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Arvenski

Well, once again, the worst part of an MMO is...

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...The community.

 

Here I was, in my Mercury, playing a mission against an AI Mercury in order to level up to the 150 crew rank, when into the mission comes a pair of (Dutch, I believe) players: one in a cutter, one in a snow. Now, I had the 24lb carronades, but I think the AI Mercury did as well. Both the AI Mercury and I were down to about half of our side armor (I probably had a little more than half, since I used a repair as soon as the players showed up) when these two players dropped in, and in that state I wasn't eager to have to deal with a full-health player Snow backing up the Mercury, along with the Cutter plinking away at me.

 

So, I made a run for it, and tried to use the Mercury's speed to my advantage. The Cutter didn't stand a chance, and the Snow quickly fell back. And that's where things got annoying. I think the Snow was out of range of chain shot, but he kept firing ball ammo at me from long range, which, while pretty ineffective against my hull at that distance, was enough to slightly damage my sails and, more importantly, keep me in the battle instance. On multiple occasions, I pointed out to him in chat that he didn't have a hope of catching me, and that once he eventually got my sails down far enough I'd just repair them again that this would go on for ages. Because of this apparently stalemate, I repeatedly asked him in chat to please leave (because I couldn't leave with him always resetting my leave timer) so that we could go our own ways, and mentioned to him that I had better things to do in real life than keep this chase going for another hour (since this had gone on until there was about an hour left on the battle timer). However, the guy never responded in chat. He never said hi when I first greeted him when he joined the battle (as annoyed as I was, I still said hi), he never said why he kept up this (in my mind, pointless) chase, he never said jack. Nor did the other fellow in the Cutter, who still hung around at the tail end of the line. (It occurred to me that they might not speak English, but even a response in a foreign language would've meant that they noticed what I said, even if they didn't understand it...) 

 

They must've chased me for 35-40 minutes, with this one Snow always keeping me tagged, and always ignoring my messages. Every time I hoped he'd be out of range, he'd get at least one cannonball to go through my sails and reset the time. And this went on and on and on and on. Finally, I realized that if I wanted this to end, I could either disconnect and let them have my ship, or swing around and go down fighting. By this point, I was really pissed off, and since I figured that they were doing this so that the guy in the Cutter could get a free upgrade to a Mercury, I wasn't going to let them have my ship if I could help it. So, I swung around and attacked. I'm pleased to say that I didn't do a bad amount of damage to the Snow and AI Mercury before I went down, but I must've lasted between 5 and 10 minutes. I deliberately avoided going into survival mode when the leaks started becoming serious, and tried to do as much damage as I could before I went down. (I thought about trying to ram and capsize the Cutter, too, but I sunk before I could get to him.)

 

And then, as I'm sinking, the Snow player says "Bye :)" in chat.

 

I'm like "Wow, you do know the chat exists. Why'd you ignore me earlier?" Him: "Chat is for noobs :)"

 

After doing a double-take and pausing for a second to digest that, I'm left thinking to myself, "...You [expletive term for vagina]." (I didn't say that, though, as much as I may have wanted to.)

 

I hate people sometimes.

Edited by Arvenski
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It sounds like you are on the PvP server (if they were able to join on the AI's side), so hate it or love it, one of the risks with playing on PvP server is being engaged by players, whether enemy nations or pirates. 

 

In all honesty though, when it comes to PvP then most times it's simply better to say nothing than open up a can of worms where, for most part, people start yelling at eachother because they are upset, angry or whatever. In some FPS games, like Heroes and Generals, there is no "all chat", ergo no way to talk to enemy players. And I am a huge supporter of that decision because there is nothing you need to say to the enemy... except GG, or GL HF, but those statements are 100% unnecessary. 99% of chat between two opposing forces in a game is insults, spites, angry remarks and often profanity, racial slurs and worse.

 

What I am trying to get at here is... since their goal was to capture or sink you, and they apparently had time enough on their hands to engage in a drawn out pursuit, then there was nothing they really had to say to you. Sure, they could have had a conversation with you, but end result would be the same... their intention was capture or sink you, regardless of how long it took. And apparently that is what the outcome of the battle was in the end.

 

I will say that he probably could have spared the somewhat "rub it in your face" comment and smileyface at the end. But after you pointing out that he has no hope to catch you, and trying to discourage them from chasing you, then you most likely just fueled their determination to get you... and when they finally did it was an accomplishment for them, from their point of view.

 

While I understand your frustration, at the end of the day playing on a PvP server means you have to deal with, well, the community. To avoid this (most of it anyways) the solution is really to play on a PvE server.

Edited by Ghroznak
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Why is it assumed that the guy was in the wrong for continuing to chase you?  Why do you have the right to get away without a long chase?  Why do you have the right to leave just because you say you have more important things to do?  Do you know how many people use that excuse?  How are people supposed to know if it was true or not?  If you really had to leave, you would have exited the game.  But you stayed, and so you probably didn't have to go right away.  Ya, maybe the guy said some things at the end.  But, can we see the chat log?  What did you say throughout the entire battle?  Typically in my experience, the person who is carrying on about leaving and leaving them alone usually says some quite foul things, especially after several minutes where they keep carrying on and no response is given.

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Good posts.

For someone who doesn't know the nuances of MMOs, Arvenski's story and Ghroznak's viewpoint is illuminating. Thanks guys. Helpful to understand people's mind sets.

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You know you could of turned a bit at the last moment and he might of missed you and not reset your counter.  Now for me getting ganked by 9 brits and out running them all the other day.    I didn't get crap for doing so.  They should have some type of reward even if it's XP only for out running a way out matched fight.   Though what pissed me off is when I came out of the first stage of invisibility suddenly two of the snow showed up right next to me also on the OW.  They stayed on me and tagged me and where able to catch and kill me.  I did the same and let myself sink so they didn't get the price of the ship.   Though it was bad odds that they just happen to pop out on the OW exactly the same way I was going.  Maybe the after battle counter should be a bit longer?   To me I have caught and sunk guys I ran on for a good 30 mins just slightly gaining on them until I was able to get there sales down.  You prob would of out run them sooner and later and shouldn't had turned.

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I don't really see any wrongdoing in this incident (aside from the, perhaps, snidey chat comment in the end).

 

Two players decided to engage another player while he was in a vulnerable situation.

 

Is that trolling by the attackers? Griefing? Unsporsmanlike behaviour? Or simply being opportunistic?

 

A pursuit ensued, which in the end led to blows being exchanged and one ship was sunk.

 

In other words, a pretty standard PvP situation from a broad point of view, even if frustrating for the victim (ship loss always is, that's just human nature).

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Nothing wrong here. He will be just as miffed about chasing you for 30 mins as you are running for 30 mins. I find chases quite exciting myself. if you dont like it you could dodge the shots or even turn and fight.

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Congrats you gave a bunch of gankers the satisfaction of a kill when you might have rode out the timer. If you had actually been faster than the snow, you would have gotten away in a few minutes. You weren't.

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These types of engagements were not unknown or even uncommon in history. What IS unrealistic is the frequency of the situation existing where such engagements happen, but that is the way the game is designed so it is what it is. In the end, they played the waiting game and you broke first.

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I think you need to go to the pve server if you don't want this to happen, or be much more selective about where you run missions.

 

Agree with the comments re not needing to give the comment at the end (and well done for not smacking them when you lost).

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Wel, really nothing bad in your story... This time you was ganked, next time you'll gank somebody :) All is fine on Caraibians sea :)

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Reminds me of Jack Aubrey being pursued by the Waakzaamheid in Desolation Island.  "I wonder,' thought Jack, 'whether it is just an odd chance, or whether we killed some relative of his?  His boy, perhaps, dear God forbid."  

 

Sometimes the enemy is persistent beyond what you think is reasonable.  It's all part of PVP.   Long, drawn out chases can be fun.  My guess is that the guys chasing you weren't bored.  

Edited by ssssnake529
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I guess the ideal Rules of Engagement system would enable players to choose as options at the beginning of the session :

- what kind of engagement they wish : PvE, PvP, both.

- the conditions of engagement : even/uneven (1v1 only ; up to 1v4...) ; with/without the acceptance of the player... 

A major difficulty would be, I guess, that enough players meeting the criteria would have to be online to please everyone...

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I guess the ideal Rules of Engagement system would enable players to choose as options at the beginning of the session :

- what kind of engagement they wish : PvE, PvP, both.

- the conditions of engagement : even/uneven (1v1 only ; up to 1v4...) ; with/without the acceptance of the player... 

A major difficulty would be, I guess, that enough players meeting the criteria would have to be online to please everyone...

 

The worst idea in an OW mmo game ever.... If someone don't want free PvP and ganking risk, there is a PvE server, or other games. A game will never please to everyone, NA is the kind of game you'll buy if you want free and often unfair PvP and risks. 

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The worst idea in an OW mmo game ever.... If someone don't want free PvP and ganking risk, there is a PvE server, or other games. A game will never please to everyone, NA is the kind of game you'll buy if you want free and often unfair PvP and risks. 

We seem to have two completely opposite ideas of what freedom is (when playing in OW), that's all. None is "worst". Have a nice day, Captain  :)

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Yes it's sad, i agree.

Losing a fight is not fun, and rub it in your face is not against the rules (altough toxic behaviour?) but it is certainly is not necessary imo.

You should respond with "GG" and be the bigger man.

What you can do is, write down their names. And when you see them again, return the favour and give them absolutely no quarter.

And say nothing in chat, until you won with "GG"

No rules are broken, no toxic behaviour.

You just gave them a taste of their own medicine.

Personally i don't like engaging unfair fights myself, for me it is no fun, little to gain. Give me a fair fight or a slight underdog position much more fun and excitement.

Small example was a english captain in a cutter who was sailing in Dutch waters, me and my mate let him go in a Niagara and Cerberus

Maybe he wil return the favour when it's the other way around (most likely) but who knows?

Whe play and are from different nations, but i see this like playing monopoly with friends or family, be a polite winner and a sportive loser.

Good luck next time

Edited by Jacob van Heemskerck
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I guess the ideal Rules of Engagement system would enable players to choose as options at the beginning of the session :

- what kind of engagement they wish : PvE, PvP, both.

- the conditions of engagement : even/uneven (1v1 only ; up to 1v4...) ; with/without the acceptance of the player... 

A major difficulty would be, I guess, that enough players meeting the criteria would have to be online to please everyone...

 

The rules of engagement are fine as they are:

 

PVP - no rules

PVE - no engagement

 

Half way houses only serve those who want to avoid PVP, and for those people there is the PVE server already.

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The worst idea in an OW mmo game ever.... If someone don't want free PvP and ganking risk, there is a PvE server, or other games. A game will never please to everyone, NA is the kind of game you'll buy if you want free and often unfair PvP and risks. 

A couple of things I disagree with here. I do agree that a game will never please everyone... Elite Dangerous comes close imo but hey. By saying "If someone don't want free PvP and ganking risk, there is a PvE server, or other games." you are straight away limiting the game to just one kind of PVP player... presumably the style you personally prefer. There are potential players watching this embryonic game who may be put off by the prospect of the kind of PVP you are putting forward. The designers need to acknowledge many different play styles when considering their business plan. Remember, they need to make money at this and the latest thinking among many designers is that the old style 'wild west' approach is inhibiting potential income. "NA is (currently) the kind of game you'll buy if you want free and often unfair PvP and risks." Hopefully it will also become a game that is attractive to a wider player base who want a more structured PVP game.

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I guess the ideal Rules of Engagement system would enable players to choose as options at the beginning of the session :

- what kind of engagement they wish : PvE, PvP, both.

- the conditions of engagement : even/uneven (1v1 only ; up to 1v4...) ; with/without the acceptance of the player... 

A major difficulty would be, I guess, that enough players meeting the criteria would have to be online to please everyone...

You get a choice every time you log in. PVE server or PVP server. You can play on either any time you like. Depending what mood you are in. It seems a lot of people want to pvp when they want to but want to be left alone when they are not looking for a fight. This is not how the world works when your at war.

Xp is linked to steam account. If your desperate to mission without danger do them on a PVE server your xp will go up on the pvp server too.

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Work from the opposite end of the stick.

 

- Do you wish to enjoy the game knowing there is the risk of being interdicted by another player ? It may happen once in a full moon, every single hour, or... never. Then PvP is more your thing.

 

- Do you wish to simply enjoy the game without any risk of being interdicted by another player ever ? It will never happen.  You might join a PvE server.

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Work from the opposite end of the stick.

 

- Do you wish to simply enjoy the game without any risk of being interdicted by another player ever ? It will never happen.  You might join a PvE server.

 

While not players, I have noticed that it's not always safe to sail around in PvE either. Been attacked, and seen others being attacked, randomly by NPC ships lately. Specifically a Spanish Mercury supported by a fleet Snow which aggroes when you get close :)

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