Spain - British Peace Suggestion [PVP 1]

[Mighty Bouff]

Perfect......... Two big nations with no fear..............

 

let the guns speak.............. 

They have so far, that's why Spain has 4 ports.

 

We're trying to stop the guns doing the talking...

[Jonathan Arlington]

Lobogris you are Not the speaking organ of the whole nation. You brought your point, but stop crying now. You seid your words now let the other one speak for themselve.

I think there is one thing we will loose up to that point and this is the fun part for every site. Because up to now there will be no end we have to freedom one warside like the danes've done it before with sweden. Funny every's forgotten this point, but hey this is so much three weeks ago... ????

Will it help us? Maybe. Will it be fun? No.

So why not slow down with Spain, give them time to regain strength and then again we could have some fun.

In this situation the dane-coalition of danes, Pirates, french can have some funny fights with us (or is that midshipman-threatening realy fun for you?).

By the way. It is quite funny reading about how much you all hate us because we used the same rude (that's for sure) tactic the danes come along with sweden (nobody seams to care) two weeks ago, while writing about doing the same to the british if you will win this war.

Second, you all seam to believe the words of the danes and Pirates (and you do not care they took your Ports in north-cuba too, but hey, that's okay for you) Telling you we want to dominate the community but in fact:

We declaire war, come back to the table and talk to our entließ about peace so our enemy can restrength for a new round while the danes whiped out two nations, "allowed" them to regain some ports with strict order not to fight again the danes and with the danes telling everyone were to Sail and fight on. You think you are fighting for a free caribic but in the end you will wake up in a caribic where the danes will tell you where to sail, where to fight and against whom. And up to this point free nations are dead.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Jonathan Arlington

[Snoopy]

Both nations need to relearn trust again.

To this end Jager's offer seems like a worthwhile first step no?

[Jonathan Arlington]

Both nations need to relearn trust again.

To this end Jager's offer seems like a worthwhile first step no?

This! Gentlemen, you seam to be a noble spirit, first round of scotch will be paid by me.

[Llewellyn Jones RN]

Too much BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

If u want peace give us back 15 ports immediatly, if not say welcome to the shallows

Read the original post 21 ports.

So you'll be giving back the Gulf of Mexico, then?

That's what is suggested yes. Well the ports that are in our power to do so. We can't give back what we don't own.

[Captain Underpants]

I rather liked somebody's description of Spain being like the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail!

Speaking as a British player and only for myself, certain things seem apparent at the moment.

1. Spain have lost the war against Britain and do not at this present moment have the power to defend themselves adequately if Britain truly decides to wipe their last ports out. Nor do Spain, at the moment pose any significant attacking threat.

2. Significant numbers of Spanish players have left to join other factions or have quit the game entirely.

3. What happens now may effect the long-term health of the Spanish faction, even beyond a map reset as players may not return and newer players find it too hard playing for Spain.

4. It is in everybody's interest for Naval Action to have a healthy and competitive Spain given their iconic status in particular.

5. Whatever reason there MIGHT have been for Britain to seek revenge against the Spanish; that revenge has surely been more than had. This is especially true given most of the Spanish players involved in the initial disputes no longer play for Spain. Britain is mainly now punishing innocent and newer Spanish players for the perceived sins of others.

It is possible to be honourable or dishonourable in defeat or victory. I don't believe there is any honour to be had in continuing to attack a beaten/fallen foe, neither do I believe there is any honour in Britain continuing to attack Spain - only dishonor.

I do not agree with the argument oft used on these forums, that where a peace is not in place and a weaker faction wishing to fight on, the dominant nation must continue attacking the enemy down to their last port. Whether Spain accepts a peace treaty or not, Britain does not HAVE to keep attacking Spanish ports - they can and should choose to be merciful instead.

Regarding the initial causes for the conflict, I believe that a line needs to be drawn under past events. This is a game played by individuals; individual players and clans. As such, these individuals will behave unpredictably and, until we have a proper diplomacy system in place, misunderstandings, disagreements, confusion etc will be the norm. We must understand this and recognise that people of good will and honour may still fall foul of miscommunication and so on leading to scenarios such as this. Hence, healthy restraint is a wise and true virtue whilst still engaging in competitive play.

Sorry for the long post but as a British player, I do not like seeing us utterly humiliate another nation (as we have seen before) and damage the future of this wonderful game.

We are better than that...

TLDR: Britain should be merciful and generous to the Spanish, and cease attacking their ports regardless of whether Spain agrees to a peace deal or not.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Captain Underpants

[Halsey74]

I speak for myself.

At this time are not possible peace talks. Because many British players show a very poor opinion of the Spanish players .

Before speaking we have to earn that respect by fighting .

Set your port timers to friendly hours and fight with us.

Do not conceal this you behind your timers, it is not necessary for a weak nation .

Edited March 17, 2016 by Halsey74

[victor]

This will be my last posts in this topic.

 

After all I'm just a spanish carebear speaking for himself. But I have a certain experience in RvR diplomacy in MMORPGs.

 

Personally I learnt not to trust anybody and to trust everybody at the same time. Diplomacy is not about trust, rather about mutual interest and balance of power. It's called realpolitik for a reason.

 

So let's analize the situation with a realpolitik POV:

 

1) for a little - but "combative" and proud - faction like Spain the main goal is to regain quickly sufficient towns and resources to have it's own place in the map and to self mantain its economy;

 

2) the Timers of Ports prevent us to be as effective as we could be in re-conquering ports (this is a flawed mechanic in my opinion, but that's it)

 

3) Now it's the best moment for Spain to negotiate a deal with someone, since there's a "big" war going on between "big fishes".

 

Problem is: who we shoud deal with in order to gain more: The Brits? The Danes/french? The US? The pastafarians?

 

Of course it's up to spanish diplomats and/or clan leaders to decide what to do (I'm just a spanish trader and carebear, so my opinion does not count as much here), but let me tell you one thing: as a matter of facts - on one hand - now Brits are in a much weaker position than before (as lobogris noted, they have to face the Danes and the French offensive in the south and we've beaten them out of the water for four days in a row in Mantua showing them that we are not an easy prey as they may have thought) and - on the other hand - Brits have actually to give us something worthy that other factions - at least now - cannot give us: the control of a number of important resource nodes in ports close to our capital city. Therefore the "objective" basis to start negotiations with the Brits at least on southern cuba ports (in my opinion they should be the priority since they are close to our capital) do exist.

 

We do not trust Brits since they betrayed us in the past? Ok, then let's trust the fact that we shew them quite well that - for the time being - an "hostile" western cuba would be a thorn in their side because of its a key position in the map (la Habana was called la clave del caribe for a reason!).

 

Tomorrow they will turn on us? Ok, tomorrow we will see how to deal with it. But today we can get something worthy from them. Let's go for a try! That's realpolitik.

 

Just my two cents.

Edited March 17, 2016 by victor

[pepepotamo]

No pienso hablar más en inglés, traducid si os da la gana.

No habrá paz para los que traicionaron un acuerdo de alianza y mintieron sobre como se hizo. Vosotros empezásteis, ahora aguantad y asumid las consecuencias de vuestro error, cualquier barco inglés que veamos será tratado como se merece, convertido en astillas flotantes, no vais a poder dejar de fabricar barcos para suministrarnos diversión y blancos, da igual lo que nos hundáis, siempre estaremos ahí, detrás vuestra. No os dejaremos en paz, así que no habléis de más tratados, ahorrad las mentiras y dedicadselas a otros.

[Alexander Reher]

No pienso hablar más en inglés, traducid si os da la gana.

No habrá paz para los que traicionaron un acuerdo de alianza y mintieron sobre como se hizo. Vosotros empezásteis, ahora aguantad y asumid las consecuencias de vuestro error, cualquier barco inglés que veamos será tratado como se merece, convertido en astillas flotantes, no vais a poder dejar de fabricar barcos para suministrarnos diversión y blancos, da igual lo que nos hundáis, siempre estaremos ahí, detrás vuestra. No os dejaremos en paz, así que no habléis de más tratados, ahorrad las mentiras y dedicadselas a otros.

 

Pepe, that alliance was "betrayed" before there was any type of unification in the British faction and yet you STILL hold that panama grudge from about 3 weeks ago. In Panama we learned our first fighting experiences from the prowess of the RAE and respected you for it. But you keep holding on that grudge, wanting war and keep sabotaging everyone else for selfish reasons. STOP KILLING YOUR OWN NATIONS PLAYERBASE! Please! First you screwed up the US talks and has since sabotaged GB talks. You need to learn the same thing as the British clans right now and that is there will ALWAYS be clans not agreeing with other over peace, alliances etc and will attack the faction you have agreements with regardless, until there is a nation diplomacy tool in-game. Though shit, deal with it, we all need to stop holding grudges over the clans doing it, Great Britain too.

[Llewellyn Jones RN]

Seeing as Pepe cannot be bothered

I will not speak more English , traducid if you feel like it.

There will be no peace for those who betrayed an alliance agreement and lied about as done . You began now Hold on and assume the consequences of your mistake , any British ship we see will be treated as it deserves , become floating chips , you are not going to be able to stop making ships to provide us fun and white , no matter what hundáis us , we will always be there, behind yours. Do not leave you alone , so do not talk more treaties, ahorrad dedicadselas lies and others.

[Don Alonso]

Only reason that you offers a peace traty with Spain now, is because you have earned too enemies, and you need desesperately the fleets that we destroy every night in Mantua, to fight in other fronts, where you are being, at the moment, defeated. That would be a good beginning to talk, if we can trust that you can hold your word, but last two months are really difficult to be forgotten. I don't envy brit or spanish diplomats.

[Vernon Merrill]

I get a kick out of Spain talking big still...   Not because of anything THEY did, but because they are being allowed to nibble at heels.  And that's only because they got their asses bailed out.

[Jonathan Arlington]

This will be my last posts in this topic.

After all I'm just a spanish carebear speaking for himself. But I have a certain experience in RvR diplomacy in MMORPGs.

Personally I learnt not to trust anybody and to trust everybody at the same time. Diplomacy is not about trust, rather about mutual interest and balance of power. It's called realpolitik for a reason.

So let's analize the situation with a realpolitik POV:

1) for a little - but "combative" and proud - faction like Spain the main goal is to regain quickly sufficient towns and resources to have it's own place in the map and to self mantain its economy;

2) the Timers of Ports prevent us to be as effective as we could be in re-conquering ports (this is a flawed mechanic in my opinion, but that's it)

3) Now it's the best moment for Spain to negotiate a deal with someone, since there's a "big" war going on between "big fishes".

Problem is: who we shoud deal with in order to gain more: The Brits? The Danes/french? The US? The pastafarians?

Of course it's up to spanish diplomats and/or clan leaders to decide what to do (I'm just a spanish trader and carebear, so my opinion does not count as much here), but let me tell you one thing: as a matter of facts - on one hand - now Brits are in a much weaker position than before (as lobogris noted, they have to face the Danes and the French offensive in the south and we've beaten them out of the water for four days in a row in Mantua showing them that we are not an easy prey as they may have thought) and - on the other hand - Brits have actually to give us something worthy that other factions - at least now - cannot give us: the control of a number of important resource nodes in ports close to our capital city. Therefore the "objective" basis to start negotiations with the Brits at least on southern cuba ports (in my opinion they should be the priority since they are close to our capital) do exist.

We do not trust Brits since they betrayed us in the past? Ok, then let's trust the fact that we shew them quite well that - for the time being - an "hostile" western cuba would be a thorn in their side because of its a key position in the map (la Habana was called la clave del caribe for a reason!).

Tomorrow they will turn on us? Ok, tomorrow we will see how to deal with it. But today we can get something worthy from them. Let's go for a try! That's realpolitik.

Just my two cents.

And another mate I invite to glas of scotch on the table of sence and nobility. I welcome your words, Sir.

[Prince of Whales]

We do not trust Brits since they betrayed us in the past? Ok, then let's trust the fact that we shew them quite well that - for the time being - an "hostile" western cuba would be a thorn in their side because of its a key position in the map (la Habana was called la clave del caribe for a reason!).

 

Tomorrow they will turn on us? Ok, tomorrow we will see how to deal with it. But today we can get something worthy from them. Let's go for a try! That's realpolitik.

 

Just my two cents.

Victor - I like your analysis.  We British are well aware of how annoying the Spanish can be when you are at war with us.  I sincerely hope that a lasting peace can be achieved.  That said... try a Realpolitik evaluation of the situation from the British perspective.  We also have a lot to gain from peace with the Spanish.  We need all our ships to the East and the South, not up north fighting you.  BUT - at this time, if Spain continues to fight us you have very limited targets to attack, making defense easy.  Once we start returning ports to you, that strong defensive position is gone, and any betrayal becomes far more harmful to the British.  We remember previous betrayals by the Spanish: unreasonable demands, impossible timetables, and attempts to take by force what would have been freely given with a little more patience.

 

Were I a British diplomat attempting a fresh round of negotiations, I would want some demonstration that Spain can be trusted prior to returning ports.  And if I were a Spanish diplomat, I would expect the same from Britain.  For example, let us say that Spain and Britain agree to the return of all ports on Southern Cuba - AFTER a cease-fire period of 2 days.  British proof of good intent would be changing the defense timer on one port to a window that the Spanish can attack, while Spanish proof of good intent would be waiting to take that port until the agreed-upon cease fire is complete.  BOTH sides must demonstrate good will and true faith in small ways prior to any large sweeping agreements can be honored.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Prince of Whales

[Captain Alexander]

Remember that for each day Spain is with just 5 ports, player base dropping down dramastically. Don't just think about yourself and leave our ego outside and think about your nation you are playing 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Captain Alexander

[deltonos]

 And that's only because they got their asses bailed out.

 

OK, British want peace. OK.

 

You can star giving back us Gibraltar, for example. And is not my problem you have to pray devs for include Gibraltar as a Port in the freeworld map.

 

Thats my negotiatiion for peace. If you dont like, no problem. Give us all ports in Malvinas (not falklands).

 

Not you like ??? Ok , Rename Old Trafford as "Spanish Football Faction"

 

 

Its not a joke. Not kidding, i´m a total serious man.

 

Happy St Patricks day!

[victor]

And another mate I invite to glas of scotch on the table of sence and nobility. I welcome your words, Sir.

 

Thanks, maybe when (and if) the war ends. After all we are still enemies so would you beg me pardon if I must decline - for now - your invitation..

 

In case, if I'd offer you a cup of Caney carta negra (which is the aged rhum produced nowdays by the former ronera matusalem in Santiago de Cuba) or a tasty dry grappa.

Edited March 17, 2016 by victor

[Alexander Reher]

Only reason that you offers a peace traty with Spain now, is because you have earned too enemies, and you need desesperately the fleets that we destroy every night in Mantua, to fight in other fronts, where you are being, at the moment, defeated. That would be a good beginning to talk, if we can trust that you can hold your word, but last two months are really difficult to be forgotten. I don't envy brit or spanish diplomats.

Again, i don't give a crap about what other nations do in GB waters, i don't mind the fight. This is a problem about Players staying in the game now. The fact that talks with the have been attempted for about 3 weeks, doesn't matter, it's taken too long. The the talks have always been hampered by the RAE doing the what they view as the same as what we did in Panama, betraying them. Also they have been hampered by the British clans viewing the RAE actions the same way RAE is STILL viewing Panama, As betrayal by a fractured nation and because of the apparent fraction refuse to talk.

[victor]

Were I a British diplomat attempting a fresh round of negotiations, I would want some demonstration that Spain can be trusted prior to returning ports.  And if I were a Spanish diplomat, I would expect the same from Britain.  For example, let us say that Spain and Britain agree to the return of all ports on Southern Cuba - AFTER a cease-fire period of 2 days.  British proof of good intent would be changing the defense timer on one port to a window that the Spanish can attack, while Spanish proof of good intent would be waiting to take that port until the agreed-upon cease fire is complete.  BOTH sides must demonstrate good will and true faith in small ways prior to any large sweeping agreements can be honored.

 

And were I a Spanish diplomat I would probably say "ok". But we aren't nothing more than "normal" players. So let's wait and see what happens and, in the meantime, let's enjoy the game.

[Alexander Reher]

OK, British want peace. OK.

 

You can star giving back us Gibraltar, for example. And is not my problem you have to pray devs for include Gibraltar as a Port in the freeworld map.

 

Thats my negotiatiion for peace. If you dont like, no problem. Give us all ports in Malvinas (not falklands).

 

Not you like ??? Ok , Rename Old Trafford as "Spanish Football Faction"

 

 

Its not a joke. Not kidding, i´m a total serious man.

 

Happy St Patricks day!

 

You want Gibraltar? Speak with the Dutch.

[deltonos]

You want Gibraltar? Speak with the Dutch.

No dude... I want to trade directly with the owner, not with intermediate or dealers

[Conde]

Bloody good timing for this so-called "Peace offering"
Brits must've woken up with gnomes in their clothing.

[Bougainville]

I get a kick out of Spain talking big still...   Not because of anything THEY did, but because they are being allowed to nibble at heels.  And that's only because they got their asses bailed out.

 

Each one his own. I, for one, get a kick at Britain frantically trying to have an agreement with the nation it was happy to be stomping all over.

[Jonathan Arlington]

Thanks, maybe when (and if) the war ends. After all we are still enemies so would you beg me pardon if I must decline - for now - your invitation..

In case, if I'd offer you a cup of Caney carta negra (which is the aged rhum produced nowdays by the former ronera matusalem in Santiago de Cuba) or a tasty dry grappa.

This sounds very good, Sir and maybe we could meet at some Free Town Gentlemen-Club to drink some glas in the name of all fallen honourable Captain's of both sides.