What to expect about shallows in the future ?

[LeBoiteux]

Current shallow mechanics can be defined as followed :

- shallow warning is systematic and automatic,

- ships immediately stop, without any damage nor beaching.

Shallows are of no danger for NA ships.
 

Primary functions of the current system seem to be :

- to prevent ships to sail through lands,

- keep off large ships from some areas,

- and create a path into ports (simulating RL entries into ports) .
 

Could we expect someday shallow mechanics where :

- detection isn’t as systematic or as accurate as now or would be (partly) manual,

- shallows / sandbanks are a danger (shipwrecks, hull damage…) ?

[Paint]

I think it will be implemented in battles sometime but not on OW. Just my thoughts though.

[Hethwill]

Shallows, to some degree, are already present in battles but no to the extent as having the entire mapping translated from OW.

 

It is a very important aspect on setting up interceptions or defensive positions or even evade a enemy squadron to have these in battle. More so in ports.

 

I don't think it is a good idea to have critical damage to the ship for the sake of gameplay. Running aground is already an issue and a lot of time and appropriate wind is necessary to push your ship back to release it.

[LeBoiteux]

I don't think it is a good idea to have critical damage to the ship for the sake of gameplay. Running aground is already an issue and a lot of time and appropriate wind is necessary to push your ship back to release it.

Damage (small or critical) could be good in OW for traders' and explorers' gameplay, and more generally for those who sail in the OW as non-combat damage similar to combat damage in instances for fighters. And also interesting in combat instances.

 

Shipwrecks is just  a non-combat way to lose a dura.

 

Pushing back your ship to release it could be handled by pressing a button (and losing money ?) and having your ship "teleported" a few feet offshore.

[Hethwill]

I can work with that idea of the exploration, sure. Was thinking more of combat in straights when I mentioned the damage.

 

 

Regarding the release I am totally happy that manual yard had to be used mind you, no automated reverse please.

[LeBoiteux]

I can work with that idea of the exploration, sure. Was thinking more of combat in straights when I mentioned the damage.

 

Improvement of shallow detection and dangerousness of shallows may indeed be features more adapted to OW than instances.

OW needs a non-combat gameplay and dangerousness IMHO. 

[maturin]

Now that battle instances take place on the OW map, it's hard to imagine how shallows could become meaningful. There just isn't enough room on the coast.

 

For port battles there may yet be hope.

[LeBoiteux]

Can't OW shallows and instance shallows be disconnected ; their shapes and spread, way to be detected and effects on ships being reworked only for OW while instance shallows would remain the same as currently for battle gameplay's sake ?

 

OW shallows for interceptions, defensive positions or evading a threat ; entering a port ; exploration and trade gameplay...

vs Instance shallows : simplified, automatically detected, with very limited effect on gameplay.

[maturin]

Can't OW shallows and instance shallows be disconnected ; their shapes and spread, way to be detected and effects on ships being reworked only for OW while instance shallows would remain the same as currently for battle gameplay's sake ?

 

OW shallows for interceptions, defensive positions or evading a threat ; entering a port ; exploration and trade gameplay...

vs Instance shallows : simplified, automatically detected, with very limited effect on gameplay.

But instances are exactly the same as the OW heightmaps now.

 

They would have to somehow mix the current persistent terrain with procedurally-generated add-on shallows that have different collision mechanics than they do on the OW.

 

I don't have to be a professional game developer to know that that sounds really difficult.

 

 

 

Edit: Wait, hang on, am I misunderstanding you, or did you swap your labels?

 

You want shallows to have a limited effect on battles but be relevant on the OW? I don't think that is workable, since the scale of the OW is mostly too large for meaningful localized shallows gameplay. And the time compression and sailing model make it pointless to add obstacles and nuances to the simplified gameplay.

[LeBoiteux]

You want shallows to have a limited effect on battles but be relevant on the OW? I don't think that is workable, since the scale of the OW is mostly too large for meaningful localized shallows gameplay. And the time compression and sailing model make it pointless to add obstacles and nuances to the simplified gameplay.

That's it : I'd like to have shallows relevant on the OW. Current time compression and sailing model in OW are indeed valid objections.

[Bommel]

I don´t think the heightmap has any effect on collision, looks more like they use volumes for shallows which create an artificial border around landmasses. There is no need to add collisions (as in collision meshes) to landmass gameplay wise. 

Has anyone tried to shoot beaches or land to see if "projectiles" actually collide with it?

[maturin]

I don´t think the heightmap has any effect on collision, looks more like they use volumes for shallows which create an artificial border around landmasses. There is no need to add collisions (as in collision meshes) to landmass gameplay wise. 

Has anyone tried to shoot beaches or land to see if "projectiles" actually collide with it?

If you use free cam to look at the ocean floor, you will see that running aground does coincide with submarine elevation differences. There are plenty of underwater shoals.

 

However the collision is calculated, it coincides with the location of shoals, but not their exact shape. Ships usually run aground with several feet of water still under the keel.

[Jean Ribault]

I got stuck yesterday in an odd location, heading south through an opening to the bay in the southeast corner of the map.  I didn't take a picture where I was, but the attachment shows it approximately.  The attachment map doesn't look exactly like it is in the game, but it's close.  There were no shallows indicated in the game, but my ship dropped from a good 16 knots or so to 0 in less than a second.  Changing heading directly west got me out of it.  When I looked, I was not close to the point at all, and I've sailed that same route many dozens or more times.  I guess I hit one of the underwater elevation differences that maturin mentioned above, but there was no water color change or UI warning and I was far from visible land.  I wonder if the shallows are getting updated regularly.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[AKPyrate]

You want shallows to have a limited effect on battles but be relevant on the OW? I don't think that is workable, since the scale of the OW is mostly too large for meaningful localized shallows gameplay. And the time compression and sailing model make it pointless to add obstacles and nuances to the simplified gameplay.

 

I'd agree.  The compressed time, as well as not being able to manually control the sails and having generally a fairly large turn radius makes running aground in OW fairly common in restricted waters.  I'd vote (for what it's worth) to not have consequences, beyond losing speed if running to/from an enemy, for running aground in OW.  For battles, however, I could see definitely some damage based on the speed of running aground, possibly some leaks, and it would be rather neat to have a grounding shock timer if you hit too hard, and thus you can't back off the shoal for 30 seconds or so, simulating some effort needed to refloat the boat.  At lower speeds or more 'glancing' groundings, perhaps little to no damage and no grounding shock, but a ship of the line heading directly onto shoals at 8 kts should probably spring a leak or two and take some decent hull structure damage, plus have that grounding shock before they can get off the reef.  Additionally, with a ship that's nearly sinking, running aground to keep her immobile, but 'afloat' and firing guns would be a great aspect as well, though a risk of capsizing should also be present if doing that.  Of course, with these risks should come some sort of warning/indicator that shoals are near in the battle.  I don't recall seeing any warning in the battle mode like there is in OW about shoals.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[DeRuyter]

I'd be happy just to see variable depths have some effect in PB and battle instances near the shore. If running around is properly modeled you'd not only see leaks but masts going over board as well. Many times once around a ship was out of the battle, ie; Copenhagan, The Nile. You wouldn't want that for game play reasons of course.

 

On the OW I was chasing a player trader towards the Bahamas in a deep water ship - just after I hit the attack button my ship was stopped dead by the shallows. In the battle instance the trader was so far away that he got away. There's a nice effect for shallows in the OW.

[WhoopAss_McGue]

Has anyone tried to shoot beaches or land to see if "projectiles" actually collide with it?

 

They do and it makes a little puff of dirt