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1st rates problem AGAIN

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Hello!

 

Firstly I must congratulate the devs on ALMOST solving an extremely difficult problem. 1st rates.

The 1 durability mechanic, paired with the extreme amount of invested time required for the crew to sail it, AND the cost of the ship have all been great steps towards discouraging 25 v 25 1st rate fights.

 

However as more and more people are hitting their final ranks, we're seeing a good 10-15 1st rates in port battles now which HAS to again, be addressed. 

 

I know that port battles are being reworked, and the way we approach them in future will be different in regards to the ships we choose. However we will still have too many 1st rates.  And unfortunately the beautiful new ships like the ingermanland just won't be touched because of it.

 

The only thing I have off the top of my head to combat this is simply to make them more expensive to craft.  Im not talking about material cost. Im talking about a fixed cost for pressing the "craft" button.

 

For example:

1st rates cost 500k to press craft [on top of the material cost]

2nd rates cost 250k to press craft [on top of the material cost]

3rd rates cost 50k to press craft [on top of the material cost]

 

The immedite reaction to adding another 500k onto a first rate might seem ludicrious because then a lot less people will get to sail them, and will WANT to sail them if they are at risk of losing a 1 mil, 1 dura ship. BUT THAT IS THE POINT! 1st rates were EXTREMELY uncommon.  1st rates were hardly used because of the extraordinary cost of making them, and because it was deemed too risky to assign them to smaller squadrons. 2nd rates were very commonly used flagships, and even sometimes, 3rd rates. 

 

On top of that, i'll reiterate the point that we'll have so many beautiful smaller SOLs that will just be excluded from battles, and there will be no point sailing anything smaller than a heavy 2nd rate.

Edited by Monkey Bullet
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I am repeating myself, but the only problem of excessive numbers of 1st rates are free 3rd rates available.

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Wait till the crew gets added in. We will see how that affects your ability to sail 1st rates.

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I am repeating myself, but the only problem of excessive numbers of 1st rates are free 3rd rates available.

This. I feel that Third Rates that are on the seas should be made uncappable, only available to sink for XP.

 

either that or they drastically reduce the number of third rate spawn points

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This. I feel that Third Rates that are on the seas should be made uncappable, only available to sink for XP.

 

either that or they drastically reduce the number of third rate spawn points

 

When "portbatlle" ships have to be crafted, there will be large demand for high durability, low cost ships like Ingermanland, Constitution even Trinco and Essex and whatever comes with 3+ durability and solid firepower. 

Monkey Bullet is right, current situation allows us to keep labour hours and resources to produce 2nd and 1st rates while the smaller ships are rarely crafted and even more rarely seen.

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Despite the rapid fixes needed - Money will not solve it, it simply delays it. Anyone will amass Money and then get the 1st rates again. - Removing 3rd rates and 4th rates from being captured might be a fast forward fix and would be worth testing after the Land Ahoy and War&Peace map wipe.

 

Thus as I imagine it...

 

 

Ships of the Line must be tied to a Navy/Admiralty mechanic and not simply being "given/being accessbile/bought" by any peasant that reaches a rank.

 

Admiralty Rank, tied to pvp achievements for example or some other similar mechanic, should ensure a Career and thus open access to the Admiralty Pool of ships or even be given direct command of a 1st rate.

 

Despite this being a game we can have a system that mimics this.

 

For "private owners" the limit is the frigate levels which is okay for a game compromise.

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I would also like to make Sols unable to be captured so they don't just circle in the big pool of ships, make people sink them,break up or send to admiralty.

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Despite the rapid fixes needed - Money will not solve it, it simply delays it. Anyone will amass Money and then get the 1st rates again. - Removing 3rd rates and 4th rates from being captured might be a fast forward fix and would be worth testing after the Land Ahoy and War&Peace map wipe.

 

Thus as I imagine it...

 

 

Ships of the Line must be tied to a Navy/Admiralty mechanic and not simply being "given/being accessbile/bought" by any peasant that reaches a rank.

 

Admiralty Rank, tied to pvp achievements for example or some other similar mechanic, should ensure a Career and thus open access to the Admiralty Pool of ships or even be given direct command of a 1st rate.

 

Despite this being a game we can have a system that mimics this.

 

For "private owners" the limit is the frigate levels which is okay for a game compromise.

 

Some sort of gaining loyalty points, that are needed to sail anything above frigate, based on your success in PVP would be great. 

Edited by Porpoise
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Well, look.  Devs already increased XP needed for higher ranks.  Did it stop those people who has lots of time to play?  No.  It slowed down those who don't.  And they get bored being stuck at the same rank (say before flag-cpt), same ship, not being able to participate port battles for a while ("3rd rates and up") and quit playing.

Add more money requirements?  It will increase all prices and make everything even worse for the beginners.  

Edited by Inigo Balboa
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Well, look.  Devs already increased XP needed for higher ranks.  Did it stop those people who was lots of time to play?  No.  It slowed down those who don't.  And they get bored being stuck at the same rank (say before flag-cpt), same ship, not being able to participate port battles for a while ("3rd rates and up") and quit playing.

Add more money requirements?  It will increase all prices and make everything even worse for the beginners.

Actually, XP requirements were increased because they were artificially set low for testing purposes prior to EA. :)

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I personally would steer away from the increased cost as that would inflate the market hard. It would encourage gold farmers as other such people that would ruin the economy of the game. I would suggest  a crafting cool down timer for each class of ship. This way it slows down the amount of 3rd rates- 1st rates entering the market. If individual crafters want to put a price on their cd or just blow their cd for a clan mate or buddy they can.

 

But we will still see a build up of these large ships no matter what as the game gets older.  

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@OP

Doesn't matter how expensive or hard to craft you make something, if they are superior, players / clans will find a way. Might take em longer, but they'll get em one way or another.

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As anyone who has ever owned a big boat can tell you the big expense is not the up front cost of buying it, it is daily cost of maintaining it. But even crew expenses and maintenance expenses will just slow things down a bit.

 

If you really want to limit certain ships then make BPs single dura. You get a Victory BP, you can build 1 Victory. Otherwise it is just a matter of cash and you can have a nerf army make an armada of 1st rates.

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As anyone who has ever owned a big boat can tell you the big expense is not the up front cost of buying it, it is daily cost of maintaining it. But even crew expenses and maintenance expenses will just slow things down a bit.

 

If you really want to limit certain ships then make BPs single dura. You get a Victory BP, you can build 1 Victory. Otherwise it is just a matter of cash and you can have a nerf army make an armada of 1st rates.

 

Seems like a swell idea.

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As anyone who has ever owned a big boat can tell you the big expense is not the up front cost of buying it, it is daily cost of maintaining it. But even crew expenses and maintenance expenses will just slow things down a bit.

 

If you really want to limit certain ships then make BPs single dura. You get a Victory BP, you can build 1 Victory. Otherwise it is just a matter of cash and you can have a nerf army make an armada of 1st rates.

 

I like it.  It could be tied in with the admiralty/reputation/crafting xp in some way.  It isn't everyday that a great ship is commissioned to be built. 

 

Single dura ship, single dura bp, crew cost, and maintenance upkeep cost.  Let 'em exist, but keep em rare as possible.  There should be a workhorse-like range of ships in this game and the higher rated ships shouldn't be the workhorses of the fleet.  Trophy and pride of the fleet, but don't let them become Jack Sparrow spam creations.

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As anyone who has ever owned a big boat can tell you the big expense is not the up front cost of buying it, it is daily cost of maintaining it. But even crew expenses and maintenance expenses will just slow things down a bit.

 

If you really want to limit certain ships then make BPs single dura. You get a Victory BP, you can build 1 Victory. Otherwise it is just a matter of cash and you can have a nerf army make an armada of 1st rates.

+1

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Actually, XP requirements were increased because they were artificially set low for testing purposes prior to EA. :)

 

You're missing the point Henry :)  I'm trying to say - nobody loves the grind (XP grind, money, you name it).  More of those added - more people get bored.  That's it :)

(and I'm not speaking about myself, I don't mind.  Just in case).

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what about matching the blueprint uses with ship durability?

So:

1st rate BP = 1 use

2nd rate BP = 2 uses

3rd rate BP = 3 uses

4th rate BP = 5 uses

5th rate BP = 5 uses

6th rate BP = 5 uses

7th rate BP = Unlimited use

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what about matching the blueprint uses with ship durability?

So:

1st rate BP = 1 use

2nd rate BP = 2 uses

3rd rate BP = 3 uses

4th rate BP = 5 uses

5th rate BP = 5 uses

6th rate BP = 5 uses

7th rate BP = Unlimited use

I would make it unlimited till 5th rates. But I think it is not going to happen. 

 

I would like to hear oppinion of the admin on this matter. Are the devs satisfied with the "rush for the Vicki", or they want to keep 1st rates and ships of the line more precious? It is nice they are adding beautifull ships like Ingermanland to the game, but they will see no action unless someone wants to feel special. :)

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The problem will not be solved by making ships more expensive. That is not enough. Did you all see Vicious's post about the xp and money he made in one of the Port Battles? He made 8000xp and over 900,000 in gold. So in one port battle he made enough money to build almost three first rates. You shouldn't be able to make in one PB enough to rebuild your sunk ship. At that point you might as just well give us ships for free.

what about matching the blueprint uses with ship durability?

So:

1st rate BP = 1 use

2nd rate BP = 2 uses

3rd rate BP = 3 uses

4th rate BP = 5 uses

5th rate BP = 5 uses

6th rate BP = 5 uses

7th rate BP = Unlimited use

I like this idea as a control of first rates but I would stop it at the third rate. The most basic ship of the line is the forth rate so let that blueprint be permanent knowledge.

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I would make it unlimited till 5th rates. But I think it is not going to happen. 

 

I would like to hear oppinion of the admin on this matter. Are the devs satisfied with the "rush for the Vicki", or they want to keep 1st rates and ships of the line more precious? It is nice they are adding beautifull ships like Ingermanland to the game, but they will see no action unless someone wants to feel special. :)

 

 

It is just my preference but I think the highest form of the game is the small (say 3v3) frigate engagement. It's very skill centric then, it's the best balance of sailing and gunnery (IMHO).

 

I find the massive 1st rate duels not very interesting. The ships don't really maneuver so it's just blasting away at stand off range.

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I would very much like to see limits on first rates in general, partly for a realistic "feel", but also because fights involving 25vs25 1st rates seems very unfun.

It could be interesting if different port battles would have different BR caps on them. That would require BR to really be a solid representation of the real ship strengths. If it was dynamically different for each battle, then no single setup would become the "winning formula".

I like suggestions I have seen regarding different draft depths for different ports as well. I think some real diversity could be possible in port battles and all ships would have a valuable place in the lineup.

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I agree 1st Rates should be rare and hard to come by, i was expecting to see a few around about this time... 3 months from public release... seeing 1st rates should be a uncommon. The recent changes to BP drop rate caused this to happen sooner too.

 

i mean im already seeing some battles like this which was from a few days ago on pvp1 

 

mSDvQE6.jpg

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