Spain - British Peace Suggestion [PVP 1]

[maturin]

The Spanish economy isn't as bad as all that. Thanks to buildings we have everything but fir and coal, and there are alternate sources for that.

 

I suppose we should be flattered that the British view the stalemate at Mantua as so taxing that they need the help of another superpower there, and not someplace else. Why isn't the U.S. fighting a real war for deep water pirate ports? They won't be fanatically defended like the Spanish four.

 

 

 

If I were a British strategist, I would fight a delaying action in Yucatan and Mexico with a skeleton crew, using timers to funnel the Spanish advance. Then focus on the trainwreck in Jamaica. If Britain can get that under control, it will have a much easier time making peace with a Spain that has newfound markets and supply lines to defend. There is an informal term in geopolitics called the offramp, which is what the defiant Spanish need.

['Sharpe]

Hi,

 

By carrying on this senseless war with Spain we are only making the Pirates stronger.

Spanish players are clearly leaving their nation to join the Pirates, so you are actually creating a more powerful and dangerous faction.

 

This is a game mechanic issue. Right now the only way that players can switch nations and keep XP is to join the already-most populated nation. It's completely insane!!

[Conde]

This is a game mechanic issue. Right now the only way that players can switch nations and keep XP is to join the already-most populated nation. It's completely insane!!

You keep all of your XP if you reroll completely (Deleting your character) as it is saved with your steam acc.

[Fastidius]

Why do we care if we are at war with spain?

 

at the end of the day we might lose some ports here and there but now that we produce our own resources we only need to fortify a certain amount of area.....basically we have an area we care about that we own always and the rest is just free fire areas we hit when we want.  we already know we have the upper hand at this point in time.  Let spain rebuild and come back at us or not....we don't really need an agreement...in fact having them earn their wins back might be better for them long term........

 

 

At the moment the developers have a few hurdles they need to deal with before they can say the game is Viable.  The current setup does not encourage PVP and the Diplomacy system is a vacuum where no one can hear you scream...  reality is multiple nationalities does not work in it's current form and unless there is a reward/punishment system for ownership of ports put in place it is a failure.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Fastidius

[TsunamiEmperor]

So you'll be giving back the Gulf of Mexico, then?

 

We're rightly blaming you for the entire British nation's crime of going apeshit over what one guy did at Misteriosa.

It wasn't over Misteriosa, they went ape-shit over Pepe attacking the south eastern part of Cuba, and this went through based on confusion between what was being talked about between multiple Spanish higher-ups and G'kar at the time, and whether the plan was in effect.  When Spain realized that Pepe was attacking out of anger, and not agreement, Papa Bear and myself, and later Gaizka went to speak with multiple British representatives to alleviate the situation.  We came up with a solution, put it into effect, but the British were apparently just too scarred by the whole ordeal of losing a couple of Cuban ports to accept it, and escalated the situation out of control.

Misteriosa is just a talking point they keep clinging too mindlessly to desperately gain any moral high ground, none of which they have.  It's ironic, because I proposed the idea of an armistice to Wang before the talks, but even he acknowledged that it would be impossible to regulate.  Yet they insist on using it as a propaganda tool, all the while expecting anyone to take them seriously at the diplomatic table as they do these things.

I'm not going to tell Spain to keep fighting, nor will I tell them to sue for peace, all I will say is we are coming and the British are scared.  Do with that information what you will, but your destiny as it stands is up to what you are willing to endure.  We will not force the nation of Spain to endure what it is unwilling to endure for a promise, because no matter what happens in these negotiations does not change the oath we made as Spaniards. 

We will fulfill our promise to Spain one way or another.

Edited March 18, 2016 by TsunamiEmperor

[mouse of war]

It wasn't over Misteriosa, they went ape-shit over Pepe attacking the south eastern part of Cuba, and this went through based on confusion between what was being talked about between multiple Spanish higher-ups and G'kar at the time, and whether the plan was in effect.  When Spain realized that Pepe was attacking out of anger, and not agreement, Papa Bear and myself, and later Gaizka went to speak with multiple British representatives to alleviate the situation.  We came up with a solution, put it into effect, but the British were apparently just too scarred by the whole ordeal of losing a couple of Cuban ports to accept it, and escalated the situation out of control.

Misteriosa is just a talking point they keep clinging too mindlessly to desperately gain any moral high ground, none of which they have.  It's ironic, because I proposed the idea of an armistice to Wang before the talks, but even he acknowledged that it would be impossible to regulate.  Yet they insist on using it as a propaganda tool, all the while expecting anyone to take them seriously at the diplomatic table as they do these things.

I'm not going to tell Spain to keep fighting, nor will I tell them to sue for peace, all I will say is we are coming and the British are scared.  Do with that information what you will, but your destiny as it stands is up to what you are willing to endure.  We will not force the nation of Spain to endure what it is unwilling to endure for a promise, because no matter what happens in these negotiations does not change the oath we made as Spaniards. 

We will fulfill our promise to Spain one way or another.

 

British are scared?

 

Oh yes, if you combine with all the other nations on the map you might cause us some concern - numbers do count after all. And I'm sure that taking advantage of those numbers must make you very proud.

 

But 'scared' ? Scared of what exactly ?

[Alvar Fañez de Minaya]

They have so far, that's why Spain has 4 ports.

 

We're trying to stop the guns doing the talking...

 

Spain has just 4 ports because you have conquered the rest.

 

So your game with spain is finished and you want that guns stop talking.

 

But Spain loosed all the ports. Our game with england starts now to take back those ports or at least make guerrilla warfare.....

 

First rule for guerrilla warfare sayd....... Don't let the invaders used all the resources in first line combat......... the rear should be another battlefield..........

 

Easy to understand I think....... nothing strange to the art of war,,,,,,,,,,,

 

A country begun a peace talks when has something to loose............. 

 

I repeat......... the arrogance of the redcoats reduced spain to nothing...... so we have nothing to loose...........

 

We will have peace with Brits when we have again those ports conquered or when brits has the same number of ports than us.......... 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Alvar Fanez de Minaya

[Thomas Rousseau]

British are scared?

 

Oh yes, if you combine with all the other nations on the map you might cause us some concern - numbers do count after all. And I'm sure that taking advantage of those numbers must make you very proud.

 

But 'scared' ? Scared of what exactly ?

 

Losing ?   

[Charles Caldwell]

Gentlemen, gentlemen.... its clear we have reached a stalemate. Let our guns do the talking.

 

The Spanish will fight on (credit to them - are you watching France) and the British will fight everyone (even more credit to them).

 

I tire of this toing and froing*, let the Spanish fight their war and let us concentrate on ours.

 

 

RULE BRITANNIA!

 

 

 

* For our spanish members

[Don Alonso]

Now like i said above it was a suggestion not a offer, now the way i see it both nations words can't be trusted and i get that but if we keep holding grudges how is anything going to move on?

 

Probably is needed first, that Brits go out of Cuba unilaterally, and wait to cool down the conflict by itself. We spanish will begin to take cuban ports and we'll have to defend them, in which we'll have to center our meager forces, or fail again. Almost surely, wait, cool dawn and see for a while, before trust can be redone for both, is needed.

[Bougainville]

The Spanish will fight on (credit to them - are you watching France)

 

How many times will you let yourself hoist on your own petard?

We have been watching, highly entertained, the British deploy fanatical efforts on this thread to extricate themselves from the "third front", going after the mosquito while being trampled by an elephant. France, whilst suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, did not initiate peace talks with the Dane. You, on the other side, already scream like a pig after having lost a fraction of your possessions.

The amazing regularity at which your own words come bite you in the rear end, my dear captain, should only compel the most honorable among your countrymen to ask you to change your repertoire, for it is but a stain on England's reputation. Alas it seems, you are enjoying too much playing King of the Hill to notice you are doing it on a pile of rubble.

We wish you good fortune on your endeavour, nonetheless, and to save your breath for when your crew will eventually have you keelhauled under an english hull.

Sincerely,

Louis-Antoine de Bougainville

Edited March 18, 2016 by Bougainville

[Kutai]

Gentlemen, gentlemen.... its clear we have reached a stalemate. Let our guns do the talking.

The Spanish will fight on (credit to them - are you watching France) and the British will fight everyone (even more credit to them).

I tire of this toing and froing*, let the Spanish fight their war and let us concentrate on ours.

RULE BRITANNIA!

* For our spanish members

Now insulting the French.. it is almost like you can not help yourself.

The French are fighting. Just not who YOU want them to. They now fight for themselves.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Kutai

[Jonathan Arlington]

Probably is needed first, that Brits go out of Cuba unilaterally, and wait to cool down the conflict by itself. We spanish will begin to take cuban ports and we'll have to defend them, in which we'll have to center our meager forces, or fail again. Almost surely, wait, cool dawn and see for a while, before trust can be redone for both, is needed.

So what is it about. We leave cuba to you and then your warmongers again are awnsering "No"... ?

This is no way to go for. Trustfilling example have to come from both sides. please stop pretending this situation is just to blame all to the british.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Jonathan Arlington

[Llewellyn Jones RN]

The only reason I can see that Spain wants the port Robras and Batabano is for the coal and fir. The rest of the Southern side is irrelivent so there is no problems keeping them to be honest getting coal is easy atm but you want those ports because they are the closest that provide those specific resources.

[Krupi]

The French are fighting. Just not who YOU want them to. They now fight for themselves.

Ahahaha how can you say that we just have to look at the map and see the Danish port near your capital full of ships ready to crush you if you don't do your masters bidding.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Krupi

[Galileus]

Hi, I'm Brit #<please insert player number>, and I wanted to say French are lapdogs of Dane-Norway. I acknowledge this taunt was by now used by #<please insert player number> British players, but I ask to be forgiven the lack of originality, for I am, in fact, British.

Please feel free to disregard my post, as this is exact copy of #<please insert player number> other British posts.

[Kutai]

Ahahaha how can you say that we just have to look at the map and see the Danish port near your capital full of ships ready to crush you if you don't do your masters bidding.

I am not French buddy.

[Wang]

It wasn't over Misteriosa, they went ape-shit over Pepe attacking the south eastern part of Cuba, and this went through based on confusion between what was being talked about between multiple Spanish higher-ups and G'kar at the time, and whether the plan was in effect.  When Spain realized that Pepe was attacking out of anger, and not agreement, Papa Bear and myself, and later Gaizka went to speak with multiple British representatives to alleviate the situation.  We came up with a solution, put it into effect, but the British were apparently just too scarred by the whole ordeal of losing a couple of Cuban ports to accept it, and escalated the situation out of control.

Misteriosa is just a talking point they keep clinging too mindlessly to desperately gain any moral high ground, none of which they have.  It's ironic, because I proposed the idea of an armistice to Wang before the talks, but even he acknowledged that it would be impossible to regulate.  Yet they insist on using it as a propaganda tool, all the while expecting anyone to take them seriously at the diplomatic table as they do these things.

I'm not going to tell Spain to keep fighting, nor will I tell them to sue for peace, all I will say is we are coming and the British are scared.  Do with that information what you will, but your destiny as it stands is up to what you are willing to endure.  We will not force the nation of Spain to endure what it is unwilling to endure for a promise, because no matter what happens in these negotiations does not change the oath we made as Spaniards. 

We will fulfill our promise to Spain one way or another.

 

 

Quiet a accurate description!  

 

The two issues though,  the deal with Gaizka we were ready to accept and wanted to do.  Then other people stepped in and started attacking Southern cuban ports.  Then the proposal from yourself tsunami, wasnt in the eyes of the british a fair one.  Comming to the table asking for 16 ports was not something Britain as a whole could accept.  Unfortunately we couldnt come to any other terms to sort it out in time, and relations broke down after that.

The number one issue Britain has with Spain is that at this point they still can't speak with a unified voice.  No terms of peace can come about unless Spain is unified under a council system of some sort.  The war will continue as long as Spain is divided.  

 

The fact that RACC and other Spanish have re rolled pirate and helping prop up the spanish is also continuing the war.  Now if a unified Spain wants war, thats fine.  They will get it.  They do need to unify under some sort of system, what ever system it may be.

 

Also to state that Britain is scared?  You are very wrong on that.

 

We are lucky we are a populated nation. That cover all time zones and can field fleets at all timezones.  Being attacked on 3 fronts is driving us into more resolve than anything else.  We can do port battles around the clock, and our guys are having a blast doing it!

[Snoopy]

It wasn't over Misteriosa, they went ape-shit over Pepe attacking the south eastern part of Cuba, and this went through based on confusion between what was being talked about between multiple Spanish higher-ups and G'kar at the time, and whether the plan was in effect. 

[..]

TsunamiEmperor, you're mostly right about what happened w/respect to Spain - and I will add my personal opinion that British response was very heavy handed but some form of response was needed. This is one of the small steps why this has spun out of control

You should return to Spain and use that reason of yours there, pirates already had a cohesive national policy.

 

You are wrong about us being scared though, I enjoy GB not being top dog any longer; it was the number one thing that made me hesitant choosing the faction - too many Aubrey111s. There is quite a bit of fight left still ..  and this is what this game is about!

[maturin]

In my mind, peace is not imperative immediately.

 

But unless relations are patched up sometime in the nearish future, it's possible that today's bad blood could complicate the formation of alliances far, far down the road.

 

Spain will inevitable find itself in a real alliance with one major faction or other, once those game features come out.*

 

 

 

 

*Given Spain's cursed fate in this game, it will probably end up getting attacked by allied U.S. and Britain, but whatevs.

[Don Alonso]

Quiet a accurate description!  

 

The two issues though,  the deal with Gaizka we were ready to accept and wanted to do.  Then other people stepped in and started attacking Southern cuban ports.  Then the proposal from yourself tsunami, wasnt in the eyes of the british a fair one.  Comming to the table asking for 16 ports was not something Britain as a whole could accept.  Unfortunately we couldnt come to any other terms to sort it out in time, and relations broke down after that.

The number one issue Britain has with Spain is that at this point they still can't speak with a unified voice.  No terms of peace can come about unless Spain is unified under a council system of some sort.  The war will continue as long as Spain is divided.  

 

 

Other spanish people started attacking Southern cuban ports, because in a treaty with those people, that was before the disaster, you promised them those cuban ports. As you broke that promise, because you didn't give the ports or delay sine die their giving, those clans broke negotiations with brits. Indeed there were many mistakes, mainly in the way of done things, from spanish side, they were in the end, right. Also, that casus belli, that is mainly british responsability, on the background, that is well known in our and other nations , is the main argument that is uniting spanish factions and individuals, as the excessive force that you did in response. And that was because many in your own faction were eager in humbling spain since the beginning. There was, not enough interest in british side to hold peace with spain, then ultimately won warmongers. Because, my faction can be apparently divided, but your faction in underground is also divided. So, as I use to repeat, this is a basic weakness of clan diplomacy, and the lack or national diplomacy in the gamplay.  Meanwhile, in our faction, even if we disagree with the way of doing things with RAE, or their strategy, we generally agree that the casus belli of the southern cuba ports is british fault. If you don't understand that, long term relations will be really difficult.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Don Alonso

[TsunamiEmperor]

TsunamiEmperor, you're mostly right about what happened w/respect to Spain - and I will add my personal opinion that British response was very heavy handed but some form of response was needed. This is one of the small steps why this has spun out of control

You should return to Spain and use that reason of yours there, pirates already had a cohesive national policy.

 

You are wrong about us being scared though, I enjoy GB not being top dog any longer; it was the number one thing that made me hesitant choosing the faction - too many Aubrey111s. There is quite a bit of fight left still ..  and this is what this game is about!

I know I am, I've been on the frontier of this debacle since it happened, we came up with a solid solution and wouldn't have had any issue with you retaking the ports.  This spun out of control because your diplomats have absolutely no clue what they're doing, and how to proceed in minor crisis' like this.  What should've been a simple "sorry it was a mistake, the person responsible for it has been dealt with, you can have the ports back if you want", turned into failure after failure on the part of the British delegates.  Taking everything west of Cochinos was inexcusable and far too harmful to Spain's industry, and the amount of difficulty I encountered while trying to recover it through diplomatic talks simply revealed the nature of your leaders.  They have put Spain in a position where we can never trust them again, because they've shown us what they do with power and agreements.  Nothing was honored by Britain from start to finish, the ports your faction were asked to assist us in returning were used against us as forward operating bases in the conflict that ensued.

Meanwhile we made a symbolic stand at Siguanea, knowing full well that you were going to flip the ports in the Yucatan the next day, we made it clear we were not on-board with the deal you made behind closed doors with another party to give away southern Cuba for it.  Rather than wait for you to flip the ports and then back stab you after that, we chose to be honorable and make a clear and harmless statement at Siguenea.  To help you understand the foolishness of the deal that was made with the other party in Spain, and how many people it did not represent in the faction.  This apparently went unnoticed, and we were punished for this honorable conduct.

Failure to follow up on the solution, and failure to respect the borders of an entire nation over the actions of a single individual, Britain has no right to impose it's will on Spain over such failures like this and I will not stop fighting among the corsairs for as long as the British insist on bringing Spain to heel and wrestling ports that rightfully belong to them.

I don't mean you're all scared as a general statement, there are definitely many among you that don't like the multiple fronts open everywhere, and the losses of ports in places far too close to home.  I'm sure there are other people who feel as you do within the faction, that would rather see a constructive end to things, but what I experienced with your leadership tells me that's not going to happen among the higher ups anytime soon.  The ports that were put into question should have been returned to Spain as a common sense measure to maintain peace at the bare minimum, they refused this notion as too catastrophic for their nation's morale and self-image.

I will return to Spain one day, but for now I have goals and oaths to fulfill between both Spain, and the pirates as they have been honorable partners in this entire endeavor to whom I owe much gratitude.

When your empire is sufficiently crippled enough to where I feel that Spain can once again function as a sovereign nation with secure borders, that's when this will end, until then the fight continues for us who have departed to the eastern front.

Edited March 19, 2016 by TsunamiEmperor

[TsunamiEmperor]

Quiet a accurate description!  

 

The two issues though,  the deal with Gaizka we were ready to accept and wanted to do.  Then other people stepped in and started attacking Southern cuban ports.  Then the proposal from yourself tsunami, wasnt in the eyes of the british a fair one.  Comming to the table asking for 16 ports was not something Britain as a whole could accept.  Unfortunately we couldnt come to any other terms to sort it out in time, and relations broke down after that.

The number one issue Britain has with Spain is that at this point they still can't speak with a unified voice.  No terms of peace can come about unless Spain is unified under a council system of some sort.  The war will continue as long as Spain is divided.  

 

The fact that RACC and other Spanish have re rolled pirate and helping prop up the spanish is also continuing the war.  Now if a unified Spain wants war, thats fine.  They will get it.  They do need to unify under some sort of system, what ever system it may be.

 

Also to state that Britain is scared?  You are very wrong on that.

 

We are lucky we are a populated nation. That cover all time zones and can field fleets at all timezones.  Being attacked on 3 fronts is driving us into more resolve than anything else.  We can do port battles around the clock, and our guys are having a blast doing it!

The problem is your diplomats followed up only with Gaizka, and not myself, which is interesting considering the main situation that surrounded the whole situation had more to do with myself and RAE than it did with Gaizka.  Yet, in their infinite wisdom, they chose to neglect the solutions put forward and react as they did, and now we are here.

Coming to the table asking for 16 ports you took unjustly/mistakenly/failed to return as per previous agreements is by no means unreasonable, your factions capitalized one one mistake after another, and for some reason insist that returning ports you just annexed recently was too much for your faction to bare.  So again, we are here.

I'm pretty certain the majority of the corsairs that came with us to pirates are mainly RACC, a large contingency stayed to defend Spain while we coalesced with a faction that we could fill the gaps in soundly to help achieve our long-term goals alongside the pirates.

Our worldviews are at odds with each other, that is the problem here, you cannot reconcile things that I consider common sense for one nation to do for another they are on good terms with.  We handle problems and crises differently, and by these revelations it's pretty clear our factions are not natural allies, and so it was made very clear that we would be at war for a very long time.  That is why I went pirate, because the timers you set prevent Spain from launching effective counter-attacks, but as a pirate, your timers cannot hide you from us.  Your faction should take a lesson on interrelations from the Danes, and how they treated the French after they achieved victory, far better than you treated your once allies in this entire issue.

So yes, we will fight on, and your faction will either be at odds with it's decisions for the rest of time, or they will take the time to reflect on how they deal with other factions and have the self-awareness to witness the result up to this point.

[Musuko42]

 You, on the other side, already scream like a pig after having lost a fraction of your possessions.

 

One player, who isn't a diplomat, and who doesn't speak for the faction (nor even officially for his clan), put forward a peace proposal, and you take that to mean the whole British faction is having an attack of the vapours, dropping their monacles into their port, and wetting themselves in fear?

[Wang]

The problem is your diplomats followed up only with Gaizka, and not myself, which is interesting considering the main situation that surrounded the whole situation had more to do with myself and RAE than it did with Gaizka.  Yet, in their infinite wisdom, they chose to neglect the solutions put forward and react as they did, and now we are here.

Coming to the table asking for 16 ports you took unjustly/mistakenly/failed to return as per previous agreements is by no means unreasonable, your factions capitalized one one mistake after another, and for some reason insist that returning ports you just annexed recently was too much for your faction to bare.  So again, we are here.

I'm pretty certain the majority of the corsairs that came with us to pirates are mainly RACC, a large contingency stayed to defend Spain while we coalesced with a faction that we could fill the gaps in soundly to help achieve our long-term goals alongside the pirates.

Our worldviews are at odds with each other, that is the problem here, you cannot reconcile things that I consider common sense for one nation to do for another they are on good terms with.  We handle problems and crises differently, and by these revelations it's pretty clear our factions are not natural allies, and so it was made very clear that we would be at war for a very long time.  That is why I went pirate, because the timers you set prevent Spain from launching effective counter-attacks, but as a pirate, your timers cannot hide you from us.  Your faction should take a lesson on interrelations from the Danes, and how they treated the French after they achieved victory, far better than you treated your once allies in this entire issue.

So yes, we will fight on, and your faction will either be at odds with it's decisions for the rest of time, or they will take the time to reflect on how they deal with other factions and have the self-awareness to witness the result up to this point.

 

Again as i stated.  Spain is not united. We were dealing with Gaizka, a representative of the Spanish council at the time.  Yet the spanish council didnt include RACC, this is the issue in dealing with Spain.  No unity.

 

Also learning from the Danes with dealing with the french...

 

Very different situations.  Just a note, i was the British diplomat who was sent to listen in to the deal made between Danes with the Swedish and French. So i do have some knowledge on that situation.

 

Firstly they had not made any deals that had fallen through,  France got hit hard and then a deal was offered.  The danes keep 2 ports near the french to ensure the french dont backstab them. Same with the swedes.

 

France and Sweden both had councils and could talk for their nation.  So peace deals could be offered and accepted.  

 

With Britain and Spain.  In the British view they would make a deal with RAE (and as you stated stuff went south in south cuba),  Then make a deal with what is though and told to be a representative of all the other spanish clans except from RAE,  and then we are attack by RACC and EI.  At this point we simply found it impossible to make any long lasting deal with spain, If we make a deal with one set of clans, the other want something else, and vice versa its like dealing with two different nations in the same nation.

 

Unity, Unity, Unity.