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Open letter to Game Labs regarding RNoN and DRUNK.


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The fact you managed to upset a whole nation in 5 days of gameplay makes me wonder if the nation is the problem or if you are not so good at verbaly handling situations my friend? Seems to me you only want to fight the danes, because it upsets the people who called you a spy and have put a bounty on your head.

So what in the end however?

I want to battle danes because I like history and I live in the region where Denmark and Sweden fought countless brutal battles for control. Ofcourse I want to sail a blue and yellow flag and sink ships with a red and white flag..?!

Edited by Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän
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People should not and could not care less if you go out and attack Danish ships playing the role of "Swedish privateers". But you should not expect any love for doing so and you certainly should not attack Danish ports and mess up the RvR game for the majority of your nation's citizenry using the "we just want to play the game" argument. Simple as that.

 

And this comes from a Dutch player that should be (ingame character) happy to see any internal conflicht within the Swedish nation.

The attack on the Danish port was launched after the attack on the Swedish port. It was a counter attack.

And I've already stated that I do not seek anyones love, agree or approval. All I seek is mutual respect. Nothing more, nothing less.

My TL;DR on the main post sums it up very very well to be honest. I don't believe that I'll become friends with everyone and that everyone will love me and share my thoughts. But I damn well believe that I am worth mutual respect, human beings alike.

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The fact you managed to upset a whole nation in 5 days of gameplay makes me wonder if the nation is the problem or if you are not so good at verbaly handling situations my friend? Seems to me you only want to fight the danes, because it upsets the people who called you a spy and have put a bounty on your head.

 

 

This is a Naval game. my ancestors where Naval officers and Swedish privateers, fighting the Danish.

The reason that I want to fight danish: They have Always been the sworn arche-enemy of Sweden (together with Russia).

To create a treathy with this country shouldnt be optional.

And theres many "real" Danes (norwegians) feeling the same about Sweden. Im not gonna let a bunch of German guys (pretending to be Swedish) stop us from doing this.

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This is the best summary of the situation I read so far...

No it's not, it's simply an accusation.

Hugo sir, you are correct in all your points except that the minority might not want to fight the enemies that have been chosen by others players. When EDR went with the rest of the French national and surrendered to the Danes and Dutch, I left the guild. I didn't see it as check mate yet and wanted to continue the fight. That being said I completely understood that many felt the situation may have risked a loss of player base.

I have since been in some great battles with the Danes that ended with respect passed back and forth.

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So what in the end however?

I want to battle danes because I like history and I live in the region where Denmark and Sweden fought countless brutal battles over. Ofcourse I want to sail a blue and yellow flag and sink ships with a red and white flag..?!

 

And here lies the problem. What is more important to the community of Naval Action? Your personal desire to attack a Danish ship flying Swedish colors or the desire of 600 other players to play the RvR game differently and fight Britain instead of Denmark? I would argue that it is MUCH easier for you to turn pirate and fight the Danes under the black than it is for 600 other players to stop doing what they doing just because it does not suit your personal desire....

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A very good and mature comment.

I did read it multiple times, actually trying to completely understand and analyze your thoughts and I feel safe to say that I truely understand your points.

However, I feel the need to say that regardless of the majority vote or not in some kind of council or vote, why would the players who are against have to follow the players who are for?

 

One thing that many in this thread has failed to realize is that DRUNK is a privateer clan of Sweden. We are supposed to be "Swedish pirates", because that is what a Swedish privateer is... Govermental pirate.

And who would they target? Ofcourse they would target the largest threats in a attempt to demoralize, damage and slow down the enemy or/and threat.

This is exactly what DRUNK is doing, so what is truely the problem? Yes, the Peace treaty.. but again.. this treaty is founded by a false authority, so it's not relevant at all really..?

 

I havent spoken to anyone of my fellow captains from DRUNK since the port battle last night so I might be going out of my League now, but I would happily sit down with anyone and discuss politics. We are privateers yes, but we have still done a lot of diplomacy with the ones who have shown us mutual respect, note that I said mutual because I'm tired of people twisting words, and even seized fire upon certain Clans to my understanding.

Note though, I am not a officer of DRUNK so I cannot make any calls on my own. But I would happily listen and take it up with my leaders. Anyone from americans to privates, from danes to spanish. Whoever wants to speak, I'll listen.

 

Edit: I'd also like to thank you. Why? "A very good and mature comment.". And you actually try to move forward in the discussion and perhaps solve something. That was my intentions for this thread.

 

OK let go, you want a right autority ? 10 devs, take 1 by nation and make them Kings, let them nominate 1 diplomate or governor in player base. Now you have one guy with the authority ! Will you follow him and the politic he'll draw for your nation ? Answer is simply NO, because you aren't playing as national and for a nation, but only as egocentric players unable to accept any authority. Stop hypocrisy mate.

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.(...)

 

One thing that many in this thread has failed to realize is that DRUNK is a privateer clan of Sweden. We are supposed to be "Swedish pirates", because that is what a Swedish privateer is... Govermental pirate.

And who would they target? Ofcourse they would target the largest threats in a attempt to demoralize, damage and slow down the enemy or/and threat.

This is exactly what DRUNK is doing, so what is truely the problem? Yes, the Peace treaty.. but again.. this treaty is founded by a false authority, so it's not relevant at all really..?

 

(...)

Yes exactly..you missed the "pirate" button when you created your character. And I think you miss a point by calling yourself privateer (a comfortable euphemism in a game where that options is not available). Privateers were buying letters of marque and actually worked as "private" units of war for the government DURING WARTIME against the enemy of the nation. Right now you are just hiding behind the Swedish flag....exploiting the "no green on green" and "no tag on OW"-game mechanics....that is..uhhhm,,,,no so mature? 

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And here lies the problem. What is more important to the community of Naval Action? Your personal desire to attack a Danish ship flying Swedish colors or the desire of 600 other players to play the RvR game differently and fight Britain instead of Denmark? I would argue that it is MUCH easier for you to turn pirate and fight the Danes under the black than it is for 600 other players to stop doing what they doing just because it does not suit your personal desire....

It might be the easier way to solve it, yes. But I don't seek to become a pirate nor does many members of DRUNK. We wish to be a Swedish Privateer Group.

Now, I don't know what type of diplomatic attempts have been made from Kungliga Flottans side (I keep writing Kungliga Flottan because they are the one with the most influence) to try and use us as a tool instead.

 

We have obviously done a very good job to damage, raid and pilage danish traders, fleets and gankers. To my understanding, I might be wrong however, there has been to attempts to ask us to do joint operations versus the targets who Kungliga Flottan see as valid ones. I would almost, note almost, happily run Privateer missions on behalf of Kungliga Flottan but I will not stop doing it to the threats that I see real because of that.

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And here lies the problem. What is more important to the community of Naval Action? Your personal desire to attack a Danish ship flying Swedish colors or the desire of 600 other players to play the RvR game differently and fight Britain instead of Denmark? I would argue that it is MUCH easier for you to turn pirate and fight the Danes under the black than it is for 600 other players to stop doing what they doing just because it does not suit your personal desire....

Even if the majority hates it, there is no reason to force them to go pirate because their actions are not against the rules. Swedes and Danes should go talk to each other and make a blacklist of swedish players which do not follow the majority so the Danish players know what to expect from this small privateer clan.

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OK let go, you want a right autority ? 10 devs, take 1 by nation and make them Kings, let them nominate 1 diplomate or governor in player base. Now you have one guy with the authority ! Will you follow him and the politic he'll draw for your nation ? Answer is simply NO, because you aren't playing as national and for a nation, but only as egocentric players unable to accept any authority. Stop hypocrisy mate.

I've stated it multiple times, if there is a official announcement that gives authority to one or multiple players or clans and that you are bound to follow them if you do not seek punishment, I will follow them.

But there is no authority like that for the time being, so why would I be obliged to follow them?

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Even if the majority hates it, there is no reason to force them to go pirate because their actions are not against the rules. Swedes and Danes should go talk to each other and make a blacklist of swedish players which do not follow the majority so the Danish players know what to expect from this small privateer clan.

+1.

Very good.

I wouldnt mind being branded as a privateer by Denmark and publicly known. Hell, it would actually just be good. In real life, the danish goverment would warn their fleets about known privateer fleets. Their whereabouts, their operations, size, goal.. Everything.

If the larger Swedish clans decide to sell this information and actually kinda become traitors themselves, so be it.

We are Swedish privateers, we will privateer in the name of Sweden.

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A very good and mature comment.

I did read it multiple times, actually trying to completely understand and analyze your thoughts and I feel safe to say that I truely understand your points.

However, I feel the need to say that regardless of the majority vote or not in some kind of council or vote, why would the players who are against have to follow the players who are for?

 

One thing that many in this thread has failed to realize is that DRUNK is a privateer clan of Sweden. We are supposed to be "Swedish pirates", because that is what a Swedish privateer is... Govermental pirate.

And who would they target? Ofcourse they would target the largest threats in a attempt to demoralize, damage and slow down the enemy or/and threat.

This is exactly what DRUNK is doing, so what is truely the problem? Yes, the Peace treaty.. but again.. this treaty is founded by a false authority, so it's not relevant at all really..?

 

I havent spoken to anyone of my fellow captains from DRUNK since the port battle last night so I might be going out of my League now, but I would happily sit down with anyone and discuss politics. We are privateers yes, but we have still done a lot of diplomacy with the ones who have shown us mutual respect, note that I said mutual because I'm tired of people twisting words, and even seized fire upon certain Clans to my understanding.

Note though, I am not a officer of DRUNK so I cannot make any calls on my own. But I would happily listen and take it up with my leaders. Anyone from americans to privates, from danes to spanish. Whoever wants to speak, I'll listen.

 

Edit: I'd also like to thank you. Why? "A very good and mature comment.". And you actually try to move forward in the discussion and perhaps solve something. That was my intentions for this thread.

 

 

When DRUNK plays Swedish privateers... GOVERNMENT pirates, as you call it, who is the current government of Sweden?

The Swedish High Council or the Clan-Leader of DRUNK?

Who is the biggest threat to Sweden currently? Denmark who is leaving us alone or the Dutch attacking our homewaters?

 

Your points are inconsistent with your actions. €: Thus, you are no more Swedish Privateers as you do not accept the Swedish authority of the majority. You are outlaws, rebels, traitors,... not privateers. In short: You are just pirates.

Edited by Thonar
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So what in the end however?

I want to battle danes because I like history and I live in the region where Denmark and Sweden fought countless brutal battles over. Ofcourse I want to sail a blue and yellow flag and sink ships with a red and white flag..?!

 

Well if nobody wants to give in, this will never get settled. And this will take until one of both sides gives up realy.

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When DRUNK plays Swedish privateers... GOVERNMENT pirates, as you call it, who is the current government of Sweden?

The Swedish High Council or the Clan-Leader of DRUNK?

Who is the biggest threat to Sweden currently? Denmark who is leaving us alone or the Dutch attacking our homewaters?

 

Your points are inconsistent with your actions. €: Thus, you are no more Swedish Privateers as you do not accept the Swedish authority of the majority. You are outlaws, rebels, traitors,... not privateers. In short: You are just pirates.

The Danes is a threat, regardless if you'd like to agree to it or not.

Regarding the Dutch, if my fleet sees a Dutch ship or fleet in Swedish waters, we will engage it. As simple as that.

 

Also, there is no goverment that we follow because there is none. As said, official statement and we will follow. Atleast I will.

I've said that we are a Swedish Privateer clan because we are Swedish and we are privateers, does that not make us Swedish privateers?

Well if nobody wants to give in, this will never get settled. And this will take until one of both sides gives up realy.

Well, I might be willing to give in. But I havent seen a single comment here offering us something in return.

It has to be a "give and take", not a "take". That's how diplomacy works, the very thing you guys preach.

Edited by Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän
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@Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän

Explanation what a Privateer is was explained above. You are no Privateers even if you claim that and repeat it over and over again. Better learn that lesson.

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@Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän

Explanation what a Privateer is was explained above. You are no Privateers even if you claim that and repeat it over and over again. Better learn that lesson.

If that explenation is to be considered valid because there is no real goverment, then you are not the royal navy either because there is no real king.

You seem to have failed to notice that this thread was made to try and solve things, not throw shit at eachother. Want to help me solve it or continue to fight on the forums and in the global chatt?

Your move.

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All you guys claiming to be the swedish government are so arrogant. there is no such game mechanic. you are captains in the swedish navy at best and who knows what the Devs think the government will look like. it is not the captains of a navy that decide national policy. if they think they are privateers fighting in the best interest of the nation (and by fighting against your conquereor who can say they are not fighting in the interest of the nation?) then you cannot say they are not correct.

 

Conquered puppet states always brand the loyalist rebels as traitors in real life, its a shame that continues in this game. Perhaps if there was a real government of sweden in this game, they would consider DRUNK as the only true loyal force left? it would be very logical if that was the case. until the devs show us what the formal diplomacy will look like, this is all just arrogance and self appointed titles.

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This post is an example why in game alliances could have problems.

 

I was thinking alliances could be "opt in" -- they do not automatically apply to the whole team.

 

Example (using made up numbers)

Swedes prime time is typically 100 players.

French prime time is typically 200 players.

The main guilds want to create an alliance.

 

A treaty is created. It appears in both capitals. "The undersigned agree to a peace treaty between Sweden and France."

 

In order to come into effect, the treaty requires 50% of the prime time population to sign it, so Sweden needs 50 signatures and France needs 100 signatures and then the treaty goes into effect only for the people who signed it.

 

Late-comers can sign the treaty at any time. People on the treaty can remove their name from it. They can only do this at the capitals.

 

If you are not signed, it does not apply to you. Unsigned French see all Swedes as enemies and vice versa.

If you are signed, it does apply to you. Signed French see all signed Swedes as friendlies and vice versa.

Signed French still see unsigned Swedes as enemies -- the treaty only applies when both people are on it.

 

If there is a Sweden vs France battles, unsigned people can only join their team. Signed people can join either team. This gives a way for treaties to be enforced by their own team -- basically players can police themselves. If we don't want your guild fighting the Swedes, we can follow you around and reinforce Sweden when you attack them. We can also join their side in port battles against you.

 

 

Once a treaty falls below half the number of signatures required to originally make it, the treaty is canceled.

 

 

If War & Peace is not "opt in", I think it needs to be "NPC driven".

 

If it's forced and player-driven, I think there will be a lot of issues.

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Your arguments are ridiculous. You claim the right to play the game as you see fit - and at the same time you deny the majority of the citizens of Swedish nation the same right. Because these citizens DID elect a government of some sorts, they DID elect leaders that represent the majority of the Swedish playerbase. Otherwise, people would have left KF and HRE in large numbers already. By not accepting this elected government you are effectively not accepting the right of other players to play the game as THEY see fit. And there is more of them than there is of you. So who is the bad guy here?

 

So, stop the hypocrisy. I rest my case.

Edited by Hugo van Grojt
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This thread just showing there is no hope. Some players will always claim YOU have no authority, YOU are not my master, I'M playing as i want because i have buy the game like you... Sorry guys. Even if devs give the power to be governor to some players/ clans these kind of ppl will break all the work you'll try to make. Some guys don't want make a lone concession and make what they want at no cost...

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This thread just showing there is no hope. Some players will always claim YOU have no authority, YOU are not my master, I'M playing as i want because i have buy the game like you... Sorry guys. Even if devs give the power to be governor to some players/ clans these kind of ppl will break all the work you'll try to make. Some guys don't want make a lone concession and make what they want at no cost...

 

To be honest, the guy is right. There is absolutely nothing binding him to follow what the mob rule, excuse me, "majority" rule decides. It's his game to play as he wants, and unless all Danes show as friendly or allied  to him in game and he will go pirate by attacking him, there is no reason he can't sink, burn or take prize Danish ships.

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I was thinking alliances could be "opt in" -- they do not automatically apply to the whole team.

Example (using made up numbers)

Swedes prime time is typically 100 players.

French prime time is typically 200 players.

The main guilds want to create an alliance.

A treaty is created. It appears in both capitals. "The undersigned agree to a peace treaty between Sweden and France."

In order to come into effect, the treaty requires 50% of the prime time population to sign it, so Sweden needs 50 signatures and France needs 100 signatures and then the treaty goes into effect only for the people who signed it.

Late-comers can sign the treaty at any time. People on the treaty can remove their name from it. They can only do this at the capitals.

If you are not signed, it does not apply to you. Unsigned French see all Swedes as enemies and vice versa.

If you are signed, it does apply to you. Signed French see all signed Swedes as friendlies and vice versa.

Signed French still see unsigned Swedes as enemies -- the treaty only applies when both people are on it.

If there is a Sweden vs France battles, unsigned people can only join their team. Signed people can join either team. This gives a way for treaties to be enforced by their own team -- basically players can police themselves. If we don't want your guild fighting the Swedes, we can follow you around and reinforce Sweden when you attack them. We can also join their side in port battles against you.

Once a treaty falls below half the number of signatures required to originally make it, the treaty is canceled.

If War & Peace is not "opt in", I think it needs to be "NPC driven".

If it's forced and player-driven, I think there will be a lot of issues.

This. This right here.

Seriously buddy, what is your real life adress? I swear to god, I'll send you a chocolate chip cookie.

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To be honest, the guy is right. There is absolutely nothing binding him to follow what the mob rule, excuse me, "majority" rule decides. It's his game to play as he wants, and unless all Danes show as friendly or allied  to him in game and he will go pirate by attacking him, there is no reason he can't sink, burn or take prize Danish ships.

 

Well, to make a totaly unrelated comparison to a totaly different and unrelated game, you play a game of CS. You have the bomb, the whole squad goes to A but you want to go B so you go B alone. You might get what you want, but in the end you'll probably get killed and your team loses the round. There is no diplomac rules in this game, nobody can force you to do anything. But if a team can't all agree on one strategy, that team is prety much doomed to fail at some point. Sit together figure something out all clans can work with, and have fun...

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tbh i didn't read half of the pages in this tread but unless its been said before me, Might i remind all of you that until a Proper Diplomacy system is implemented by the Devs EVERY SINGLE FACTION IS AT WAR WITH EACH OTHER, so for Drunk or RNoN, or FTS, Or some new Clan of that nation or this nation or whatever attacks another nation you should not go to the forums bitching about it, seriously grow a set and man up, it should be in your treaty like it was with ours with our truce deal with the states, that Stars where not included in it and if any attacks happened it did not EFFECT THE DEAL that was made, we were also allowed to take any ports back if some were lost. At the time and present time, the british nation seems unified due to the multiple wars we currently have, but it was also in the deal that if a british clan attacked the states as long as no one from x clan's were there everything was good.

 

Seriously i'm sure your deal would have the same kind of clauses especially considering Drunk was around and was known to disagree with the deal, at the time they were small but now they've grown and are able to take ports, so what Danes just have to defend them, or take them back the following day, as long as no other swedish clans take part i don't see the big deal. Same goes for those Danish attacks by RNON, KF just needs to defend them, or Drunk does, or the Swedish Puppies do, or just retake them and the Danes just have to make sure that no clans that agreed goes to defend/attack the ports in question.

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What is being discussed here is how to measure the power of one player over the other.

 

As a GAME is not a political system we must have more imagination with the help of the devs.

 

Please guys, stop trying to force your laws.

 

It would be the same as forbidding me to talk to the enemy nation players... it is ridiculous. ( yes it happened but you know me, f... that )

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