Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Hotfix 9.72

Recommended Posts

The beatings will continue till morale improves ?

 

That sentence is attributed to Captain Bligh...and we all know the results :)

Attributed to Captain Bligh, which is to say a myth.

 

How pertinent to the current situation. :P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to test it further but I have a sneaky suspicion our longs are not working as they should. Or it could be ship class. Playing against a Mercury (barely survived with Live oak Surprise with longs) switching to Frigate ( live oak with planking) and carronades rather than longs put the game on much more of an even keel. Damage increase was simply astronomical. Armour was ok. It definitely underperformed with longs. The longs on a frigate (18lb) should have split a Pickle in two. They damaged but were underwhelming.

I have to test it with a lower ship class to see if carronades alone solve the problem or if it also class related and if they do repeat with mediums to isolate the problem down. Won't be able to do that til later today.

Frigate was undermanned with penalties to reload time. Surprise was fully manned. You can discount reload time alone as an issue.n

Edited by SeaMist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is fair to say that 4th rates and up in packs are about right.  Honestly commodore fleet missions seem about spot on difficulty to me.  When we do a proper line attack and focus fire they are reasonably easy but if you ragtag brawl them you hear people yelling for help.  This is great!!

 

The solo side of things seems a little OP but not by a long way.  say drop their accuracy on ranks that play 5ths and down by 15% and your probably spot on.

 

One thing that is sorely missing from the game as newbies is a basic tutorial system.  This is not a dev thing really but if you were to get a few of the better guides in a youtube channel and pop up a message on login for players ranked lower than M&C pointing to the youtube channel you will solve that problem.  teach them cannons vs carronades, aiming,  manual sailing for getting out of irons and power steering.  How to depower for aiming but also for hiding the belly.  the basic concept of line fighting.  once they have that they should be able to win solos with a little tweaking to accuracy of the AI.

 

 

Half the issue with the AI and players is that players don't know how to depower when needed.  I constantly tell people in TS channels that when they are about to get shot at to depower and hide their bellies.   Too often people hard turn into a broadside and pick up a leak fest which they take a long time to recover from in low occupancy ships. 

 

I don't see water in my ship very often and towards the end of fleets need to pick my sides to attack to hide weak armour which makes it a smarter game.

 

Running lines makes a massive difference in these battles and it is fantastic.  Once people learn to follow the leader and hit the same sides of armour and listen to people yelling out priority targets then the AI is clearly outmatched.  When the players don't follow lines and shoot alternate sides of ships, don't hide their weaknesses or drive into swarms then they get chewed up.  This is exactly what you want from the AI.

 

The parts of the AI that need to change is the way it reacts to wind and land/ships.  They should be shooting broadsides instead of machine gunning like the ingers.  Those things are deadly if you leave them fighting all the way through a battle.  Right now i prioritized ingers over pavels and 3rds because they are so dangerous chewing up your armour.  The fact that the enemy turns through the wind is a little concerning.  They do it too often for no reason and if they screw it up and get locked in irons they just fail at being AI and become sitting ducks.  The way they handle being pushed around is also interesting and inconsistent.  Too often you can just sail up to their front quarter in a race and turn them straight around into the wind without them even counter steering or slamming on the brakes to try and break the forced turn.  They just seem to be happy to turn into the wind.  If you break off them as they get within about 30 Degrees of a headwind and manage to sail in front of them they continue to turn to the wind trying to get a broadside off at you instead of realising they are now useless and about to be swarmed.  I suggest that if they are within 25 degrees of the wind they should have a evasive maneuver mode  where they try and turn away from the wind and if the enemy is in boarding range,drop their sails to board.  if they are not in range then they should just turn into the enemy broadside regardless and try and get at least 90 degrees to the wind.

 

There should be a seperate evasive maneuvour mode for land which will solve the traders issue.  The idea for them  is to sail withthe wind as best they can until they are in carronade sorta range and then swich AI to a brawling mode.  once they exit carronade mode they should again sail with the wind as best they  without going within 40 degrees of the opposition ship until carronade range again then they turn to fight again.

 

Personally i think the gros ventre would be better served by having another 60 crew and giving them 100 marines so that they are not a dawdle to beat with connies and 3rds with no mods.  This is not unrealistic as the ship clearly can carry so having 100 marines total makes sense and still leaves the same number of sailors to handle the sailing/guns.  Again this is about balance not about ease.

 

Also boarding is an interesting thing regarding AI. I am not sure how it should work but really if you have 8 ships vs 10 ships and the AI boards someone ......is that right? i mean theres 9 other ships shooting at you. Is this something that would happen or is it just a priority issue? To be fair AI boardings nowadays are very hard to win as they seem to have marines when they shouldn't but then you shouldn't allow your self to be boarded.  I actually kind of like the fact that although leaks are not an issue at the current level but boardings are stacked against you. This is a good thing.  the AI sometimes cuts the line and forces people to react which is good in my mind.  I personally think that side or the AI is actually really effective.  I would like to see the enemy fleet cut through lines more often so that you cant just S them to death without them getting multiple ships on both sides of a line.

 

The disposable 4ths & 5ths is an issue in my mind and i think that they should change it so that 5ths and down are cap&keep.  Connies & Ingers probably should be cap and keep but not purchaseable however make connies & Ingers not sail in OW fleets so they can only be captured in Fleets missions where there is a bit of risk.  Same with solo missions make solo missions uncappable so they cant be farmed.

 

I personally think this would be the best way to make it risk vs reward friendly.  You can cap 4ths if you leave them to the last few ships in a fleet but then you had to dump in 30+ minutes of time to get them.

 

At one stage we were capping a 3rd rate every 13 minutes in the bigger fleet areas pre patch so making  it 1 or 2 connies every 30+ minutes should make it have some value and still block out them from being disposable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A live oak ship a full category up+ from the ship it is facing, with cannons that are 3 category's higher, should not be taking the same or even close to the same damage from the smaller guns. Unless there are 3x as many or more smaller caliber guns firing at you, of which the opposite was true in this case really. All of that before considering how much more hp per side, and armor. There is a reason smaller fish run from bigger fish, and that is how it should be. Should I be immune to their guns? No. Should they be able to go blow for blow and come even remotely close? No.

2nd off. No one cares how good anyone else is, except the people that think they are good/better than others, or are trying to convince other people that they are better than they really are. Most of us just want to have fun playing this game, and when every single AI opponent is god-like with around a 95% efficiency with their guns it is not fun. No normal human being can come close to that without putting the end of the barrel against the enemy hull before firing. People that feel the need to prove themselves to others, should be playing against other people. Leave the people who just want to enjoy the game out of the ego contest.

All that being said you are entitled to your opinion, but those of us who are sick of the "get better like me" argument are entitled to ours as well  :)

 

 

I fully agree. It's not about the wannabe wargame geniuses who want everyone to spend most of their lives at their PC getting better at one warGAME. It's about having a stress free and enjoyable time PLAYING. There has to be a degree of difficulty. When that degree of difficulty is created by UNFAIR and UNHISTORICAL strengths in the AI (e.g. Brig with 99% accuracy, battleship armour, sailing prowess and overpowered 6 pdrs versus Niagara with human accuracy, etc.) then something is seriously elitist about that wargame.

 

As I keep saying, DEVS: go back to where the thing diverged from a straight line of success and start from there. Drop the AI back to what it was. Stop the leaks. (I am fed up with running away in a leaky boat, when it is the AI that should be doing that, given the number of holes I put in it.) AND stop DIVIDING players. You will not conquer if you divide; you will lose.

Edited by Lannes
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I fully agree. It's not about the wannabe wargame geniuses who want everyone to spend most of their lives at their PC getting better at one warGAME. It's about having a stress free and enjoyable time PLAYING. There has to be a degree of difficulty. When that degree of difficulty is created by UNFAIR and UNHISTORICAL strengths in the AI (e.g. Brig with 99% accuracy, battleship armour, sailing prowess and overpowered 6 pdrs versus Niagara with human accuracy, etc.) then something is seriously elitist about that wargame.

 

As I keep saying, DEVS: go back to where the thing diverged from a straight line of success and start from there. Drop the AI back to what it was. Stop the leaks. (I am fed up with running away in a leaky boat, when it is the AI that should be doing that, given the number of holes I put in it.) AND stop DIVIDING players. You will not conquer if you divide; you will lose.

 

I can understand both sides actually...the ones who just want to have fun, and those who want stronger opponents...

 

Wouldn't it be an easier way if  you e.g.  

1.accept rank 5 (fleet) order

2. get a question of how difficult you want the AI to be? e.g. normal (pre-patch) and hard (AI now)

2.1 where normal would give like 50% XP and credits and hard gives the normal XP you get now (mission XP / gold could stay the same, as most of the XP and gold  comes from sinking the ships anyway)

2.2 that way the "elitists" get rewarded for higher risk and the ones who just want to enjoy the game still get a chance to

 

Like this

Edited by NoShipSailsForever
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fully agree. It's not about the wannabe wargame geniuses who want everyone to spend most of their lives at their PC getting better at one warGAME. It's about having a stress free and enjoyable time PLAYING. There has to be a degree of difficulty. When that degree of difficulty is created by UNFAIR and UNHISTORICAL strengths in the AI (e.g. Brig with 99% accuracy, battleship armour, sailing prowess and overpowered 6 pdrs versus Niagara with human accuracy, etc.) then something is seriously elitist about that wargame.

 

As I keep saying, DEVS: go back to where the thing diverged from a straight line of success and start from there. Drop the AI back to what it was. Stop the leaks. (I am fed up with running away in a leaky boat, when it is the AI that should be doing that, given the number of holes I put in it.) AND stop DIVIDING players. You will not conquer if you divide; you will lose.

 

Agree 100%... I get so frustrated with people saying "they removed easy mode"... Bots with Aimbots, ridiculous manuverability and DPS that is literally impossible for the type of guns they are using is no fun at all... And has nothing to do with "easy mode". That's just bad programming being camouflaged by ai-cheating.

The even bigger problem: Since the beginning of time one uses PVE to earn money to finance your PVP ventures. You broke this... I lost 1 durability on a ship I was planning to resell... So bots cost me 200k... While I was trying to make money...

Now, if I made a mistake to justify this, I'd be perfectly fine with it... But I played exactly as I always play... I would consider myself in the top 25% of players, skill wise (statistics would put me even higher, but let's stay on the safe side). Now if I have those kind of problems, what on earth must a beginner to this game feel like?

 

And the kicker: All of this happened in a mission that was a Level BELOW what I "should" have been facing. AND I didn't even have a chance to avoid it... Got hit, had 6 holes, aimed perfect angle of sail (get away and angle for minimal incoming damage), took crew of sails and guns and on survival and popped repair... - SANK unceremoniously a half minute later... - One of the most frustrating and disappointing experiences I ever had in a video game... A video game that I LOVED WITH ALL MY HEART only 24 hours earlier... :(

 

Now for PVP the patch is better... But that doesn't matter if PVE is not only ruined, but you proudly proclaim that will be the last AI change for a while... PLEASE fix it! Fast!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand both sides actually...the ones who just want to have fun, and those who want stronger opponents...

 

Wouldn't it be an easier way if  you e.g.  

1.accept rank 5 (fleet) order

2. get a question of how difficult you want the AI to be? e.g. normal (pre-patch) and hard (AI now)

2.1 where normal would give like 50% XP and credits and hard gives the normal XP you get now (mission XP / gold could stay the same, as most of the XP and gold  comes from sinking the ships anyway)

2.2 that way the "elitists" get rewarded for higher risk and the ones who just want to enjoy the game still get a chance to

 

Like this

 

 

No, just no... That's not fixing anything... Most pointless bandaid suggested so far, no offence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to test it further but I have a sneaky suspicion our longs are not working as they should. Or it could be ship class. Playing against a Mercury (barely survived with Live oak Surprise with longs) switching to Frigate ( live oak with planking) and carronades rather than longs put the game on much more of an even keel. Damage increase was simply astronomical. Armour was ok. It definitely underperformed with longs. The longs on a frigate (18lb) should have split a Pickle in two. They damaged but were underwhelming.

I have to test it with a lower ship class to see if carronades alone solve the problem or if it also class related and if they do repeat with mediums to isolate the problem down. Won't be able to do that til later today.

Frigate was undermanned with penalties to reload time. Surprise was fully manned. You can discount reload time alone as an issue.n

 

I don't know exact game and damage mechanics. But those long 18lb cannons have huge penetrating power and a Pickle has abismal armor value's. Thus it could be possible that those cannonballs from the longs just went straight through the pickle, without damaging it much..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know exact game and damage mechanics. But those long 18lb cannons have huge penetrating power and a Pickle has abismal armor value's. Thus it could be possible that those cannonballs from the longs just went straight through the pickle, without damaging it much..

there is not AP munition shot...so "over-penetrating" in terms of cannon ball against wodden hull means double damage as in: penetrate 2 hull sides, damage interior (cannons, sailors, structural components) on the way to exti the ship. That actually means HIGHER damage.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the time you're into 5th rates, though, the AI should be extremely challenging. 

 

I strongly disagree with that view, for two reasons:

 

1) there is no game in which also the normal PVE bots show more skill (and are a higher challenge) than average players of the same level (and right now - given the same boat - IA is more dangerous and challenging than the half of players);

 

2) in a MMORPG, PVE content shall INCLUDE also extremely challenging contents (with better rewards) but should not consist only in extremely chellenging contents with standard rewards. This because the normal level of difficulty of PVE content shall be set on the average skill of and average player or the game will simply not have enough playerbase.

 

To summarize: you seem to want that every and each fight in game shall be a "boss fight", also if it gives a "grey drop" and provides low progression rewards. It's a formula that simply won't work (and in fact no MMORPG game does this).

 

And It won't work because a video game is still a game and thus shall not be a sort of pseudo-work in which a player is compelled to do "extremely challenging things" in order to have also the basic very basic results in terms of rewards and progressions. And this is true in particular for a game that, like NA, includes a massive PVP part, which is the usual (and right, in my opinion) place where "extremely challenging" contents should be in MMORPGs.

Edited by victor
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading the comments here I come to the conclussion that this Game is dying, with last patch.

 

From being hardcore every day PVP:er, Im now down to only trade a few hours per day, only to have Contact with mates

and see if Changes to be made in gamplay.

 

DEVS: take it serious,  its going down fast, real fast

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there is not AP munition shot...so "over-penetrating" in terms of cannon ball against wodden hull means double damage as in: penetrate 2 hull sides, damage interior (cannons, sailors, structural components) on the way to exti the ship. That actually means HIGHER damage.

Shot with enough energy to overpenetrate is less efficient at producing splinters, if we're talking about reality here.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×