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Ship role, comparisons of vessels and wind strength

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Well my two bits is this

1.Its a game and I want to have fun,

2.If you got a sucky boat, my professional advise is to buy a better boat. I tell my real customers that in real life, you don't even need real money.

3.Some boats have mahogany trim and some have teak, some have blonde deck fluff, some like em a bit more urban cowboy, personally I single hand as it cuts down on the arguing over dinner. I like all the different boats, and as the game is still in development, I think we should think about what kind of missions could be added that might get some players out of big ships and into small craft once and a while. Maybe that's only me as a first time MMO'er and regular PVE player. But what's the point of open world if it's just big fleet battles. I like strategy, I'm also pretty sure that my hammer won't turn that screw real well (yeah, I did hit it a lot though).

I've been thinking about having at least three boats, maybe four boats, now that I've gone on some cap a' trader missions with my Big Fat Venture. while I was tooling up the coast in PVE I was thinking there should be more small craft, and that since I almost can never catch them in my big square riggers, it might be fun to build me an oak privateer or super lynx to play around the small bays, if there were small craft in the bays like there could be, not to mention missions to do. Also it could be better for newbies, like I was yesterday (LOL), to play in the shallows, literally, where the big proud ganking Santisima dudes (you know who you are bud) can't get in and cause havoc.

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No, make current wind condition the medium strength. No need to accelerate OW speed.

 

 

I would go with that no problem, but I suggested making the current wind speed on the OW a baseline because of concerns like this and others posting in any wind speed thread:

 

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the chasers but variable winds could be a major issue if they slow down Open World travel.  The time spent on open world travel is already a huge burden to players and I am sure many players don't have the hour per day of game play already to spend just sailing.  If you cut the wind speed in half and that means the ships travel half as fast you just doubled the time it takes to get from one place or another.  I envision a time when someone goes to the website and see the weak winds and decides not to play the game that day because of travel times.  Variable winds within 30 minute or hour blocks would not be a bad thing (remember one game of game time is only 20 some odd minutes of RL time) but an entire day of weak winds is a game killer.

 

To those concerned with slow OW travel I believe admin has said that ships won't be becalmed!

 

Others have posted that this adds nothing to gameplay but indeed it does - It adds variation to the ships in game in addition to sailing tactics and skill.

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I would go with that no problem, but I suggested making the current wind speed on the OW a baseline because of concerns like this and others posting in any wind speed thread:

Exactly what I was envisioning, incidentally.

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I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the chasers but variable winds could be a major issue if they slow down Open World travel. The time spent on open world travel is already a huge burden to players and I am sure many players don't have the hour per day of game play already to spend just sailing. If you cut the wind speed in half and that means the ships travel half as fast you just doubled the time it takes to get from one place or another. I envision a time when someone goes to the website and see the weak winds and decides not to play the game that day because of travel times. Variable winds within 30 minute or hour blocks would not be a bad thing (remember one game of game time is only 20 some odd minutes of RL time) but an entire day of weak winds is a game killer.

I don't see OW working that way, but rather:

-Light winds: small ships travel at normal OS speed, medium and large ships suffer minor penalty.

-Moderate winds: medium ships travel at normal OS speeds, small and large ships suffer minor penalty.

-Strong winds: large ships travel at normal OS speeds, small and medium ships suffer minor penalty.

That could of course be reversed (i.e. one ships gain OS speed boost, other two remain at normal speeds), but OS speeds are already very fast and it would feel / look bad. Regardless, it would be important for wind speeds to not be entirely predictable and not occur in really long blocks.

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Remember this? My old "drawn on a rag" concept for tactical battles. It was more about a really quick and dirty wind variation mock up in tactical battles. Not that I wanted all of these wind types in every battle. I did miss the "gusting" affect where wind is a little intermittent but hits hard when it comes. It was intended to be finished more accurately.

Glad some of it is being implemented with Maturin's greater knowledge base... very happy. Maturin's implementation is much more realistic.

I do hope that sometimes the forecast is wrong though. Otherwise people will take out ship types like clockwork. How accurate can 19c weather reports be?

There should obviously be some variation within the forecast or indeed in different areas of the map.

Seasonal shifts, tides and currents would have on the other hand have been well known though to 19c weather reporters.

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I really enjoy these proposed changes.

 

While I may be conflicted between the historical truth of the chasers and the gameplay side I must say that the former might be appropriate but with limitations on the size. So it bears down to the guns we equip for the deck if they become available to move to the positions and if so how much time it takes.

 

Regarding the wind, it is worth testing as plain as you put it. We can then provide more feedback. Given it is the most vital thing in both OW and battle small changes and testing is the best way.

 

Also, and connected to the wind, review the yard handling speeds. Some of the rigs are quite big and the sail canvas carry a lot of wind exerting a lot of strength but they turn as expedient as a sloop yard.

* I really hope that for bow and stern chasers that the ships that had them permanently equipped have them permanently equipped.

 

* The ships that did not have them permanently equipped can move two small guns from the broadside to the bow or stern with a timer. They could also be put back into the broadside on a timer. The captain could choose to take them into battle already equipped as chasers and move them back to the broadside later in the battle. This choice could be made at the same time the captain makes the ammo choice while waiting for the 10 second battle start timer to count down.

 

* Ships too small to move chasers back and forth at sea that did not have them historically - like the cutter and the yacht - perhaps should not have them at all. They probably are fast enough to catch anything they are of a size to attack anyways and for larger ships would just be used as unrealistic little gank taggers by clans.

 

P.S. I am happy as long as the actual ships are not balanced away from historical values which this will certainly help. The game mechanics surrounding the ships in the open world that are not realistic anyway - such as fast travel - are what should always change to make all ships useable. Game seems to be heading in the right direction in this respect with mechanics like this and I would hate for it to about face for those that simply want to play a game that is not like this - want this to be WOWs or POTbs.

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Yes I agree on that. Ships that never had space to have had them in that position, shouldn't have the option at all.

 

I pointed out the moving guns from the side ports to a chaser post and this is where I must ask for consideration is, if the carriages I have equiped on the broadside would not fit ever the chaser position then they cannot be moved.

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I wonder, relating to wind strength, if there is any chance we could possibly see a comeback of the stormy battle from Sea Trials?  That was one of the most amazing experiences I've had playing any computer game, watching entire enemy ships vanish from view behind giant 20-foot swells, having to time the shots of my ship from wave-top to wave-top.  I'm not saying that every battle fought in high winds should be fought on seas as rough as that map was, but hopefully the wind strength could have at least some sort of effect on the smoothness of the ocean.  Maybe have light winds have almost no heel at all, and relatively few small waves, medium wind could basically be like the game is now, and high wind could be much more of a roller coaster ride on the high seas, not extreme waves mind you, but at least something to have to factor in when firing and sailing.  Just this one change I think would be awesome and add so much more to the experience of sailing and fighting in this game.

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I wonder, relating to wind strength, if there is any chance we could possibly see a comeback of the stormy battle from Sea Trials?  That was one of the most amazing experiences I've had playing any computer game, watching entire enemy ships vanish from view behind giant 20-foot swells, having to time the shots of my ship from wave-top to wave-top.  I'm not saying that every battle fought in high winds should be fought on seas as rough as that map was, but hopefully the wind strength could have at least some sort of effect on the smoothness of the ocean.  Maybe have light winds have almost no heel at all, and relatively few small waves, medium wind could basically be like the game is now, and high wind could be much more of a roller coaster ride on the high seas, not extreme waves mind you, but at least something to have to factor in when firing and sailing.  Just this one change I think would be awesome and add so much more to the experience of sailing and fighting in this game.

I would love this. But the really big storm cells should be able to be seen and avoided (or deliberately chased into). Very quickly over and done with if they pass over you near port (10 minutes). Otherwise people will complain the game is unplayable when they login for their hour of crafting or that single battle.

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Idea itself may be good but I am afraid it's not possible to have a ship for each type of wind. I would not use different ships than now I have still too less ships and too less place to hold more. The need of more ships wouldn't be helpful. Especially if you are a crafter in big clan with only 5 port slots.

Edited by CptEdwardKenway

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Why should be a frigate slower than a SOL?

That makes no sense!

Don't complicate this game it's gonna be worst.

If you've ever been on a big sailboat in a strong wind you'd know why this is true, and not a complication. A 50 foot keelboat is going to handle a 35-knot wind better than a sunfish, whereas the sunfish will own the keelboat in lighter winds. The waves, wind just won't have the same effect.

 

Please, please, please implement variable wind speeds and directions. Wind shifts right now are boring in the OW and have no impact on battles. They should impact both. 

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I would love to see wind speed (strength) and direction variability.  Note that this should affect how "heavy" the sea is as well.

 

Again, it should not just affect the relative speed of ships, but their ability to effectively use their guns.  Historically, strong winds allowed smaller ships to win over bigger ones because the bigger ones could not use their lower ports without flooding themselves.

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I like the wind strength thought for affecting different classes of ships. It will add realism and immersion that is currently missing.

 

Chasers, I would like to see something like, no normally mounted chasers. If you have a ship that will allow a chaser being moved to the bow, have the game mechanic of selecting an action in battle that has your crew move one or two guns to the bow. It should take some time, not instantly, 5 minutes or such.  Would add more realism and would allow you to select that if you so choose but would not be instantly available when a battle started.

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I am totally down for this!

 

Any thoughts on having occasional storms that could actually damage sails? Where you could risk destroying your sails in an attempt to outrun someone. Or otherwise just have your storm sails up and battle in lower visibility with more waves, maybe having to close your lower gun ports between shots.

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So in strong winds, will large ships that accidentally sail upwind sail backwards fast?

 

Actually your question brings up a good point - Square rigged ships going into the wind accidentally or by tacking in strong winds could suffer significant damage to their rigging as their sails are taken aback. Consider also that high winds are often accompanied by high seas so if a ship slams into a wave and loses forward momentum you have even more stress on the rig. So you could be sailing backwards (making sternway) in strong winds but that should be balanced against the damage to your rigging and the motion from the waves. Another problem is the threat of broaching - turning sideways to the waves and heeling over to the point of capsizing. That's why ships will sail with at least a storm job to take forward momentum and to keep your bow into the waves.  

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I like the wind strength thought for affecting different classes of ships. It will add realism and immersion that is currently missing.

 

Chasers, I would like to see something like, no normally mounted chasers. If you have a ship that will allow a chaser being moved to the bow, have the game mechanic of selecting an action in battle that has your crew move one or two guns to the bow. It should take some time, not instantly, 5 minutes or such.  Would add more realism and would allow you to select that if you so choose but would not be instantly available when a battle started.

Where would you have your long chasers mounted?

Historically and realistically many dedicated warships did have dedicated chasers of specialised types not usually mounted on the side.

I would like to see a mix.

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I like the wind strength thought for affecting different classes of ships. It will add realism and immersion that is currently missing.

 

Chasers, I would like to see something like, no normally mounted chasers. If you have a ship that will allow a chaser being moved to the bow, have the game mechanic of selecting an action in battle that has your crew move one or two guns to the bow. It should take some time, not instantly, 5 minutes or such.  Would add more realism and would allow you to select that if you so choose but would not be instantly available when a battle started.

 

in battle ....It should take some time, not instantly, 5 minutes or such   

 

then why bother with this??? If you need chasers at all  in 5 minutes battle is over..  If it is an option it  need to be done in OW to be of any use.

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So in strong winds, will large ships that accidentally sail upwind sail backwards fast?

This could perhaps break masts if done accidentally and incorrectly?

in battle ....It should take some time, not instantly, 5 minutes or such   

 

then why bother with this??? If you need chasers at all  in 5 minutes battle is over..  If it is an option it  need to be done in OW to be of any use.

How about allowing it in the 10 second battle count down like setting sails and ammo type?

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(another gameplay related thing is to remove chasers from all ships ;) or add them to all ships (even if they don't exist on the model)

 

 

 

Keep the chasers please, the wind stuff should be enough to use other ships, it may be a gameplay decision, but it makes less gameplay .Because now you dont have to worry about using these things or that they get used against u depending on ships, make things eased up and less tactical.(less decisions to make in the heat of battle)

Edited by kaboki

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As a general point of reference, the Hull speed of a displacement vessel (all we are concerned with) is the square root of the waterline length times a constant from (for these types of vessels) 1.3 to 1.5 (and 1.5 is pushing it)

At a constant of 2 the vessel (any vessel without technical cheats) either hits hullspeed and is capable of going further(planing), or, for all vessels of the days and age, they ain't never getting there but once, and they won't survive that storm.

 

From memory, the book you all want is Chappelle's (not that one), "The Search for Speed under Sail", which, by the way is not a discourse on the modern fisherman and their habits for meth and heroin, but, an awesome book full of awesome plans and MATH. It is a detailed history of sailing ships and the search for faster hulls from 1700 through 1855. In fact you will find that most of the math is about the constants for the hull speed formula, and how different rigs behaved.

 

Here it is from my library rack. Howard L Chapelle   Norton Press.

I really suggest anyone interested in any of this stuff to read the guy who documented the last days of it. And the printed plans are phenomenal. tons of privateers, pilot boats, tea clippers.

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