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Open letter to Game Labs regarding RNoN and DRUNK.


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Hail Game Labs, and everyone else reading this open letter.

Introduction:
I'll start of by talking a little about myself and explain the reason for this open letter. I'm a former notorious healer for one of the largest Rated Battleground and World Player versus Player guilds in the game World of Warcraft. I feel safe to say that most of you don't know about the gigantic drama and hostility within the World PvP community in WoW, and I was a very active person in trying to settle things down and make the community into something better. To give you a basic understanding of the seriousness, there was multiple cross-nation police cases regarding threaths, stalking and even real life assault, because of most leaders and officers of the larger and some of the smaller guilds.
I am now writing a open letter here regarding RNoN and DRUNK because eventhough the PvP community on EU PvP One isnt remotely close to what the World PvP community in World of Warcraft is, I still feel the need to try and calm things down.

The letter itself:
I bought this game not long ago after seeing some YouTube footage. The footage contained a french fleet of 20 ships battling another fleet, a british one with 20 ships aswell. I bought the game, installed it, took of my pants and shirt, filled my bottle of water, locked my door and sat down. I quickly realized I could be flying the swedish flag and as a swedish citizen and former history student, I instantly selected Sweden. Now, I live in the very southern region of Sweden called Scania, and it's right next to Denmark. This ofcourse means that I, once again former history student, got a urge to sink danish ships. I selected EU PvP One. EU PvP One, EU PvP One, PvP.

Only a week or two after I got the game, there was a decleration made between Sweden and Denmark-Norway. This decleration was made by the "authority" of two clans on each side. Kungliga Flottan (KF) and Holy Roman Empire (HRE) were the ones who spoke on behalf of Sweden in this matter. Now I am a member of the, if I may say, known clan DRUNK. The clan was, to my understanding, created because of this exact decleration and because of the fact that I did not want to follow the decleration and keep sinking danish ships, I joined them. Why? It was the only swedish privateer clan and still is, and privateering under a swedish flag is what I desire to do.

So what we have is two large clans in Sweden who claims to have full authority and control over the faction, without ties to the game developers nor any official statements from the game developers granting them this authority. However, Kungliga Flottan (KF) believes they have the power to lable DRUNK as traitors here, on the official forums, and make a tirbunal request to force move DRUNK to the nation of pirates. I have to strongly question these actions and ask the game developers if this really is what they want? Allowing certain clans to enforce, atleast attempt to, authority and rule a faction without your approval, allowing them to report and demand things simply because they do not agree with the thoughts of others, eventhough these "others" havent done a single thing wrong nor broken any rule in the game?

Every day I see people trash talk DRUNK on a quite severe level simply because they don't believe in our ideas and thoughts of how things should be. I've never uttered a single bad word towards anyone, on the other hand I've tried my very best to be humble and polite in every discussion I've been in, yet I've been called almost everything between heaven and hell already with only few weeks worth of playtime. This is once again something I have to question, if the game developers agrees to their ways of expressing themselves about DRUNK in the global swedish chatt?
One quick note is that I havent personally seen any member of DRUNK verbally abusing anyone else, however I am aware that one member recently had a chatt restriction. So to answer a question before it even comes; No, I do not deny that other members of DRUNK may or may not have been verbaly abusive themselves.

I'd like to round of by quoting two parts of the thread where DRUNK got labled as traitors by Kungliga Flottan (KF).

"it has come to my attention that a Rogue naval unit of the Swedish Navy has broken my explicit orders to respect our signed cease fire with the Danish Nation, by attacking and capturing completely undefended Danish Harbours."
- King Gustavus Adolphus, 10.27 PM 28'th of March 2016 (Original Post in "DRUNK - Accused of Treason")

"Exactly, DRUNK should show their true colors and raise the flag of their master rather than fielding a flag which they do not have the best intentions for." - Zehtuka, 10.42 PM 28'th of March 2016 (Comment in "DRUNK - Accused of Treason")

So once again, "King" Gustavus Adolphus claims to have full authority over the faction and command any player within it to do as he please. As said before, without any official statement that gives them this authority that they believe they have.

Zehtuka also strongly gives his thoughts about their authority by labling themselves as the "masters" of Sweden. I do not believe that I have to express my thoughts about this at alll as it's very obvious.

I'd like to round up by mentioning a few more things.
As the player Jordun bought and placed the flag to attack Fort Baai (Danish-Norweigan port) the swedish global chatt got spammed for a good 45 minutes, if not more, untill a game moderator by the name of Tomms came in and stated that verbal abuse was not going to be accepted. I'd like to personally thank you Tomms for taking this mans side and defending him from the enormus hate that he recieved.
I'd also like to point out the irony that the leader of the main Danish-Norweigan clan, Herminator, was seen in the attack they launched versus Oranje (I believe it was Oranje atleast). His pressence was even called out by the moderator Mirones that also happily redecorated his cabin. This battle started before DRUNK launched their attack, so my question is.. Who did truely break the treaty when it comes to clans? Jordun was a apparently clan less, that could have been solved by diplomacy easily, but Herminator still made the call to engage a Swedish port?

Lastly, I'd like to ask everyone who reads this and thinks about commenting to please follow the rules and guide lines of this forum. I really shouldnt have to ask everyone to do so but I believe this open letter might stirr some emotions and we all say things we shouldnt when we're upset.

TL;DR:
You don't have to agree with us.
You don't have to help us.
You don't have to like us.
You don't have to talk with or about us.
But you do have to respect us.
Not because we're players.
Not because we're a clan.
Not because we're flying the swedish flag.
Not because we're playing Naval Action.
Because we are people, just like you.
Untill the day that I see a official thread made that states the full or even partial authority of one or multiple clans over Sweden as a faction, I will not even hear your "orders".

Yours truely,
Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän, Privateer of Sweden (DRUNK).

 

To the community:

In this thread I adress the problems I encounter as a member of DRUNK, as a privateer of the swedish fleet and Sweden. If I intended to cause drama with this post, I'd write a topic that I would lable as a "shitpost" and throw shit in every single direction I could. But I didn't. 

I made this post in the hopes that a new fresh face expressing his thoughts and feelings perhaps could make a change, perhaps could make us all in Sweden and maybe even players from other nations sit down in this thread and talk.

Talk as in discuss in a calm, mature and positive way with the goal to achieve a change for a better community.

There has been multiple good comments, some I agree with and some I disagree with but that's human nature. We cannot all agree with the same thing. I honestly don't know why I'm writing this new paragraph, what I am to say with it.. I guess it's simply a cry to everyone to please set everything aside and help eachother.

We're supposed to be the most evolved animal on this planet, can we please act like it?

Edited by Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän
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It isn't only KF and HRE... there are a lot more clans within the council, that is in itself based on a democratic principle.

Which means, under the impression that the random players are splitted up on this topic, means the majority of organized players is on the side of the council. The majority.

So your whole basis of argument is actually invalid, except you want to defend griefing.

PS: It is also interesting that you base the ideas of DRUNK regarding Denmark on nationalistic ideas.

Edited by Thonar
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It isn't only KF and HRE... there are a lot more clans within the council, that is in itself based on a democratic principle.

Which means, under the impression that the random players are splitted up on this topic, means the majority of organized players is on the side of the council. The majority.

So your whole basis of argument is actually invalid, except you want to defend griefing.

Griefing? Please do explain because I fail to see how DRUNK is griefing. As stated multiple times, Kungliga Flottan has no real official authority to command and brand clans and/or players. Yet this is done and as you do not get things your way, you feel the need to try and make the game developers to force move your "problem", this "griefing" clan and players, to another faction when they havent done anything wrong? Even mods on the forums have already stated that you do not have any authority and it was moved from the tribunal because of the face that Kungliga Flottan is in the wrong.

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Again you fail to see that it isn't only KF. Until you understand this fact there is no need to argue further.

Regarding Griefing:

Players of all nations put up a lot of work to enable an improvised diplomacy system. RNoN and DRUNK are trying tk destroy exactly this system on purpose. You might not break rules but you are destroying the fun an work of other players on purpose. Thus you are griefing.

Edited by Thonar
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PS: It is also interesting that you base the ideas of DRUNK regarding Denmark on nationalistic ideas.

Nationalistic? I believe you missed out on the two parts where I stated that I've studied history.

Denmark and Sweden has almost been in more wars with eachother than I can count, both on land and the sea.

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Hail Game Labs, and everyone else reading this open letter. 

 

Introduction:

I'll start of by talking a little about myself and explain the reason for this open letter. I'm a former notorious healer for one of the largest Rated Battleground and World Player versus Player guilds in the game World of Warcraft. I feel safe to say that most of you don't know about the gigantic drama and hostility within the World PvP community in WoW, and I was a very active person in trying to settle things down and make the community into something better. To give you a basic understanding of the seriousness, there was multiple cross-nation police cases regarding threaths, stalking and even real life assault, because of most leaders and officers of the larger and some of the smaller guilds.

Over a completely loss free PVP game?

incredible.

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Nationalistic? I believe you missed out on the two parts where I stated that I've studied history.

Denmark and Sweden has almost been in more wars with eachother than I can count, both on land and the sea.

And? Does this mean we have to fight in this game? No.

Do you want to rewrite history?

And why is it importang that you are from Scania? Nobody cares, except you as it seems. What has your local heritage to do with Denmark?

Edited by Thonar
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Again you fail to see that it isn't only KF. Until you understand this fact there is no need to argue further.

Regarding Griefing:

Players of all nations put up a lot of work to enable an improvised diplomacy system. RNoN and DRUNK are trying tk destroy exactly this system on purpose. You might not break rules but you are destroying the fun an work of other players on purpose. Thus you are griefing.

Though, griefing always fall down under a rule being broken.

And I am aware that Kungliga Flottan isnt the only clan, but it is the clan that has the most self given authority. It is also the clan who I see is, I don't want to say problem because they aint that.. They hold most of the players who I see as unsportman like and unable to see and respect the free will and thoughts of others.

You don't have to agree with us.

You don't have to help us.

You don't have to like us.

You don't have to talk with or about us.

But you do have to respect us.

Not because we're players.

Not because we're a clan.

Not because we're flying the swedish flag.

Not because we're playing Naval Action.

Because we are people, just like you.

Untill the day that I see a official thread made that states the full authority of one or multiple clans, I will not hear your "orders".

So yes, I fully agree with you.

Untill you understand this fact there is no need to argue further.

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Over a completely loss free PVP game?

incredible.

I can picture that conversation in prison.

"So what are you in for?"

"I killed a man."

"Oh yeah, what for?"

"He stabbed my level 10 necro fairy and stole my magical purple sword.  I tried to reroll pally and channel the divine wrath, but the underhanded bastard countered with his magic missile.  I knew then I couldn't let him keep up such atrocity, so to save the golden land of the fairy princess from the ravages of the orcs, I did the only thing I could.  I tracked him down and beat him to death with a tire iron.  You understand, right?"

"Yeah..."

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On the actual topic - are KNON and Drunk actually strong enough to capture defend ports? And if Fort Baai was not defended and they took it by default, which happens all the time in this game anyways, are they strong enough to hold it against the inevitable counter attack?

 

If the answer is yes, yet they are the minority, one has to wonder what the majority is up to. Because in that case Sweden would be a remarkably strong nation. Or you've given too much voting power to minor clans that just tag along when PVP happens and shouldn't be making calls in the first place.

 

 

As for Herminator, trusting that guy has always been a mistake. Remember how he openly threatened the Dutch with all out war if they were to refuse his orders on this forum. After a month of close alliance. Some friend he is.

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It's simple: when different players from different clans cooperate and make collective decisions, and then someone shows up and tries hard to ruin what they've done, you just don't expect friendly attitude towards this individual (or a group of individuals). Do I personally respect your right to play as you like? Of course I do. Does it mean that I have to respect/support what one's doing and what he is? Of course not.

I don't support any kind of arguing, insults, flaming, people need to keep it calm and polite. But regarding the overall reaction to some actions, seriously, do you expect to make friends with everyone like this? I guess not. 

Besides, isn't it the role your clan has picked? Just keep playing it then.

Edited by Jebediah Kerman
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I can picture that conversation in prison.

"So what are you in for?"

"I killed a man."

"Oh yeah, what for?"

"He stabbed my level 10 necro fairy and stole my magical purple sword.  I tried to reroll pally and channel the divine wrath, but the underhanded bastard countered with his magic missile.  I knew then I couldn't let him keep up such atrocity, so to save the golden land of the fairy princess from the ravages of the orcs, I did the only thing I could.  I tracked him down and beat him to death with a tire iron.  You understand, right?"

"Yeah..."

 

WoW PVP is completely loss free. So it would actually be "he stabbed my level 10 necro and I had to run back from the graveyard as a ghost, which cost me a total of two minutes of leveling time!"

No item loot. WoW PVP is true carebear.

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Over a completely loss free PVP game?

incredible.

World of Warcraft, free..?

I'm sorry but I believe you've mixed things up. World of Warcraft costs about £6 for the vanilla game, then it's ranging from £10 to £50 for each expansion, plus a monthly fee of £10 to actually play the game. Held almost 18.000.000 players in 2010 I believe.

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World of Warcraft, free..?

I'm sorry but I believe you've mixed things up. World of Warcraft costs about £6 for the vanilla game, then it's ranging from £10 to £50 for each expansion, plus a monthly fee of £10 to actually play the game. Held almost 18.000.000 players in 2010 I believe.

LOSS free. You die, nothing happens.

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World of Warcraft, free..?

I'm sorry but I believe you've mixed things up. World of Warcraft costs about £6 for the vanilla game, then it's ranging from £10 to £50 for each expansion, plus a monthly fee of £10 to actually play the game. Held almost 18.000.000 players in 2010 I believe.

He means when you die you don't lose anything.  The opposite of EVE, for example, where if you get podded you can conceivably lose even your learned skills and you most certainly lose everything on you.

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I'll be honest my British Clan cheers every time we see DRUNK buying a flag and waving two fingers at those who have bent the knee. They are like the mouse biting the elephants leg and if not making it fall over then instead always have to look over its shoulder!


He means when you die you don't lose anything.  The opposite of EVE, for example, where if you get podded you can conceivably lose even your learned skills and you most certainly lose everything on you.

Skillpoint loss has now gone as well (apart from one very specific circumstance)

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Want to play like a Pirate? Come join the Pirates. Want to play like a national? Go join a nation... Unfortunate how those never seem to work out like that, ay?

Not that I don't agree, with what y'all are not doing, more power to you! The idea behind these nations is yes, that you can form these councils and whatever you want. Work together, blah blah, national stuff here...

If 2 little clans are going to un-do what your whole council has worked for... Doesn't say much about your wee council ay? Black list these clans, don't trade with them, give info to the Danes about their whereabouts, operating harbors etc etc...

I support the swede pirates! Yahahar!

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It's simple: when different players from different clans cooperate and make collective decisions, and then someone shows up and tries hard to ruin what they've done, you just don't expect friendly attitude towards this individual (or a group of individuals). Do I personally respect your right to play as you like? Of course I do. Does it mean that I have to respect/support what one's doing and what he is? Of course not.

I don't support any kind of arguing, insults, flaming, people need to keep it calm and polite. But regarding the overall reaction to some actions, seriously, do you expect to make friends with everyone like this? I guess not. 

Besides, isn't it the role your clan has picked? Just keep playing it then.

Ofcourse I understand that they might not be happy with my ways and the ways of DRUNK, but all I ask is what you said. Respect what we want. We dont want your approval, just not to be flamed publicly in the ingame chatt and the forums.

So, tldr, I like you. :)

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On the actual topic - are KNON and Drunk actually strong enough to capture defend ports? And if Fort Baai was not defended and they took it by default, which happens all the time in this game anyways, are they strong enough to hold it against the inevitable counter attack?

If the answer is yes, yet they are the minority, one has to wonder what the majority is up to. Because in that case Sweden would be a remarkably strong nation. Or you've given too much voting power to minor clans that just tag along when PVP happens and shouldn't be making calls in the first place.

As for Herminator, trusting that guy has always been a mistake. Remember how he openly threatened the Dutch with all out war if they were to refuse his orders on this forum. After a month of close alliance. Some friend he is.

Neither RNoN nor DRUNK are able to hold ports on their own nor are they able to capture defended ones.

@OP: I respect people until they don't deserve it anymore. DRUNK is unable to step down under the will of a majority (!).

They are unable to accept an obvious defeat against the Danes and are thus bad loser.

This is enough for me to lose my respect regarding their actions and players.

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On the actual topic - are KNON and Drunk actually strong enough to capture defend ports? And if Fort Baai was not defended and they took it by default, which happens all the time in this game anyways, are they strong enough to hold it against the inevitable counter attack?

 

If the answer is yes, yet they are the minority, one has to wonder what the majority is up to. Because in that case Sweden would be a remarkably strong nation. Or you've given too much voting power to minor clans that just tag along when PVP happens and shouldn't be making calls in the first place.

 

 

As for Herminator, trusting that guy has always been a mistake. Remember how he openly threatened the Dutch with all out war if they were to refuse his orders on this forum. After a month of close alliance. Some friend he is.

Well. I don't know. We've done one port battle only to mu knowledge, and that was a offensive one.

I can however say that in fair fights versus multiple diffrent nations (BR and ship count) we've got a quite nice statistic regarding engaged fights. Statistics as in captured and sunk enemy ships and fkriendly ships lost one way or another.

Regarding what the larger clans are doing, I honestly don't know. I see more danish and french player fleets than swedish player fleets, way more. I am sure they do something but what exactly is for me unkown.

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And? Does this mean we have to fight in this game? No.

Do you want to rewrite history?

And why is it importang that you are from Scania? Nobody cares, except you as it seems. What has your local heritage to do with Denmark?

As a history nerd, ofcourse I want to "rewrite" history and battle in the age of sails?!

And Scania is important for the same reason. That was the area Sweden and Denmark mostly fought over.

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Neither RNoN nor DRUNK are able to hold ports on their own nor are they able to capture defended ones.

 

Immaterial. If they lose it again then so be it. All they've lost is the cash for a flag, oh well.

 

@OP: I respect people until they don't deserve it anymore. DRUNK is unable to step down under the will of a majority (!).

They are unable to accept an obvious defeat against the Danes and are thus bad loser.

This is enough for me to lose my respect regarding their actions and players.

 

Why should they "step down under the will of the majority"? The "majority" means absolutely nothing here because all "diplomacy" is clan-to-clan. You can play the meta-game all you like, and more power to you, but they can as well and have the same right to do so as you. Colour it up however you like, with whatever excuses you please, the end of the story is: You have absolutely no right nor authority to dictate to others how they play their own game. Period. It boggles the mind why this simple fact is so hard for some players to grasp.

 

As for your respect, well, I'm sure that's just tearing them up inside, but they seem like troupers so I'm sure they'll carry on somehow. Seriously, the level of animosity directed towards the clans that decided to keep playing has been disgraceful. The only behaviour related to "griefing" I've seen has been on the side of those who constantly flame groups like mine or DRUNK in nation chat, on these "RP/forum-pvp" forums and even in recruitment threads where that trash most certainly does not belong. You don't need to agree with what they do, but the fact that you like to think you speak for the majority doesn't give you the right to flaunt behavioural expectations in a community like this.

 

What blows me away is that in our fights with the Danes both sides have always ended - without fail - with a salute and a "good fight" regardless of the winner, and in my experience running with DRUNK the same has been true. Every single time. They've enjoyed the PvP as much as we have. The only people crying about it is our own pretend-internet-countrymen. You want to know what sort of behaviour damages a player-base? THIS. This pitiful attempt to bully others into falling into line, like children embittered by the fact that others won't do as they're told. Had I seen this before playing I'd have never bought the game and supported an absurdly immature community such as the National News forum showcases. It's an embarrassment.

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