Captain Underpants Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 He's a good egg this one (Sju) but the internet and these forums are clearly no place for decent, reasonable people (or so my clan keep telling me!)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 3. you accept that these clan leaders speak on your behalf during RvR negotiations or national council meetings - for lack of a better system. If you do not agree with your leadership, you are free to leave the clan or join another one that suits your interests better - and many people actually do that if they are discontent with their LEADERSHIP . OR MAKE YOUR OWN CLAN OF LIKE MINDED INDIVIDUALS 5. you want to participate in the RvR aspect of the game (national wars) - this is the ONLY part of the game where you are limited. If you absolutely want to wage war against the Danish/Swedish, you actually need to convince the majority of players playing the RvR game that this is the right way to go by increasing your clan member numbers or gaining support from other clans. CONCENSUS IS NOT REQUIRED. So, by using some logic, we have established that majority decisions concerning national wars DO NOT prevent players from playing the game as they want. Even if the majority of citizens of a nation agree on having peace between Denmark and Sweden, the players of DRUNK and other small clans still have PLENTY of opportunities to trade, PVE, small scale PvP, do port battles to their hearts' content . The only limit that DRUNK have, is that they should not attack ports that belong to the Danish nation. That is the only limitation of their gameplay experience. THERE IS NO LIMITATION EXCEPT THEIR ABILITY TO TAKE ACTION (CLAN SIZE) We'll thought out logic. Herein is the flaw in your logic: that consensus is required. It might be "desired", yes. It is conceivable that a single group of like minded individuals can become the majority. As there are no game mechanics to do so, there is no limitations on Drunk's ability to RVR, EXCEPT for the number of like minded individuals they have. If they're a clan of 5, taking a port is probably impossible. If they're a clan of 18, taking the port is possible, but holding it is unlikely. If they are a clan of 36, 50, 75,150... Do I need to list all the permutations? I'll end on this note as it is key to your well thought out argument: There is no limitations to their desire to RVR. Consensus with the "popular majority" is not required. Their only limitation is the size of their group and ability to take action. You've self imposed your belief that minority group must abide by player made councils. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) He's a good egg this one (Sju) but the internet and these forums are clearly no place for decent, reasonable people (or so my clan keep telling me!)... Speaking of egg.. Might be quuuiiiiiiite off-topic but hey... I got a job today! In a egg factory! Egg factory.. Egg farm....Chicken farm...... Chicken factory.......... .... .... .... A place that have chickens laying eggs, then sells the eggs. Edited March 30, 2016 by Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Underpants Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Lol - grats mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Lol - grats mate! Thanks. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knallkorp Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) As said, any player who sails under the swedish flag should be allowed to join a port battle that RNON starts. If you believe that you cannot defend ports from one Danish-Norweigan clan, I must sadly question your choise of playing on a PvP server and on the hardest faction. No offence. I doubt that we will have people to defend the ports they attack. Currently the major clans and other people not in those clans are fighting in the south and i want to keep it that way. The neutral status with the danes were made after black friday when they showed us we couldnt defend ouer ports with the amount of people we had at that time. This status helped to prevent people from leaving the swedish nation, giving new players a chance to play under the swedish nation (not go against 10-20 danes right outside gustavia in a cutter), bringing almost all small clans together and get organtized (KF) and getting back an economy without ridiculous prices. The major clans set a goal to attack the dutch because of they were provoking us by sailing in ouer waters when we were fighting the pirates. The French wasnt an option because of the previous alliance and now the neutral status, i like the french we could sail in their waters without getting attacked and they could sail in ouers, they helped us against the danes i will never forget that. To attack the danes would end up in another black friday at that moment, and it would violate our word. The Neutral status set up by the major clans benfitted both nation, we got whats stated above and was available to set a goal and the danes could focus on their eastern front. Without this status the swedish population would be next to nothing and the danes would be bored as hell by camping outside gustavia. With this said the major clans wanna put their focus in the south but if RNON is gonna attack swedish ports in the north and starts capping ports ouer new players gonna suffer and the economy, then we gonna have to go up and put some effort up in the north to cap them back basically no gain. Edited March 30, 2016 by Knallkorp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenSloth Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) But all you can do is capture undefended ports and gank some traders or lone players. When it is time for a real fight you aren't there. Never seen DRUNK players anywhere near actual PBs and OW battles in the south. Never seen them attack any actually defended port. And IF Danes decided to attack Sweden DRUNK will be able to do just NOTHING - all defence will be done by HRE and KF, cause they are actually good and experienced in RVR. So, why not stop this pretense of fighting for Sweden, when actually you are waging some private war with lone traders? Just reroll as a pirate, and continue to gank Danes, but without all this pretense. Why put simple acts of piracy under some mask of "glorious fight for Sweden". Maybe that's the problem why no one is taking you seriously. Stop pretending to be some glorious fighters (when the only thing you are good at is ganking in speed fit Renommes) and start being what you actually are - just a bunch of pirates that dislike Danes.. I think the fact you inserted "Blah, blah, blah" in front of my original post proves how invalid your argument is. Our records show DRUNK has been extremely successful in achieving our goals, and although we can't muster a large PB fleet yet one day we will. Take a look at my DRUNK battles thread for proof we win even battles too, not just "gank lone players" Edited March 30, 2016 by DrunkenSloth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 It isn't only KF and HRE... there are a lot more clans within the council, that is in itself based on a democratic principle. Which means, under the impression that the random players are splitted up on this topic, means the majority of organized players is on the side of the council. The majority. So your whole basis of argument is actually invalid, except you want to defend griefing. PS: It is also interesting that you base the ideas of DRUNK regarding Denmark on nationalistic ideas. Pure speculation you have no way of knowing how much of the population is in you clan as a % nor do you have a way of demonstrating that a democratic principle was followed. There is always a very silent majority of players that are non aligned or not in clans in these games, they remain quite invisible until official statistics demonstrate the breakdown of players and even if they did, there is no game mechanic or rule that requires players or clans to conform with other peoples conception of how the game should be played. If a player plays the game within the game mechanics and ruleset there is simply NOTHING that another player can complain about. Furthermore, if members of DRUNK or RNON or individuals have text chat evidence of abuse directed towards them they should submit it to the admins and mods. This sort of behaviour is at very least worth game based punishment, and at its worst is illegal in many RL nations laws as online bullying and should be treated very seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloothommel Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Funny.... War/peace mechanics has more votes than the other 4 options combined.... http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12471-development-priorities-2/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 What is everyone going to do when they actually go back to war with the Danes!? Lol Ohhhh noooooez. You'll have to work together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Furthermore, if members of DRUNK or RNON or individuals have text chat evidence of abuse directed towards them they should submit it to the admins and mods. This sort of behaviour is at very least worth game based punishment, and at its worst is illegal in many RL nations laws as online bullying and should be treated very seriously. Already doing that buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenSloth Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Funny.... War/peace mechanics has more votes than the other 4 options combined.... http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12471-development-priorities-2/ So I guess you know how the devs will implement it? Please let me in on the insider information.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xhepnon Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 even tldr was long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) even tldr was long. :< I tried, okay? Edited March 31, 2016 by Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Quertier Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 You don't know what your'e talking about. I've sailed alot with DrunkenSloth. That was when he was a member of 13th, before he he went rogue. You can say alot about him but the guy has balls. He saved my ass more than once. I've built ships for him and so on. The problem I have is their attitude in the nation chat and on the forum where they (not Sloth) spreads desinformation in the swedish ranks, trashtalking KF and HRE. I would LOVE to take them under my wing again. We could surely use a bunch of reckless lunetics in the war against the dutch. But they are hellbent on stiring up tention with the danes. ...for some reason. You say I don't know what I'm talking about sir. Partly true, I was arguing against the notion that DRUNK simply attack lone traders and the like, I've worked with them over the last couple of weeks and can't say I've seen them tag a single trader, not saying they haven't mind. I understand that there are things that gone on on Swedish nation chat. I obviously can't comment on that because I don't have access to it, being of the French nation. I was simply trying to work at some way of reconciliation between DRUNK and the rest of the Swedish guys because in my opinion I think the two could work very well together if done in the right way. You backed that up yourself with your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thonar Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) :/ Mhm. I am, and I actually recently got promoted to officer within DRUNK so I can actually speak on behalf of the clan now if there is any good ideas and comments here. I'd say that it's quite easily solved truth be told. We have these two, if I quote, "rogue" clans in Sweden and Denmark-Norway. Let us do whatever we desire and exclude us from the peace treaty. Allow any danes to target members of DRUNK as they desire and let any swedes target members of RNON as they desire. Let us take any ports from eachother as we desire. If a conquest flag is bought by a member of DRUNK, any KF and HRE member joining gets a "free-pass" for that one battle, as anyone should be allowed to join if the battle already is going to happen. Same with RNON, if they buy a flag, let any danes join it without punishment due to the peace treaty. This way, the major clans of Denmark-Norway and Sweden can continue to be friendly, neutral, whatever they are with eachother and focus on the enemies they see valid and we in clans such as DRUNK and RNON can continue to do what we desire and enjoy. The peace treaty will still keep 99% of the swedish players in peace with Denmark-Norway and vice versa with the danish players with Sweden. It will only exclude Sweden. So, if this was to be agreed upon, all leaders and officers in all clans MUST uphold a good tone in the forums and global chatt. This means, if I write "I've captured a danish player trader" in the swedish global chatt (I don't know why I would, but it's just a example really..) no one is allowed to say "OMG WHY" or "FUCKING RESPECT THE TREATY" or "DRUNK GOES TROLLING AGAIN" or "GO TO PIRATES DRUNK". We'd do our stuff in "peace", and the clans behind the treaty would do their stuff in peace, litterary. Not too bad of a suggestion, is it? There is just one big problem with this: Ressources and Crafting. As soon as DRUNK attacks a port with vital Danish ressources that Sweden might not even need, there is a chance that War with Denmark escalates not only between DRUNK and Denmark but between the whole communities. The result is rather obvious: DRUNK got their way and destroyed what others build up (not necessarily by purpose but in the end). This is not a compromise. You realize there was an outspoken compromise? DRUNK can do as they please, except for buying flags against Nations Sweden is not at war with. This way the diplomacy (and with it an achievement of a huge part of the community) is not in threat by an maybe unthoughtful action. The solution I propose is the following: DRUNK as a privateer clan accepts that the council is the diplomatic organization of Sweden and accepts their diplomatic decisions as such but they are free to act against them as much as they want with the only exception of buying flags (as this is part of the diplomacy) and helping nations in actions against Sweden that Sweden is at war with. DRUNK is expecteded to communicate its role accordingly (so no own diplomacy of single Clans). Drunk can offer its services and fight with whomever it wants to, except for buying flags. They stop calling other people traitors or whatever just because of diplomatic decisions, but their actions are not seen as a threat to Sweden (except for buying flags). DRUNK members are welcome to join any PB but are, as everyone, expected to join the Council Teamspeak to enable a central command for the PB. The defense of the Homewaters (the current Northern harbors under Swedish control) is done together and a close cooperation is expected by both sides. DRUNK is free to join the council as an equal member anytime as soon as they lay down their privateering actions. In the end: Drunk can still do as they please except for buying flags and making their own diplomacy as this is within the role of the council. You are free on the other hand to blockade any harbor you want, attack every player you want and you are unbound by any diplomatic decision of the council. This is a compromise, I think both sides can live with because it doesn't change the status quo. Goal is that no clan is doing diplomacy for the whole of Sweden on its own. Neither is doing KF, nor HRE, nor KSKGE... the council is making the diplomacy and every clan is free to join it or to go the way of DRUNK. Edited March 31, 2016 by Thonar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Yes, it's quite sad that when peace mechanics come they will cry so hard... At least they will have eachothers shoulders to cry on... Oh yes lets wait for it, and see how AI fleet farmer then start to cry too because AI fleets then also part of the Peace. Or do you really think they will be excluded of 2 nations are making a peace via a diplomacy mechanic? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musuko42 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 As I've said before; the people who are making the peace deals are the ones who are not playing the game properly, as the current state of the game is that all factions are at war with each-other. You can't moan about clans who are playing the game correctly; fighting the enemy. Until there is a peace mechanic built into the game, you don't have a leg to stand on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 There is just one big problem with this: Ressources and Crafting. As soon as DRUNK attacks a port with vital Danish ressources that Sweden might not even need, there is a chance that War with Denmark escalates not only between DRUNK and Denmark but between the whole communities. The result is rather obvious: DRUNK got their way and destroyed what others build up (not necessarily by purpose but in the end). This is not a compromise. You realize there was an outspoken compromise? DRUNK can do as they please, except for buying flags against Nations Sweden is not at war with. This way the diplomacy (and with it an achievement of a huge part of the community) is not in threat by an maybe unthoughtful action. The solution I propose is the following: DRUNK as a privateer clan accepts that the council is the diplomatic organization of Sweden and accepts their diplomatic decisions as such but they are free to act against them as much as they want with the only exception of buying flags (as this is part of the diplomacy) and helping nations in actions against Sweden that Sweden is at war with. DRUNK is expecteded to communicate its role accordingly (so no own diplomacy of single Clans). Drunk can offer its services and fight with whomever it wants to, except for buying flags. They stop calling other people traitors or whatever just because of diplomatic decisions, but their actions are not seen as a threat to Sweden (except for buying flags). DRUNK members are welcome to join any PB but are, as everyone, expected to join the Council Teamspeak to enable a central command for the PB. The defense of the Homewaters (the current Northern harbors under Swedish control) is done together and a close cooperation is expected by both sides. DRUNK is free to join the council as an equal member anytime as soon as they lay down their privateering actions. In the end: Drunk can still do as they please except for buying flags and making their own diplomacy as this is within the role of the council. You are free on the other hand to blockade any harbor you want, attack every player you want and you are unbound by any diplomatic decision of the council. This is a compromise, I think both sides can live with because it doesn't change the status quo. Goal is that no clan is doing diplomacy for the whole of Sweden on its own. Neither is doing KF, nor HRE, nor KSKGE... the council is making the diplomacy and every clan is free to join it or to go the way of DRUNK. +1There is nothing more to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knallkorp Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 As I've said before; the people who are making the peace deals are the ones who are not playing the game properly, as the current state of the game is that all factions are at war with each-other. You can't moan about clans who are playing the game correctly; fighting the enemy. Until there is a peace mechanic built into the game, you don't have a leg to stand on. Read my last post abit of history and i do not want it to happen again. You are correct about the current gameplay but all the other nations are doing diplomacy why shouldnt we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furyGer Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I heard from clan mates that drunk are allies of a Danish clan and they don't attack each other. Is it right and what are the same targets you have? I wonder because I never thought that's possible. They attack Swedish players and you leave battles.....? Hmmmmmmm can't believe that. Greetings Fury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennytall Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) As a frenchman, i love that DRUNK are playing the way they do. Unexpected PVP and open sea skirmishes are always the funniest. The game is boring if no one is playing as privateer, attacking on sight. Edited March 31, 2016 by Jennytall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dala Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 As a frenchman, i love that DRUNK are playing the way they do. Unexpected PVP and open sea skirmishes are always the funniest. The game is boring if no one is playing as privateer, attacking on sight. becuse u are one urself? I remember ur name from somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 becuse u are one urself? I remember ur name from somewhere He's an LMO member, that's why he likes Drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musuko42 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 You are correct about the current gameplay but all the other nations are doing diplomacy why shouldnt we? Because they/you don't have to if they don't want to, and the people who try to pressure them into doing it are the ones in the wrong. Nobody gets to dictate how anyone else chooses to play their game, provided they're within the rules (which these people are). And it really baffles me that some people are too wrapped up in their Napoleon complexes to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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