[PVP 1] French and Dutch : Successful Talks and Non Aggression Treaty

[Herminator]

Well. the point of of it was, if PFK wants a war, they are on their own. VIE will not be dragged into a new war on the East started by the Dutch. However we will assist the Dutch if a new war would be started by the French.

Let us be straight foreward, PFK aggresion towards the French weakens the Dutch relationship to Denmark-Norway.

French aggression strengthen it, and at the same time ruins the new founded trust between France and Denmark-Norway.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Herminator

[Matsje van Leeuwenhoek]

Problem with ships below snows are usually sailed by new players and we dont want to start ganking newer players.

 

I never said anything about "ganking newer players" what I said was that OW PvP w/ships of Snow size and smaller can, in my mind, lead to the best environment to cost effective OW PvP action.

 

1) No-one is going to be pissed about losing a Snow, Brig or smaller. Its cheap. Easy to obtain w/either OW captures or purchases.

 

2) Cheap ships allows the crafter to get sales on ships other than the most massive ones. Building 6 Snows a week is alot more effective than 2 Trins.

 

3) OW PvP w/the biggest ships just means its OW PvP w/the biggest ships. Thats it. Period. Everyone will be sailing 3rds. Why would I take my Cerb out when I'm just going to run into a group of 3's? I run into a group of Snows or smaller, what the hell do I care? Its a damn Snow. Its whats generally available to anyone  2week or less in the game.

 

4) Most importantly, Snow and smaller gets the most bang for the buck w/the most people participating. Big ships = end-game, grinders, number crunchers, elitism and the least amount of activity/population. End game = less population, plain and simple. 

 

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Best activity and party atmosphere we had I recall was just shy of 2 weeks ago when there was a call for small fleets to form up and sail east. Best participation too. When we had probably 80% or higher participation of the Dutch getting in anything they could and sailing to Macaraneo/ La Orchilla / Pamp for screening, PB fleet, and to just be a nuisance. TS was buzzing, Nation chat was buzzing, everyone was all happy and having a good time just doing PvP and being an active participant in the outcome of THEIR nation.

 

If you want that kind of buzz being generated not just in-game, but on STEAM and w/those players to their friends list on Steam than make the OW PvP Snows and smaller. You want to tell your friends "Hey, come to NA, its wicked fun, but yeah, well, you're going to have to grind for 3-4 weeks to get into a 3rd rate and get into PvP"?

 

We can all probably name games that require grinding to get "into the shit". Whether or not some/all of those believes are true or not is not important. Its that they are believed to be true. If the best ship is considered the best ship, well, no reason to sail anything else is there? Solo non-clan affiliated players most likely arent going to get involved w/top dog PvP'ing if their best ship, that took them forever in a day to obtain is vulnerable to being sunk. But, if that same player, logs on say, 2 hrs every other nite is only risking a Snow, Brig, 30k ships (atm, they may even get cheaper w/PvP) he's more likely to log in and do stuff.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Matsje van Leeuwenhoek

[icceman]

Situation is more complicated now, for it seams that  not only PFK will not respect agreement with France.

 

List for now:

PFK

VOC and IVOCI

CAP

 

We will speak with all clans in nation and update this list.

 

Many Dutch players have similar opinion to us that DAS/ BOAT was not speak as their representative.

 

The weird situation is that DAS/ BOAT wants to be give everything to French even with taking risk that they will fight alone in future and will lost support of half Dutch nation which had fight with Spanish to get a chance to fight united at one front against France.

Edited March 1, 2016 by icceman

[Gerwin999]

Where is my money in this agreement?

[semTex]

DKF agrees.

 

@Matsje van Leeuwenhoek:

Noone forbids arranged battles between any shiptype. The agreement is that we, the dutch, and the french do not "gank" anything smaller then a snow (which takes no 3 to 4 weeks of grind to sail). Nothing more, nothing less. There is no reason to gank a single cutter or brig with a bunch of frigates or higher.

 

 

To the disagreement of some clans: i keep my opinion internal and will engage this problem internal.

[IronClaw]

Many Dutch players have similar opinion to us that DAS/ BOAT was not speak as their representative.

 

The weird situation is that DAS/ BOAT wants to be give everything to French even with taking risk that they will fight alone in future and will lost support of half Dutch nation which had fight with Spanish to get a chance to fight united at one front against France.

 

Of course DAS/BOAT doesn't speak for any of the other clans or for individual players. DAS/BOAT can only decide for DAS/BOAT. Other clans can only decide for themselves.

If French clans break the treaty with any dutch clans that agreed on the treaty, they will fight. What other clans then decide to do is up to them. 

 

The opposite is also true. DAS/BOAT cannot force others to make peace, others can also not force DAS/BOAT to have war. This should be respected from both sides. Each clan is free to make their own choices.

 

 

Where is my money in this agreement?

 

 

I took it.

Edited March 1, 2016 by IronClaw

[Galileus]

Snip

 

You seem to be very interested in some good fun with smaller ships PvP... if that's the case, please await further developments, as SLMFR is working on something just for your tastes! Insta-PvP, just add water and it's done :3

 

At any rate the progress is slow due to reasons obvious, yet as soon as we have everything ready we'll reach out to look for interested parties

 

9.99 + Taxes.

[KanoFu]

Open PvP in ships smaller or the same size than a Snow? Thats a real fuckup  . If that would be dictated to us i would give shit to the treaty. I mean, smaller than a Trinco, Ok. But a Snow? What will you train with such ships? They are completely different to handle than bigger ships. Players will learn nothing.

[SteelSandwich]

Kano, its says pvp is allowed above a snow, not below.

[Hethwill]

Open PvP in ships smaller or the same size than a Snow? Thats a real fuckup  . If that would be dictated to us i would give shit to the treaty. I mean, smaller than a Trinco, Ok. But a Snow? What will you train with such ships? They are completely different to handle than bigger ships. Players will learn nothing.

 

Hence I was referring to the "the bigger the better syndrome" most players suffer of.

 

Players can learn and will learn from all types of rigs. You force a less savvy new comer into a big ship in a hurry he will be food for the fish in no time.

Really amusing that only 2 in 10 engagements the opponents used manual control to either win position or to even gain wind.

 

So, the best thing to do in the peace time is to actively engage in training sessions and pvp with all rates excluding the cutters.

[Mored]

the really funny fact is, Kano is a swedish player and not part of this agreement

[Lytse Pier]

Napoleon said so himself, in politics stupidity is not a handicap.

 

The thing is that people (even those clans in the Dutch nations opposed to a treaty like this) seem to confuse the intentions of DAS/BOAT for politics. This is not about politics, this is not about our friendships or quarrels, this is about keeping a playable game for all those new Naval Action enthousiasts involved.

 

This is the case the DAS/BOAT leadership presents to all of us. Just a plain perception of what we think is the right thing to do as a group of gamers that love to have good fights. We find no joy in humiliation. Imagine an average Swedish Sven Knackebrot or French Guillame Pierrot seeing a game on Steam with awesome sailingships. Buys the game and finds himself in a one port nation surrounded by Vikings armed to the teeth and funny men with wooden shoes pointing orange painted guns at him in his basic cutter as soon as he presses "SAIL".

 

It is a concern nevertheless that people mistake our support for this proposal as  "leading the Dutch Nation" or the end up with a feeling of exclusion.

 

We must explain it even better to our friends and foes, but also to our brethren what we stand for. A proud clan, with values and integrity. Who will answer any call of friends that need us and we will combat foes until our last cutter sinks together; but we will not be the cause of humiliation, disrespect or disgrace or make this game unplayable for others.

 

Fair enough?

[KanoFu]

Kano, its says pvp is allowed above a snow, not below.

 

Erm... How to use math symbols.   <0 =smaller than zero. (snow)

                                                       >0 =bigger then zero.   (snow)

 

You are welcome.            Edit ( have read it a second an third time, and now i got it. You are right. It means that NOT square rigged ships are smaller than a snow.)

 

 

 

the really funny fact is, Kano is a swedish player and not part of this agreement 

 

 

Pls take a look in the dans vs svedes theads. Not only svedes and danes are posting there.

Edited March 1, 2016 by KanoFu

[Johannes Zoutman]

Best activity and party atmosphere we had I recall was just shy of 2 weeks ago when there was a call for small fleets to form up and sail east. Best participation too. When we had probably 80% or higher participation of the Dutch getting in anything they could and sailing to Macaraneo/ La Orchilla / Pamp for screening, PB fleet, and to just be a nuisance. TS was buzzing, Nation chat was buzzing, everyone was all happy and having a good time just doing PvP and being an active participant in the outcome of THEIR nation.

 

I ran one of those fleets and we went out with 15 ships to sail east. Most of us fresh of the docks in Willemstad. I was jumping down on my seat and hoping I would have led them to the right island and not sail in the wrong direction. Haha! I am getting better at it tho!   I loved the fact how DAS/BOAT leaders jumped in our TS to encourage our efforts and how we hold back a large part of the french fleet. Good times.

 

Less pleased with how this treaty is turning out. It is beyond me why you would let the french faction die out or turn them into bitter enemies. We all seen the two front war was most troublesome for the Dutch. Removing that dagger from our back, as we did the Spanish and Brits in the west, should apply to the east as well. The Brits will be on top of us, or our allies the Danes in a matter of weeks, if not days. A second front pulls to many of our ships away from a future western front. I am sure the Brits are having a laugh now.

 

And then there is the aspect of allowing an enemy to get up and not be bombed back into the stoneage. The Dutch-French War has been alot of fun and our side has won it. Why take an area that makes us overstretch? We couldn't hold it before and had to defend the gap to stop them until the western front was secured. Its too big to defend as it is anyhow. And then their is the best intrest of the game. Sweden and France seem to have lost quite alot players already. Do we really want dead factions in a time where new players are coming in to try out Naval Action?

 

But alas, just a mere second Luitenant here. Good luck to all in the meetings and remember we are one nation. Long live the Republic!

Edited March 1, 2016 by Johannes Zoutman

[Éric]

Congrats to the Danes and their fierce resistance against our coordinated offensives during the last month ! Congrats to the Dutchmen, their British diplomacy and the fun front we've fought on around Margarita Island !

 

Thanks to the people of the Netherlands Antilles who proposed terms that focus on the well-being of the server during this early access.

 

You both deserve that first victory on PvP 1.

 

 

Dutchies, I raise a glass of cognac to our future arranged (?) fights !

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Éric

[Matsje van Leeuwenhoek]

Open PvP in ships smaller or the same size than a Snow? Thats a real fuckup  . If that would be dictated to us i would give shit to the treaty. I mean, smaller than a Trinco, Ok. But a Snow? What will you train with such ships? They are completely different to handle than bigger ships. Players will learn nothing.

 

 

That sound of "shoosh" over your head is you completely missing the point of my post. I'm real unclear how PvP in Snows or smaller is some how a "fuckup". Ofc they handle differently than bigger ships. Thats of zero importance to what I was saying. I think I clearly stated my beliefs as to why smaller ships (Snows, ect) is a decent target area for OW PvP.

 

Trin and lower is WAY to diverse a range. You might as well say "Trins only in OW PvP". Why or in what world, baring bell curve scenarios is a Cerb going to withstand a 1v1 vs a Trin? And you can apply that to every ship up/down to the Trin. The thing w/Snows and lower is that they're relatively even. You can make arguments for each ship in the Snows range.

 

As to the "players learn nothing". Hogwash.  They learn that OW PvP can be fun. Inexpensive. Relatively quick to get into. Populated because well, yeah, they dont have to grind for a month or more.  Imagine playing Call of Duty, Team Fortress, ect ect where you had to grind for a month, 2 months before you get a rifle. Heres a thought, give them instance assess to PvP instead of grinding times and you just might get some action. Besides, my suggestion isnt to "teach players". This isnt a University of Phoenix program. But, I'm thinking my class would have a higher enrollment than yours would.

[Wyspa]

However I can only tell for myself and every PFK player have their own opinion on the topic I think You misunderstood PFK intentions.

We're mainly PvP players, we've joined PvP server because of it, and we want a real fight not some kind of prearranged kindergarden...

 

PFK players range from guys in 3rd rates to guys in Snows or Mercuries and all of them are looking for fight with other players, that is the whole point for why PFK exist.

So main problem of PFK is that with this treaty there is no real war going on, there is no real PvP and with no PvP there is really no point in staying in Dutch nation...

some guys even thinks of reroll because of that, the're looking for a fight, other are thinking of making an expedition, capturing some port far away and fighting with anyone in their way, others will probably haras French with no care to the arrangement.

 

Some of the guys probably just don't trust French to uphold their end of the bargain and are just expecting back-stab from France when the opportunity arrives, that is why the think we should hold France in check...

they would probably be happy with Trynidad region in our hands to have a nice buffor for the time when we will be at war on two fronts once again and they think it is only a matter of time.

 

I understand arguments presented by DAS/BOAT and I understand why you care to maintain some kind of status quo. However at the same time, we're on a PvP server and this is what we've been here to do. Fight other players, capture ports and wage war on each other, if anybody does not like that, they have opportunity to sail on the PvE server instead. 

 

Of course it is just what I think and I'm just a regular in the ranks of PFK . PFK leaders will probably decide on the next steps.

 

And I understand how easy it is now to crush a balance of power with current PB mechanics, however as once i written here:

 

Well in my opinion acting as a firefighter doesn't help much either. Let's be honest here, all people who are calming that the're conquering in the name of pointing out problems with PB are just justifying actions taken in self interest of their nation. However at the same time they're acting just as players would act anyway, that is using game mechanics to their advantage.

It is true that can discurage players on the losing side, but at the same I think we shouldn't just hold hands and be peacefull in the name of the "community".
If anything players acting this way (selfish) should give devs enough data to came up with a solution. More so when the changes will come, acting this way should point out new problems that could arise, encouraging new changes in the process.
To summerise, let players act as players would act, but at the same time don't pretend it is in the name of "grater good"  . It is always about self interest, but it is the way it should be if we want to balance this game.
After all having base of players acting natural is the best way you can playtest things.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Wyspa

[Galileus]

With all due respect - me, personally, I do not misunderstand PFK's intent. I do not care for it, as long as their goal is to wipe the France and suffocate it. And with reasons for that stated as "We won, we won, we won, we won, we won!!!"...

 

It's rich saying you want more PvP, if what you reach for is the end of PvP as well as a nation.

 

Im sorry, Wyspa, as you seem a reasonable and good gentleman, but the higher ups of your team are not presenting themselves as such.

[IronClaw]

However I can only tell for myself and every PFK player have their own opinion on the topic I think You misunderstood PFK intentions.

We're mainly PvP players, we've joined PvP server because of it, and we want a real fight not some kind of prearranged kindergarden...

 

PFK players range from guys in 3rd rates to guys in Snows or Mercuries and all of them are looking for fight with other players, that is the whole point for why PFK exist.

So main problem of PFK is that with this treaty there is no real war going on, there is no real PvP and with no PvP there is really no point in staying in Dutch nation...

 

Just offering an option: How about joining the Dutch allies in their fight? The Danish are fighting the brits in the north, and I think they can use help. No need to change nations or servers, just make an outpost there (I know many Dutch already did) and sail with them. 

Also, continuing the fight against the French would just postpone your "problem". As things were going, it would take a few weeks more before France was reduced to one port and that would have the same result as a peace: no French to fight with. So either way, if you want PVP, you'd have to seek it on a different front sooner or later.

Edited March 1, 2016 by IronClaw

[Johannes Zoutman]

However I can only tell for myself and every PFK player have their own opinion on the topic I think You misunderstood PFK intentions.

We're mainly PvP players, we've joined PvP server because of it, and we want a real fight not some kind of prearranged kindergarden...

 

PFK players range from guys in 3rd rates to guys in Snows or Mercuries and all of them are looking for fight with other players, that is the whole point for why PFK exist.

So main problem of PFK is that with this treaty there is no real war going on, there is no real PvP and with no PvP there is really no point in staying in Dutch nation...

some guys even thinks of reroll because of that, the're looking for a fight, other are thinking of making an expedition, capturing some port far away and fighting with anyone in their way, others will probably haras French with no care to the arrangement.

 

Some of the guys probably just don't trust French to uphold their end of the bargain and are just expecting back-stab from France when the opportunity arrives, that is why the think we should hold France in check...

they would probably be happy with Trynidad region in our hands to have a nice buffor for the time when we will be at war on two fronts once again and they think it is only a matter of time.

 

I understand arguments presented by DAS/BOAT and I understand why you care to maintain some kind of status quo. However at the same time, we're on a PvP server and this is what we've been here to do. Fight other players, capture ports and wage war on each other, if anybody does not like that, they have opportunity to sail on the PvE server instead. 

 

Of course it is just what I think and I'm just a regular in the ranks of PFK . PFK leaders will probably decide on the next steps.

 

And I understand how easy it is now to crush a balance of power with current PB mechanics, however as once i written here:

Talking as a mere second luitenant here but it is not about a status quo. You state you are all PvPers but aren't we all? This is a PvP server. But removing two entire factions who also love PvP by reducing their ability to get ships to be viable in PvP. Once the French and Swedes are dead we turned our eastern region in a PvE zone. And for the backstabbing.. that is something we should find out in the future. I am suprised that as PvPers you don't want to resume our expansion in the West. Where this monster with 90+ port lurks and threatens our allies in the north. All the PvP we can dream off against the biggest faction in the game. Ports to capture by the dozens! Huge fleets! I for one would be thrilled to go up against the british, and that with no french or swedish dagger in our back.

[Hugo van Grojt]

To whomever it may concern

 

As Ruler Surpeme and Ambassadeur Extraordinaire of the Hugo Republic, I, Hugo van Grojt, endorse the Non-Agression Treaty signed between the majority leaders of the Dutch and French realms. Let this treaty be known as the one that fostered friendship, mutual trust and a possibility for future co-existence if not co-operation between the two grand nations.

 

Even though our citizens may continue to call the formidable (and the not so formidable) French captains encountered in battle "fourmi" or "petite grenouille", we continue to have the utmost respect for our French adversaries.

 

But alas, let us not be fools. The Hugo Republic is but a puppet state enduring a harsh life under the wooden boot of the feared Capt Bubbles and the DAS/BOAT hegemony. Hence, do take our stance on diplomatic issues with a grain of salt

 

As a demonstration of our respect for the French captains and the French admirality, Hugo Republic Shipyards (HRS) are now adopting the finest French ship designs and offer ships of the "Renommee" and "Belle Poule" class at discount rates to the citizens of the United Provinces.

 

SIncerely Yours,

 

Hugo van Grojt

[Hethwill]

The West is ripe...

 

PFK can establish their own dominion under the Republic.

[Lytse Pier]

Wyspa, it is our common goals that make us formidable, but it is our differences that makes us friends. Don't forget that. Interclan relations are worth a thousand times more than screaming nation chats filled with spais and solo artists in an MMO.

[Lytse Pier]

To whomever it may concern

 

As Ruler Surpeme and Ambassadeur Extraordinaire of the Hugo Republic, I, Hugo van Grojt, endorse the Non-Agression Treaty signed between the majority leaders of the Dutch and French realms. Let this treaty be known as the one that fostered friendship, mutual trust and a possibility for future co-existence if not co-operation between the two grand nations.

 

Even though our citizens may continue to call the formidable (and the not so formidable) French captains encountered in battle "fourmi" or "petite grenouille", we continue to have the utmost respect for our French adversaries.

 

But alas, let us not be fools. The Hugo Republic is but a puppet state enduring a harsh life under the wooden boot of the feared Capt Bubbles and the DAS/BOAT hegemony. Hence, do take our stance on diplomatic issues with a grain of salt

 

As a demonstration of our respect for the French captains and the French admirality, Hugo Republic Shipyards (HRS) are now adopting the finest French ship designs and offer ships of the "Renommee" and "Belle Poule" class at discount rates to the citizens of the United Provinces.

 

SIncerely Yours,

 

Hugo van Grojt

 

We'd swallow *anything* you give us with a discount, Hugo!

 

edit: your post still has me laughing.

edit2: and your forum avatar makes it even better!

Edited March 1, 2016 by Lytse Pier

[marcmb]

The french started this by taking dutch ports south of saint george. Dutch should get back all continental ports including el toco, naparima, puerto de espanya guyanagyan. Anything less is unacceptable.