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Well the title says it all..


Why dont we have plans for the téméraire class 74 gunners?

After all she was the 74 gunner of the time. No other 3rd rates were ever build in such numbers off one construction plan..

I did a bit of research the days but could not find satisfying plans. nowhere in the webz I was around.


armament?: (and remember that a french 36pd is 38.8 british pd)


28 x 36pd

30* 18pd

12 x 8pd + 4 x 36pd Carros (or 4x8pd as well as on the quarterdeck)


total: 74 guns (as of 1783, launchdate of temeraire)


700 men compliment.


I know its not the greatest of all sources but Wikipedial actually has a good page about the Temeraire class ships with good general information.


Also threedecks.org has a good list of ships here

Lead ship: Téméraire


If there is "one" french ship missing. Its this class.

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Original name: le Téméraire
General plan of 1782 by J.-N. Sané

Laid down in june 1781
Launched in 17-12-1782
Struck of lists in 1809 (for French list)
Built by J.-N. Sané
Place of building: Brest
Other names : none in French

Length x breadth x depht in hold
172'x 44'6"x 22' (Pied du roi)
55,87m x 14,455m x 7,146m
Deplacement: 3069 tx 1606 li

Artillery of origin:
1st deck - 2nd deck - 3rd deck - F'c'sl/Q'deck
28x36-pdr - 30x18-pdr - 16x8-pdr
total: 74


The general plan to 1782.

(sorry for the bad quality)



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Artillery Developments for the 74-gun ship.


1st deck - 2nd deck  - F'c'sl/Q'deck

1787 - 28x36-pdr - 30x18-pdr - 16x8-pdr + 4 howitzer of 36-pdr = 78-gun
1806 - 28x36-pdr - 30x18-pdr - 16x8-pdr + 10 carronade of 36-pdr = 84-gun
1827 - 28x36-pdr - 30x18-pdr - 2x12-pdr + 22 carronade of 36-pdr = 82-gun
1837 - 24x36-pdr + 4 howitzer of 80-pdr - 26x18-pdr + 4 howitzer of 80-pdr - 4x18-pdr + 20 carronade of 36-pdr = 82-gun
1848 - 24x36-pdr + 4 howitzer of 80-pdr - 26x18-pdr + 4 howitzer of 30-pdr - 4x18-pdr lg. et 20 carronade of 36-pdr = 82-gun
1849 - 24x36-pdr + 4 howitzer of 80-pdr - 30x18-pdr - 12 howitzer of 30-pdr = 70-gun
Despite the number of guns, we continue to call 74-gun by convention.
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Also here are some of the captured ones from the threedecks list. I hope it will help :)

By the way i think you can contact the French musuem in Paris and ask them about the Temeraire plans. Surcouf knows the way :D
Here is the list of all the plans available:http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/MV_PLANS-BATIMENTS-A-VOILES.compressed.pdf

Jean Jaques Rousseau/Marengo 1795 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=11066

L'America/America/Impétueux 1788 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=13663

Le Duquesne 1788 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=14683

Duguay Trouin/ Implacable 1800 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=13183

Le Scipion/Scipion 1790 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=6500

Pompee 1791 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2125

Le Tigre 1793 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2166

Barra/Donegal 1794 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2022

Spartiate 1797 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2154

Hercule 1797 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2080

Edit: I got ninja'd :P

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  • 4 months later...

There are some nice models of the Téméraire class, the one I know best is of Rivoli, as she was built in the Venetian Arsenal, along side the other Pluton variants, Rigenetore, Reale Italiano, Mont Saint Bernard (also known as Mont Blanc), Castiglione, Duquesne, Montenotte, Lombardo, Sigmaring and Arcole. The fun that we get to have is that the french underestimated the depth width and difficulty of getting out of the shipyard and then the Venetian Lagoon, they had to mount the ships on a specially made set of sea camels, they also had to demolish part of the Arsenal wall and make a new sea gate specifically for the Pluton class ships.

I will leave some pictures below of the Camels taking ships out :)




So as an answer to the original question, maybe the Téméraire class is stuck in port because the devs need to model some camels first :D

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
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Le Rivoli is not a vessel of 74 of the same class as le Témeraire.

This is a 74 "small model". Another type of vessel of the 74 type Sané.

I can't see any evidence to support that Rivoli is not a temeraire, The OP asks about the temeraire class and all the information I have reinforces what I said about Rivoli and the other ships being of the Pluton sub variant of the Temeraire, I personally think the Pluton group look better too, although the difference is only fairly small, its only 6ft shorter length, 2ft thinner, 9 inches shorter in height. Sadly very few of them made it to even their 10th birthday, shame really. They would make a nice little ship, the Pluton class looks really good, also I would like to remind you that the game uses a subclass of the Bucentaure, not the original 80 plan. :)

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
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Not one but two models showing ships being lightened by camels with the guns in place?


Why wouldn't they float the ship out light, then install the guns?


Because it was done with the guns in place, The camels themselves were designed by Jean Tupinier and raised the ships draft by about 4.25m. Rivoli had been launched in 1810 but was stuck in the Venetian lagoon due to the geography, I had a look to see if I could post you a picture of a chart but I couldn't find a decent quality image showing the lay out and difficulty of getting larger deep hulled ship in and out of not only the arsenal but between the shipyard and the Adriatic. The french had launched plan to take advantage of the fantastic ship building capabilities and facilities available in 1806 following their re-acquisition of the territory following a peace deal with Austria, they gathered resources and soon began work on a number of ships (a Tonnant class, 10 Plutons, 10 Pallas, 2 Carolina Class (a Venetian design), 9 Brigs of various size and design, and 8 Goletta of various size and design). This plan was overseen by Jean Tupinier, as part of this plan the Lagoon was to be charted by Augusto Denaix, which work also began in 1806, meaning that the french occupants had already committed to the building of ships before understanding the limitations of using the Arsenal, this wasn't helped by the Venetian passive resistance to the french occupation. I will post 2 semi useful links below to give you a rough idea of the geography, although modern dredging makes the lagoon much deeper than it was historically.



Anyway to get more onto the point of your question, the decision was made to float her out with guns for two main practical reasons, the reality was there wasn't anywhere suitable to arm safely in or around the lagoon, there were a couple of ways that could have been potentially viable but it was decided that sending her out armed was the most sensible, the other options included transporting the guns to the northern edge of the island of Lido or constructing some floating platforms to allow her to have her guns barged onto a makeshift floating dockyard, the idea of arming at Lido would also have been considerably tricky because the surrounding waters are still fairly shallow, so would likely have presented the same problem forcing camels to be used anyway, to add to this the Venetian gun foundry was situated on the southern edge of the Arsenal and it was a lot of effort to transport the guns around without the support of the pulley and rail system and cranes. The other huge reason the ship was sent out armed was due to the considerable pressure that the Royal Navy were exerting in the Adriatic, especially following the capture of the Ionian islands by the British in 1809, leaving them with a very useful base at Corfu, and allowing them power over the area and making it impossible to safely arm outside the comfort of the lagoon.

There was however a more tactical reason that was made, Rivoli was to be launched fully armed for shock reasons, then immediately sailed towards Pola in order to break British dominance of the region, the french were under the impression that the British had only deployed smaller frigates to control the region after their success at Lissa in 1811, however British intelligence were tipped off about the state of Rivoli and also got hold of information in regards to gathering crew and supplies, so stationed HMS Victorious in the area under a low profile. The result was that Rivoli was captured only 4 days after her maiden voyage started after a 4 hour battle at Pirano.

Some Further reading



Hope this helps :)

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
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