiate a peace with favorable terms for them.

 

Respectfully awaiting.

[Tac]

Gentlemen,

As a past enemie of both your fine nations but with a respect earned through many battles, please don't let this thread descend into a pirate/ Us copy on the forum, although notification on the forum is neccessary im sure you will all agree it will only descend into finger pointing trolling and flaming.

I'm sure debates are best left to the politicians on TS, I for one wish both Sweden and France can once again become prosperous together than decline apart.

Tac.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Tac

[Manta Scorpion]

And I m sure we are all happy to have this war now. There is nothing better then a more or less 2x2 in this region. I listen to so many council meetings and I m sure you can safely assume that there not any council with real honor.

Looking forward to see you all on 4th rate pb s soon gonna be great

[Twig]

Eric,

-Since when is a spoken declaration official? You told us a lot of things "official and directly" but than they "suddenly" never happen. (E.g. If you attack the pirates we will declare war on Sverige - Never happend but you told us "OFFICIAL")
- The agreement (Thursday!!! 05.05.2016) was: -As already told-: Give us back the two ports undefended if you do so we will not
  interfere in your war.
        - I asked you politely that we have to talk about it in our Concil which met a few hours later and that we need one day to at
           least get our ships out.
        - You wanted to directly recapture them. We agreed that we need one more day and that I will tell you right after the
          concil meeting what we decided.
- The Drunk diplomate was involved and confirmed that they did not attacked you until your rogue clans captured the two ports
  and constandly attacked  us.

I really don't know what is going on in your nation but keep it to the facts and not to the fiction you are spreading around.

Edit: I'm sorry, but I can not take this lying anymore

Edited May 18, 2016 by Twig

[Éric]

Twig,

 

- The CSNF said it wouldn't stay neutral if Sweden would declare war to the pirate coalition. Sweden didn't declare war to the pirate coalition, the CSNF didn't declare war to Sweden.

- My spoken declaration is official because I'm an official diplomat.

- The agreement happened before you attacked the Danish port, and not on thursday.

- I deleted the screenshots but gave them to the diplomats. All the French clans were very happy when we heard that the DRUNK would stop their attacks - at least the first times.

 

I hope this cleared some of the fog, and will stick to the initial post which is the official position of the French Council. We didn't want that war and still wish the situation will be solved diplomatically.

[Twig]

Eric,

-You didn't answered my question: Since when is a declaration to war paperless? Never!
You may call if "official" but directly before starting to attack jump onto our teamspeak server and just saying: "we declare war on you" is not official.
Even if you are a official diplomat, these things need to be done written. Or any other diplomate can say that and after the first "lost" the council might say: well he was rogue. Those things can not be handled this way! - Thus "official" declaring war by saying it, is bullshit!
 
- The agreement happend before we attacked Fort Baai, which was rightfully ours and just given by trust. So we just claimed back our territory. The Danes had already attacked our port. Still the agreement happend and you just broke it by "declaring" war on us. (As you confirmed above)

 

- The agreement happened before you attacked the Danish port, and not on thursday.

 Yeah you are right, it was sunday. Sorry for that.

 

Now you say: "you deleted them" but when I asked you, you just said: I dont have some.
No of course you don't have them - because there were no DRUNK attacking you! Excuses over Excuses.
And I'm sick of hearing that everything that might happen to you, is based on the bad reputation they've got a few month ago. Kierrip even went so far to asked them to change their name - What the hell is wrong with you guys? Thats their decision.

You want to clear the fog? Than stop telling lies and start telling the truth.

I know it might be hard for you, because you have to keep your face at your own people. And I also know, that you just try to reunite your people but that is not the way you can handle these things. Further I know that you just "deliver the messages from the French council" like you always say.
Still I would like to hear the truth and not the propaganda you try to sell.

[Tenakha Kan]

I'm a french player and part of the ACR clan witch is part of the CSNF. I can assure you as a direct witness that the initial attack against basse Terre and St Georges was decided by rogue elements inside the french community, I know who was the initiator but I won't name him here. That day they went to every chan in our TS telling that they had decided to attack. We (ACR) were about to participate when our leader Charognard informed us that it was not an official decision . So the ACR stayed out of it. In the end the attack took place with a strange mix of player from several clan but without leadership.

 

There were some heated discussion in the afternath and it was decided to give back the towns. After the CSNF meeting it was decided that considering the political situation and the continuing attacks from DRUNK the towns would be retaken by France.Sweden agreed to this asking that France pay the cost of relocating your economy.

 

I don't know what our answer was but in the end the danes asked us to respect our alliance....and we did. As they helped us against the brits.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Tenakha Kan

[Twig]

Still, in the agreement was also the part that French will not interfere in the war.

But that part is just "gettin no attention" or what? That and only that was the reason why Sverige accepted it in the first place without making it a big deal - Even though it felt like bitting in a sour apple.

The agreement was made of the French fully aware that we are gonna fight the Danes which were already in war with the Brits. 

So to not respect the agreement directly done before is backstapping. And is just an act of treason.

Edit: To say that "continuing attacks" is crap. In 3 Weeks they attacked you once.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Twig

[Tenakha Kan]

Still, in the agreement was also the part that French will not interfere in the war.

But that part is just "gettin no attention" or what? That and only that was the reason why Sverige accepted it in the first place without making it a big deal - Even though it felt like bitting in a sour apple.

The agreement was made of the French fully aware that we are gonna fight the Danes which were already in war with the Brits. 

 

I can't answer about the technicalities as I was not part of the process the only thing I can testified is what I saw. I leave the rest to Charognard for the ACR and to the leadership of the CSNF

[PIerrick de Badas]

Hî,

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm one of the french diplomat and I' supposed to be the one dealent with the dutch and the Sweden. Yesterday i was on your ts but as you change right for diplomats, we are now unable to poke or speak to anyone. Waiting for you, praefect from the Dutch come and we speak around 4 hours.

Into this war, into a French perspective, everything has been made to force the French to attack the Swedish.

Both French and dans make the maximum we could to prevent the war to happens.

We got full respect for the Swedish to respect their worlds and leave without fights at George and Basseterre and it show for all players what a fair nation is when they should have decide to keep them and start the war from them.

When they do so, we were really thinking the harder point or the hotter point was solve and that everything was going to be nice or at least going better.

The problem, that can be made by miscommunication is that Swedish thought that giving us our own port should make neutral into a dans/Swedish war and for the French, having this ports was just what was necessary to start a war. But in French perspective we were just looking on French/Sweden relation not about dans/sweden.

If Sweden miss this point when we were speaking with you I may apologies to miss you were thinking we gave you an officials authorization to make anything after that.

This gift orpfmport back and the drunk stopping to harass our player was the first step in normal relation between our 2 kingdom and nothing to see with our own pacts.

Now, the road town issue start. Yes the dans make a bad movement and we told them we were unhappy to see it appearing. Inviting pirates when not all their nation was ok for that is exactly what make people think rogue clans should just go pirate and let the adults plays in nation.

Anyway, road town was a Danish port. It's not because a rogue clan invite a pirate clan to take the port that all the Danish kingdom has to forget this port.

If tomorrow some Dutch clans invite French to take las Aves it doesn't.t mean las aced is now a French port.

Then you sunk the flag and get the port.

The Danish didn't declare war. They keep patient and try one more time to solve the situation but you demand to exchange road town against one Danish port. Roadtown again was not a Swedish neither a pirate port. Demanding something on this stage was at least weird.

Anyway, dans keep patient and just get back their own port.

Then you attack them declaring the war just for a port that didn't belong to you.

It happens just after we solved a major issue between our 2 nations. The spirit was still between war and peace and you move and attack our allies that ask us for help.

We respect the defense pact that is in every alliance or should be respect by any alliances between two nation.

We are not in a total war against the Swedish neither in a mood wars against them. We are not interesting bye destroying their Eco neither making them angry.

We just want to have a place were the trouble are stopping.

French take Swedish port to show our determination.

We thought it was enough and we didn't defend back to allow thenswedish to continue crafting and playing.

The Swedish take back their ports.

And they continue to attack us on aves deshaies and more.

So we move again and capture more ports.

France has been drag into this war due of Swedish moves for our perspective. We manage to try to save the peace at all point. With many diplomat union between the four east nation but it failed due of some wanted to make trubles and war.

Then the Dutch althouit they are supposed to be allies with French attack us on south.

French were just responding to an aggression, not moving in war

Now and as said during this topic that is nothing to regard Brits or dans or anyone else, the French is not a war mood and is ready to speak with this Swedish friend if there is still friend of French into the Swedish nation.

[Hethwill]

Bonne chance mes amis. À là victoire !!!