Marines for extra crew?

[Lenecro]

Hey i've some questions.

 

If i add the marines upgrade it will add crew to my ship but does it work like extra hammock i mean does it affect the ship carateristic?

[OlavDeng2]

It makes your cannon reload time longer, but they are quite good for boarding.

[Powderhorn]

I took a stopwatch to it with an undercrewed Belle Poule. Both sail handling and cannon reload were slower with marines than without.

[Admiral 8Q]

Slower by about how much?

[Reonhato]

I took a stopwatch to it with an undercrewed Belle Poule. Both sail handling and cannon reload were slower with marines than without.

 

It is a common thing for people to say use marines on an undercrewed ship to bring your crew up. However if you look at your crew % when you are on the OS, it does not change, if you have 70% crew before marines, you will have 70% crew after.

[Captain Tylor]

what do marines add to boarding exactly? 

[Sir Texas Sir]

It makes your cannon reload time longer, but they are quite good for boarding.

Which I don't get cause your adding crew not taking away from the current crew.

 

what do marines add to boarding exactly? 

When you attack or even I think the musket round it gives you more damage than if you didn't have them or something.  I have to relook up boarding again.

[Lefort]

what do marines add to boarding exactly? 

firepower and melee bonus and extra bodies, they make a big difference

[Admiral 8Q]

Which I don't get cause your adding crew not taking away from the current crew.

I agree. They shouldn't add or subtract any regular crew duties. They just sit there sharpening their swords and cleaning their muskets waiting for a boarding action.

[Lefort]

I agree. They shouldn't add or subtract any regular crew duties. They just sit there sharpening their swords and cleaning their muskets waiting for a boarding action.

considering they don't detract from the crew they could be considered crowding the decks making it more difficult for the crew to do their job also additional supplies etc. all abstract stuff but fair for them to add some kind of debuff. Although with the way boarding is the 10% reload time is a way much, I mean how often do you come across boarding as  a viable tactic unless you already handedly won the battle

[Admiral 8Q]

considering they don't detract from the crew they could be considered crowding the decks making it more difficult for the crew to do their job also additional supplies etc. all abstract stuff but fair for them to add some kind of debuff. Although with the way boarding is the 10% reload time is a way much, I mean how often do you come across boarding as  a viable tactic unless you already handedly won the battle

What would the marines be doing on the cannon deck(s) anyways. I've been on real ships from that period. (Historical and replicas) If a boarding action was imminent they would rush up to the top deck and prepare. Whether defending or attacking.

If it was implemented as a 'debuff', then perhaps unlike regular crew they shouldn't regenerate. You either have to buy more marines or 'repair' them.

[Lefort]

What would the marines be doing on the cannon deck(s) anyways. I've been on real ships from that period. (Historical and replicas) If a boarding action was imminent they would rush up to the top deck and prepare. Whether defending or attacking.

If it was implemented as a 'debuff', then perhaps unlike regular crew they shouldn't regenerate. You either have to buy more marines or 'repair' them.

I gave multiple reasons and like you said they probably wouldn't be top deck if they weren't in boarding range, at least i wouldn't think they'd want to be. As I said you gotta think abstract from all the additional supplies it would take causing overcrowding making it harder to get to the magazine and munitions, honestly I'm just theorizing. I even said the debuff is rather drastic for strategic value they even provide which really is so situational it's might as well be considered nothing anyways.

 

At least if when they get a proper visual crew we get some classy looking dudes being on deck and I've seen a post from the devs saying if we really want it they will allow marines and crew to fire muskets from ship to ship outside of boarding.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Lefort

[Admiral 8Q]

As I said you gotta think abstract from all the additional supplies it would take causing overcrowding making it harder to get to the magazine and munitions, honestly I'm just theorizing.

Yes, I do understand your point. Still, munitions and food supplies would not be stored in the same areas of the ship. Before a battle munitions would be brought to the gun deck(s).

If anything for debuffing, marines should cut down on cargo space.

[Lefort]

Yes, I do understand your point. Still, munitions and food supplies would not be stored in the same areas of the ship. Before a battle munitions would be brought to the gun deck(s).

If anything for debuffing, marines should cut down on cargo space.

hm good point I don't know the typical layout really of a ship other then the magazines are located at the bottom to avoid hazards and I imagine alot of the weaponry would be located close to it as well. What you suggest on reducing cargo space while more sensible it wouldn't have a real effect on gameplay as I don't think anyone really uses the military ships for transporting goods, unless they start making us bring food which would be awesome love me my management games.

[Admiral 8Q]

hm good point I don't know the typical layout really of a ship other then the magazines are located at the bottom to avoid hazards and I imagine alot of the weaponry would be located close to it as well. What you suggest on reducing cargo space while more sensible it wouldn't have a real effect on gameplay as I don't think anyone really uses the military ships for transporting goods, unless they start making us bring food which would be awesome love me my management games.

I've seen on historical tallships, the gun deck(s) you have to crouch to move around. It was about cramming as much guns in a fighting ship as possible. On the replica ones they make the deck where you can stand no problem and walk around. They do that for tourists.

Marines wouldn't be anywhere near the gun deck(s).

Yes the magazines were located below the waterline to prevent an explosion. Even so, marines or anyone else onboard wouldn't effect the reload time. Same as on the top deck, the sails and rigging would be adjusted at the same rate depending on the ship's crew. 

Now if you had a bunch of tourists walking around with camera phones getting in the way, then yeah that would reduce a ship's performance, haha!

Marines are trained soldiers, they wouldn't be clueless and wander around getting in the way during a battle. (Unless they had too much rum)

For gameplay, the marines shouldn't affect the regular crew performance.

 

[Admiral 8Q]

I know this isn't very clear, but this could give you a basic idea of the layout of a fighting ship.   

[OlavDeng2]

I've seen on historical tallships, the gun deck(s) you have to crouch to move around. It was about cramming as much guns in a fighting ship as possible. On the replica ones they make the deck where you can stand no problem and walk around. They do that for tourists.

Marines wouldn't be anywhere near the gun deck(s).

Yes the magazines were located below the waterline to prevent an explosion. Even so, marines or anyone else onboard wouldn't effect the reload time. Same as on the top deck, the sails and rigging would be adjusted at the same rate depending on the ship's crew. 

Now if you had a bunch of tourists walking around with camera phones getting in the way, then yeah that would reduce a ship's performance, haha!

Marines are trained soldiers, they wouldn't be clueless and wander around getting in the way during a battle. (Unless they had too much rum)

For gameplay, the marines shouldn't affect the regular crew performance.

 

For gameplay, the opposite is true, they should, imho every module should have a downside so that you cant end up with an objectively better ship than someone else(assuming same build material, focus and ship(eg trinco, or belle poule)

[Hethwill]

I might be wrong but my perception is that part of the crew is outfitted as marines, therefore taking away manpower from the batteries. It does not add crew.

[Madbags]

I might be wrong but my perception is that part of the crew is outfitted as marines, therefore taking away manpower from the batteries. It does not add crew.

 

This would make the most sense to me as a viable explanation.

[Admiral 8Q]

For gameplay, the opposite is true, they should, imho every module should have a downside so that you cant end up with an objectively better ship than someone else(assuming same build material, focus and ship(eg trinco, or belle poule)

I disagree on that analogy. Why get penalized for working in game to get a slight upgrade? Yes, not every upgrade should not have a downgrade somewhere else, true. Only ones that make sense. Like if I get a bigger heavier rudder, then I'll lose some speed. That makes sense.

[OlavDeng2]

I disagree on that analogy. Why get penalized for working in game to get a slight upgrade? Yes, not every upgrade should not have a downgrade somewhere else, true. Only ones that make sense. Like if I get a bigger heavier rudder, then I'll lose some speed. That makes sense.

From a gameplay perspective, it is better since imho the upgrades are more like specialization, you sacrafice one thing to be better at another, you dont want a place where you can mount upgrades with no penalties at all since that just means objectevly better ships and that means unless you have said ship with said objectively better upgrades you are at a disadvantage.

[Lefort]

From a gameplay perspective, it is better since imho the upgrades are more like specialization, you sacrafice one thing to be better at another, you dont want a place where you can mount upgrades with no penalties at all since that just means objectevly better ships and that means unless you have said ship with said objectively better upgrades you are at a disadvantage.

They are specializations with or without  them as your ships already perform better in certain areas then others and when you fill an upgrade slot you can't put anything else in it. If you look at some of the upgrades they're horrible cause the debuff go up high with buff depending on grade, look at the exceptional speed trim 2.5% boost in speed and take 10% reduction in armor who the hell wants that, 5 or even 7.5% would be enough but 10 just for a damn 2.5 boost, that's what you call crippling overspecialization.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Lefort

[VehoNex]

So having Hammocks for the extra crew, does that debuff in the end due to crowding? Or are these sailors specially trained and oiled up so they can slip around without impeding anyone?

[Lefort]

So having Hammocks for the extra crew, does that debuff in the end due to crowding? Or are these sailors specially trained and oiled up so they can slip around without impeding anyone?

haha good point, I like to have supply mechanic and greater gains with debuffs growing only so much with quality rather then these harsh debuffs for minor gains. Hammocks hardly give you any men compared to the marine upgrade though, especially on smaller ships I don't think percentages are always reasonable way convey improvements and drawbacks it can get arbitrary.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Lefort

[Admiral 8Q]

So having Hammocks for the extra crew, does that debuff in the end due to crowding? Or are these sailors specially trained and oiled up so they can slip around without impeding anyone?

If you have an upgrade slot, then it is there for 1 upgrade, it shouldn't cause crowding or the gunners to slow down. It would be if you went beyond the upgrade slots that you would be getting crowding or any other penalty. What you chose to do with the upgrade space is up to your preference. If you want more crew, hang some hammocks in that space, better boarding, make it into a mini-marines cabin, etc. Think of a factory a empty work area. Filling it with machines, storage, workers, a cafeteria, an office, or whatever won't affect the rest of the overall facility, only cause an increase in one aspect of the factory. Same idea on a ship. 

Not if you wanted to increase the amount of hammocks in an existing slot that's already being used instead of an empty one, then yes it would cause overcrowding.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Admiral 8Q