Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

[PVP 1] French and Dutch : Successful Talks and Non Aggression Treaty


DarkJip

Recommended Posts

Would it not be more appropriate for the PFK to join the pirate nation now? They certainly do not seem to be aligned politically with the majority of the Dutch nation and would undoubtedly get much more PVP that way... In fact I think politically aligned is too soft a word - the Dutch captains I know would even readily sail with Frenchman against these rogues.

'PFK angry that financial investiture in the east against the French now worthless after treaty' > They waste millions on a doomed-to-fail attack on Puerto de Espagne and St Louis

'PFK wants more PVP' = Tries to fool the French into sailing north so they can attempt to take Puerto de Espagne unopposed

Tow the line, or walk the plank.

Must have been in the fine print when we joined the PVP server. Thou must follow "popular" opinion.

:)

Good on PFK for playing their game.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would it not be more appropriate for the PFK to join the pirate nation now? They certainly do not seem to be aligned politically with the majority of the Dutch nation and would undoubtedly get much more PVP that way... In fact I think politically aligned is too soft a word - the Dutch captains I know would even readily sail with Frenchman against these rogues.

 

'PFK angry that financial investiture in the east against the French now worthless after treaty' > They waste millions on a doomed-to-fail attack on Puerto de Espagne and St Louis

'PFK wants more PVP'  = Tries to fool the French into sailing north so they can attempt to take Puerto de Espagne unopposed

 

To Mister Martin Tyler and the (other) so named Patriots.

 

The PFK joining the pirate nation? of course not! They are not the traitors of the United Provinces. The Polish privateers are very loyal to the Prince of Orange. That can't be said regarding the so named Dutch Patriot Party, since short clearly proven to be pro French, lead by Joan van der Capellen tot den Dol and other revolutionair scum. Let the brave Polish privateers with the other still loyal privateers prevents in the Caribbean what has been recently happen in our European homeland, now as the Batavian Republic in fact a French puppetstate. For God, Orange and our loyal Polish friends.. hooray, hooray, hooray!

Edited by Swieb
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To Mister Martin Tyler and the (other) so named Patriots.

 

The PFK joining the pirate nation? of course not! They are not the traitors of the United Provinces. The Polish privateers are very loyal to the Prince of Orange. That can't be said regarding the so named Dutch Patriot Party, since short clearly proven to be pro French, lead by Joan van der Capellen tot den Dol and other revolutionair scum. Let the brave Polish privateers with the other still loyal privateers prevents in the Caribbean what has been recently happen in our European homeland, now as the Batavian Republic in fact a French puppetstate. For God, Orange and our loyal Polish friends.. hooray, hooray, hooray!

Lol thats funny and so so true btw:P

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Orangists versus Republicans, protestants versus catholics, French Batavians versus Northern Cheese Heads, Friezen versus Groningers, even our famed Holland is divided in a North Holland and a South Holland. We can’t even decide which city should be our main city, so we gave The Hague our government, Amsterdam our capitol status and made Rotterdam our biggest port.

 

Our fine Dutch nation has a tradition of being a cesspool  of contradiction, of opposition and compromises. A pit of independent Factions all with their own agenda. It is what defines freedom. It is what defines us.

 

See the Dutch nation as a Hydra, some heads may sing to you, one head may lick you, one head can roar at you and one of the heads may bite you. But tickle the body of a Hydra too much then beware. Beware that those heads can quickly turn in full unity to chew on you 'till the white of bone is visible to expose your sins.

 

The treaty is what it is and all parties involved are fully aware of the details, and accept this with all the consequenses in awareness of who upholds and adheres to what. What is there more to say? If you cannot deal with our heads individually you’d better not tickle the body.

 

Carry on PFK, you are one of our bravest and most respected heads!

 

edit: spellzzz

Edited by Lytse Pier
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes - it would be much better to totally wipe them out. It's just unfortunate that they get to keep their capitals :( Otherwise you could force every single Swedish and French player away from the game for good leaving yourselves a huge PvE area in the east and 500 or so less players to fight for slots when you want to connect to the game.

 

Before someone plays the "But we need to let the devs see that it's not working right at the moment and see this through to the bitter end!" card, a short and sweet version of the game you would create for yourselves if nobody was prepared to talk:

 

1. Wipe nation

2. Wiped nation players leave

3. No players to fight against

4. But you won your virtual internet war I suppose! \o/

 

Don't make the mistake of assuming the devs are fools - anyone can see that the mechanics are not working.

 

What a ridiculous mis-representation of the argument. Congratulations for following the path laid out by so many already.

 

"OMG if we flatten the French they'll all quit and then it'll be a PvE game!" We're here to test this game, plain and simple. If France becomes unplayable for a portion of the player-base then they are testing out the various methods available to them for finding gameplay elsewhere: take advantage of keeping your XP while rerolling; going pirate; etc. If they up and quit the game entirely then they clearly weren't here to test in the first place, or perhaps have realised that the PvE server is more to their liking and are currently playing there, or are currently on a different PvP server. Who knows? Otherwise they end up playing in a different faction elsewhere on the map and you can find and fight them once more, or perhaps they will find you instead.

 

I won't reiterate my entire other post, but yes, we are here to test. That is our purpose in this game at this time. And yes, we need to see how broken a system is in order to properly fix it. Have you ever done home renovations? Have you ever seen how quickly "I'm going to replace my cupboards" turns into "well, with those down, I can see how banged up the drywall back here is" which becomes "wow, the insulation in this wall is somewhat lacking" and soon turns into "Jesus, is this a hole behind my siding?!" Problems lead into other problems, and we're here to help find and expose them. As for having paid for this yes, I don't know when paying to enter a beta/early access title became the norm.. it was sometime in the last 5 years, afaik.. but it is now. It has the added benefit of providing early income to the development team as well, which I suspect is why it's become so common. The fact that you paid to play this doesn't change the fact that we're still playing it to test it.

 

Honestly, I'm so very tired of "sweet Jesus, won't somebody think of our PORTS?! We can't lose ALL of them or ALL of the players will quit FOREVER OH MY GOD" Speaking in hyperbole like this does nothing to support one's argument. It merely makes you appear unrealistic.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I won't reiterate my entire other post, but yes, we are here to test. 

 
We are here to play, not to test. Game as game is still in alpha, but alpha tests ends when game went on steam platform.
 
You failed and this is the truth, don't hide your mistakes under alpha tests and broken game mechanics. Game in current statement is exactly the same for all, so if you lose you lose only because of yours community was weak.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 
We are here to play, not to test. Game as game is still in alpha, but alpha tests ends when game went on steam platform.
 
You failed and this is the truth, don't hide your mistakes under alpha tests and broken game mechanics. Game in current statement is exactly the same for all, so if you lose you lose only because of yours community was weak.

 

 

Thank you, I needed this laugh. I was among the first to congratulate the Dutch and Dane-Norwegian factions for coordinating a smart campaign and smashing us. I've also been roundly condemned by fair-weather friends for wanting to continue fighting. You need to actually pay attention and work on your reading comprehension before you start wildly lashing out.

 

No, we ARE here to test. "alpha tests ends when game went on steam platform" you're exactly the type of player I was talking about when I said that not everybody is suited to early access testing. Congratulations: you're the problem. This ranks right up there with the guy in Armoured Warfare that told me that the game was no longer in beta because there wasn't going to be another wipe at launch, and the devs are lying when they say it's still in beta :rolleyes:

 

I'm not "hiding mistakes", I'm pointing them out while encouraging people to continue fighting and playing and testing and not just up and leaving. "Game...is exactly the same for all" no kidding, nobody has ever stated that it isn't. Do you think people here actually believe we're playing different client versions? Get your head out of your ass :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So and now pls tell me why you guys dont take the half from trinidad back? Make a line Puerto de Espana south to Cano Macareo everything east of it stays Dutch the rest French.

 

 

Seeing how we sunk your PIRATE Cerberus this weekend, why do you ask this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cannot but be flabbergasted by such iron fist chest pounding statements. For king and country and bravery and stuff...

Does alone refers to a whole Nation ? Alone as a group of corsairs ? Or alone as a brave captain hitting deep into hostile waters ?

 

Your courage is drawn from rum and from those around you. Have yet to see rats scurrying about in the Republik territorial waters.

 

Alone... that is what will befall your shipping soon all along San Domingo and Jamaica sir. Alone they shall find themselves prized by private venture fearless captains.

 

You empty words do not match your full cargo holds.

 

Your experience may well be that courage is only drawn from rum

 

But others have a deeper resource and it seems that I nor my nation will need to fight alone. Already others are rallying to the Flag of Liberty

 

As for me - I'm already on my way - look for me in those waters where thought you were safe and guard your traders well

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 <..>

 

I won't reiterate my entire other post, but yes, we are here to test. That is our purpose in this game at this time. And yes, we need to see how broken a system is in order to properly fix it. <..> The fact that you paid to play this doesn't change the fact that we're still playing it to test it.

 

Honestly, I'm so very tired of "sweet Jesus, won't somebody think of our PORTS?! We can't lose ALL of them or ALL of the players will quit FOREVER OH MY GOD" Speaking in hyperbole like this does nothing to support one's argument. It merely makes you appear unrealistic.

 

I don't have a problem with relative frequent map wipes to start game testing again. There is for me much unclear in what direction the game developers are thinking while they are observing the game play at the different servers. 
 
There are i.m.o. regarding this game, developed so far, different paths possible do develope the game into several (softer and harder) game versions. Soft almost endless during game play for players who like to keep every nation in the game, but also a bone hard survival of the fittest game version. A temporary, relative short during, game (not more then maximal some months) with an end of the game timer. A type of game in were whole nations can and shall be destroyed and other objectives needs to be reached to score points before the end of the current game round is reached. After that the next game round will start, again from its begin point as the next survival game with for every nation new chances to win or to lose.   
 
As I mentioned before, I like also to play it hard, with no mercy.. with the in war and love is everything fair mentallity. Including, on the role play forum, a lively iron hard role play and psychological warfare too being directed to your game enemies (but never directed to the real person behind the game character) including spreading disinformation, deception, allegation and misleading as allowed game tactics. Thus on one of the PvP servers (especial developed for mature players) a bone hard version of Naval Action diplomacy and war gaming. 
A version of the game being a MMO wargame with some unique elements seen in the relative unknown board game Diplomacy. Info regarding Diplomay see:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomacy_(game) and hahaha, :D also 

http://www.independent.co.uk/extras/puzzles-and-games/treachery-s-the-way-to-win-at-diplomacy-which-makes-it-just-like-the-real-thing-10485417.html 

Edited by Swieb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I don't have a problem with relative frequent map wipes to start game testing again. There is for me much unclear in what direction the game developers are thinking while they are observing the game play at the different servers. 
 
There are i.m.o. regarding this game, developed so far, different paths possible do develope the game into several (softer and harder) game versions. Soft almost endless during game play for players who like to keep every nation in the game, but also a bone hard survival of the fittest game version. A temporary, relative short during, game (not more then maximal some months) with an end of the game timer. A type of game in were whole nations can and shall be destroyed and other objectives needs to be reached to score points before the end of the current game round is reached. After that the next game round will start, again from its begin point as the next survival game with for every nation new chances to win or to lose.   

 

I think that frequent map wipes may be the best way to encourage people to keep the testing nature of our gameplay in mind, so that nobody becomes too attached to their precious in-game possessions and instead can keep perspective on what our goal currently is.

 

I agree that there're are definitely a wide array of directions the game could be taken. I suspect that part of the reason there's so much acrimony here is that, because the game hasn't been defined as "hard core" or "soft core", per se, both camps are hoping that it goes their way and want to insist that anyone else from the opposite camp isn't playing "the right game". Combine that with wildly different ideas of what constitutes "sandbox PvP" and here we are. This is leaving out the general maturity level and ability for people to recognise and separate RP, etc, which is a whole other discussion :rolleyes:

 

I wonder if the best way to alleviate this is with different servers with different rule-sets. I won't go into it too much because that's really not what this (National News) forum is for, but in short: instead of having PvP 1/2/3 and PvE servers, instead perhaps the game should have two PvP servers, each with different levels of gain/loss risk and more or less frequent map resets with their own "win conditions", and then a nice, quiet PvE server aside. Reduce the PvP population in total from 3 to 2 servers and the separate rule-sets would let people play "the game they want", so to speak. If you're scared of losing your little boats and ports and want to play nice and occasionally engage in consensual, balanced PvP without resets then go to server 1. If you want to fight until you can fight no more, damn the odds, or trade under dangerous conditions and enjoy the competitive atmosphere between resets, join server 2, and so on. I'm just spit-balling here, but maybe there's something useable in it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that frequent map wipes may be the best way to encourage people to keep the testing nature of our gameplay in mind, so that nobody becomes too attached to their precious in-game possessions and instead can keep perspective on what our goal currently is.

 

I agree that there're are definitely a wide array of directions the game could be taken. I suspect that part of the reason there's so much acrimony here is that, because the game hasn't been defined as "hard core" or "soft core", per se, both camps are hoping that it goes their way and want to insist that anyone else from the opposite camp isn't playing "the right game". Combine that with wildly different ideas of what constitutes "sandbox PvP" and here we are. This is leaving out the general maturity level and ability for people to recognise and separate RP, etc, which is a whole other discussion :rolleyes:

 

I wonder if the best way to alleviate this is with different servers with different rule-sets. I won't go into it too much because that's really not what this (National News) forum is for, but in short: instead of having PvP 1/2/3 and PvE servers, instead perhaps the game should have two PvP servers, each with different levels of gain/loss risk and more or less frequent map resets with their own "win conditions", and then a nice, quiet PvE server aside. Reduce the PvP population in total from 3 to 2 servers and the separate rule-sets would let people play "the game they want", so to speak. If you're scared of losing your little boats and ports and want to play nice and occasionally engage in consensual, balanced PvP without resets then go to server 1. If you want to fight until you can fight no more, damn the odds, or trade under dangerous conditions and enjoy the competitive atmosphere between resets, join server 2, and so on. I'm just spit-balling here, but maybe there's something useable in it.

 

Dear Francis,

 

There are many ways to cope and deal with what early access, alpha, pre-beta, is. One sees it as a serious task to take responsibility to make the game better, others have motives like seeing if they can break the game, or use certain features that were not intended as is.(Leveling up a certain way was a great example we had).

 

Most people in our clan for example had a great concern that new players login into an early access game they just bought on steam got the wrong impression right away. Most of the time they do not buy the game for reasons to test it, but for whole other reasons. The game is before a grand public in Steam and most will buy the game because it looks simply gorgeous and who wouldn't sail a grand ship of the line like it was something straight from a Hendrick Cornelisz Vroom painting? We heard of quite a few examples of people that were quite confused only having one port and not being able to dock at other ports and gave up on it. It's a bit of an unwelcoming start to a grand game as this, I would say, wouldn't you?

 

Ofcourse one can say: You're a tester, or harden the fck up - this is PvP -,  or Explore the game in a different form,  or roll a a different nation; but that is hard to do for Joe/Julie Average if he/she has not experienced the game yet from his/her own expectations.

 

Our clan leadership presented that case for a wider public and I think there is much to say for that point of view, as many other clans also did from other nations. For record, I talk about it here:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11385-pvp-1-french-and-dutch-successful-talks-and-non-aggression-treaty/?p=202350

 

Of course we also all know that it was a completely different point of view than for example PFK and some other smaller clans had in the Dutch Nation. Also in other nations that completely different view held strong with good arguments for it. But so did our point of view.

 

But that is completely ok. Really.

 

Everyone can look at this unfinished game with his own mindset and motives. It's not a pissing contest in who is right, or what is the best thing to do, it is on how we each, individually or as a group, choose to perceive the game together in all divisiveness. In the end it will run its course either if we steer for port or for starboard on this matter. The Devs always win.  ;)

 

For the record I say something about that also in this thread, here:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11385-pvp-1-french-and-dutch-successful-talks-and-non-aggression-treaty/?p=203486

 

So, having said all that. I agree with your point of view Francis, as much as I agree with the point of view of our clan as much as I agree with the view of, for example, PFK. We all are right in some way about this game and how we can play it now, and knowing that, realizing that we all are pulling and tugging at just one great Boats' Wheel together at the same time, I'm sure we will land somewhere beautiful.

 

To all captains participating in Naval Action: I salute you!

Edited by Lytse Pier
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you sum up my points well and, it seems to me at least, that we are in agreement in general. Many people bought into the game for many reasons, and there are indeed as many approaches to testing as there are hopeful outcomes for the finished product.

 

I quite enjoy early testing and have bought into a great many early access titles because I see a game with an interesting premise and a lot of potential, and I hope to see it become something enjoyable. There are successes, for example I quite like the direction that Space Engineers has taken since getting into it from earliest days; and there are failures: burn in hell, Star Forge, you unplayable, abandoned heap of garbage! I take play-testing as seriously as an unpaid hobbyist ought to, in my view: I hope to enjoy playing the game as I help test it, but I don't expect to enjoy it all the time because it's not a finished game but a work-in-progress. The end-game is that I love the game that results. I run into people all the time that buy early access games thinking it means they just get to play a game early, and end up poisoning the well, so to speak, by then crying out about how bad it is. I find that incredibly frustrating because it makes it more difficult to find people that would do a good job of testing the game, and it makes people less willing to buy it later once it's more polished and complete because these negative views don't just go away (nor should they). These people do not belong in a game that's still in early testing phases, and I think they hurt far more than aid the process.

 

When I say things like "you can reroll" or "you're on a PvP server" I don't do it spitefully. Or at least not usually ;) I say it because, in my view, as a tester you cannot become too attached to what you currently 'have' in the game at any time and instead should bear in mind at all times that your role is to test as many aspects of the game as you can. By rerolling you're not only continuing to test from another perspective, you're also testing the very mechanic that allows you to reroll for whatever reason. I also acknowledge that PvP means very different things to different people, and I wasn't criticising any one view of it; I simply hoped to illustrate for people that are perhaps new to this type of game that people do in fact have different, and perhaps equally valid, views of it and that's okay. That's where my thoughts on different servers having different rule-sets comes from. In MMOs, I come from a gaming background that would be considered "hardcore" PvP and raiding (though I have to laugh at anyone that actually describes playing a computer game as "hardcore" :lol:) and while that appeals to me, I realise it doesn't to others and I'm quite fine with that. As I said above, I suspect that both camps are hoping this game will become one that appeals more to their side, and this is likely where a lot of this acrimony has come from. As you said, in the end it'll be up to the Devs to decide which way the game'll go.

 

As I said above, the other aspect that creates so many hurt feelings around here seems to be the inability for some people to separate the RP nature of this forum (and the game, really) from reality. This leads to personal attacks, ignorant calls of "you're not playing [my game] right" and on and on. These forums exist, in my mind, to allow us more of a "game-y" feature to express ourselves on because we're meant to be testing the game as much as "playing" it, and while it's fun to engage in some RP banter and back-and-forth, when people start taking it personally they need to step away and cool off. Some people around here do a great job of it, some people less so. It's not my call what happens, but that's my opinion on it.

 

What's the fix for all of this? Who knows. I'll stop postulating on that before I get carried away with yet another wall of text, and Grim has to come in here and hassle me for it again. In the meanwhile I've quite enjoyed what I've been a part of so far and I hope to continue doing it with all (or at least most ;)) of the folks around here. Here's to helping, in our own small ways, make a good game great. If I got a little ramble-y I apologise. Kind of. 

 

Cheers!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well i see it this way 

the french attacked us( the dutch and the polish dkf and |voc| ) in the east this evening in open waters 

all 3 rates AND MANY big ships

 

what do you think THEY did ......the das and boat patriots...did they  help their own nation .....No they did not they where all running away in the opposite direction 

thats what i call treason

 

Shame on the people who want to be in that position.

Edited by Thonys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

its the second time you guys attacked the French.. (and failed) and now when you get hunted down you complain about it??? and you want DAS/BOAT to help you??

so far i know most French are following the Treaty with the Dutch so DAS/BOAT has no reason to help you tbh.. 

 

 

you guys wanted PvP and you got it.... we never said that the French are weak... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

its the second time you guys attacked the French.. (and failed) and now when you get hunted down you complain about it??? and you want DAS/BOAT to help you??

so far i know most French are following the Treaty with the Dutch so DAS/BOAT has no reason to help you tbh.. 

 

 

you guys wanted PvP and you got it.... we never said that the French are weak... 

I consider the way how DAS/BOAT allows the come back of the French and Swedish trouble makers as very dangerous for us. DAS/BOAT prevents in fact that in the east a strong defence against the expected British blow towards the east can be build up.   

Edited by Swieb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

its the second time you guys attacked the French.. (and failed) and now when you get hunted down you complain about it??? and you want DAS/BOAT to help you??

so far i know most French are following the Treaty with the Dutch so DAS/BOAT has no reason to help you tbh.. 

 

 

you guys wanted PvP and you got it.... we never said that the French are weak... 

 

here is the proof YOU ATTACKED US voc FIRST

 

(we where there to get some pve traders)

 

suddenly a whole fleet was cumming out of the harbor and taged one of our group members you can see that in the picture 

 

And one of our Ships who went in this battle  and was helping this  captain to get out was sunk by doing so

 

but besides that i thought you had a peace treaty 

to not attack the dutch

 

well you just broke it

 

and i am not complaining just telling the truth

 

PS I Never said you where weak my fellow captain(NICE HAT BY THE WAY) our war lasted 80 years ....and you lost...

post-20320-0-87905100-1456970489_thumb.jpg

Edited by Thonys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

here is the proof YOU ATTACKED US FIRST

 

And one of our 3 rates who went in this battle  and was helping this  captain was sunk by doing so

 

but besides that i thought you had a peace treaty 

to not attack the dutch

 

well you just broke it

 

and i am not complaining just telling the truth

 

 

Didn't you guys buy a flag to attack El Toco?

And doesn't the treaty specifically precises that the area east of Galdonas is for pvp?

Or have I missed something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...