Powderhorn Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Buyer Beware! The following players are known to relieve honest captains of their hard-earned materials, leaving them without funds, without ships, and without recourse. Cast shame upon these individuals, and avoid business with them! For players adding in names, please provide screenshots of materials being transferred and/or conversations. Screenshots are ideal. Based on situations, descriptions, and discussions, I will try to keep things as fair as possible for players making the accusation and being put on the list. I am only human, but I will be using my best judgment. I'll strive to keep this up to date as my own pet project, as there are enough other people on the forums providing other valuable services to the community. ---------- PvP1 British LtDean (formerly of TRR clan) VpFalcon (currently of TRR clan) Injuring Mother (currently of TRR clan) Edited March 5, 2016 by Powderhorn 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Linking from the initial thread for VpFalcon and Injuring Mother: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11362-thieves-in-nation/?p=201457 From player KoTiKos Posted 29 February 2016 - 08:17 AM What will you do with unfair players? This is the main question.To the story: I ask some guys (VpFalcon and Injuring Thunder from TRR clan EU 1 PVPserver) to craft me a ship ( Bellona exep), they agree, take all the resources and sent me to ignore list. I waited for a long time for answers, i write several letters through game e-mails - fully ignore. Screenshots of conv:VpFalcon - http://images.akamai...8794490C3C1A00/Injuring Thunder - http://images.akamai...DC76682B2AEBF1/ Linking from the thread on LtDean: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11574-scammer-pvp-1-trr-member/?p=205649 Stealthems, on 04 Mar 2016 - 7:32 PM, said: Hey recently I hit commodore and wanted someone to build me a ST Pavel and I was approached by someone who said he could do so, down below is all the screenshots I have of our conversation and the trading taken place. It took me several hours to gather the materials as well as a lot of gold buying them I knew the risk but I thought I could trust someone whom our clans have diplomatic agreements with, guess I was wrong. Ive heard nothing can be done and from looking at the other scam post nothing will be done but atleast go away with a warning that it does happen even on friendly clans and such. Edit-He is no longer TRR So dont give them grief He then goes onto advertise this in Britain chat: http://imgur.com/1IEi0Fk (Screenshots from this one were unable to be quoted over, but are attached in the linked thread. Fixed - IMGUR from stealthems: http://imgur.com/a/tKxRP ) Edited March 5, 2016 by Powderhorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cossack Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I think admins should force switch these sort of players to the Pirate faction where i think such things would be expected. You wouldn't have a serving British captain do something on this scale and get away with it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Alexander Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) VpFalcon still in that clan. TRR clan is known for scamming and stealing from fellow British sailors Edited March 5, 2016 by Captain Alexander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Send it to the tribunal, the devs have stated pretty clearly that this isn't Eve and they wont tolerate things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajffighter86 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) This cracks me up. Not every pirate flies the black flag it seems. Edited March 5, 2016 by ajffighter86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalakithSkadi Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Send it to the tribunal, the devs have stated pretty clearly that this isn't Eve and they wont tolerate things like this. Dev's already said it isn't a tribunal issue. Henry d'Esterre Darby Admiralty Herald Moderators 3,680 posts LocationHMS Spencer, Off Gibraltar Posted 01 March 2016 - 03:10 PM Thank you. Currently, there are no rules against this activity, and attempting to enforce any rules would be far too draining on resources. The official word at this time is that players should be careful who they are doing business with, and only give materials/money up front to those they trust completely. There might be a feature or two in the future that will help to punish this kind of behavior, however, this is not possible currently. Scamming in this matter, while frowned upon, is not a tribunal offense. Caveat emptor. Case dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Doesn't make sense to me, as a direct quote from Admin when talking about players damaging friendlies a few weeks ago was something like "This isn't eve, conduct unbecoming of a navy sailor will be punished". Scamming fellow captains out of materials when you were supposed to be providing that captain with a ship to fight his nations enemies doesn't really seem like something the navy would have been ok with. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spam Hands Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 As a new player it would also be nice to see a listing of known reliable and trustworthy crafters running parallel to the list of scammers. This might make it easier for players to find a trustworthy shipbuilder and marginalise the scammers. It would incentivise gaining a trustworthy reputation for a crafter. What do the TRR clan leadership have to say. In a vacuum of information it is not unreasonable to group the entire clan into the category of 'untrustworthy scammers' until they explain their stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajffighter86 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Even when pirates crafted ships for each other, we asked for collateral before just handing over the materials. Come on now. Edited March 5, 2016 by ajffighter86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo van Grojt Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 LtDean come find me to collect your bounty for successfully interrupting commerce in the British colonies 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tindahbawx Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Nationals who scam should be moved to the Pirate faction, otherwise how would any of the people they have wronged get their satisfaction? They cannot shoot them, given that green-on-green combat is forbidden. Why should you not be able to shoot someone who has slighted you and taken your wallet? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderhorn Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 A parralel list of trustworthy dealers is a good idea. For those who want to list sorts that are trustworthy and do business outside of their clan, I would just ask for two references, not from the same clan, before I list them as "trustworthy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealthems Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Powder here is the imgur link for the screenshots in my thread if you want it : http://imgur.com/a/tKxRP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Gaming Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 As a new player it would also be nice to see a listing of known reliable and trustworthy crafters running parallel to the list of scammers. This might make it easier for players to find a trustworthy shipbuilder and marginalise the scammers. It would incentivise gaining a trustworthy reputation for a crafter. What do the TRR clan leadership have to say. In a vacuum of information it is not unreasonable to group the entire clan into the category of 'untrustworthy scammers' until they explain their stance. Don't you dare tar all of us with the same brush, just because some individuals of the clan have scammed, doesn't mean we are all scammers. I myself for example, yes i am TRR & Yes i craft but i tend to sell ships on the market. Also, only being a level 27 crafter, i cannot craft more than frigates atm. However the two people ive crafted Exceptional Cerberus's for were very happy with their ships. Actions of individuals are actions of individuals alone. Ill also have you guys know that TRR also defends alot of ports and assist the other British clans when possible. If we cared not for the nation, then we just wouldn't bother defending it, would we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyspa Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Don't you dare tar all of us with the same brush, just because some individuals of the clan have scammed, doesn't mean we are all scammers. I myself for example, yes i am TRR & Yes i craft but i tend to sell ships on the market. Also, only being a level 27 crafter, i cannot craft more than frigates atm. However the two people ive crafted Exceptional Cerberus's for were very happy with their ships. Actions of individuals are actions of individuals alone. Ill also have you guys know that TRR also defends alot of ports and assist the other British clans when possible. If we cared not for the nation, then we just wouldn't bother defending it, would we? While it is not responsibility of single person it is responsibility of any organisation (in this case guild). Behawior of that type influences image of any group. That is why political parties and companies are often getting rid of bad apples, to save they image. TRR as a organisation should punish their members for such behavior and try to get things straight with people scammed. Question is if TRR will do anything about it, if they do nothing, they will be labeled as scammers and rightfully so. Edited March 5, 2016 by Wyspa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyTortoise Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 If only this post came up about 3 hours before it did. Traded all my Materials for a Trincomalee to LtDean ( after i searched for his name in mess like this and nothing came up sadly.) This was my first experience with any crafter in the game since i prefer to craft my own ships but when the blueprint is rare to find you need to take a chance. Needless to say i lost everything and I'm now flat broke. I hope something will be done about this matter either by the Devs or by TRR as a clan. This has been a very valuable experience for me and hopefully it will be a lot harder to scam me in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cossack Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Don't you dare tar all of us with the same brush, just because some individuals of the clan have scammed, doesn't mean we are all scammers. I myself for example, yes i am TRR & Yes i craft but i tend to sell ships on the market. Also, only being a level 27 crafter, i cannot craft more than frigates atm. However the two people ive crafted Exceptional Cerberus's for were very happy with their ships. Actions of individuals are actions of individuals alone. Ill also have you guys know that TRR also defends alot of ports and assist the other British clans when possible. If we cared not for the nation, then we just wouldn't bother defending it, would we? Doesn't quite work like that i'm afraid. If your leadership doesn't kick such members then that sends a strong message to someone like me not to trust any member of said clan when it comes to handing over materials/funds. Innocent or not, you choose to affiliate your self with such scammers then you too must expect that many people will not want to do business with you. It's nothing personal, but if i see a couple of members from the same clan start scamming members of their own nation with no action being taken by their clans leadership then i have no interest in trading with it's members. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratline Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) So these guys are trolling Brit chat, winding up the people they've stolen from and there is absolutely no recourse which is what is lame... and they know it. Weak of the devs to do nothing if they can't provide a mechanic to resolve such an issue through player actions. And yeah, won't touch TRR or anything to do with them with a barge pole with such members. GL to the rest of you and your rep, don't get salty with us about it, speak to your leadership. Not .elped by TRR members stating how entertaining they find the drama this caused in chat. Nice bunch, Edited March 6, 2016 by Ratline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spam Hands Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Doesn't quite work like that i'm afraid. If your leadership doesn't kick such members then that sends a strong message to someone like me not to trust any member of said clan when it comes to handing over materials/funds. Innocent or not, you choose to affiliate your self with such scammers then you too must expect that many people will not want to do business with you. It's nothing personal, but if i see a couple of members from the same clan start scamming members of their own nation with no action being taken by their clans leadership then i have no interest in trading with it's members. Agreed. Lt Dean and Injuring Thunder are associated with the TRR clan. Their scamming activities are implicitly associated with this clan unless the clan distances themselves from the scurvy barnacle sucking scammers. Until the TRR clan delivers a statement about these members, then it is a fair response for all users to be wary of all players within the TRR group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Doesn't make sense to me, as a direct quote from Admin when talking about players damaging friendlies a few weeks ago was something like "This isn't eve, conduct unbecoming of a navy sailor will be punished". Scamming fellow captains out of materials when you were supposed to be providing that captain with a ship to fight his nations enemies doesn't really seem like something the navy would have been ok with. The question is time required to solve those cases. If we solve them we stop working. We are ok doing it after release but right now it is impossible. Main reason again is potential for fabrication of evidence and time required to cross check all trades. Imagine if someone reports you for scamming and i am sure your logs contain couple of trades where you accepted the resources without paying anything. We need to manually check all those trades and other trades too. For example You take resources from someone You give him a pavel After that trade that someone reports you for scamming (just because he is a jerk). Providing the logs of you taking the resources and not telling us about you giving him back a pavel. Are we going to contact you? Where? What if you are offline? Do we keep track of you coming back? Or we ban you just based on the report? Or turn pirate. What if you took resources and got sick. internet failure. We ban you ? or turn pirate? How do we know about the pavel? Shall we search all your logs now? You come back and we investigate again and.. spend more hours. Basically hours of work and lots of back and forth required to solve even one issue best advice - DONT TRUST ANYONE. Bounty systems might alleviate this in the future somewhat. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratline Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) How about a contract system which would allow mats to be traded for collateral which could be held in escrow? Might be a little complicated to do, but would then mean you can wash your hands of the whole thing and provide us the tools to deal with it. Bounties aren't the way to go in my opinion, way too easy to use as a griefing tool and those with bounties will just let their mates farm them. Edited March 6, 2016 by Ratline 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalakithSkadi Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Agreed. Lt Dean and Injuring Thunder are associated with the TRR clan. Their scamming activities are implicitly associated with this clan unless the clan distances themselves from the scurvy barnacle sucking scammers. Until the TRR clan delivers a statement about these members, then it is a fair response for all users to be wary of all players within the TRR group. The fact LtDean isn't in the clan any more should be obvious enough as to how it got responded to. Edited March 6, 2016 by MalakithSkadi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spam Hands Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 The fact LtDean isn't in the clan any more should be obvious enough as to how it got responded to. It shows how the TRR clan responded to LtDean. It does not show how the TRR clan responded to the other scammer traders named by the opening poster, namely VpFalcon and Injuring Mother. Perhaps you will clear this up and then people will be less likely to view the entire clan as untrustworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalakithSkadi Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 After the first incident they were spoken to, as was the entire clan, that further attempts at scamming would be dealt with swiftly. Unless you have further proof of it occurring since that initial warning was given out no further action will be taken against them. The affected parties haven't attempted to contact me or them for restitution and I refuse to operate a first strike and out policy on topics that are essentially "new" issues (hence the first two are still in clan). Also for the love of god, it isn't "Injuring Mother" at least read the evidence if you are going to jump on a hate bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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