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Johny Reb

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I could ask you to show me the acutal data about the player base of the factions on which you ground your assumptions.

Victor, this is common knowledge

 

Or I could stress that you gave no answer on the point of the stretched time zone in the USA.

That doesn't matter, we have people from all over the world.

 

Or I could tell you that - though being such a seasoned naval action veteran (and you will forgive if someone talking about being veteran in an alpha makes me simply laugh!) - you seem to have a very reduced perception about what makes a sandbox MMORPG live or die in the long time.

Many of us have played mmos for years. You are not an anomaly. That you think you are an mmo vet is laughable. What is an mmo vet? It doesn't make a difference.

However, when it comes to Naval Action...What is the real life saying? It takes 10,000 hours to master something? I am 1/5th of the way there when it comes to Naval Action. Come back when you have 2000 hours in game and tell me I am not a vet in Naval Action.

 

But I will not. It's not my attitude wasting time in discussing a problem with people that simply deny that there is a problem only because the problem does not affect them (because basically this is what you are saying in all the threads on this topic: I win, so nothing shall change).

You have no idea what I have posted on this topic in other threads or in the exclusive Testers forum. The issue is not US power. Our power counter balances nations like the Pirates and the Brits.  Siegfried and Maturin can confirm I have been posting in the favor of small nations such as Spain.

 

Of course my suggestions were not directed to people like you. So - from now on - please do not bother answering my posts. I will for sure nolonger answer yours.

Lol. I can do as I please.

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It's the world we live in, and the experience of the people in it. Today people believe that a disagreement is won by producing the most repeatable soundbite; as evidence I give you essentially all politics in the US and, sadly, more and more of it here in Canada too as we take more cues from you guys. It makes for shallow debate but it's a growing trend that, unfortunately, I don't see changing for the better any time soon. Why stick to salient points when you'll be declared the most clever by throwing out the 'quipiest' jabs. I think that's what Maturin was getting at.

 

As for the diplomatic attempts between the US and Spain, can anybody really blame the Spanish for not wanting any part of it? Strategically peace would be in their best interest, but since the map reset the forums here have been full of almost nothing but snide remarks and smug condescension directed at them by the majority of USN posters. In their place I wouldn't see this as the USN holding out an olive branch either; I'd see it as the USN throwing them a patronizing bone. As it's just a game and they don't actually have to be worried about literally being snuffed out, all they have to fall back on is their pride, as do we all. More than anything else, your players have ruined any chance at a lasting peace. I'm not pointing any fingers or calling anybody in particular out, and I'm not accusing your diplomats of 'allowing your side to be too free with their tongues' or any such thing; everyone has the right to post as they will on here. It just is what it is, as they used to say in anger management. Sadly, this is likely to be answered with "well, if they want to get annihilated then that's their choice for being so bad lololol get on my level" which is representative of most of the back-and-forth between your nations, regardless of the attempts of a few for more civil discourse.

 

That's my take on it, anyway. If the US clans really want peace with the Spanish I think at this point your best bet is to simply ignore them, stop taking ports, stop baiting them on the forums, and just leave them be for a while as you focus your forces elsewhere. If they take a couple of ports back, ignore them and don't bite when they wave them in your faces here (as I'm sure they will).

 

As an English-speaking French player all I can do is say "wait, why is he referring to me here... ooh, he said the Spanish". Ba-dum *tish*

All I can say here is... retarded.

 

You essentially say that since they declared war on us and we used our advantages to beat them we are the bad ones

You essentially say that by us holding out the olive branch, well over a dozen times, we are the ones that have ruined any chance of lasting peace.

You essentially say that role play by us ruins chances of peace yet when its done by other nations its ok. I remind you to look at the French role play. At least the US role plays honestly.

You essentially say that the only way for us to seek to have peace is to surrender.

 

This is simple. This can't be pinned on the US. Plain and simple. We have tried to many times, from the start to now, to create a good relationship with the Spanish. That cannot be ignored by an honest intelligent human being. To somehow twist the goals and actions of the US into acts of causation when the Dons wanted it all and appears to still want it is incredibly biased or naive.

 

The Spanish have had so many chances to work out a beneficial relationship. They have not done that until just recently and then the nation rejected their request and our offer even though it was generous once again. The Spanish have chosen to distrust and hate and assume the worst about their neighbors instead of trying to get to know us. All of you in this thread that has assumed US motives.... Not one of you have tried to talk with me, accepted invites to our TS to talk, or PM'ed me here to try to understand us, validate what we are saying, or get a sense of our integrity. All I hear are haters that have no clue what they are talking about and no gumption to play a roll for the better.

 

Even Maturin, who I have always respected in these forums for his even keeled manner and nautical knowledge, makes no sense here.

"If the U.S. was smart, it would start cooperating with Spain in anticipation of joint port access. Spain has learned its lesson that the US would be a better ally than Britain because northern Cuba is more important than southern Cuba, and Hispaniola is more important than Florida."

What the hell do you think we have been trying to do from the beginning Maturin? Or is it that the only way to "cooperate" with Spain is to surrender whenever they declare war on you?"

 

Look all I'm frustrated. We waged a war well against a nation that declared war on us yet are blamed everyday for it. We have continually held out the desire for peace of some sort at every stage yet get all the blame.  Finally, a Spanish group comes for talks and we give them a very generous offer in hopes of building trust with them and we get blamed again when their nation rejects a treaty and the only option given to us as a remedy is to lay down and just let them all back in without gaining any sense of security out of it.

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What the hell do you think we have been trying to do from the beginning Maturin? Or is it that the only way to "cooperate" with Spain is to surrender whenever they declare war on you?"

Dude, you can't take ten ports in one day (which you have no need of and give the lie to your earlier excuses for conquest) and then act all nice and friendly at the same time. 

 

This is not a highly sophisticated diplomatic concept. A blitzkrieg invasion is prefaced by a demand for surrender, not an offer to negotiate a settlement. No matter how politely worded.

 

If you want negotiate--especially if the precise negotiating partner is not obvious--you need to STOP taking ports for a moment. Negotiations only take place during a ceasefire. Meanwhile, the U.S. needs to take the rational steps of shoring up its defenses against the Brits and pirates.

 

No one in Spain gives a shit about your words, only your actions. Those actions are steamrolling Mexico while the British build a base to cut off your new holdings. Outside the echo chamber of U.S. magnanimity (always hazy and dubious in the telling of its origins), the de-facto operations of the U.S. are obviously centered on destroying Spain to the detriment of confronting the powerhouses of Pirates and Britain. 

 

 

 

 

 

And no one has the foggiest idea about what some guy from RAE said to some guy from the U.S. months ago in Florida. RAE obviously isn't the mouthpiece of the Spanish nation anymore, and all this 'he-said she-said' is ancient history.

Accusing the Spanish of declaring war is pretty dodgy as well. Really? The U.S. never took a single Florida port until someone from RAE was mean?

 

The U.S. is full of RP-minded people, so why are they waging a Total War? In the politics of the time, a dispute over Florida would lead to just that, a local war for Florida.

 

 

 

Edit: I'm not blaming you for your negotiation tactics, I'm just informing you of the logical consequence of those efforts. They involve holding your victim down and bludgeoning them while covering your eyes with one hand and melodramatically calling out, "Oh Lord, look what they are making me do to them!"

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I could ask you to show me the acutal data about the player base of the factions on which you ground your assumptions.

 

-snip-

 

But I will not. It's not my attitude wasting time in discussing a problem with people that simply deny that there is a problem only because the problem does not affect them (because basically this is what you are saying in all the threads on this topic: I win, so nothing shall change).

 

-snip-

 

 

As to the first thing, this was posted to the Naval Action official Facebook page, and so right from the horse's mouth:

KFdO2aQ.jpg

 

A to the matter of "denying that there is a problem only because the problem does not affect them" we don't deny that there is a problem. I invite you to read this thread (http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8263-petition-remove-port-capture-windows/) where many USA players have commented on the port timer issue, including myself. You say you are new to this game, I've only been playing since December, so nowhere near as long as Guys Like Prater, but before the Steam EA release, the issues Spain is facing were being faced by the US faction, I was there I saw it. At that time nothing was done about the issue by the devs, despite the numerous complaints and suggestions. We have had absolutely no reason to assume that a fix or a wipe would be coming soon (until the addition of land in battles was announced) and a peace offer could give the spanish breathing room until the game mechanics are fixed.

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All I can say here is... retarded.

 

You essentially say that since they declared war on us and we used our advantages to beat them we are the bad ones

You essentially say that by us holding out the olive branch, well over a dozen times, we are the ones that have ruined any chance of lasting peace.

You essentially say that role play by us ruins chances of peace yet when its done by other nations its ok. I remind you to look at the French role play. At least the US role plays honestly.

You essentially say that the only way for us to seek to have peace is to surrender.

 

[snip]

 

First off, let me just get this out of the way: if you have to begin your response with "retarded" then, generally speaking, nothing else you have to say much matters. Grow up.

 

With that said, let me respond to the rest. I "essentially say" none of those things whatsoever. Did you actually read what I wrote? Frankly the only thing I can assume from this is that you're so eager to play the affronted victim here that you're incapable of reading what's written without injecting your own agenda into it. If you had bothered to read and think about what I'd written before responding so emotionally I think you'd have likely realised that you're among those I referred to as the "few [attempting to engage in] more civil discourse". Maybe I should address each of these separately.

 

"You essentially say that since they declared war on us and we used our advantages to beat them we are the bad ones" Not at all. At no point did I say you were in the wrong for making war on your enemy nor for winning. That would be absurd. The US clans have successfully fought against the Spanish at almost every turn. Were there issues of game mechanic "abuse"? Maybe, depending on your perspective, but I didn't mention any of this. In fact I didn't mention the fighting at all. It's immaterial. All I spoke about was the conduct of many of your countrymen on these forums, which has been almost entirely smug, condescending, and childish. Have they engaged in the same? Yes, at times, though not nearly to the same extent. Their player population is likely the reason for the disproportionate amount, as there are simply fewer of them. Does this have any effect on how you've persecuted your war effort? Not at all. Again, I said nothing whatsoever about you engaging the Spanish in the game. I have no idea why you think otherwise.

 

"You essentially say that by us holding out the olive branch, well over a dozen times, we are the ones that have ruined any chance of lasting peace." Again no, entirely incorrect. You didn't ruin any chance of a lasting peace by holding out an olive branch (and (Edited to gosh golly!) am I ever tired of reading that phrase.) It was ruined by the conduct of many US faction players on these forums and their snide, patronising behavior. Essentially the same answer as my first one. Again I have no idea how you've managed to read that I said your attempts at peace have ruined your chance of peace, that's just ridiculous.

 

"You essentially say that role play by us ruins chances of peace yet when its done by other nations its ok. I remind you to look at the French role play. At least the US role plays honestly." I'm at something of a loss as to how to respond to this one, but I'll try. Again your habit of putting words in my mouth in this post blows my mind. This business of "role-play" is just silly. There's been a trend on here for people to say rude, inflammatory nonsense and then cover it with "teehee /RP off". It's passive-aggressive and it's embarrassing. "You're bad at the game, your diplomacy is shit, we're going to curb-stomp you all into submission." "Hey, screw you pal!" "Whoa, hey, take it easy. I'm just role-playing, can't you take a joke?!" (Edited to "Holy moly!"). Seriously people, give your heads a shake.

 

You want a good example of role-play? Prator's newspapers are an excellent one. They're written up in such a way that you can get some digs in against your enemies while explaining your perspective on the current situations and it's peppered with great period-appropriate filler about in-fighting within the US government, calls for removal of the President, etc. It's a stand-out example of good role-play.

 

A lot of people on here use "role-play" as an excuse to be a (Edited to "dick"). Other people are so bloody sensitive that they take legitimate attempts at role-play personally and seriously and end up taking great offense at it. Either this board needs to acknowledge that it's all role-play and all in good fun, or just stop with it entirely, because the community as a whole here seems incapable of integrating it within actual discussion. As for the bit about "at least the US role plays honestly" I'm not even going to touch that.

 

"You essentially say that the only way for us to seek to have peace is to surrender." And yet again, I said nothing of the sort. I said that, from my point of view, if you want to have a lasting peace then you need to ignore the Spanish for a while, including their gibes on the forum, and wait until cooler heads can prevail. I don't understand how somebody that thinks of themselves as a diplomat can possibly equate "let emotions run their course and then engage in civil discussion at a later time" with "surrender". That's short-sighted and entirely ego-driven. Where on earth do you get the idea that I suggested a surrender? If anything I gave your position too much credit by alluding to the fact that nothing the Spanish could do right now would actually affect your nation in any way while you conduct your war against the Pirates and British. You're welcome.

 

Look, I realise that you don't know me and I don't know you. You don't know that I do not make a habit of making people 'read between the lines' when I say something. Everything I wrote is exactly what I meant, and there were no hidden meanings or double-speak buried in there. You put a great deal of effort into putting a lot of words in my mouth. I realise that people on the internet in general, and to a great extent on these forums, play those passive-aggressive word games and that we're all used to having to watch for them. Don't bother with me; I speak my mind plainly and I don't waste other peoples' time with "between the lines" nonsense.

 

You say that you're frustrated. Fine. Perhaps you should refrain from posting until you've cleared your head, then. You took what I wrote and put a staggering off-kilter spin on it because apparently you couldn't read it without seeing it through the lens of your own agenda. Hopefully this cleared that up for you. I clearly stated that I was not calling out anybody in particular, nor was I pointing fingers at individuals. I was stating that, in general, the conduct of many of your faction's players on these forums.. which is how the majority of the Spanish interact with you (again as a faction, not you specifically), since they're not there to hear your "diplomats" speak.. has poisoned the water. Who would want to surrender to somebody so smug and patronising, when all that's on the line is pretend internet boats? Not me, and I suspect not you.

 

Remember: at the end of the day this is a game. If you're not having fun, then you're not doing it right. Salut.

 

 

 

 

Edited to replace a couple of much-stronger words with more palatable ones, where noted. After the time it took to write this short story of a response, I'd hate for it to be deleted because I said a bad word!

Edited by Francis Tabernac
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As to the first thing, this was posted to the Naval Action official Facebook page, and so right from the horse's mouth:

KFdO2aQ.jpg

 

A to the matter of "denying that there is a problem only because the problem does not affect them" we don't deny that there is a problem. I invite you to read this thread (http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8263-petition-remove-port-capture-windows/) where many USA players have commented on the port timer issue, including myself. You say you are new to this game, I've only been playing since December, so nowhere near as long as Guys Like Prater, but before the Steam EA release, the issues Spain is facing were being faced by the US faction, I was there I saw it. At that time nothing was done about the issue by the devs, despite the numerous complaints and suggestions. We have had absolutely no reason to assume that a fix or a wipe would be coming soon (until the addition of land in battles was announced) and a peace offer could give the spanish breathing room until the game mechanics are fixed.

 

Thanks for the clarification (I shall underlinline anyway that the statement you cited seem to speak about the total population of all the servers, not just about PVP EU 1 population, so we cannot tell which is the situation in our server)

 

As far as the rest is concerned, It seem quite clear that my post (and my criticism) was directed only to Mr. Prater personally, not to all americans.

 

I know that you and a lot of US players do not deny the problem. In fact the tone of your answer (and of other americans) is very different form Prater's one.

 

Fact is that person conflictive like Mr Prater give a bad name to all your faction all and that does not help to solve things.

Edited by victor
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Anyone who wants to nerf a specific faction on the forums is going to get a nasty response.  We are tired of people who come crying to the forums to nerf us when they can get their way in game.  Why should we be at a disadvantage when we are #3?

 

Also, if what admin posted was for all the servers, that means we are even farther down because the US server has a lot of US players playing US.

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(A very fine and well written post of such length that for the sake of brevity I have chosen to not repost it in its entirety)

 

At least the American diplomats aren't the same people who display such allegedly "inappropriate" behavior. I seem to recall that the breakdown of US-FRENCH diplomacy was because the French Ambassador made inflammatory and insulting false claims about the leaders of US clans and their conduct during negotiations. I would find it laughable that a French player, especially one from the same clan of said diplomat, would be giving diplomatic advice to anyone were I not so thoroughly disgusted by your arrogance as a third party to speak of diplomatic talks that you were neither party to or represented in to someone who not only was there, but organized said talks on the US side.

EDIT: This silly argument was based around a misunderstanding on the parts of both parties. Feel free to disregard my posts until: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/10733-news-from-the-north/?p=193270

Edited by InfiniteAmount
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Why should we be at a disadvantage when we are #3? Also, if what admin posted was for all the servers, that means we are even farther down because the US server has a lot of US players playing US.

 

To be honest, the strategic advantage of a nation is not only a matter of number of players in absolute terms, but also of :

- population density (number of players/faction area or number of players/number of ports),

- location of your ports in relation to other factions...

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At least the American diplomats aren't the same people who display such allegedly "inappropriate" behavior. I seem to recall that the breakdown of US-FRENCH diplomacy was because the French Ambassador made inflammatory and insulting false claims about the leaders of US clans and their conduct during negotiations.

 

That's part of what I was talking about, in that the community as a whole can't seem to separate RP from non-RP. Nakor made that post with a great deal of poetic license, but it was taken as literal. All sides have been guilty of this. I made sure not to point to any one faction for exactly that reason; nobody is any more or less guilty of it than anyone else, really.

 

 

 

I would find it laughable that a French player, especially one from the same clan of said diplomat, would be giving diplomatic advice to anyone were I not so thoroughly disgusted by your arrogance as a third party to speak of diplomatic talks that you were neither party to or represented in to someone who not only was there, but organized said talks on the US side.

 

Hah, fair enough, if I'd been speaking on anything of the kind. Again, and for the last time (because good lord, that wall of text..) I was speaking about conduct on the forums, where the majority of interaction between nations is had. Once again, the only off-hand mention I've made of actual "diplomatic exchanges" was positive, stating that they've been attempting civil discourse, giving them the benefit of the doubt precisely because I'm not (nor have I any reason to be) privy to those discussions. I assumed that they were attempting to deal in good faith and were doing so civilly. Why is it so difficult to grasp that I've actually been giving credit here, not criticism?

 

That's all I have to say on the subject. My initial post has been so twisted at this point that any further attempt to clarify would just result in another great long novella that I have no desire to write and I imagine none of you have any desire to read :lol: I'm not bowing out of further conversation, I just won't keep trying to clarify that post for people. Salut, gentlemen!

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(The above post again not fully quoted for brevity)

Do you not see the problem with what you are saying? Read through this subforum and you'll see that anytime a US player is acting "smug" or "arrogant" you'll find a Spanish, British or French player responding in kind, many times players from all three factions, and many times only in response to the same attitude coming from Spanish, British and French players. And yet you say that it is solely US player's conduct that prevents peace, that US players are smug and arrogant, and you expect us to believe that you are not only not criticizing us, but not insulting us, too? That your post insulting the nature of US RPers, while ignoring those same traits in RPers of your own and other factions, is somehow supposed to be taken as friendly advice from a veteran player that "knows better"? Do you not see how incredibly patronizing that is, especially considering it comes from a faction that couldn't negotiate itself out of a wet paper bag? Edited by InfiniteAmount
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You're so bound and determined to make this a romanticised "Us vs Them" situation, where it's everybody picking on the poor US faction, that you continue to see personal insults where none lay. You continue to try to make this into "You're insulting us and telling us we're bad but everyone else is good" when I've done no such thing. I've already explained that at no time was I singling you out in general terms, but was referring to conduct in a very specific context and how it's affected a very specific reply. I have then in turn pointed out that same conduct in others, and suggested you take the high road in ignoring it. If you can't see that for wont of playing the victim and seeing insult where there is none then that's your prerogative, and I wish you all the best in it.

 

As for "..insulting the nature of US RPers" I was calling out the entire board as a whole, by repeatedly using words like "the board" and "the community as a whole".

 

especially considering it comes from a faction that couldn't negotiate itself out of a wet paper bag?

 

Hilarious. Pot, meet kettle. I'm starting to think you're not even trying anymore ;)

 

 

Edit: You may or may not recall, my first few posts were actually in defense of the US against Spanish players complaining that the game and developers were favouring you by pointing out that you're winning because you're doing a better job than them, not because of favouritism. Sadly now that I've pointed out some of your faults I'm now arrogant and patronising. Well, I tried.

Edited by Francis Tabernac
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You continue to try to make this into "You're insulting us and telling us we're bad but everyone else is good" when I've done no such thing. I've already explained that at no time was I singling you out in general terms, but was referring to conduct in a very specific context and how it's affected a very specific reply. I have then in turn pointed out that same conduct in others, and suggested you take the high road in ignoring it. If you can't see that for wont of playing the victim and seeing insult where there is none then that's your prerogative, and I wish you all the best in it.

As for "..insulting the nature of US RPers" I was calling out the entire board as a whole, by repeatedly using words like "the board" and "the community as a whole".

See:

 

More than anything else, your players have ruined any chance at a lasting peace.

 

Sadly, this is likely to be answered with "well, if they want to get annihilated then that's their choice for being so bad lololol get on my level" which is representative of most of the back-and-forth between your nations

You didn't ruin any chance of a lasting peace by holding out an olive branch. . .It was ruined by the conduct of many US faction players on these forums and their snide, patronising behavior.

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Exactly, conduct in a specific context and how it's affected a very specific reply, and "most of the back-and-forth" clearly stating for anyone that can read that it refers to both sides, not just yours. Thank you for making my point for me :)

You have had me at a disadvantage of understanding, then. If this is the case that you wished to make with your posts, than I am sorry to say that it has been made poorly as nearly every US player reading this thread has taken offense to what you believe to be conciliatory words. Perhaps it would be beneficial for all involved to make a greater effort to avoid misunderstanding and focus on clarity of meaning, especially in matters as complicated as the relationship between inter-factional interaction occurring on the forums and actual diplomacy occurring in private.

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...I am sorry to say that it has been made poorly as nearly every US player reading this thread has taken offense to what you believe to be conciliatory words. Perhaps it would be beneficial for all involved to make a greater effort to avoid misunderstanding and focus on clarity of meaning, especially in matters as complicated as the relationship between inter-factional interaction occurring on the forums and actual diplomacy occurring in private.

 

Have they? Well that's unfortunate. I had thought I'd been clear about the distinction because I had specified that I was speaking simply about the interaction occurring on the forums and their effect on the general feelings again expressed on the forums. That's why my only off-hand mention of private diplomatic discussions was to assume that they were being made civilly and were merely being undermined by the aforementioned behavior here, and have never implied that I was privy to them. I think I've cleared that up as well as I can (and made myself a liar by continuing to attempt to, d'oh!) Salut!

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Francis, I thought your argument dumb. I don't think your dumb or a bad guy or anything. Your arguments are all one sided. Spanish players have every bit as inflammatory in these forums as the US, so has the French and even more so as they don't role play with truth. I don't have any problem with either of your groups. I've got thick skin and I'm not afraid to defend myself especially when I feel I have the moral high ground or at least a good reason for my actions and motives.

 

I was emotional in the last post. I am tiring. Everyday I am accused of a new evil or scheme or lie by Spain. I forgive them, I choose to ignore it for the most part. Spain obviously has no trust for anybody and is so jaded that they see the devil in every corner. It has made them dysfunctional. Today on the Spanish forums we were accused of working with the pirates as they marched up Cuba. See a new accusation everyday. So maybe you can see why I am loosing my patience. I am coming to the belief that Spain WANTS to believe the worst about us. It wouldn't matter if I gave all their ports back. They would still be saying I was trying to do it for my own gain.

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Can I ask you something Maturin? Do you even care what it is said. I mean is there a possible chance for the meeting of the minds or will I just be wasting my breath and time?

 

Dude, you can't take ten ports in one day (which you have no need of and give the lie to your earlier excuses for conquest) and then act all nice and friendly at the same time. 

I'm not sure which expansion you are referring to... the initial one along the coast of the US or our latest actions in Cuba and the Yucatan?

I have explained both of course. What about my explanations don't you think is reasonable. Spanish had abandoned the area, pirates were moving in and Britian was rumored to start. Our front lines were spread out by over two hours and taking those ports offered a very concise front line that was much more dependable then what we had. So why is it we didn't need it? Why is this not a very strategic move. I have been accused of wanting to make peace with spain for our own gain. This is partially true, I'm not looking to give something for nothing. Having Spain as a friendly nation on my flank provides us, as well as Spain, with having a flank that won't be attacked. Is having a mutual gain from an agreement an action that has to limit my honesty and friendliness. Would it have been better if I just took everything up in my area and then agreed to a peace without giving you anything back. Would you trust me more then?

 

This is not a highly sophisticated diplomatic concept. A blitzkrieg invasion is prefaced by a demand for surrender, not an offer to negotiate a settlement. No matter how politely worded. - Our hand of friendship happened multiple times before the blitzkrieg and 99% of the land taken of late was offered back. We also didn't demand a surrender... Listen closely for the hundreth time   SPAIN CAME TO US!

 

If you want negotiate--especially if the precise negotiating partner is not obvious--you need to STOP taking ports for a moment.- we did as far as I know. We were in the process of taking ports when we were contacted. We took one right after(it was already in motion) and then we stopped. Negotiations only take place during a ceasefire.- We have been given the answer and the answer was No. If any ports have been taken since, its not a violation of negotiations because there is no cease fire anymore because there is no negotiations. Any negotiation that may go on right now are informal with the backdrop that Spain would rather be beaten to at pulp so that the devs would fix broken mechanics Meanwhile, the U.S. needs to take the rational steps of shoring up its defenses against the Brits and pirates. - agreed

 

No one in Spain gives a shit about your words, only your actions.- our actions have been to try to make peace from the beginning. All other actions were actions of war Those actions are steamrolling Mexico while the British build a base to cut off your new holdings. Outside the echo chamber of U.S. magnanimity (always hazy and dubious in the telling of its origins), did you ever go talk to your nation? They had a meeting of the clans. If you made no attempt to be a part of that should you be judging our operations as dubious and  what you say here ------>the de-facto operations of the U.S. are obviously centered on destroying Spain to the detriment of confronting the powerhouses of Pirates and Britain. 

 

And no one has the foggiest idea about what some guy from RAE said to some guy from the U.S. months ago in Florida. RAE obviously isn't the mouthpiece of the Spanish nation anymore, and all this 'he-said she-said' is ancient history.- its everything. War was declared and Spain never asked for it to stop

Accusing the Spanish of declaring war is pretty dodgy as well. Really? The U.S. never took a single Florida port until someone from RAE was mean? This is somewhat reasonable critique. We were the first to attack a Spanish port. That was on Florida. Spain made moves to shore up Florida by taking its neutral ports. At the beginning there were no relationships between anyone nor were there wars. There was just shoring up territory. Before we were half way down Florida we reached out to Spain about an agreement. A war may have been inevitable if Spain would not have been willing to give up Florida but we were never even given the chance to even talk about it.

 

The U.S. is full of RP-minded people, so why are they waging a Total War? In the politics of the time, a dispute over Florida would lead to just that, a local war for Florida.- ive explained this a thousand times. Please go back and read this thread and the Political Situation thread for clarity. We never and don't want total war.

 

Edit: I'm not blaming you for your negotiation tactics, I'm just informing you of the logical consequence of those efforts. They involve holding your victim down and bludgeoning them while covering your eyes with one hand and melodramatically calling out, "Oh Lord, look what they are making me do to them!" If I was to role play here i would say something like, "Isn't that how every war is won?"

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The two that came to me recently from the Spanish nation were Protyp and Wolf Howl. Both from La Federacion De Comercio. They claimed to represent 10 small to medium sized guilds. I'm sorry I couldn't tell you their names earlier but I did not know what kind of backlash they would suffer from in their nation so I didn't want to release their names without permission. They held a meeting of clans and this is the response I was given yesturday I believe.

 

"We refuse the offers that have been very kind, sticking to the need for the attacks are poorly designed and unbalancing the Spanish nation and is the work of the developers do something about it.
 
Therefore kindly reject the proposed repayment, however if you really want to have fun fighting the ports we offer to change your ports to a time that suits us both sides, yours and Europe.
 
In this way you will obtain defenses and attacks on ports of your property and to our course. We could make a game development fair and balanced. "

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This is the original conversation with Pepepatamo that started this whole ball rolling:

 

Me:

Sent 24 January 2016 - 01:46 AM

Hi Pepeptamo,
Any chance you could take the time to come over and visit with either TDA or TF?
We'd like to clarify the relationship between our clans and yours.
Thanks. Pep.

Pep:

Hi Johny.

Glad to see you. Today its imposible i have many problems with net conection, perhaps tomorrow night for us, evening for you, may be?

Thanks to you.

Me:

Sent 24 January 2016 - 12:19 PM

That would be fine of course. Look forward to talking with you.

Pep:

Sent 24 January 2016 - 01:05 PM

Hi Johny we could talk today, if you want, in your ts.

Me:

Yes that would be good. I will be on later tonight. Is that good.

These are the people authorized to talk with you.

At Tattered Flags:

Thomas Pain (Me)

Steven Decature(boomsplat)

At The Decataur Armada

Northern Wolves

CHustler

We are all informed on the subject. I'm not sure if you have permissions at the moment on our TS. We revamped it recently and if you had them before then you probably don't anymore. We will keep an eye out for you.

We could of course come to your TS if you prefer. Just let me know the info.

Pep:

Sent 25 January 2016 - 03:37 PM

Thomas, glad to read that, but today its imposible to me at the moment, (problems with wife ;)) tomorrow may be?

Me:

No problem. I know our schedules are drastically different so I expected that it would take a few days.

I can get it started on here though.

Our first question can be answered here. We are hearing rumors that RAE has all but declared war on the US. We first wanted to clarify what your status is toward us. We have seen numerous members of the RAE come to our coast in twos and threes and harass our guys. Is this just guys looking for a fun fight or are the rumors true and you want to create greater tension?

Pep:

Sent 25 January 2016 - 08:09 PM

Wrong, two of our three teams are moving to Puerto Rico, to the south of Cuba and the third is on the central coast of Cuba with inexperienced players and blocking the Pirates, so we were not, I would fail to ask the Italian squad belonging to the RAE if they had a fight with your players, but I miss her.

Me:

Sent 26 January 2016 - 02:40 AM

We really don't mind if they want to come up and have a fight or two. We are more concerned about what ports we will be fighting over if it comes to that. It would be nice to concentrate on the pirates. Maybe when we talk we could discuss boundaries?

Pep:

Sent 26 January 2016 - 04:49 AM

If it is not a problem for us if your want to lose a player to have a fight. As the limits discussed ...... only once, hehehehe

Me:

Sent 28 January 2016 - 02:06 PM

I thought you guys were allied with the Brits or at least friends. They attacked another one of your ports. I was surprised.

Pep:

Sent 28 January 2016 - 07:51 PM

Brits captured, Pirates captured, Duch captured, Danish captured, and US CAPTURED TOO, what you said about that?

Me:

Sent 29 January 2016 - 03:28 PM

Are you surprised that the US would want to take Florida? It is the only reasonable direction for us to grow and we start with few ports to begin with. We have taken some Don ports and we will eventually take some French ports as well but we don't want this to be taken as open hostilities toward the Spanish nation or the French. We simply see it as our manifest destiny to control the coast of the US as I would expect that you see it as your destiny to control Cuba. If you will remember, we spoke with your group prior to release and discussed post release relationships. I at that time suggested you fall back to Cuba if your numbers were to low to protect Puerto Rico. I would not have suggested that if we viewed you as our enemy.

We would prefer at this time to work along side you in order to protect our ports and yours and narrow our front lines in one or two directions. I imagine you'd understand that more than we do as you have nations pressing you from every direction.

The lines we envision would be as follows:  For us, the coast of the US all the way to Esteros in Texas and the Northern Bahamas. (Basically the  Bahama ports we hold now). For you, we would stay off Cuba as it is rightfully yours and concede all of the Southern half of the Gulf of Mexico below Esteros and on around through the Yucatan peninsula to you. On top of this you can have the central Bahamas where we can both work on keeping the Pirates in check.

Again, we can make this agreement to protect our respective ports but still allow for ship vs ship conflict if you wish. Also, if you agree to this we could probably arrange a way to protect your Cuba ports. They don't have timers on them at the moment allowing any nation to come and take them when you are offline. If you will pay for the flips then we would possibly be willing to take your ports on Cuba but leave them open to be retaken at your convenience. This would allow you to take them back and set a port timer which will only benefit you.

Accepting this offer will allow your Northern Cuba fleet to concentrate on the pirates without fear of us attacking you when you are away, it will allow you to expand your territory, and your other two fleets can be dispatched to more pressing areas of the map. It will also open the door to more permanent alliances in the future if our two nations find such an alliance mutually beneficial.

 

Pep:

Sent 29 January 2016 - 07:38 PM

Let me give you some advice, stop drugs, you will live better.

 

Me:

Sent 29 January 2016 - 08:54 PM

what about it don't you like?

 

Pep:

Sent 29 January 2016 - 09:54 PM

I am a Spanish head of the DEA, you understand?

 

Me:

Sent 30 January 2016 - 12:12 AM

I think you make a joke. Do I understand correctly?

I am confused by your response to our offer. I thought it was an offer that made sense. I am wondering if I made a statement that could have been taken wrong.

If you don't like the deal then tell me what you think is wrong with it.

If you simply don't want a deal than that is fine to. Just say so.

 

Me Again:

Sent 30 January 2016 - 02:22 AM

Ah, I understand now. I just read the "Political Situation" thread on the forums and see that you all do in fact have an alliance with the British and are very hostile to us if not in a stage of undeclared war with us. So be it. The offer remains if you see the error in your ways.

 

Pep:

Sent 30 January 2016 - 05:36 PM

Only read nonsenses, stop, we shall hunt all american ships that we watch in the next days, and support at english people to defeat you. Its my last word with you.

 

Me:

Sent 30 January 2016 - 07:15 PM

Good Bye.

 

 

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Francis, I thought your argument dumb. I don't think your dumb or a bad guy or anything. Your arguments are all one sided.

 

I think that's where the misunderstanding began. I never made an argument, and I had no particular stance I felt I was defending. I simply made a statement in response to the disbelief that the Spanish would rather continue fighting than make peace. "Well, here's why I think that's the case." It appeared one-sided because it wasn't an argument or a general, wide-spanning condemnation of a group or mechanic as a whole, it was just a statement regarding one particular situation (and it included statements about both sides, not just yours). At any rate, I suspect that's where the miscommunication began.

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"We refuse the offers that have been very kind, sticking to the need for the attacks are poorly designed and unbalancing the Spanish nation and is the work of the developers do something about it.

 

Therefore kindly reject the proposed repayment, however if you really want to have fun fighting the ports we offer to change your ports to a time that suits us both sides, yours and Europe.

 

In this way you will obtain defenses and attacks on ports of your property and to our course. We could make a game development fair and balanced. "

 

Spanish players should play to the best of their abilities and not purposely tank their play to try to gain an advantage built in by the devs. You are confusing game results doing that. It is NOT the work of the developers to distort the game to covet for poor decision making.

Edited by GrapeShot
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