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Conquest Flags

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Hello!

 

I'd once more like to raise the topic of Conquest Flags / Port Battles being broken, and perhaps I might actually be recieved with open ears this time with no accusations of bias as the shoe is on the other foot.

 

port_battes11111.png

 

 

This, Ladies and Gentlemen, is a broken mechanic.  A Nation's wealth and territory should not be absolutely devestated on the events of a single night.  Conquest flags need to cost significantly more than they do at present. There needs to be some sort of limit to prevent this from happening. And more end game content to fill the gap less frequent port battles will create.

 

Kind Regards

 

Monkey

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i say an exponential rise of price per flag  over a 24 hour period so that continuous captures will cost more over a 24h period.   And the price will drop slowly every day but not all the way unless the original ports of said nation were captured.  

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Price is bad choice. Gold havent personal bound and it means brits, pirates and usa zerg will rush often than minor nation like danemark or sweden. Population means money. Resources in 100500 ports just free taken by gbr means money too

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It's your second topic for this problem !

 

 

The Developer Reply is the same : tumblr_m5qkf6zVyQ1r67dkio1_500.gif

 

 

/humor dev plzzzzz

Edited by cpt Terenor
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Price is bad choice. Gold havent personal bound and it means brits, pirates and usa zerg will rush often than minor nation like danemark or sweden. Population means money. Resources in 100500 ports just free taken by gbr means money too

Then add in the option where the size of a nation can put a % price on flag due to their population and/or nation size and smaller nation prices drop in price.

Edited by Capt. Rice

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Hear this man, he tried to argue for this problem before and he got shuffled underneathed flawed and biased arguments. Regardless of nation gents, we have seen it happening to the Spanish/ Danish/ Swedes/ French and other nations on a smaller scale.

 

Temp solution till the PB gets reworked / balanced:  Hard cap on conquered ports per week/day. i.e. a nation can conquer 5 ports a week succesfully.

 

solutions, no finger pointing gents, together we can do this.

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Hear this man, he tried to argue for this problem before and he got shuffled underneathed flawed and biased arguments. Regardless of nation gents, we have seen it happening to the Spanish/ Danish/ Swedes/ French and other nations on a smaller scale.

 

Temp solution till the PB gets reworked / balanced:  Hard cap on conquered ports per week/day. i.e. a nation can conquer 5 ports a week succesfully.

 

solutions, no finger pointing gents, together we can do this.

I like this, but I would change it to a net of 5 ports a week.

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I agree, the danes have taken 12 ports so far. Flag spam like that is almost impossible to defend against. Especially if you lose one of the first battles. 

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Many different systems could be implemented

 

contested zone per port  => pvp and pve on a zone add a percentage of contest for a specific zone. Once you reach a percentage you are able to create a flag for the port attached to this specific zone.

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I agree, the danes have taken 12 ports so far. Flag spam like that is almost impossible to defend against. Especially if you lose one of the first battles. 

Well, danes doesn't attack 7 ports in same time, again. That version is harder to defend against. But as always ppl think about something bad just only it happens with them. Untill now some ppl call it Diplomaty, coordination or alliance, or whatever. Now some of ppl call it flag spam. Looks like we moving somewhere.

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When did we ever attack 7 ports in the same time?

I think at the most we had 3 flags simultaneous. But that was only because one PB was almost ending ;)

 

 

 

 

BTW, steamrolling like this would not happen if the French were organized. Instead they actually had to fight a 2 front war like us the Danish-Norwegians have to do every day!

 

Sometimes you just have to choose the lesser evil, and the French did not do that.
 

 

 

 

And btw. I have a remark to come with that is off topic.

Why does everyone call us for the "DANES"? I bet we are just as many Norwegians in the game as Danes :)
And Norway is a way larger maritime nation than Denmark. So please... Stopp calling us for Danes.

 

Edited by Herminator

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I think the root problem is more that with the current systems Port battle/conquest are just to fast, especially if one side is not able to defend with enought players. Then killing the Towers take only about 15-20 min. Also the hole system lacks in deep, since atm there is no need for logicis of any kind other then to get you players and ships to the right port at the right time.

 

There have been many discussion about the port battle mechnicas since the start and i am sure the dev will come up with some thing better then what we have atm at some point (hopefully in near future)

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What happened last night is a good thing to me, even if we lost most of our ports. Last night we didn't have enough players to face this huge attack.

 

We did the same 2 weeks ago with the dutch on the south, resulting some troubles inside the nation with guilds who left dutch nation.

 

In any case it will help / force devs to think and add some mechanics to avoid this kind of total defeat, to avoid "frustration" and players who left.

 

We need  to think together to a more balanced system, here are some options :

 

-Reduce the window's port attack to one hour, meaning that we don't have to be all the evening in "defense mod", waiting for something that maybe won't happen. I don't wanna be in PB everyday, but last week i didn't have the choice if i wanted to keep french territory safe.

 

-Reduce the number of port that we can attack each day to 2 maximum

-Increase the price of flags

 

Or we need maybe to rethink to all the system to attack a port

 

What are your ideas guys?

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With the last patch you have destroyed the balance of this game. everything was taken last night. swedish nation cant go anywhere anymore. we can not play anymore, because there is no space for us to go to. Im not gonna play this game anymore and many other swedish people neither. Patch back and do a server wipe. Or else the game is lost

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Think there are easy ways to fix the problems with nations rushing through the port battles.

 

1: Significantly increase the armor on the towers(they are way to fast to kill), also increase the port battle timer.

2: Lower the damage of the towers quite a bit, and add heated shots which has a small chance of starting fires(not a big impact but slows things down abit).

3: Add ship rate limits, lets say 2x 1'st rates. 4x 2'nd rates, 8 3'rd rates and the rest of the slots are 4'th or lower, which will also give some variations in the port battles(pretty damn boring when it's 50 3'rds in the port battles) and will require more of the players/teamleaders.

4: Increase the cost a lot to buy the flag, but also increase the reward.

5: Make the alliances through different nation have a larger impact, so if a clan buys a flag, allies to that clan from other nations can join that port battle. will make alliances have a larger impact.

 

Some are my ideas others i have stolen from discussion on the swedish TS.

 

There's are a lot more than can be done but these are some of the points. And yeah i know that the game is not done yet.

And also, i don't care much about what happens on the map, it's going to get wiped anyway. But if the problems are still there when the games goes live, a precious few will choose to play one of minor nations, because they will be stuck at the capital.

 

/Baner

Edited by Baner

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I must confess that I enjoy the sun in Guadelope at the moment. :-) Our dominions have increased a bit since yesterday.

But even if I am a proud danish-norwegian player I admit that something is wrong. Perhaps there should be a limit to the number of PB? Perhaps it should be made more expensive? Perhaps we should have different kind of port battles. Perhaps battles where you conquer a port should take place more seldom and be EXPENSIVE while battles where you do RAIDING should be a more frequent occuring thing?

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I agree that conquest flag buying time limit should be put to the game and flag price should be increased. I also agree with Bane's 1-3 suggestion, some nation most people are reached to massive 3rd rates it is easy to win port battles on those high BR ships. If BR is high, then towers should be difficulty. BR limit is welcome to this game. (25 x 3rd rates is ridiculous)

 

I can understand how this port battle is frustrating for small playerbased nation VS HIGHEST playerbase that have no even chance to defend around a clock. If this is going like this. Small nation playerbase will reduce soon or later.

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For major battles it is NOT ridiculous with 25x3rd rates. Moste major seabattles in the age of sail was between ships of the line. Frigates often participated but not in the lines. They ran errands for the 1st rates, protected the logistitcs and attacked ships left behind. 

It is very realistic with battles in ports with ONLY ships above 3rd rates.

We need more kind of attacks. With more diversified fleets. I would suggest raids where it should be done so there is a need of 4th and 5th rates. For example attack fleeing AI.s/defend fleeing AI:s.

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Conquest Flags must be crafted with material simulating war provisioning, the end of it all.

 

Means the need to have outposts Setup in strategic towns and not only in free towns if you want to craft it.

 

Plus a bit more strain of the national efforts gathering resources and making choices between new ships or new flags.

 

Worth a try during test phase. And please, eliminated the 2 hours timeframe. Make it 6 hours or completely open all the time.

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Solution :

1) Don't change the price of flag. During the time between two maintenance, the first flag is pricex1. The second flag buy get price*3. The third flag you buy is price*5.

=> It will not allow crossteamer to buy flag just to not allow ennemy to buy them or it will lead them in a short time to ruin.

==> it will make a nation not able to buy 10 flag ina day to conquer all the port around in empty waters (neutral ports/weak nation ports)

 

2)  Adding a "Chock system". We get crew chock, we get fire chock, i present you nation chock. When a nation loose 5 portswithout winning one, thei nation is chocked. Diplomacy in european is set up and this nation is peace for a week. It 'can't been attack neither it can't attack ports.

When the nation go out "nation chock" it can attack port again and been attack. If nation is placed in nation chock again, the chock nation is during 2 weeks.

 

It will prevent a bit the survability on nations but anyway, they will be fucked in last time if ennemy want it and nothing can be made exept pve area and this kind of stuff to make small nations survive against a blob


Conquest Flags must be crafted with material simulating war provisioning, the end of it all.

 

Means the need to have outposts Setup in strategic towns and not only in free towns if you want to craft it.

 

Plus a bit more strain of the national efforts gathering resources and making choices between new ships or new flags.

 

Worth a try during test phase. And please, eliminated the 2 hours timeframe. Make it 6 hours or completely open all the time.

If your nation is small and weak, you have hard time to get stuff to build your ship. building flag will harder as you are already in hard situation. In the same way the winning nation has many port and it's easy for it to craft flag so it lead to improve the problem for my perspective

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Yes, I agree with that. That is why the mechanics ruling it must not be separate from all the rest, as they are now. Pay up, flag, horde in.

 

Regarding the weaknesses or strengths, and having been on the wargaming side of things for decades, asymmetrical setups are not a bad thing. It all depends of the rules.

 

If there are National rewards, instead of individual rewards, then things might grow a bit. As it is, and my fellow Dutch Nation captains frogive me, I have no need to be in this or that nation. I can do my stuff with absolutely no consequence to my Nation and from my Nation, all coming down to which colour you like the most amongst other factor of course, but the game gives absolutely nothing back.

 

National rewards for collective effort, new port flag crafting system, group missions, etc. All of that must be linked together and not loose mechanics.

 

It feels sterile.

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Also ;the PB's are boiling down into an arms race , noone can be interested in 25 against 25  firstrate  portbattles ,ATM we are nearly at the 25 against 25 third rate point ,this has multiple downsides;

 

1)It's  boring , just the big elephants slugging away at eachother ,limitng the number of big ships would:A) add more tactical variaty to the PB's ,B) make them harder to succeed AND, C)the biggest plus allow players that started grinding later or cannot  grind 24/7 to get a big ship fast to particepate in PB( and be a valuable asset to the nation/clan ,i will get back to this point).

 

2)It gives a major advantage to the bigger nations with a big playerbase (more powergrinders) and/or ports stacked close together (easier trade/crafting) more and easier to find Ai fleets to "harvest" (again powergrind) so they can field bigger ships much faster the a smaller nation.

 

3)It leaves behind the players that started and the players that do not have the time to spend 24/7 grinding for bigger ships at an exponatial rate .

So even if you start out eager to help your nation and/or clan in portbattles by the 3rd or 4th time you get send away ("your ship is to small only trincomalee's and bigger IN the portbattle") while you just spend 2 hours of your limited game time to get to that port ,you will be frustrated and burnedout to say the least and will not want to particepate in further actions where the chances of beeing left out only increase as time progresses ( as you need exponantially more XP and gold to get  the 3rd,2nd and 1st rates ).

 

just my 0,02$

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I liked the "slots" idea proposed by someone else in another topic. (Sorry for not remembering his name, credits go to him obviously)

Instead of just a flag, a fleet would need to buy slots in a port battle. A slot for a first rate would cost a LOT more than a slot for a 4th rate. Maybe there could even be a limit on the slots for 1st, 2nd, 3rd rates. That would make it:

a: Harder to start a PB (more costly, but also needs more care to put the right type of ships together)

b: More interesting PB's, because of the greater variety of ships in the battle

Edited by IronClaw

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Weird idea...

 

 

Along side raising the cost of the flag perhaps add a resource cost as well.. perhaps gold coins etc...?

 

But I have to say its good these things are happening now, my opinion is that a map reset is imminent, but at the same time it would be pointless without a change to mechanics.

 

Lots of ideas on how to change the mechanics.. which one is the better... is for devs to decide...

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Solution :

1) Don't change the price of flag. During the time between two maintenance, the first flag is pricex1. The second flag buy get price*3. The third flag you buy is price*5.

=> It will not allow crossteamer to buy flag just to not allow ennemy to buy them or it will lead them in a short time to ruin.

==> it will make a nation not able to buy 10 flag ina day to conquer all the port around in empty waters (neutral ports/weak nation ports)

 

I like this idea, it will limit the zerg evenings but still allow some flexibility.

 

However as some also commented, there needs to be a BR limit to avoid 25 vs 25 Santis + Victories in a very near future.

Check out this thread: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11296-deep-water-port-battle-and-br-limit/?p=200116

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