DRUNK - Accused of Treason

[Grim DeGrim]

Two weeks away from National News.  I haven't missed a thing it seems.  Boys, I'll write your suggestion thread herein for you.  Being as you seem to believe it, I expect to see it in the suggestions forums by end of day March 31.  If not, then what they hay?

 

 

Hello Naval Action Developers.  I am writing you with a great idea.  No, a requirement.  When a player joins "my" nation, please ensure the following dialogue box is presented to them so they know the consequence of their decision.   Ask them if they agree to the terms with a Yes/No option, and automatically assign them to Pirate if they do not agree:

 

 

 

You are about to join the "ABC NATION".  The largest organized group in this nation is "ABC CLAN" and they represent majority opinion.  While playing for "ABC NATION", you will be obligated to follow the lead of "ABC CLAN".  Do you agree:  YES / NO?

 

End of day boys.  Get those twinkle fingers typing.  If this idea sounds absurd...well...maybe it just is!

[Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän]

Two weeks away from National News.  I haven't missed a thing it seems.  Boys, I'll write your suggestion thread herein for you.  Being as you seem to believe it, I expect to see it in the suggestions forums by end of day March 31.  If not, then what they hay?

 

 

End of day boys.  Get those twinkle fingers typing.  If this idea sounds absurd...well...maybe it just is!

Bad idea since that restrains people. Nor is it very fair to all the other players.

[Baron Quertier]

Common sense goes a long way.

You'd like to think so but then here people are trying to get a bunch of guys forced into something they don't want to do, by starting a tribunal when clearly no rules set but the devs have been broken.

[Concord]

There should be consequences for actions of a rogue entity tho. Whether it be being forced to play as pirates or something else, there has to be a consequence.

DRUNK has no obligations to do as the other clans want, attack a nation THEY have a treaty with is not braking any rules, exept the imaginary rules some othe clans might have.

[Kloothommel]

We're not rogue, we just aren't towing the line..

 

That is actually the same...

[Nordtman]

That is actually the same...

 

 

I can see that U have a lot of problems with us, as u Always need to be looking over ur shoulder a couple of extra times Before heading out of a port. And this is screwing ur game up?

 

Maybe u shouldnt play a pvp-wargame or change server to Pve?

[Kloothommel]

I can see that U have a lot of problems with us, as u Always need to be looking over ur shoulder a couple of extra times Before heading out of a port. And this is screwing ur game up?

Maybe u shouldnt play a pvp-wargame or change server to Pve?

Not at all. I just wished you stop running for once andere fight like men instead of cowards.

[Hugo van Grojt]

To who it may concern,

 

I am writing this response as a player not as the ingame character Hugo van Grojt, just to be clear. I am copying this response from the other "open letter to the devs" thread, because it applies to this thread here just the same:

 

The main argument presented by DRUNK and their supporters is essentially the following: 

"Any player should be allowed to play the game as they see fit. Nobody should be allowed to dictate how these players play the game."

 

So, before we go into my argument, let's define and establish some core elements.

 

Let's look at the various primary ways, a player may want to play the game:

1. you want to play as a trader/crafter

2. you want to play PVE (mission running and such)

3. you want to engage in small scale open world PvP (raiding, ganking, et cetera)

4. you want to engage in port battles and SOL fighting

5. you want to participate in the RvR aspect of the game (national wars)

 

Additionally, let us briefly look at what the role of a clan is within the current game mechanics. By joining an ingame clan you, as a player:

1. get a clan tag in front of your name

2. get access to a clan chat and clan mail

That is it, as far as the game is concerned. Nothing more.

 

But what does joining a clan mean for most players? (my personal assumption!) By joining a clan,

1. you join a group of players that most likely share your interests and goals in the game

2. you give authority to the leaders/officials that the clan members elect to lead. 

3. you accept that these clan leaders speak on your behalf during RvR negotiations or national council meetings - for lack of a better system.

 

Okay, now we have established a baseline and the core assumptions. Now, let us explore the original argument using the ingame faction Sweden and Denmark as example:

 

- The majority of players for each nation (organised in the biggest clans, that share a common vision) have agreed not to attack the ports of the opposing faction.

- Some smaller clans disagree with that majority decision and attack ports of the opposing faction using the argument "We just want to play the game as we see fit!"

 

How does the peace decision by the majority of players of each nation prohibit you from playing the game as you want?

1. you want to play as a trader/crafter - you can still do so within the confines of the ports your nation owns

2. you want to play PVE (mission running and such) - you can still do so within the confines of the territory your nation owns

3. you want to engage in small scale open world PvP (raiding, ganking, et cetera) - you can still do so, seeking out enemies that your nation is actually at war with - plenty of opportunities to be had there

4. you want to engage in port battles and SOL fighting - you can still do so, your clan or group of players is free to organise and independent attack on a port of the nation that your nation is at war with. For example, nobody will likely stop DRUNK from attacking a British port.

5. you want to participate in the RvR aspect of the game (national wars) - this is the ONLY part of the game where you are limited. If you absolutely want to wage war against the Danish/Swedish, you actually need to convince the majority of players playing the RvR game that this is the right way to go by increasing your clan member numbers or gaining support from other clans.

 

So, by using some logic, we have established that majority decisions concerning national wars DO NOT prevent players from playing the game as they want. Even if the majority of citizens of a nation agree on having peace between Denmark and Sweden, the players of DRUNK and other small clans still have PLENTY of opportunities to trade, PVE, small scale PvP, do port battles to their hearts' content . The only limit that DRUNK have, is that they should not attack ports that belong to the Danish nation. That is the only limitation of their gameplay experience.

 

My personal opinion in this case is that the interest of the many outweigh the interest of the few in this regard. National wars are a huge community effort that the majority of the citizens of each nation participate in. The enjoyment of the RvR aspect of the game by the MANY should not be nullified by the FEW using the liberty argument.

Or to use a real life example: If you absolutely feel that you can only be free if you run around outside naked, you can do so by moving to the countryside and run around in the forest all you like. But if you do that it in a city you should expect to be arrested because the majority of the city dwellers do not want to have to look at your naked ass. If you defend the right to run around naked in a city because of "freedom" or "liberty" - you are just a troll.

 

TL:DR

Given the assumptions above, it is my strong belief that DRUNK and their supporters do not defend the right to play the game as they want, but rather the right to troll the majority of their nation's playerbase in the RvR aspect of the game. Therefore, a backlash by that majority of players is understandable and I am personally in full support of the majority here, because that is how communities work.

 

Edit: spelling

[Nordtman]

Not at all. I just wished you stop running for once andere fight like men instead of cowards.

 

I do not pretend to be Psilander, (even if my ancester served as second leut. on Öland during the big brawl.)

 

If I am alone caught with 8x3rds and a victory in a renomme: I am using one of the means that this ship been equipt with to deal with an enemy : speed

 

U choose to call me a coward? Do not worry. We will find u and Herminator, and sink u. So u guys better ALWAYS travel with a very strong Escort ;P

[Quineloe]

King Gustavus Adolphus

The Lion from the North

 

 

This isn't ASOIAF

 

Gustav IV Adolf was never known as "the lion from the north"

 

The one you're referring to fought during the 30 years war, which is 150 years before Naval Action.

[Nordtman]

Make them available to be attacked by their own faction, would be an option for a fix period of time.

 

 

Make "them"?  Who is "them" ? are u a part of "them"? Who will decide this ? I am fine with that, coz it means I can attack "them" as well.

[Nordtman]

This isn't ASOIAF

 

Gustav IV Adolf was never known as "the lion from the north"

 

The one you're referring to fought during the 30 years war, which is 150 years before Naval Action.

 

 

Well I Think his reference must be Gustav Adolphus IV,  also know as "Colonel Gustavsson", the King who was trown off the throne and expelled from the country.

Successed by Carolus XIII and Later By the French Marshalk: Jean Baptiste Bernadotte (Carolus XIV, King of Sweden AND Norway))

[Spiffy]

To who it may concern,

 

I am writing this response as a player not as the ingame character Hugo van Grojt, just to be clear. I am copying this response from the other "open letter to the devs" thread, because it applies to this thread here just the same:

 

...

 

So, by using some logic, we have established that majority decisions concerning national wars DO NOT prevent players from playing the game as they want. Even if the majority of citizens of a nation agree on having peace between Denmark and Sweden, the players of DRUNK and other small clans still have PLENTY of opportunities to trade, PVE, small scale PvP, do port battles to their hearts' content . The only limit that DRUNK have, is that they should not attack ports that belong to the Danish nation. That is the only limitation of their gameplay experience.

 

My personal opinion in this case is that the interest of the many outweigh the interest of the few in this regard. National wars are a huge community effort that the majority of the citizens of each nation participate in. The enjoyment of the RvR aspect of the game by the MANY should not be nullified by the FEW using the liberty argument.

Or to use a real life example: If you absolutely feel that you can only be free if you run around outside naked, you can do so by moving to the countryside and run around in the forest all you like. But if you do that it in a city you should expect to be arrested because the majority of the city dwellers do not want to have to look at your naked ass. If you defend the right to run around naked in a city because of "freedom" or "liberty" - you are just a troll.

 

TL:DR

Given the assumptions above, it is my strong belief that DRUNK and their supporters do not defend the right to play the game as they want, but rather the right to troll the majority of their nation's playerbase in the RvR aspect of the game. Therefore, a backlash by that majority of players is understandable and I am personally in full support of the majority here, because that is how communities work.

 

Edit: spelling

 

 

 

An excellent post. 

 

Taking a step back and looking at the situation and the game mechanics: as you say there are rogue clans in pretty much every nation. And by he definition of rogue, let me be gracious and define it as "players who want to wage war on different targets compared to the majority of the playerbase of that nation". While this is allowed under the current game mechanics, it seems clear from the voting that a majority of players consider diplomacy in need of an overhaul to ensure that each nation has a clearly defined status vs another nation (war, peace, ally, cease fire etc).

 

Until this part of the game is improved, the majority can not prevent some players from attacking whomever they want, regardless of the consequences to the rest of the realm. What we can do is calling it out on the forums, as is done here and by the major danish clans in that thread.

 

for example, entertain the hypothesis that another nation would pay a swedish clan for attacking the danes - Not much the rest of us can do about it, until the game mechanics is fixed. This game is very similar to Eve, where the realms=alliance and the clan=corps. The solution there was that alliances could choose which corps would make up the alliance. It seems like such a mechanics would be helpful also in this game, hence the original post.

 

Perhaps we are giving these players a little bit too much attention because of this. And it seems like attention and forum pvp is what some of these players think is most fun... In game it probably has little consequences, as the undefended port that drunk took will be taken back by the danes whenever they want to... So this whole thing seems like pointless "look at me - exercise."

 

The above is my very own views, not representing any clan or realm.

Cheers

/Zpliff

[Hethwill]

C'mon, I came to town to see a hanging !!!!!

 

STRING THEM UP !!!

 

Or at least 1 of them... the cook...yeah the damn cook is to blame !!!

[Captain Underpants]

Lets move on from insulting each other and instead work on some ideas for how Diplomace mechanics etc could be improved. To that end I have posted a new thread with some ideas on it. Please do take a look and give some (polite!) feedback.

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12650-diplomacy-and-port-battles-a-new-vision/

[cheatos503]

Thanks for this post OP. You are a perfect example of RP and delusions of grandeur  gone too far. Your "council" is only as powerful as OTHER people, not you, think it is. You seem view you as important while obviously other people dont have (and understandably) the same impression of your self perceived importance. If and when the JUL and PRICK coalition join your nation, expect the same "rogue" clan action. because no player in this game will dictate my actions, targets, or plans.

[Fischminister]

Thanks for this post OP. You are a perfect example of RP and delusions of grandeur  gone too far. Your "council" is only as powerful as OTHER people, not you, think it is. You seem view you as important while obviously other people dont have (and understandably) the same impression of your self perceived importance. If and when the JUL and PRICK coalition join your nation, expect the same "rogue" clan action. because no player in this game will dictate my actions, targets, or plans.

 

Exept that without the major clans participating in the conquest for new land in the south, sweden would just be a rotten corpse. I thank every swede doing his job in defending his homeland and for the actions in the southern colonies, they are doing their part. If you go against the main diplomancy dont expect gratitude for your "work". And in this case - conspiring with your self proclaimed sworen enemy leaves a really bad taste. cui bono?

[Francis Tabernac]

C'mon, I came to town to see a hanging !!!!!

 

STRING THEM UP !!!

 

Or at least 1 of them... the cook...yeah the damn cook is to blame !!!

 

I swear to God, if he doesn't start going easier on the peppercorns...

Edited March 29, 2016 by Francis Tabernac

[Vllad]

There should be consequences for actions of a rogue entity tho. Whether it be being forced to play as pirates or something else, there has to be a consequence.

 

 

The consequence is they are stuck on a team with elitist like yourself. That is punishment enough.

[Captain Underpants]

So you are saying Sweden should raise a Russian flag...

Does that mean that the Pirates should also raise the Danish flag or vice-versa?!

[Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän]

C'mon, I came to town to see a hanging !!!!!

 

STRING THEM UP !!!

 

Or at least 1 of them... the cook...yeah the damn cook is to blame !!!

What has Silver done you?!

He's a gre... alright... cook.

 

Though.. He does not really know how to cook a pig over a open fire now when I think about it..

He's great at peeling potatos though.. Lots of training what I know.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Sju Sjösjuka Sjömän

[Tretton]

Fantastic, now if they ever remove teleporting with cargo the seas will be full of loot for us Privateers and pirates

Nuf said...

[Grim DeGrim]

Two weeks away from National News. I haven't missed a thing it seems. Boys, I'll write your suggestion thread herein for you. Being as you seem to believe it, I expect to see it in the suggestions forums by end of day March 31. If not, then what they hay?

End of day boys. Get those twinkle fingers typing. If this idea sounds absurd...well...maybe it just is!

Still no thread in the suggestions forum. Does anyone have conviction in this idea that players MUST follow the popular majority?

[Captain Underpants]

I started a suggestions thread for Diplomacy, PB and Pirate mechanics:

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12650-diplomacy-and-port-battles-a-new-vision/

[Grim DeGrim]

I started a suggestions thread for Diplomacy, PB and Pirate mechanics:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12650-diplomacy-and-port-battles-a-new-vision/

Not bad.

Certainly a far cry from "people are traitors for not following our rule" (as this ridiculous thread suggests).

I'll even give it a like