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Cid Pahlavi

Compass wood ruin the economy

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After the update,the sell price of compass wood in consuming port reached 1500 gold each,while you can still collect them in production building with 528 gold each.One can earn 486000 gold per day only by selling compass wood that he collect in his compass wood forest,and players in Denmark-Norway even don't have to take the risk of being robbed,compass wood is consumed in their home port,only thing they need to do is collect all the wood and teleport.This thing can easily cause the money over issue and ruin the economy.

 

Another thing I fell upset is the price of iron ore,which is the second biggest metals in demand of ships crafting,reached 149 each,only cheaper than gold and compass wood.This made the prime cost of ships much more higher than before.

 

In my opinion,the price of compass wood should turn back to the level before the patch,and the price of iron ore should down to the 95 or lower.If you want to increase the income of trading,do something about the country goods please.

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It is only an issue for the first couple of days, once stocks have normalised it will even out.

Regarding people using their buildings to get compass would... They of course can do that, but then they are not supporting their ship builders with resources they need, so prices of ships go up. Which again, as they are making such a profit, will even things out.

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It is only an issue for the first couple of days, once stocks have normalised it will even out.

Regarding people using their buildings to get compass would... They of course can do that, but then they are not supporting their ship builders with resources they need, so prices of ships go up. Which again, as they are making such a profit, will even things out.

It is not a good idea to wait them change automatically.

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You can easily make 500k per hour by just grinding missions...... so the effect of dealing with compass wood is not a big one.

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You can easily make 500k per hour by just grinding missions...... so the effect of dealing with compass wood is not a big one.

500k per hour .. holy shiznit!

 

I am lucky to top 15K per hour! I must be doing something wrong!  :o

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I capped an NPC Trader Lynx last night with 68 Compass Wood aboard. When I got back to La Habana, I saw someone had a purchase contract out for 1,000G each... woohoo, jackpot :)

 

However, with prices like those, I guarantee people are going to start serving the demand via production buildings and I expect within a week or less the price will come down.

 

Supply & demand, etc.

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It is only an issue for the first couple of days, once stocks have normalised it will even out.

Regarding people using their buildings to get compass would... They of course can do that, but then they are not supporting their ship builders with resources they need, so prices of ships go up. Which again, as they are making such a profit, will even things out.

 

It's an issue because labor hours are already the main reason for inflation and if people use their labor hours to generate money, this only amplifies the problem.

 

There is no stock normalizing. The sale price of 1500 is guaranteed, and production buildings will keep producing.

This is not a realistic economy, this is a static money generator.

 

Same goes for Surfimp: the price will NOT come down. It's fixed to be 1500. There is no supply and demand

Edited by Quineloe
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It's an issue because labor hours are already the main reason for inflation and if people use their labor hours to generate money, this only amplifies the problem.

 

The amount of issued labour hours are definitely not the reason for inflation. The abundance of earned gold with missions and in some cases PvP is; or better yet, the possibilities to spend it on are still limited. However you want to look at it.

 

Labour hours, especially fixed are a meager (and perhaps only) measure to combat inflation the player has, in spite of the abundance of earned gold, but cannot maintain as a single measure to control inflation.

 

In the end its the faucets that generate the problem, the sinks that are not abundant enough to combat it and groups that are not organised enough to make an agreement on pricing a labour hour to set their internal economy will suffer for it.

Edited by Lytse Pier
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So you're saying, in a supply and demand economy, only the demand can be responsible for inflation, and the supply cannot?

 

 

One thing I don't get it why has Compass wood made this economic powerhouse resource, and the national trade goods remained untouched?

Edited by Quineloe

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So you're saying, in a supply and demand economy, only the demand can be responsible for inflation, and the supply cannot?

 

 

One thing I don't get it why has Compass wood made this economic powerhouse resource, and the national trade goods remained untouched?

 

I am saying that money is acquired too easy through different means. The compass wood trade is one method that fuels it, but certainly not the main source. I am thus stating that the supply of money in this game is not compensated by ways to spend it, hence you could argue if it is a supply- or a demand problem. Either way the only possible way for organised players to combat it and not have the new players being faced by ridiculous prices is forming a cartel. A cartel that sets a labour hour price will thus actually deflate the pricing on goods in spite of an inflating coin by not acknowledging any value for the coin itself.  

 

With only valuing the labour hour to set their economy a group can reverse an oligopoly in not stopping the accruement of the coin itself, but by giving it no value. In a sense they say: "Nice that you have money, but if you don't have labour hours or are not able to activate your friends labour hours, you are still a poor man."

Edited by Lytse Pier
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am thus stating that the supply of money in this game is not compensated by ways to spend it, hence you could argue if it is a supply- or a demand problem

 

So you're basically agreeing with me that restricted labor hours is one of the reasons after all.

Labor hours directly remove money from the game - unless abused by this here. However, this compass wood scheme been in for 3 days now. The price for labor hours has been skyrocketing long before that.

We would spend way more money on mining resources if we weren't twenty ships deep in resource stock at this point, with no labor hours to actually build them. Instead, my gold account goes up, up and up.  I blew a million on boarding parties yesterday because there's no point in having that million.

 

Like I said in the other thread, I don't believe for one minute that your high grade note price in Willemstad is 25k, and if it were, people could simply buy the whole stock and sell it back either right there or somewhere else for massive profit margins.  Ile a Vache is less than an hour away, and I'm certain British, Pirates and probably even Danish would just love to buy high grade notes there for 75k - giving the guy running this show 200% profit on invested capital.

 

And this would easily be possible because you don't have the labor hours available to prevent him from doing that by flooding the market with more notes than he can afford

 

But this is all moot, because high grade notes aren't 25k in Willemstad, and we both know that.

Edited by Quineloe

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So you're basically agreeing with me that restricted labor hours is one of the reasons after all.

 

No, I am not.

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One way would be to enable people to actually buy something - like SHIPS for example. There isn't a Conni, 3rd or 2nd rate to be had on EU1 even if you had money ...

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And the reason is the discrepancy between limited labor hours for all, regardless of rank, and the easy come gold ...

I'm now level 39 and aim for 40 soon, I've over 1,4M gold without even trying. Do you think I need more gold? No.

What I need is more crafting hours to build ships that I now need to fight (no more capping IA), and whatever hours left, I'll use for MC upgrades.

 

Only need for money is to by raw materials and they are cheap ;)

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And the reason is the discrepancy between limited labor hours for all, regardless of rank, and the easy come gold ...

I'm now level 39 and aim for 40 soon, I've over 1,4M gold without even trying. Do you think I need more gold? No.

What I need is more crafting hours to build ships that I now need to fight (no more capping IA), and whatever hours left, I'll use for MC upgrades.

 

Only need for money is to by raw materials and they are cheap ;)

Gold is a currency, there are others that DO need it.  Why dont you try BUYING manufactured goods or paying lower level players for their time to do some work for you.  ITsa an MMO, make some friends or business partners.

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The bottleneck for us is highly skilled labor hours (44+) and those aren't just easily available on the market.

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500k per hour .. holy shiznit!

 

I am lucky to top 15K per hour! I must be doing something wrong!  :o

 

Tw752fg.jpg

 

He's not joking. This just took me 40 minutes. Someone even better at the game than me probably could have done it even faster.

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He's not joking. This just took me 40 minutes. Someone even better at the game than me probably could have done it even faster.

 

How do you archive so much gold?

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To expand on the arguments presented by Lytse Pier:

 

Given the basic assumptions that

1) the devs (and Hugo van Grojt, for that matter) do not want EVERYBODY to sail the biggest rated ships all the time because it would be unrealistic and boring

2) there has to be a limit on the availability for players to procure such high powered ships if you want to keep the 1st Rate population at bay

 

Naval Action has two ways of limiting the 1st Rate population:

1) make ships exponentially expensive in terms of money (Gold) cost

2) adjust ship scarcity by limiting the amount of ships that can be built in real time by the labour hour mechanic

 

Because the amount of money you can generate by just grinding it out (NPC fleets, the ridiculous compass wood trading mechanic, farming your alt accounts - you name it), money cost is not a viable system to control ship scarcity because of the inflation problem.

 

This makes labour hours the single viable option to control the ship population becaus no amount of grinding can affect the globally available labour hour amount (the only small exception is capturing trader ships and breaking them down for ship parts, which is a very small mechanic to "produce" labour hours)

 

In the current Patch we finally see that money has zero value because ship building is now severely limited only by the amount of available labour hours. And I personally think that this is the only thing preventing the ingame economy from a gamebreaking failure right now.

 

I am sure that the Devs will make the economy work, eventually, but I think that it is a secondary concern for them at the current development stage. So, no point in crying over how broken the economy is. A dedicated group of Dutch nation players try to solve the inflation problem with an internal cartel barter system and it seems to work decent enough not to completely discourage newer players from playing the game.


How do you archive so much gold?

 

The more important question is: what can he do with that money?

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So I take it the Dutch didn't face any 25 first rate fleets yet, since you think the system works so well.

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So I take it the Dutch didn't face any 25 first rate fleets yet, since you think the system works so well.

 

How come that every comment I read from you in any thread has a distinctly 1. not constructive and 2. condescending tone to it, Quineloe? This is, of course, my very personal subjective opinion. For this reasons, my apologies for not responding to your input in the future as you will be on my ignore list from now on. Feel free to PM in the future if you want to discuss economic matters, I shall leave that channel of communication open.

 

Cheers,

 

Hugo

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The problem is that the labour shortage means that no ships of any size are getting made. With the sudden bump to xp and ranks we now have more players at the rated ship level and less hours to go around to the high level crafters. 

You should be able to invest gold and time to increase your ability to increase your production hours. LH are increasing pressure on the cost of ships; if i have a finite number of hours and demand is increasing exponentially than prices and inflation will only rise. 

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Let's not lose sight of this thread, gents. 500 flat profit on a unit of Compass Wood has made some people stupidly rich and needs to be fixed, especially when Pedro Cay is sitting on literally millions of Compass Wood at this point. I'd even go so far as to suggest a gold wipe when the port reset finally rolls around.

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Let's not lose sight of this thread, gents. 500 flat profit on a unit of Compass Wood has made some people stupidly rich and needs to be fixed, especially when Pedro Cay is sitting on literally millions of Compass Wood at this point. I'd even go so far as to suggest a gold wipe when the port reset finally rolls around.

 

If you want to test anything, you need to reset the economy first, I agree. A Gold wipe might be less harsh on people than a full wipe of everything. The faucets of cheap Gold need closing or new over-time gold sinks (increasingly high cost for crew and ship management according to size, empire taxes according to size?, maybe some form of deterioration of money in the bank...?) need opening if we want money to have any meaning again....

 

I am intrigued what he Devs will come up with

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