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Arvenski

Well, once again, the worst part of an MMO is...

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Yep. It happens occasionally. I do enjoy those sudden AI events.

Actually the AI attitude threshold could be tuned by distance to contested areas - adjacent ports enemy nations area would have the highest probability of AI action.

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A RoE system with options would be more flexible (as it may allow a player to switch from an option to another at (some) port e. g.), would allow to have all the players on the same servers and would allow more option than just the 2 current following ones :

- PVE servers : no tagging by players,

- PvP servers : no anti-ganking system.

Our debate is about freedom : freedom of choosing one's engagement or freedom to be able to freely gank anytime you want.

 

Now I post that just because we're in EA, for the sake of debate. It's just an idea, not a cause. :)

RoE discussion and tuning will come over the next weeks/months and things will be decided.

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Work from the opposite end of the stick.

 

- Do you wish to enjoy the game knowing there is the risk of being interdicted by another player ? It may happen once in a full moon, every single hour, or... never. Then PvP is more your thing.

 

- Do you wish to simply enjoy the game without any risk of being interdicted by another player ever ? It will never happen.  You might join a PvE server.

 

There's another way to present it...

 

You don't want to play with douchebags whose sole intent is to bully you in game? PVE server

 

You want to be free to gank all day long other players and have the joy of making some ragequit? PVP server

 

That's just another way of presenting the available choices.

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You cannot simply single out the "ganking" as the trigger for a renewal of the system I guess.

It must be something else as well and as it is now it is a lack of risk management when going out into the open.

 

Sometimes the "social solutions" are better than hoping for a development cycle. The sea gods forbid play with other players ( or other people! ) in a multiplayer game. Even a trader on a contracts run can easily ask for a couple guys to join up and help against any problem that might occur.

 

 

hoarmurath, whatever you want to call it. The choice is yours alone.

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Ganking is such an overused word... and it's used about pretty much every single situation where someone is engaged in PvP.

 

Simple fact:

 

Game has open world PvP.

 

This means YOU can engage players, almost, anywhere you want.

 

This also means players can engage YOU, almost, anywhere they want.

 

A lot of players state that they want a fair fight.

 

When playing in PvP it's clearly evident, through the actions of players, that the vast majority does NOT want a fair fight. As proven by the point that players will either attack enemies as a group, or they will engage an enemy in a smaller (weaker) ship, or an enemy that is plain outnumbered.

 

There are exceptions, obviously, but the vast majority of players are not going to take their solo 3rd rate against an enemy who is solo in a 3rd rate. That, per definition would be a "fair fight". However, most players will avoid such situations, deeming the risk to high as the battle is a 50/50 chance, which is too high for most.

 

I've seen this in so many open world PvP games. On forum players declare they want fair fights, or 1v1's and whatmore... but in game, it's all about being superior in numbers, in levels/ranks, gear or otherwise have a distinct advantage over your enemy.

 

EVE Online was exactly the same. PvP was a matter of flying in a gang to find targets that had fewer numbers or weaker ships. Or setting up ambush spots, gate camps and even traps. There were no fair fights. Noone were looking for fair fights. If there was a fair fight going on, then that was more a fluke (others joining the fight to balance the scales) than planned.

 

Warhammer Online was exactly the same. If you wanted PvP you rolled around with a group and hammered any enemies that were strayed from their friends, groups that were smaller, or anything where you had odds in your favour.

 

I don't see Naval Action as any different.

 

You can call it ganking, or griefing, or trolling, or cowardice, or unfair. At the end of the day players want to be rewarded and they want to win. However, it has become a "bad thing" to admit to such things, e.g. only attacking when you have superior numbers, levels, ships, gear or whatmore. Still, almost everyone does it once they are in game though. You rarely see lone wolves trying to PvP in EVE, or in this game. At least not very long, as they soon enough get jumped by 3-4 enemies, slaughtered and sent back to respawn.

 

Again, as I said before... I can be quite blunt... but,

 

Getting "ganked" IS PvP.

Getting attacked when you least expect IS PvP.

Getting pursued when you are outnumbered IS PvP.

Losing your ship in a battle where you had no chance IS PvP.

 

We can like it, hate it, try to change it...

 

.. or we can simply admit that PvP in open world game is, was and most likely always will be about attacking when you have a distinct advantage.

 

This is no different from realism. If you have 100 men, and the enemy has 100 men... why would you attack with a large risk of losing? Especially if you can wait and have another 100 men to help you, thus doubling your chance to win (simplified view, but still)?

 

In open world PvP the 1v1 fights and the "fair fights" do not happen. Sooner a person can accept that, the more fun he will have on a PvP server.

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There's another way to present it...

 

You don't want to play with douchebags whose sole intent is to bully you in game? PVE server

 

You want to be free to gank all day long other players and have the joy of making some ragequit? PVP server

 

That's just another way of presenting the available choices.

 

Is anybody allready saw a general asking to some troops or regiments to not entering in a fight and stay back, because, the enemy is in any kind of inferiority ?? Ganking don't really exist, but all way to win a fight/ war are legit and must be used ! It work like this since ages... 

 

PvP are like it, all the ways to win are used, nothing wrong with it, it's not a game breaking, just something we must keep in mind, and somebody using gank on a player isn't an asshole or a douchebag Mr Hoarmurath, just a player using his advantage... 

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When you play tennis, i presume you aim at the other player so you have a chance to stun him?

 

I wonder why pro video gaming is named Esport and not Ewar... Would make more sense by your definition.

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When you play tennis, i presume you aim at the other player so you have a chance to stun him?

 

I wonder why pro video gaming is named Esport and not Ewar... Would make more sense by your definition.

 

I'm sorry but we are actually playing a WAR video game... And when i m playing tennis, i take all smash occasion, even if my opponent loosing 6-0 mate...

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Why is it assumed that the guy was in the wrong for continuing to chase you?  Why do you have the right to get away without a long chase?  Why do you have the right to leave just because you say you have more important things to do?  Do you know how many people use that excuse?  How are people supposed to know if it was true or not?  If you really had to leave, you would have exited the game.  But you stayed, and so you probably didn't have to go right away.  Ya, maybe the guy said some things at the end.  But, can we see the chat log?  What did you say throughout the entire battle?  Typically in my experience, the person who is carrying on about leaving and leaving them alone usually says some quite foul things, especially after several minutes where they keep carrying on and no response is given.

 

Congrats you gave a bunch of gankers the satisfaction of a kill when you might have rode out the timer. If you had actually been faster than the snow, you would have gotten away in a few minutes. You weren't.

 

I should've clarified this: I wasn't putting much more distance between myself and the Snow once the chase started, but when I first decided to run I got a big lead in. He was never going to catch up to me unless he either destroyed my sails or demasted me, which was unlikely to happen considering how little damage he was able to do at the range he was at. Even then, I still had a sail repair, so I could've just gotten my sails back to normal and kept on going (which I did, at one point). What made me mad was that it seemed to me that his attitude was, "if I can't have you, I'm just going to keep you here in the battle instance forever so you can't do anything else." It seemed to me that the gentlemanly thing, since neither of us were going to win with the way things were going (I wasn't going to win by fighting, so I ran, but wasn't going to catch me) would've been to let me go so we could both go our own ways. I'm not on my gaming PC right now, so I don't have the chat logs, but I can assure you that I never cussed at the guy while he was chasing me. 

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I don't see the issue? You are on a PvP server and you were attacked by  enemies. No offence but if i see an enemy surprise on his own doing a mission for example i am going to attack him with my Trincomalee. I attack any enemy i see that isn't in a basic cutter. I expect enemy players to do the same and in fact have been attacked by many players while doing missions and just sailing to ports etc. That is why i picked the PvP server because i want these encounters. 

 

I would have chased you down too, not because i want to be toxic or waste your time, but because the whole point of me playing on the pvp server is to sink enemy players. To be honest this game has one of the best communities i've been apart of in a long while. Yes there are a few rotten apples, i've encountered some my self. Yet there are many very mature and helpful players in this game. All i can suggest is you do missions by your capital, i have rarely if ever been attacked by enemies near my capital. If that is not good enough then you do have the option of a PvE server where this sort of engagement cannot happen. 

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Sir, I would suggest that the fault lies within yourself rather than any mechanic. That may be hard to digest especially since you were quite aggrieved by the incident but we're you sailing in friendlier waters, perhaps joined a guild and did missions with them , there is less chance this would have happened.

Historically chases could have lasted days, so to have got it down to 40-60 minutes is quite an achievement for the devs

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There's another way to present it...

You don't want to play with douchebags whose sole intent is to bully you in game? PVE server

You want to be free to gank all day long other players and have the joy of making some ragequit? PVP server

That's just another way of presenting the available choices.

This. I want pvp to be mostly equal fights where both sides can lose and ganking is not a thing. Where fighting is exciting, challenging and frequent but apparently that makes me a bluebie care bear and I can never ever have that.

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Yes it's sad, i agree.

Losing a fight is not fun, and rub it in your face is not against the rules (altough toxic behaviour?) but it is certainly is not necessary imo.

You should respond with "GG" and be the bigger man.

What you can do is, write down their names. And when you see them again, return the favour and give them absolutely no quarter.

And say nothing in chat, until you won with "GG"

No rules are broken, no toxic behaviour.

You just gave them a taste of their own medicine.

Personally i don't like engaging unfair fights myself, for me it is no fun, little to gain. Give me a fair fight or a slight underdog position much more fun and excitement.

Small example was a english captain in a cutter who was sailing in Dutch waters, me and my mate let him go in a Niagara and Cerberus

Maybe he wil return the favour when it's the other way around (most likely) but who knows?

Whe play and are from different nations, but i see this like playing monopoly with friends or family, be a polite winner and a sportive loser.

Good luck next time

Thank you sir. Very good advice.

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[...OP post snipped for brevetity...]

 

I hate people sometimes.

 

Honestly? You had no chance of escaping. While it would have taken them a long time to grind you down if you kept running, you say yourself that eventually they would have caught you.

 

Wheres the problem here? You're on a PvP server.

Edited by Tindahbawx

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This. I want pvp to be mostly equal fights where both sides can lose and ganking is not a thing. Where fighting is exciting, challenging and frequent but apparently that makes me a bluebie care bear and I can never ever have that.

Then you are looking for a 1v1 battle arena style game not an open world sandbox game. Its nothing wrong with that but its a different game.

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you say yourself that eventually they would have caught you.

You seem to have misread something. I never said that. In fact, I said quite the opposite. 

 

 

Sir, I would suggest that the fault lies within yourself rather than any mechanic. That may be hard to digest especially since you were quite aggrieved by the incident 

You're probably right. I probably should've let them have my ship or sink me sooner and just gotten it over with, instead of continuing to try to run. 

 

I appreciate your putting it a bit gently, though. Like you said, I was pretty infuriated last night, and just reading this thread this morning made me angry again. So, thanks  :P

Edited by Arvenski

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You all misunderstand, if you think I'm expecting "cuddles" (to use the words of Mr. Passive-Aggressive above) in PvP. I would like (though I know this isn't going to happen) it if people acted with decency, so when they realize that they aren't going to catch someone, they don't try to get even by keeping him tagged in the battle instance for (what seemed to me to be) little reason other than to screw him over. 

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Right, well, I've PM'd a mod have this thread locked. There doesn't seem to be a point to keeping this discussion going. 

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