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Ship role, comparisons of vessels and wind strength


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I would very much like to see wind force present in the game. I'm honestly surprised a sailing game has been in development for as long as this one has without it. 

 

Regarding chasers, Is it not possible to model the actual fields of fire of the guns in bridle ports? For example, Trincomalee has two gundeck bridle ports and two weatherdeck bridle ports, but for some odd reason both can fire directly forward. Essex for example also has bridle ports but cannot mount chasers. Would it be possible to meet in the middle and classify all ships with bridle ports as having chasers, with their realistic arcs of fire? 

 

For the other options, I'm fine with criticals as they are currently. I rarely see magazine damage, but rudder hits and pump hits can be quite crippling, which I am fine with. I think compacting ship HP would be worth testing, along with increasing  the ability of a ships' sides to take damage.

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I think chasers should be optional choice on all ships, but you lose something else for example 2 guns on the broadsides as every ships can use chasers there is nothing stopping me from rolling a 6 pounder on my weather deck to the front of a Pavel, there is enough room, crew and empty space to be able to do that. Heck you could do that on a Privateer! Please i want chasers on me privateer ;)

 

 

 

On a side note When they bring the new storm mechanics combined with the new wind, I cant wait to see a ship of the line take flight or maybe even capsizing xD

 

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Edited by Bloody Hound
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I would very much like to see wind force present in the game. I'm honestly surprised a sailing game has been in development for as long as this one has without it. 

 

Regarding chasers, Is it not possible to model the actual fields of fire of the guns in bridle ports? For example, Trincomalee has two gundeck bridle ports and two weatherdeck bridle ports, but for some odd reason both can fire directly forward. Essex for example also has bridle ports but cannot mount chasers. Would it be possible to meet in the middle and classify all ships with bridle ports as having chasers, with their realistic arcs of fire?

 

The Privateer Rattlesnake will have the same issue, the ship can only carry 4 pounders and with no chase guns at least from what I saw in the work in progress screenshots.

 

Heres the thread on the Rattlesnake

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13346-privateer-rattlesnake-chase-guns-possible-in-this-position/

 

You can see how the ports are angled, its very clear a cannon can fire straight forward but with a small arc. It would be great if the ship came with bridle port chase guns to make up for the reduced damage output. Even if it does come with a limited arc of fire.

 

It looks to me like the Belle could easily accept chase guns on the forecastle too.

http://modelisme.arsenal.free.fr/artdumodelisme/La%20Belle%20Poule/images/dsc_0465.jpg

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Leave chasers untouched, and take off the taging system to something using distance and time.

Not sure about the wind idea...As someone mentioned earlier, each ship has different wind angles and their strengths and weaknesses... so I believe its good and combat is just fine.  You should put your effort where its more needed.. like the diplomacy, port battles, conquest pirates, side occupation etc.

 

Limiting some ships because winds is strong or weak dont seem a good idea to me... traveling on OW with a ship that become too slow suddenly will make me fedup of this rapidly.  You have a good system right now, you shoulkd not touch this for now.

 

More ship slots should be done since a long time. It should be twice than it is right now, or make an option to pay for each additional slot, until a max of.....  If you bring the wind strenght change, you MUST add ships slots, because we will need al kind of ships in our port is really not enough.  For people crafting the limit as it is like now is also a burden.

 

Anyway, I think that idea is a bit too much and won't increase the players fun.

Edited by Skippy
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I feel like this is add just another layer to the logistics and bog the game down even more, it's already slow enough paced.  It already takes too much time to do what you want to do with how teleport cooldowns and time to sail places, this makes it even slower?

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"In the very light wind any brig could sail faster than trincomalee at any angle "

 

That is a joke, isn't it? the Trinco is as slow as hell. ist too high in the water and rolls to much and is only good for hunting. 

I regret that i have build and used that class of ship.

 

Anyway, the way the DEVS thinks about changes to the game are a little bit to agressive and helps nobody to increase the fun to Play.

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I like the idea of anything that adds realism to the game so its a thumbs up from me for changeable wind strength.

 

Getting rid of or giving all ships chasers is a bad idea IMHO; as it is we have diversity in the game for certain ships and thats a good thing.

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Time that could be spent figuring out how to make the game filled with action and attractive to more players is being devoted to ideas that, although they are cool in concept, really do nothing but add another layer of tedium to a game already full of it.  

 

I still have high hopes for this game but it seems to be going down the wrong road.  Hope I am wrong...

Edited by F4ppinFr3nzy
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Because if you like a ship you should play to it's strenght points. I too have some ships that I loved to sail and they didn't have chasers. I see no problem with that. Adding chasers for everyone won't increase diversity. Now we have to make some interesting choices, but when all ships of give class will have chasers (or will be lacking) it will make some ships that normally were attractive mainly because of their chasers, less useful.

For example why should I chose Frigate over Belle Poule? 

 

because it can bear 18pd?  because you can like it more?  if you want to sail a belle and you are in a frigate only because it allow you to rest "timers" more consistently something is wrong.

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Chasers should be removed (if there are no dedicated guns like only some ships had) and they should be taken from the broadside.

The shift process has to be time consuming and will remove a gun from either the broadside or the chaser position.

Yes I want the chasers to be variable.

While shifting you will need more men in the gun stations.

 

 

Weather is a cool thing and I hope it will have the effect you describe.

Be sure you ad enough weather conditions so that there is enough room to play with ship stats.

Maturin's suggestion looks very sound

->https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rA7QEndsQmAK6ZLa61_neCyt0eAY_Mpl3jhKa3qKEHg/edit?usp=sharing

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Yes yes yes please, but I will go as far as adding some variance to the battles with wind being able to turn, squalls and wind dying at moments. This will add so much sailing depth into the game!

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This sounds fantastic!

But please add some randomness into the equation, after all they didn't have weather satellites back in those days so sometimes weather forecasts can go haywire.

 

And as someone mentioned above, a nice storm once and again that comes from nowhere would make things a bit spicier especially if you take into account ship/rigging damage caused to anyone trying to deploy anything more than "Dead Slow" as speed in OW/battle during these tropical storms.

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Awesome idea! This will make sailing a more tactical and skill based experience! I am all for it!

 

1. maybe the "strong wind" and "light breeze" should not affect the battle too much (top speeds in low wind still reach a least 8 knots, top speeds in strong winds do not exceed 13.5 knots for the most effective ship in that wind class)

2. Wood types still should probably still have a more significant impact on ship speed overall than wind speed - this may be less historically accurate but gives the players some control over what they want to specialise their ship for.

3. Alternatively, officers or experienced crew could later have an impact on the "efficiency of sails on ship" - adding another tacticaly layer of speed tuning and reflecting what Wind said - experienced crew making the best out of the sails and tuning, while less experienced crew might be less efficient operating the sails

4. I also like the idea of "global wind trends" to have sort of wind highways for trader traffic and more dynamic changes in wind direction. But I can understand if the current counterclockwise wind turning mechanic stays to make the game a little more predictable for players.

 

I vision that the wind compass rose ingame will then give you a "trend marker (little green and red arrows?) that give the captain an idea whether wind is picking up in the next 20 minutes, and which way wind is turning in the next 20 minutes.

 

Hooray to dynamic wind! All hail the dynamic wind!

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(another gameplay related thing is to remove chasers from all ships  ;) or add them to all ships (even if they don't exist on the model)

 

 

better add then remove. To leave the battle and avoid privateers/pirates must not be so easy. Or you should change escape mechanic. For example if a ship is not too far from enemy it cant escape. 

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I think the idea floated about the chasers is getting a lot more attention.

 

The goal with chasers should be to make them less important, not make them totally equal. Chasers should slow your opponent down, not lock him in combat. Only high damage from broadsides should be able to lock ships in combat. To compensate, exit timers would be longer and dependent on closure rate.

 

Many, many ships successfully caught their quarry without using chase guns.

 

 

the problem with distance timers is inability to exit at all in some situation

for example

chasing ship is within the locking distance 

his speed is 12 knots your speed is 12 knots

you both cannot exit then for 1.5 hours forcing the chase to last 1.5 hours without the ability for the runner to exit at all

 

in the current system you will exit if he misses or if he cannot shoot

in the distance based exit system the chasing ship can keep you in battle for 1.5 hours by just sailing and doing nothing

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I think I'm missing something important here and am wondering if someone could please explain it to me since i havent run into this problem in my gameplay.

 

 

What is the issue with chasers tagging someone and locking them in combat?

 

Is it that people who sail chaserless ships cant catch people before they pop?

 

Is it that people dont think chasers should lock someone in combat?

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the problem with distance timers is inability to exit at all in some situation

for example

chasing ship is within the locking distance 

his speed is 12 knots your speed is 12 knots

you both cannot exit then for 1.5 hours forcing the chase to last 1.5 hours without the ability for the runner to exit at all

 

in the current system you will exit if he misses or if he cannot shoot

in the distance based exit system the chasing ship can keep you in battle for 1.5 hours by just sailing and doing nothing

I meant exit timers affected by closure rate.

 

No locking distances.

 

Base Exit Timer = 2 minutes

Closure rate with closest enemy = X (positive or negative)

Actual Exit Timer = 2X

 

So a speed-fit Renommee could give a 5-minute exit timer to a Santi, but the Santi would only have 40 seconds to catch the Renommee.

 

 

Is it that people who sail chaserless ships cant catch people before they pop?

 

Is it that people dont think chasers should lock someone in combat?

Yes and yes. 

 

Ships without bow chasers are useless for solo OW PvP and this does them a huge injustice.

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I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the chasers but variable winds could be a major issue if they slow down Open World travel.  The time spent on open world travel is already a huge burden to players and I am sure many players don't have the hour per day of game play already to spend just sailing.  If you cut the wind speed in half and that means the ships travel half as fast you just doubled the time it takes to get from one place or another.  I envision a time when someone goes to the website and see the weak winds and decides not to play the game that day because of travel times.  Variable winds within 30 minute or hour blocks would not be a bad thing (remember one game of game time is only 20 some odd minutes of RL time) but an entire day of weak winds is a game killer.

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Yes and yes. 

 

Ships without bow chasers are useless for solo OW PvP and this does them a huge injustice.

not sure thats true.  With a proper tag on the OS virtually any boat can catch any boat.

 

Take into account optimal wind angles in relation to the other ship and land in battle.   Force your prey to sail past or through you to reach their best angle.  Or drive them into the coast.     I have caught quiet a few far faster ships like this.

 

 

The vast majority of boats pvping on the OS are already the Renn, the conni, and the trinc.

 

Add chasers to all boats and say goodbye to the trinc.  Say goodbye for the need of a tagger at all.  Say hello to nothing but connis and fail fit renns. 

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Wind strength is a great idea.

 

I don't think that chasers should be added to ships if they don't exist on the model. But chasers shouldn't lock the enemy in combat either.

And as BungeeLemming suggested :

Chasers should (...) be taken from the broadside.

The shift process has to be time consuming and will remove a gun from either the broadside or the chaser position.

(...) While shifting you will need more men in the gun stations.

 

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Wind strength is very good, as long as it does not slow down the gameplay too much. (I would not like to have my ship turning 45 degrees in 5 minutes because of slow wind).

One strength of the game is the variety of ships with their advantages and disadvantages so please do not make them all equal. Let the armament as it is.

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Just my opinion, but the whole point of chasers in real life was the equivalent of keeping people "tagged" per se...  Yes, sometimes it stinks to try and tag and take enough sail off of a fleeing opponent, but ultimately its UP TO THE PLAYER to decide if he wants to spend the time to get him.  

 

I'd be fine with adding a mechanic, perhaps with the upcoming officer implementation, where if you hired a Carpenter, you could shift a gun or two from your broadside in battle.  Just add a tab to the repair function and make it like a 5 min wait.  

 

Just another useful perk of selecting the correct officer mix?

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