19 mln vs 60 thousand - the cost of crew - moderated

[maturin]

And, may I add, on our ships, when are we going to get crew that look military (in uniforms) and not a bunch of civilians manning guns?

Seamen didn't wear uniforms.

[Ned Loe]

I can't believe people call it too complex. What is so difficult? Hire crew sail as you did before, loose crew only if you sink (only dangerous for 1st rate cry babies). Cap more ports to get more crew. You will not run out, only if you take 25 1st rates and they all sink 5 days in a row.

 

Here are the numbers:

Populated Nation - total crew pool of 250,000 for 1000 players

Less Populated Nation - total crew pool 100,000 for 100 players (Better Value)

 

This will bring great balance. If you can't fight in battle and constantly loose 1st rates, it's time to step down in next PB because you need more people. You can't command and you loose lives, err maybe you should go Practice more and stay away from PB and 1-2nd rates? Recharge and let someone else try. 

It looks like everyone want s to push 1 button and have everything on the plate for them.

Great ideas devs, I hope you will go forward with it and let us test it.

[Taranis]

I can't believe people call it too complex. What is so difficult? Hire crew sail as you did before, loose crew only if you sink (only dangerous for 1st rate cry babies). Cap more ports to get more crew. You will not run out, only if you take 25 1st rates and they all sink 5 days in a row.

It looks like everyone want s to push 1 button and have everything on the plate for them.

Great ideas devs, I hope you will go forward with it and let us test it.

 

I love the idea.  That said, why do we have to call people that express concern "cry babies"?  Also, let's please remember that people paid money for this game - and that it is a giant time sink as it is already.

[The Spud]

But what is your proposal to reduce Trincomalee and 1st rate spam.

 

Well there will always be one type of ship dominating the seas, its the type of ship that will be the most cost effective, meaning the one that gives you the best bang for your buck. That was all just a thought i had, nothing realy refined so far.

 

I just couldn't imagine that for example the british navy would have to tell a rear admiral he can't get a crew for his first rate, because they just divided the last 1000 crew amongst some midshipmen in cutters. I even heard in a documentary they had private people specificaly recruit seaman, and that if they failed to fullfill the contract with just a few men, they would just press homeless people or poor people into recruitment. I can't imagine a nation running out of crew, in every world war when there was about to be a shortage of men they would mobilise the nation to fill the spots.

 

I could agree on a ship taking on rations, a number could say, enough rations for 10 days at sea with full rations, you could lower the rations to 3/4, 1/2 or 1/4 rations if you are stuck at sea for a long time, which could give some penalties. So every ship would require a set amount of gold to be at sea. A santi would need to take a massive amount of rations on for its full crew. If you have no rations left, your ship could be reduced in crew (death by famine) to a bare minimum amount (60%).

[Ned Loe]

I love the idea.  That said, why do we have to call people that express concern "cry babies"?  Also, let's please remember that people paid money for this game - and that it is a giant time sink as it is already.

People want to sail 1st rates, push one button and get kills. If there is a risk they get uncomfortable and cry. How I see this game - once you undock and go on OS it should make you very very uncomfortable and force you to pay attention because now you have those 300 sailors you are responsible for. Stay careless and you will loose them all. Who needs to go search for more guys in taverns telling them you wasted 300 lives on your previous voyage? No one. Scout horizon for sails else you as a 'Skilled" Captain and your crew will be talking to Davy Jones and his team. 

. 

[DeRuyter]

Well there will always be one type of ship dominating the seas, its the type of ship that will be the most cost effective, meaning the one that gives you the best bang for your buck. That was all just a thought i had, nothing realy refined so far.

 

 

 

You are describing the 74 gun 3rd rate and the 5th rate 38 gun 18 lb frigate (Trinc) towards the end of our time period. RN found those types to be as you described.

[Bart Smith]

How big nations will avoid "crew crisis" - no sailors in ports at all? Imagine Brits or Pirates sailing undercrewed ships?

[Ned Loe]

How big nations will avoid "crew crisis" - no sailors in ports at all? Imagine Brits or Pirates sailing undercrewed ships?

They won't, only if they keep bringing 25 1st rates and keep loosing them. (D-Day everyday type of thing, until they run out and have to wait to recharge)> I am sure crew will recharge at slow rate and every caped port will add % to recharge amount. There can not be 100 000 bank and that is it, people are born, they grow up and get skills. Life moves on it never stays still. So, numbers should always grow, but at what rate? Devs have to decide. 

 

Making a fixed crew amount for each nation will cause problems. Have crew recharge at slow rates. 

[Wyspa]

How big nations will avoid "crew crisis" - no sailors in ports at all? Imagine Brits or Pirates sailing undercrewed ships?

Plead for peace?

Thb I may be biased towards smaller nations but in my oppinion if smaller nation manages to exhaust larger one during the war, te bigger should just surrender at that point.

Or try to use more smaller ships and allocate their forces smarter.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Wyspa

[Taranis]

People want to sail 1st rates, push one button and get kills. If there is a risk they get uncomfortable and cry. How I see this game - once you undock and go on OS it should make you very very uncomfortable and force you to pay attention because now you have those 300 sailors you are responsible for. Stay careless and you will loose them all. Who needs to go search for more guys in taverns telling them you wasted 300 lives on your previous voyage? No one. Scout horizon for sails else you as a 'Skilled" Captain and your crew will be talking to Davy Jones and his team. 

. 

 

It is not what you say (which I agree with incidentally), it is how it is said.  Please "moderate" your tone, good sir.

[Ned Loe]

It is not what you say (which I agree with incidentally), it is how it is said.  Please "moderate" your tone, good sir.

I express my opinions like everyone else here. If 'cry' and 'baby' are offensive and makes you uncomfortable I advise you to bring this case to martial court and clearly explain why it makes you angry. Here we share our views on what is really happening in the game and try to figure out ideas for it's future.

 

Wind.

 

Please stay on topic. 

[Ronald Speirs]

Pros and Cons

 

Pros

1.) More realistic

2.) Making rate ships harder to maintain

3.) No more spamming and losing ships as it will hurt the nation

4.) Make players thing more strategically to how they participate in battles

 

Cons

1.) More might run from battles as its gonna cost them far greater then staying

2.) To much grinding to maintain

3.) Those that lose crew in battles do they lose them upon re-entering OW

 

There is more to add in time, will get back to ya

[Ned Loe]

Pros and Cons

 

Pros

1.) More realistic

2.) Making rate ships harder to maintain

3.) No more spamming and losing ships as it will hurt the nation

4.) Make players thing more strategically to how they participate in battles

 

Cons

1.) More might run from battles as its gonna cost them far greater then staying

2.) To much grinding to maintain

3.) Those that lose crew in battles do they lose them upon re-entering OW

 

There is more to add in time, will get back to ya

1.) Because they can, game allows it and if you have a good tag they won't. It's all about skill. 

2.) What grinding are we talking about? All I see is port captures. Port battles are fun!

3.) You don't loose crew if you still have duras. This means on your last dura you won't end up on OS after ur killed.

[Justme]

People want to sail 1st rates, push one button and get kills. If there is a risk they get uncomfortable and cry. How I see this game - once you undock and go on OS it should make you very very uncomfortable and force you to pay attention because now you have those 300 sailors you are responsible for. Stay careless and you will loose them all. Who needs to go search for more guys in taverns telling them you wasted 300 lives on your previous voyage? No one. Scout horizon for sails else you as a 'Skilled" Captain and your crew will be talking to Davy Jones and his team. 

.

No, players who do not have 6-8 hours time a day to play don't want to be forced to micromanage every aspect of the game. This is the direction the game is currently heading.

[Scud]

@OP

I don't like the idea of this change. Maybe implement something along these lines just for officers, but adding this additional frustration just for keeping the ship crewed does not sound like an improvement in game play experience.

What needs to be kept in perspective is that this is a game and first and foremost needs to be fun to play. While realism is an enticing aspect of gameplay, there is point at which it takes away from gameplay rather than adding to it. I feel like this feature will cross that line.

Realistically a naval battle took hours and sometimes days, even between just 2 ships. This game already has an 1 1/2 hour battle timer, which is quite long for a game. Would making the battle take 1-2 days of real life time be realistic? No doubt lol, in fact some extreme enthusiasts would love that. However that would make this game unplayable for most people, both from an aspect of enjoyment and shear time restraints.

I could go on and on with examples, but my point is if we take the realism too far it stops making the game fun, and starts making it dull and work-like. I don't see how the proposed change will do anything for this game, except make it more limiting than it already is. By that I mean it is already a game that most people can't or won't play because of the amount of time it takes to really do much of anything. Changes that take that even further will not improve this game in my opinion.

That's my 2 cents, make of it what you will.

[Twig]

I really like where the patch is moving us too.

One question: Will the boarding fight get a rework too? (I mean, if the boarding will get more important to optain crew)

[Vernon Merrill]

I've always found that duels and small/large battles are great options for people with limited time, no?

[Ned Loe]

No, players who do not have 6-8 hours time a day to play don't want to be forced to micromanage every aspect of the game. This is the direction the game is currently heading.

You don't have 2 minutes to sail to port to refill your crew? Don't make people laugh funny sir. 

[Niagara]

This to me sounds awesome but most people here are focusing on the crew side in the sense that it will effect battle readiness. Few mention the costs involved as Admin has stated. I like the idea that huge ships also comes with huge costs thus making it a very big investment and thus a risk, this will hopefully as some have pointed out give us a more balanced use of ships. The idea that the crew will cost you an upkeep is good and might lead to players doing trading runs with a skeleton crew to cut costs

 

Now with the other ideas being discussed this will make it harder to micromanage if you want to "game the game" as some have mentioned, however I am sure we can find a balance for both the casual and the non casual players that will add more then it hinders our fun.

 

Some have mentioned in suggestions that crew itself should have different levels as that favours a experienced and successful captain that manages to train the crew and keep it alive and I for one like that notion but it might be going to far atm.

 

Officers also sounds interesting but I hope we can try to avoid getting a few very good officers and a few not so good. Thus getting rare sought after officers and common simple officers that no one actually uses. I see this in modules also and the most sought after are ofc the non craft able ones that people want to use, and often only drop from large pvp engagements.

 

Officers could more be sailors and lesser officers that have a exp system of them self and they would randomly gain insights after battles etc that influence there abilities to help you and your ship.

 

This discussion has some very interesting ideas and points.

[Eishen]

No, players who do not have 6-8 hours time a day to play don't want to be forced to micromanage every aspect of the game. This is the direction the game is currently heading.

 

By the nature of the change it will have quite little effect indeed in casual players, as crew probably  will be "refilled"  when they need it.

 

The "perfect" solution would be the one that allows "plug and play players" play  simply  and hardcores can worry in background objectives as owning land and declaring wars.

 

Problems arise if (when ) some players want  not to bother with details but argue against being directed by other players , prefering things being imposed by designers ... 

[Justme]

You don't have 2 minutes to sail to port to refill your crew? Don't make people laugh funny sir.

I don't see how this has a positive impact on those who rely on captured traders and player warships with 1 dura.

This is a slippery slope we are heading down.

[Mrdoomed]

I like this idea IF it means more cost for the players who sail massive ships ment for port battles or massive engagements , not just a bunch of 3rd 2nd and 1st rates out in ow sailing around doing quest.

It will really make captians like myself who cruise the ow in frigates and smaller more able to attack ships.

[Teutonic]

While I understand your concern, I think the devs NEED to introduce crew management/maintenance cost to balance the game and prevent the Santissima creep we see already somehow.

 

- Player Ranks do not work in the long run, because gaining rank is static. Once you have reached max rank - what prevents you from sailing the biggest and most badass ship?

- Crafting Ranks do not work either, once you reach max rank in crafting you can make your own stream of Santissimas (only limited by labour hours - which is a good thing already, but not the final solution)

 

So, we need a system of ship maintenance cost that will force players to make a conscious decision on what ship to sail in Open World. Right now, there is littel incentive to sail a Frigate/Belle Poule when I can sail a Trincomalee/Essex which is the more powerful ship. With crew maintenance cost, sailing Frigates/Belle Poules/Surprise may be significanlty more cost effective. So you make a choice: badass but expensive or cost effective but not the meanest ship in the ocean?

 

This is a very much needed feature, the question is: how can we make it as simple as possible and less of a micromanagement nightmare?

 

Cheers,

 

Hugo

 

Could not have said it better myself. Current gameplay is just 1st rate creep, if nothing changes you will see nothing but Santis everywhere. This is a needed change in order to give smaller ships actual meaning to sail. Hugo gives a perfect example, why would I ever be in a frig or belle, when I could be in a trinc/essex that are both far superior to the previous two? Especially with the ships with 5 durability, there is no reason to be in a smaller ship unless you are going into shallow water areas.

 

I too want crew management to be simple and to not over complicate the game, but the current game's timeline is not lending itself well to new players if all they see is players in 3rd rates or above.

[Ned Loe]

I don't see how this has a positive impact on those who rely on captured traders and player warships with 1 dura.

This is a slippery slope we are heading down.

Sailing 1 dura ship is risky, do you like risk? If no, then don't sail one and use it for PvE. 

[Bigvalco]

Could not have said it better myself. Current gameplay is just 1st rate creep, if nothing changes you will see nothing but Santis everywhere. This is a needed change in order to give smaller ships actual meaning to sail. Hugo gives a perfect example, why would I ever be in a frig or belle, when I could be in a trinc/essex that are both far superior to the previous two? Especially with the ships with 5 durability, there is no reason to be in a smaller ship unless you are going into shallow water areas.

 

I too want crew management to be simple and to not over complicate the game, but the current game's timeline is not lending itself well to new players if all they see is players in 3rd rates or above.

 

 You will still have the first rate creep, the defending force normally takes less losses than the attackers so they likely won't lose the port ever with a system that makes it more harmful to lose those types of ships.

 

 I feel more like making it expensive to own or sail largers ships with provisions is the best idea rather than limiting how often we can sail certain ships because we are waiting to replenish more crew. You will see less people sailing the first rates if every day at see they have to feed 1100 sailors. Or make a fee for having a ship docked, so that people have the option to mothball a ship or keep it active and ready at a moments notice, this way you will see less large ships sitting in dock just waiting to be used.