Taralin Snow Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) *Stop attacking non French Trade ships and you won't have an issue. What? The reason we were able to join your battle as Pirates, is because you were fighting British NPCs. when you (a Pirate) attack a British NPC, then any Frenchman that happens by is given the option to "Join As Pirate" or "Join As British", and in our case we chose "Join As Pirate". A similar thing happens if you attack Dutch, Spanish, etc. But if you attack French NPCs, then when a French player tries to join, they will only get the option "Join As France". It is not possible for a French player to join a Pirate vs. France fight as a Pirate, they must join as France or not at all. If a British player wants to join, they will get the option to "Join As Pirate" or "Join As France", and this is a good reason to avoid making multiple nations in the same region angry with you. In summary, if you only attack French ships (players or NPCs, doesn't matter) then the French reinforcements will never be able to join as Pirates, they will be forced to join as French (whom you are then free to shoot at). Edited February 19, 2016 by Taralin Snow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marell Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Again, I don't see what the problem is here. It's not a hard concept to grasp, Taralin Snow seemed to understand it but you Vllad seem to either not realize your exploiting the game or are intentionally avoiding admitting to the fact that your exploiting a game mechanic. 1. I don't want a Pirvate PVE instance, I've said that several times in this thread so I don't know where you get that I want my own pve instance, I would argue that it is you who would rather PVE since you are content only joining battles that I cannot actively attack you. So please read, before you respond. I want to fight you, but I can't and that's the only reason why you join. 2. I know the "prize" is not mine, and it's open to anyone to capture. The problem is as follows: A ) You are joining as a friendly, the purpose of the mechanic is to allow other players to assist. B ) Because of this I am unable to fight you for it, and when I (Others) try to capture it. You simply sink it, and there is NOTHING that can be done because it's Green on Green. 3. I have no problem with 90% of what you guys did the other day, it's all part of the game. What I do have problems with is the fact that you are knowingly exploiting the fact that I am not allowed to fire on you because of Green on Green engagement rules. In summary, if you only attack French ships (players or NPCs, doesn't matter) then the French reinforcements will never be able to join as Pirates, they will be forced to join as French (whom you are then free to shoot at). I see what you mean, but there in lies the problem with the current mechanics. If you want to fight the british, you should join as a THIRD SEPARATE FACTION. Not join as Pirates. Pirates can join your encounters and you can't shoot them. Why would you want to shoot French that join your encounters on your side? Because your the enemy? Edited February 19, 2016 by Captain Marell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bach Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I'm curious. What actually happens if Marell just decides to sink the players cutter? I believe it's just negative xp? or is there something more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marell Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 As it stands, negative XP though apparently it's also against the rules which is why there is literally nothing anyone can do should someone want to follow you around and grief you while your trying to capture ships. (AGAIN, just for clarification since someone doesn't get that I'm not advocating for private instances. I think we should both be able to fight each other not that he shouldn't be allowed to join my battle.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vllad Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 3. I have no problem with 90% of what you guys did the other day, it's all part of the game. What I do have problems with is the fact that you are knowingly exploiting the fact that I am not allowed to fire on you because of Green on Green engagement rules. If I as a Frenchmen jump a Brit and you come along you may enter the battle on either side. If you join on my side you have a problem that you can't shoot me as well? In the same example as above you are saying you don't want to join any side you want to join the Brit/French fight as your own side and shoot both of us? If you and I are both French and I jump a Trader Brig but then you enter my battle and you get to the Brig first. Do you think you should be able to shoot me then? I only ask in order to better understand what you think the parameters should be. Obviously as of right now you can join my team as well. This applies to PVP and PVE fights. However I am trying to understand why the Trader encounter is any different than the other encounters. That is the part I don't understand your complaint on. If your complaint is you should be able to fire on anyone not on your team at anytime I could certainly live with that. However that means changing all of the encounters NOT just the trader encounters. Imagine the can of worms that opens. Now instances could have 80 ships in them from all different teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsilon Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) I have suggested a possible improvement to the game that would address this: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/10854-friendly-players-sinking-the-ship-you-tagged-and-are-capturing/#entry192894 If this were done you could forcibly recategorize us as 'neutral' rather than 'friendly', so you can shoot or ram us without green on green damage, but we would still be able to try to sink or capture the 'enemy' NPCs. of course we would also be able to shoot at you in that case, but you had a much bigger ship so you should be able to defend yourself. I don't think it is a good idea on a PvP server to make open sea battles a safe haven for uninterrupted PvE. If you want that kind of gameplay I really think a PvE server would be a better choice. As it stands, negative XP though apparently it's also against the rules which is why there is literally nothing anyone can do should someone want to follow you around and grief you while your trying to capture ships. (AGAIN, just for clarification since someone doesn't get that I'm not advocating for private instances. I think we should both be able to fight each other not that he shouldn't be allowed to join my battle.) Captain Marell, I suggest we all take this to the post in the suggestion thread that Taralin posted. I don't think anyone here would argue too drastically with how it should work conceptually although as Vllad says there are domino effect issues to consider. The discussion on the if/how/why really belongs there and not here. Edited February 19, 2016 by Arsilon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slamz Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 A ) You are joining as a friendly, the purpose of the mechanic is to allow other players to assist. "Assist" is rather loosely defined here, though, which may be the real problem. We both spot an NPC trader on the seas. We both want to capture it. We are enemies. You tag it first. If I join as an enemy I can't capture the trader because it's "green" now. I must join your team and then I can compete for it. Technically I "assisted" you in getting rid of the trader, I just did so by capturing it myself. For tribunal purposes, I would think that "anything goes" as long as there is no actual green on green damage. If you board it first, I must respect that, and vice-versa. The bottom line may be that trying to attack NPCs is not going to be a good idea if there are enemies (or even mean teammates, but especially enemies) in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marell Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Agreed, though I disagree with Vlad on the domino effect. 80 different teams wouldn't be a factor. It would be a simple matter of france vs British vs pirates. Still though, I stand by the fact that Vllad knowingly abuses this mechanic and thus why my post is here instead of suggestions but I agree the discussion on the mechanic itself should move there. "Assist" is rather loosely defined here, though, which may be the real problem. We both spot an NPC trader on the seas. We both want to capture it. We are enemies. You tag it first. If I join as an enemy I can't capture the trader because it's "green" now. I must join your team and then I can compete for it. Technically I "assisted" you in getting rid of the trader, I just did so by capturing it myself. For tribunal purposes, I would think that "anything goes" as long as there is no actual green on green damage. If you board it first, I must respect that, and vice-versa. The bottom line may be that trying to attack NPCs is not going to be a good idea if there are enemies (or even mean teammates, but especially enemies) in the area. The problem with that is, he's not competing for it. I was about to board a ship and he moved to sink the ship. Other people have reported that they actively sunk the ships they captured AFTER they had already killed the crew. That is griefing, not trying to compete for the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taralin Snow Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 my original suggestion is somewhat buried in a thread in the General forum so it may not get a lot of visibility. I have made a new thread in the Suggestions forum where we may continue the discussion about the mechanics of this feature: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/10904-suggestion-to-address-friendly-player-griefing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrov Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Please close this thread or relocate it to suggestions forums. This not a tribunal case. The issue is that the OP is ok with competing for the Brit trader. But competing should also mean to shoot at the French who decided to come in. Realize that the current mechanics blocks the French from shooting at you as well, so you are on equal terms. Yes I agree the mechanic is somewhat odd and needs fine tuning. To the OP, posting this in the suggestions forums without name calling would have resulted in a much better discussion imo. Why bring this to tribunal? You were solo hunting in enemy contested waters...what did you expect? Edited February 19, 2016 by Petrov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marell Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Already moved discussion to the suggestions forum, and it's not on equal terms since they will sink the ship after you capture it which is why I went to tribunal first. But I am content with moving this to the suggestions forum. Edited February 20, 2016 by Captain Marell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petrov Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Already moved to the suggestions forum, and it's not on equal terms since they will sink the ship after you capture it which is why I went to tribunal first. But I am content with moving this to the suggestions forum. It's still showing in Tribunal for me.... This is not against the current rules, so no tribunal should have been made. I don't think the captured ship is considered "green" by the game unless you take command. But I agree, the mechanic needs some work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marell Posted February 20, 2016 Author Share Posted February 20, 2016 Requesting this thread be locked, discussion moved to suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Locked per OP's request. Case dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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