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Spain - British Peace Suggestion [PVP 1]


Jager

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Other spanish people started attacking Southern cuban ports, because in a treaty with those people, that was before the disaster, you promised them those cuban ports. As you broke that promise, because you didn't give the ports or delay sine die their giving, those clans broke negotiations with brits. Indeed there were many mistakes, mainly in the way of done things, from spanish side, they were in the end, right. Also, that casus belli, that is mainly british responsability, on the background, that is well known in our and other nations , is the main argument that is uniting spanish factions and individuals, as the excessive force that you did in response. And that was because many in your own faction were eager in humbling spain since the beginning. There was, not enough interest in british side to hold peace with spain, then ultimately won warmongers. Because, my faction can be apparently divided, but your faction in underground is also divided. So, as I use to repeat, this is a basic weakness of clan diplomacy, and the lack or national diplomacy in the gamplay.  Meanwhile, in our faction, even if we disagree with the way of doing things with RAE, or their strategy, we generally agree that the casus belli of the southern cuba ports is british fault. If you don't understand that, long term relations will be really difficult.

 

 

This is the issue,  other than Gaizka representing the Spanish council at the time.  Do you think we heard from ANY spanish diplomats?  Do you think RAE or any other clan from southern cuba lifted a finger to come talk to us before all this happened?

 

With this massive division between the spanish clans, it is impossible to chase down every individual clan diplomat and find out where they are, what their clans ambitions are, and how to make sure that ONE clan doesnt attack you.  This is a impossibility.  I didnt even know EI/CORSO/RACC existed untill they attacked us.  If these other clans had interests in the away they should a british diplomat down for a chat!

 

Another massive isssue on both sides here is that we are just faceless walls of text,  i do believe most individuals when sat down and talking can get along and have empathy for their fellow human being.  Again do you think since this was any Spanish have contacted me?  Not hard to find ANY british teamspeak  (i sit on about 7 of them at a time).  When i did go join the RAE teamspeak a few days ago, i got banned instantly.  

 

The spanish dont want to talk, thats fine.  They are talking with their guns at the moment.  Which we enjoy :)

 

I do believe still though if two human beings sat down together, they can understand each others plight and see reason.  

 

Untill then let our cannons roar!

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Again as i stated.  Spain is not united. We were dealing with Gaizka, a representative of the Spanish council at the time.  Yet the spanish council didnt include RACC, this is the issue in dealing with Spain.  No unity.

 

Also learning from the Danes with dealing with the french...

 

Very different situations.  Just a note, i was the British diplomat who was sent to listen in to the deal made between Danes with the Swedish and French. So i do have some knowledge on that situation.

 

Firstly they had not made any deals that had fallen through,  France got hit hard and then a deal was offered.  The danes keep 2 ports near the french to ensure the french dont backstab them. Same with the swedes.

 

France and Sweden both had councils and could talk for their nation.  So peace deals could be offered and accepted.  

 

With Britain and Spain.  In the British view they would make a deal with RAE (and as you stated stuff went south in south cuba),  Then make a deal with what is though and told to be a representative of all the other spanish clans except from RAE,  and then we are attack by RACC and EI.  At this point we simply found it impossible to make any long lasting deal with spain, If we make a deal with one set of clans, the other want something else, and vice versa its like dealing with two different nations in the same nation.

 

Unity, Unity, Unity.

According to who?  Where were these council members in any war we've ever been involved in?  You took the word of an individual who has made wild claims that I have yet to see materialize in reality, where were they in the defense of Mexico?  You people were duped by him, and you capitalized on it, I guess if some random person comes up to you claiming to be the President of the United States you'll believe them solely on the merit of their words, right?  No double checking with anyone, no peer reviews of his standing as a diplomat and who exactly he represents?  You can't sit and claim that we're not united to cover up your factions own incompetence in this matter, I'm sorry, it's not going to go unchallenged by me. 

We had the voices of every prominent clan within the faction heard by us, the people who mattered in the faction, the ones who have been fighting from the beginning in great numbers, the ones intercepting your fleets as we speak.  You have no idea what unity is if you think Spain isn't unified, Spain was in the best position it's ever been for unity, and your faction has done nothing but attempt to stamp that out with how you've dealt with us thus far.

The situation with Danes is not that different at all, it shows the degree in which your faction fails in diplomacy, even once enemies can reconcile ports more effectively and fairly than your faction can with people it considered "natural allies".  Taking two ports near the capital as victors should show you the level of ridiculousness in your claim to hold the entire southern part of Cuba from people you are supposed to be friends with, in exchange for ports you were supposed to give back no string attached(minus the gold costs).

"With Britain and Spain.  In the British view they would make a deal with RAE (and as you stated stuff went south in south cuba),  Then make a deal with what is though and told to be a representative of all the other spanish clans except from RAE,  and then we are attack by RACC and EI.  At this point we simply found it impossible to make any long lasting deal with spain, If we make a deal with one set of clans, the other want something else, and vice versa its like dealing with two different nations in the same nation."

This paragraph...

The unity that was achieved included RAE, RACC and EI, and a number of other clans who joined combat whenever they were needed, we by no means achieved what we achieved in order to kill another clan.  We did what we did to achieve a balanced unity among the faction, this was fully ratified a week from my first encounter with your diplomats, and went into effect the same night it was discussed.  Rather than be a constructive force in this whole process, your faction chose to pound it's chest and then combo into extremely poor diplomatic conduct with us.  So, so be it.

Again, told he was a diplomat for the whole faction by who, the person making the claim for himself?  You double checked his prominence as a diplomat with no one of relevance in our talks, that is your fault, not ours.

Competence, competence, competence, your side is lacking this throughout. 

Honestly, do you even know the clans he represented by tags at the very least other than the clan he was in?  What have they done of note for the faction?  How can you honestly be expected to be taken seriously in diplomacy when you just take people at their word and don't do even the most basic research on them what so ever?

 

Edited by TsunamiEmperor
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I really can't be bothered repeating myself over and over.  

 

How the hell are we meant to know the inter clan nation diplomacy of a nation?  

 

One person will say one thing, and another will tell a completely different story.  

 

Thats how it is completely different from dealing with France/Sweden.  They are not disunified nations and can talk with a single voice.

UNITE!  Simple. Instead of blaming each other in a blame game of what clan made what deal, what each clan did to screw up said deals etc.  Ohh your clan is to small to care/know this etc.  Ask EVERY clan to come to a council and vote!

 

Want to talk about competence?  When ever has any spanish diplomat except for Gaizka come to the brititsh before this?

 

There was no diplomacy! 

 

Tsunami, again i didnt even know who the hell you were untill after everything went belly up.  You only had a handful of posts on the forums, no one announced themselves as diplomats etc.  You can not expect diplomats from other nations to CHASE down 8 different diplomats from all these different clans and try to make deals with each one!

 

Its up to the nation to unify itself and talk with ONE voice.

 

Its not up to the other nation, to chase every clan diplomat and try to unify a dam deal with each one.

 

 

THAT IS THE LACK OF DIPLOMACY.

 

Find a single voice.  Then we can talk.

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I really can't be bothered repeating myself over and over.  

 

How the hell are we meant to know the inter clan nation diplomacy of a nation?  

 

One person will say one thing, and another will tell a completely different story.  

 

Thats how it is completely different from dealing with France/Sweden.  They are not disunified nations and can talk with a single voice.

UNITE!  Simple. Instead of blaming each other in a blame game of what clan made what deal, what each clan did to screw up said deals etc.  Ohh your clan is to small to care/know this etc.  Ask EVERY clan to come to a council and vote!

 

Want to talk about competence?  When ever has any spanish diplomat except for Gaizka come to the brititsh before this?

 

There was no diplomacy! 

 

Tsunami, again i didnt even know who the hell you were untill after everything went belly up.  You only had a handful of posts on the forums, no one announced themselves as diplomats etc.  You can not expect diplomats from other nations to CHASE down 8 different diplomats from all these different clans and try to make deals with each one!

 

Its up to the nation to unify itself and talk with ONE voice.

 

Its not up to the other nation, to chase every clan diplomat and try to unify a dam deal with each one.

 

 

THAT IS THE LACK OF DIPLOMACY.

 

Find a single voice.  Then we can talk.

"How the hell are we meant to know the inter clan nation diplomacy of a nation?"

You talk to them, I told you this from the beginning of our interactions on the forums, if you want confirmation you could come into our TS and speak to the leaders of all the clans we represented.  It's so simple I don't even know how to explain it in simpler terms, your people were already in contact with us, all you had to do was CONFIRM the legitimacy of who you were talking to if you were unsure.  You NEGLECTED the majority of the faction to speak to one self-proclaimed diplomat of a tiny community within the faction, when you had FULL access to the rest of our faction via myself and the TS you frequented to speak to us.  Your compatriots failed to tell you of what was going in RAE to solve the problem, the initial people Gaizka and I spoke to initially(Pam and Caldwell), and you talk to us about unity, how inaccessible we are?

This is what I mean with talking in circles with you people, it's never ending, and then you tell me you can't be bothered to repeat yourself?  Then don't, if you can't comprehend the most basic of concepts when dealing with nations, then just don't bother trying to interact with the surrounding factions. 

Just don't try and take this moral high ground on the forums, no one is buying it, and it's responses like this that don't help your faction's image.

Too late now for a peaceful resolution. No need for further talks.

Agreed, I don't even know why they're trying at this point to convince Spain to accept defeat, it's just the same tune as always and no one is bending over to it.

Edited by TsunamiEmperor
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You talk to them, I told you this from the beginning of our interactions on the forums, if you want confirmation you could come into our TS and speak to the leaders of all the clans we represented.

 

Translation: "We shouldn't have to organise ourselves properly; everyone else should have to do all the leg-work instead."

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We dont want ur peace, continue talking about this is ridicolous.

Ridiculous. The word you mean is ridiculous.

As a british player I say no. If you want ports back in Cuba move east on the northern coast. You have 3 enemies around you. Britain, united states and pirates. Attack pirates and we could maybe talk about something. Get some ports back from the pirates if you want some serious talks with us.

Till this we will fight. The only thing you can do up to date is defending Mantua. But for how long. The danish/pirate players talked you into attacking us? Where was their help as we crushed you in 2 days down to 5 ports?

You think franco fleet will help you?

You are not in a position to tell us how many ports we must give you back. You don't want peace? We want to give you our small fingers and you want to chop off our hands? I say to hell with you. If you don't want to play on a normal base and keep listening to danish rats you will just dig your own grave.

For king and country

Edited by CptEdwardKenway
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Ridiculous. The word you mean is ridiculous.

As a british player I say no. If you want ports back in Cubo move east on the northern coast. You have 3 enemies around you. Britain, united states and pirates. Attack pirates and we could maybe talk about something. Get some ports back from the pirates if you want some serious talks with us.

Till this we will fight. The only thing you can do up to date is defending Mantua. But for how long. The danish/pirate players talked you into attacking us? Where was their help as we crushed you in 2 days down to 5 ports?

You think franco fleet will help you?

You are not in a position to tell us how many ports we must give you back. You don't want peace? We want to give you our small fingers and you want to chop off our hands? I say to hell with you. If you don't want to play on a normal base and keep listening to danish rats you will just dig your own grave.

For king and country

 

But I - and some other player also on your side - are feeling entitled to suggest you and Lobogris (just to pick some examples) to meet up somewhere with a bunch of frigates (or lynxes, it's the same) and have a good fight, so you can placate your bloodthirst with YOUR OWN BLOOD.

 

Are we asking really that much, Sir?

 

BTW: it seems that you lost Corrientes this morning.

Edited by victor
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But I - and some other player also on your side - are feeling entitled to suggest you and Lobogris (just to pick some examples) to meet up somewhere with a bunch of frigates (or lynxes, it's the same) and have a good fight, so you can placate your bloodthirst with YOUR OWN BLOOD.

 

Are we asking really that much, Sir?

 

BTW: it seems that you lost Corrientes this morning.

We lost Corrientes and you lost gulf of mexico. Fair trade. You wanna keep asking for more?

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Tsunami, again as Musuko stated.  

 

You expect another nations diplomat to run around talking to each and every clan and make sure they are all in agreement?  Thats not my job mate.

Spend enough time talking to the British clans making sure they are in agreement let alone dealing with anothers.

 

Do you think the danes spoke to every french clan?  Or every swedish clan?

 

No they spoke to representatives of all the clans.

 

The lack of unity between the spanish clans is what got them into this situation.

 

That's why on the spanish forums they have been calling for a council, and why i hear there was/is going to be a council meeting.

 

I'm glad to hear this, and i do hope they can come to agreements together to chose a course of action.  No matter what ever that action may be.


 

Edited by Wang
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We lost Corrientes and you lost gulf of mexico. Fair trade. You wanna keep asking for more?

 

 

  •  

 

whos care golf of mexico now??? to you?? that give yours ports to U.S.

 

You can surrender, i still waiting your surrender in Habana beach. :D  :D  :D :D  

 

If you prefer we can pay with money of Admiral Vernon, you know? heroe that take Cartagena de Indias B) you also send a letter to your King telling that win the war??? :D  :D

srkIa0.jpg

Edited by Alado
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Tsunami I was wondering why finding a reasonable solution was so hard and your comments have made it clear. you have a competely biased, one sided and disrespectful view of everything. you blame everything on everyone else, you are publicly rude and dismissive etc. yet you broadly accuse ALL british diplomats of being useless? gosh you are childish. the events you are talking about are totally twisted, the British have tried hard for weeks not just to make peace but even to work out who in spain can actually make those decisions.

 

You talk about making peace only when Britain has been humbled but have you learned nothing from the Spanish experience? your nation has been totally humbled and did it make you want peace? no. it made you fight more. you must understand that it is no different for anyone else.

 

You say that when Spanish deals were broken it was only you 'teaching us a lesson' or 'the actions of just one individual' and thats not your fault as a nation. however when British break a deal its the fault of the entire nation. you allow no reasoning for why did we break the deal. can you not think we had similar reasons?

 

You clearly think you are a diplomat and but nothing you say is diplomatic, you expect everyone else to make all the effort and not you, you are allowed to break deals to make a point while your opponents arent and you are rude to every single person you are dealing with. you dont seem to understand even the basics of diplomacy, you act like an angry child shouting that everything is everyone elses fault and that you are better than all of them. can you not see why this doesnt work?

 

The irony is that you accuse the britsh of not being able to learn from their mistakes, while not only do you not learn from yours, you dont even realise you are making them.

Edited by JCDC
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Tsunami I was wondering why finding a reasonable solution was so hard and your comments have made it clear. you have a competely biased, one sided and disrespectful view of everything. you blame everything on everyone else, you are publicly rude and dismissive etc. yet you broadly accuse ALL british diplomats of being useless? gosh you are childish. the events you are talking about are totally twisted, the British have tried hard for weeks not just to make peace but even to work out who in spain can actually make those decisions.

You talk about making peace only when Britain has been humbled but have you learned nothing from the Spanish experience? your nation has been totally humbled and did it make you want peace? no. it made you fight more. you must understand that it is no different for anyone else.

You say that when Spanish deals were broken it was only you 'teaching us a lesson' or 'the actions of just one individual' and thats not your fault as a nation. however when British break a deal its the fault of the entire nation. you allow no reasoning for why did we break the deal. can you not think we had similar reasons?

You clearly think you are a diplomat and but nothing you say is diplomatic, you expect everyone else to make all the effort and not you, you are allowed to break deals to make a point while your opponents arent and you are rude to every single person you are dealing with. you dont seem to understand even the basics of diplomacy, you act like an angry child shouting that everything is everyone elses fault and that you are better than all of them. can you not see why this doesnt work?

The irony is that you accuse the britsh of not being able to learn from their mistakes, while not only do you not learn from yours, you dont even realise you are making them.

Well spoken Sir.

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Ok seriously, this topic has gone way off topic and i do recall asking that you did not bring the flame war into it. There has been literally only a handful of SUGGESTIONS about how a peace could be reached if it was offered. THIS WAS NOT A OFFER as many from both sides thought it would be.

 

I am disappointed that both sides Spain and Britain captains have came into this topic just to bloody continue blaming/arguing about pointless little things instead of suggesting ways peace could be had.

 

Then to top it all off you have captains from other nations coming into this topic just to post there 2 cents to annoy and get a response from british captains. Seriously You all need to wake the hell up and stop being kids on the forums.

 

The whole reason for this topic was to suggest peace as from what i had heard from spanish players who were unclanned in global and some that were clanned up that prices of certain resources such as coal sometimes reach the mark of 300 gold per 1. You guys that are in clans might not have to worry about this if your allies are supplying you resources but your public players can't craft at times. On top of that you have been losing players from your nation or so i had heard. These players mostly left the game which isn't a good sign for the whole community.

 

Out of the 8 pages i have only seen about 5 actual suggestions. 5 SUGGESTIONS from 8 pages means that this whole thread has gone way off topic.

 

So in that case i am contacting a mod to close this topic as you all seem to forget that i did ask for this topic to be 1 civil and 2 to only have suggestions on peace.

 

Good Day Gentlemen

Jager

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