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We need more SOLs

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At the moment it seems 90% of the Naval Action community is in agreement that 1st rates should be extremely rare, expensive and very risky to use. 

 

The reason for that, is because if everyone is in 1st rates, and we have port battles which put 25 1st rates v 25 1st rates, it gets very boring, very fast. That isn't a guess either, that is from several patches ago pre-alpha release.

 

However port battles are very soon going to be 20 Bellonas & 5 Pavels v 22 Bellonas and 3 Pavels.

This will too become a bit tedious, so I'm asking the devs to focus their efforts, and the efforts of all the Ship models hiding in the playerbase to start building, and implementing more 3rd/2nd rates rather than on the smaller ships as SOL Line battles are the soon to be reached end game.  Preferably with the continued style of unique traits and features etc.

 

Kind regards

 

Monkey!

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We got at least 3 coming soon, we got the ingermanland, the bucentaure and the ocean class, so that is 3, i dont know when they come, but we know for a fact that these 3 will come.

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Rather than surrendering to the the coming of an "inevitable" all SOL endgame, why not concentrate efforts on making a game where all ships have a purpose? Personally, I don't want to play SOLs much, if at all. I'm a frigate freak.

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We got at least 3 coming soon, we got the ingermanland, the bucentaure and the ocean class, so that is 3, i dont know when they come, but we know for a fact that these 3 will come.

 

And hopefully Christian VII will be picked in in this years voting and then we'll have a fourth! Yay! ;)

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And hopefully Christian VII will be picked in in this years voting and then we'll have a fourth! Yay! ;)

Rather the Christian VII than the admiraal de ruyter :P id rather have the Dordrecht though :/

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Rather than surrendering to the the coming of an "inevitable" all SOL endgame, why not concentrate efforts on making a game where all ships have a purpose? Personally, I don't want to play SOLs much, if at all. I'm a frigate freak.

 

I appreciate that, I myself love frigates, but at the end of the day, port battles are currently THE endgame of Naval Action.  And the port battles at the moment usually come down to who can pack the biggest ships in there.  If port battles ever implement a capture A or B for points over time, then speed [via frigates] may become useful. But until that time...

Edited by Monkey Bullet
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We got at least 3 coming soon, we got the ingermanland, the bucentaure and the ocean class, so that is 3, i dont know when they come, but we know for a fact that these 3 will come.

 +1.

And with the implementation of lands in battles and shallows, port battles may not be just a matter of Sols.

And NA isn't just about PB.

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I agree that we need more 2nd and 3rd rate ships.

 

However, I think there needs to be a better effort made to give all ship types a useful role in endgame content as well as a sense of progression and deep investment.

 

Right now if you're really into frigates you basically hit the point where there is nowhere else for you to go after about 100 hours, and there won't be anything to spend your money on either. If you're really into ships of the line you're up against a giant wall of grind and upkeep.

 

That just doesn't make any sense from a game design standpoint. You might have an extremely dedicated player who likes brigs who has absolutely nothing to devote themselves to and make their ship competitive and someone who only gets 10 hours a week to play who really likes ships of the line and can't ever have one. 

 

The game isn't serving either of those players or anyone in between well with the current setup, and as long as people think "economy" has to be the only tool in the toolbox it can't be fixed, the game needs to employ all the tools of game design to make this work, not just one.

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We got at least 3 coming soon, we got the ingermanland, the bucentaure and the ocean class, so that is 3, i dont know when they come, but we know for a fact that these 3 will come.

 

Here:

 

4th rates, 50-64 guns: 1 in-game, 2 in development. In-game: Constitution. In development: Ingermanland or unknown 4th rate, unknown 4th rate.

 

3rd rates, 64-80 guns: 2 in-game, 2 in development. In-game: Bellona, 74. In development: Ingermanland or unknown 3rd rate, Le Bucentaure or unknown 3rd rate.

 

2nd rates, 80-100 guns: 1 in-game3 in development. In-game: Saint Paul/Pavel. In development: Le Bucentaure or unknown 2nd rate, unknown 2nd rate, unknown 2nd rate.

 

1st rates, 100-140 guns: 2 in-game, 1 in development. In-game: Victory, Santisima Trinidad. In development: Le Commerce de Marseille (Ocean-class). 

:P

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I think port battles will become very interesting soon :)

 

Land masses are WIP, this means bays, island, but maybe also shallows(?).

Furthermore,with heavier forts being WIP, they will force attacking fleets to carry siege ships.

With the implementation of raids, there might be a need for heavily armed merchants to participate in order to take/carry the loot.

 

If you combine these things it might soon look like:

Attackers 15 SOL's, 3 frigs, 3 siege, 4 merchants.

Defenders 15 SOL's, 10 frigs.

 

The attacker will have to assault/siege the forts, yet needs some frigs to protect the vulnerable ships.

The defender in turn will have the need for maneuverable ships to flank the enemy SOL's, to go after the siege ships.

 

And that would be just the beginning of the diversification.

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I appreciate that, I myself love frigates, but at the end of the day, port battles are currently THE endgame of Naval Action.  And the port battles at the moment usually come down to who can pack the biggest ships in there.  If port battles ever implement a capture A or B for points over time, then speed [via frigates] may become useful. But until that time...

This is why we need to keep shallow water ports viable and needed. As per my suggestion here.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/10471-just-a-suggestion-to-increase-port-battles-and-pvp/#entry186077

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I think port battles will become very interesting soon :)

 

Land masses are WIP, this means bays, island, but maybe also shallows(?).

Furthermore,with heavier forts being WIP, they will force attacking fleets to carry siege ships.

With the implementation of raids, there might be a need for heavily armed merchants to participate in order to take/carry the loot.

 

If you combine these things it might soon look like:

Attackers 15 SOL's, 3 frigs, 3 siege, 4 merchants.

Defenders 15 SOL's, 10 frigs.

 

The attacker will have to assault/siege the forts, yet needs some frigs to protect the vulnerable ships.

The defender in turn will have the need for maneuverable ships to flank the enemy SOL's, to go after the siege ships.

 

And that would be just the beginning of the diversification.

By siege ships, do you mean like the mortar vessels? 

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By siege ships, do you mean like the mortar vessels? 

absolutly not what else could it be?

 

cant wait to rain hell with the Mortar brig on a slow moving sluckish line of firstrates tacking their way through a channel.

the tears shall set the dutch homeland below sealevel for the next 1000 years

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Alright, I've another question, since I know nothing about these kind of craft: Were small vessels (like NA's Mortar Brig and Empire: Total War's Bomb Ketch) the only ones to carry mortars? Or is there a historical precedent for, say, taking the broadside guns out of the top deck (or more specifically, all the open gun positions, where there isn't a deck above to obstruct the upward path of a mortar shot) of a 64-gun SoL, replacing them with mortars, parking that thing parallel to a coastline, and opening fire? Because that would be an awesome thing to have ingame. 

Edited by Arvenski

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they are not really small and have heavy stree from recoil on deck compared to the carros and guns going back and forth

PeQB6pe.png

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Oh, so you really couldn't put that many of them on a big ship, anyway. May as well use small boats for the mortars and leave the bigger ships unhindered to handle the ship-to-ship fighting, since it makes more sense to tie up a few little brigs than one SoL. 

Edited by Arvenski

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Oh, so you really couldn't put that many of them on a big ship, anyway. May as well use small boats for the mortars and leave the bigger ships unhindered to handle the ship-to-ship fighting, since it makes more sense to tie up a few little brigs than one SoL. 

Add to that problems with line of fire - all that rigging on SOLs will be a huge problem for mortar placement. Unless of course you have nothing against shooting your own sails off :P

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as Olav said 3 will join soon the game, but even if they join the game i dout that they will be all used, because right now they are ships who are between two ranks, and some in the same ranks are better than others.

if you will prefer Bellona instead of 3 Rates , and 3 rates instead of constitutions.

you will prefer Santi instead of victory. etc 

so the game will still be 12 santi + 3 pavels+ 10 bello vs 7 santi + 10 pavels +  13 bello.

And when they come if burcentaure > pavels, you won't see any pavels anymore. the same when Ocean class will be ingame.

 

If you want diversity you should give to each SOL Avantages and desavantages to each ships. Give SOL dura, -1 dura  ( 1 for 1st and 2nd, 2 for 3rd rates ) then you will introduce some frigs in battles.

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At the moment it seems 90% of the Naval Action community is in agreement that 1st rates should be extremely rare, expensive and very risky to use. 

 

The reason for that, is because if everyone is in 1st rates, and we have port battles which put 25 1st rates v 25 1st rates, it gets very boring, very fast. That isn't a guess either, that is from several patches ago pre-alpha release.

 

However port battles are very soon going to be 20 Bellonas & 5 Pavels v 22 Bellonas and 3 Pavels.

This will too become a bit tedious, so I'm asking the devs to focus their efforts, and the efforts of all the Ship models hiding in the playerbase to start building, and implementing more 3rd/2nd rates rather than on the smaller ships as SOL Line battles are the soon to be reached end game.  Preferably with the continued style of unique traits and features etc.

 

Kind regards

 

Monkey!

My thought is exactly the same here,

But i have an idea To make PB's more organized, because i don't like to see alot of the same type of ships used in a battle.

Like you said "20 Bellonas & 5 Pavels v 22 Bellonas and 3 Pavels"

First thought;

Every nation has there favorite first rate flagship(s), why not make one/two for ervery nation!?

• Britain - HMS Victory

• España - Santísima Trinidad y Nuestra Señora del Buen Fin

• vereenigde Provinciën - De Zeven Provinciën

Etc. Etc.

And maybe the same for 2nd and 3rd rates?

Now there would be balance problem with one ship outgunning the other, maybe balance itnout with giving the outgunned ship more maneuverability and armor so the historical appearance will not change?

My preference goes to nation locked ship's. (No HMS Victory vs HMS Victory), but thats out of the question, it's infeasible.

Of course i understand that making a 3D model from a historical ship takes time and effort, but for the sake of diversity of the ships ingame it would make this game a masterpiece of a sailing game?!

Second thought for 25 first rates against 25 first rates;

Maybe they could limit the amount of 1st, 2nd and 3rd Rates into a battle?

So a battle looks somehow more realistic?

Now everone can Sail/Craft a 1st rate and (NPC Fleet battles), it wouldn't be fair that only a select group of people wil be able to sail a first rate imo?

But with a PvP battle you must create a defence/attack fleet with the propper ship line up?

Maybe instead of making a group, a PvP or PvE fleet could be created with it's proper ship class limitations?

It's just a thought maybe infeasible, but it's a forum it's open for discussion.

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My thought is exactly the same here,

But i have an idea To make PB's more organized, because i don't like to see alot of the same type of ships used in a battle.

Like you said "20 Bellonas & 5 Pavels v 22 Bellonas and 3 Pavels"

First thought;

Every nation has there favorite first rate flagship(s), why not make one/two for ervery nation!?

• Britain - HMS Victory

• España - Santísima Trinidad y Nuestra Señora del Buen Fin

• vereenigde Provinciën - De Zeven Provinciën

Etc. Etc.

 

While de zeven provincien is a nice ship, she would be severely outmatched by ships like the HMS Victory, the santisima, the Ocean Class. Nations without first rates(danes, dutch, swedish, possibly US) will be at a severe disadvantage and will see great losses, i think how the devs have right now off every ship accessible to every nation.

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Then we need a system max 2-1ts, 4-2st, 5-3rd, 6-4rd, 8-5rd and a PB group so no one that should get got in.

Yes something like this!

While de zeven provincien is a nice ship, she would be severely outmatched by ships like the HMS Victory, the santisima, the Ocean Class. Nations without first rates(danes, dutch, swedish, possibly US) will be at a severe disadvantage and will see great losses, i think how the devs have right now off every ship accessible to every nation.

Yes i was indeed worried they would be severely outmatched.

But maybe with limiting 1st, 2nd and 3rd rates in a battle, you could enter battle with trading a missing 1st rate with 2 x 3rd rates, to balanced it out?

Because it is what it is, not all nations had those monstrous big 1st rates.

And i don't know how historically accurate the Dev's whant NA to be, Otherwise you could add some Fictional 1st rates?

Or just let them be nameless and players could choose the ships name from a pool

Of names (Steelsandwich suggested this magnificent idea earlier) and let is be a let's say "HMS Victory Type ship"?

Edited by Jacob van Heemskerck

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It's not only the 1st,2nd and 3rd rate that need fleshing out we severly miss 64 to 54/50 gun ships  to add more variables to ANY sort of battle (not only PB's.

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