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European traders - explained

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It still is. You just have a small theatre in a global context and incentives for rationality to exist... either prices remain low, or external suppliers take advantage of the local market to supply at their 'best global price'.

 

No it is not. Player sold goods have to compete with European trader prices now. The devs have put a hard cap on the price of goods. If nothing has changed then perhaps you could explain why hemp was going for $800+ last week in the capital and now it is going for $370?

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No it is not. Player sold goods have to compete with European trader prices now. The devs have put a hard cap on the price of goods. If nothing has changed then perhaps you could explain why hemp was going for $800+ last week in the capital and now it is going for $370?

 

Why shouldn't production rise to meet demand?  I am sure you can get it for less than 360, so you can still profit off the backs of your countrymen fighting on the front lines.

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No it is not. Player sold goods have to compete with European trader prices now. The devs have put a hard cap on the price of goods. If nothing has changed then perhaps you could explain why hemp was going for $800+ last week in the capital and now it is going for $370?

 

To actually let people who haven't monopolised the Buy contract of every major resource port play the crafting part of the game perhaps? When people can produce their own resources the monopoly issue goes away, until then this feature needs to be there.

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It certainly does mean that taking a nations  important resource production ports doesn't really matter since all it means is that they have slightly less cheaper oak/hemp/fir.

 

This is the only issue I have with it, detracting from the limited reasons for the conquest mechanics.

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Im very interested in trade options in this game, to make money and buy better battle ships is part of that interest. So, why can you improve the trade ability of players, including levels (or ranks, like "craft levels") for the player? That way, the player can focus in improve trading qualities and grinding levels for it. At each level up, the players can be awarded with better tax rates or something else.

Other thing, idk if already implemented: can i use a NPC for escort my trading ships, or can i escort my own NPC trader ship?

 

Salute all!

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To actually let people who haven't monopolised the Buy contract of every major resource port play the crafting part of the game perhaps? When people can produce their own resources the monopoly issue goes away, until then this feature needs to be there.

 

If there is only 1 shipwright selling ships in your nations capital then I am a monkeys uncle.

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Why shouldn't production rise to meet demand?  I am sure you can get it for less than 360, so you can still profit off the backs of your countrymen fighting on the front lines.

 

I was down at the local pub last night having a drink. I couldn't believe that guy had the nerve to sell me a beer for more then he paid for it. I mean doesn't he know I am his fellow countrymen?

Edited by Long Ben

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I was down at the local pub last night having a drink. I couldn't believe that guy had the nerve to sell me a beer for more then he paid for it. I mean doesn't he know I am his fellow countrymen?

 

But you could have gone and bought it cheaper elsewhere without a contract :)

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Yup! The laws of the market. Eat or be eaten! ;-)

No but we should find a way to manage this via the players and the market.

Explain that way then. This is your third post where you just demand the removal.

I can't think of a way that would solve this as elegantly as the euro traders.

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If there is only 1 shipwright selling ships in your nations capital then I am a monkeys uncle.

 

Taking the extreme approach I see. Replace 1 shipwright with 1% of the population being viable to play "the crafting game".

 

Example: 5 major clans all get together and decide to divy up the ports between them, they all max out the buy orders and horde the resources for themselves (to boost their crafters who are hunting the 1st rate white whale blueprint) other than a small drip feed that gets through to the public market.

 

Hemp, Oak and Iron all goes to 800 per unit (as we saw before people were aware European Traders existed).

Those 5 clans are fine, everyone else is at the mercy of their pricing and effectively banned from ship crafting as their cost for production is never going to be anywhere near the capability for a low sale price of those 5 clans. The huge profits the clans make only serve to further fuel their ability to buy up everything in a nice recurring growth cycle of cash.

 

A nice system for the people on the good end of it, a total waste of time for everyone outside the bubble. At the end of the day it is a game and they have to attempt to make it entertaining for as many people as possible, keeping some semblance of resource accessibility to prevent inflation runaway is a sensible measure until they bring in the personal resource creation which will promote market competition and undercutting to keep prices sensible.

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Taking the extreme approach I see. Replace 1 shipwright with 1% of the population being viable to play "the crafting game".

 

Example: 5 major clans all get together and decide to divy up the ports between them, they all max out the buy orders and horde the resources for themselves (to boost their crafters who are hunting the 1st rate white whale blueprint) other than a small drip feed that gets through to the public market.

 

Hemp, Oak and Iron all goes to 800 per unit (as we saw before people were aware European Traders existed).

Those 5 clans are fine, everyone else is at the mercy of their pricing and effectively banned from ship crafting as their cost for production is never going to be anywhere near the capability for a low sale price of those 5 clans. The huge profits the clans make only serve to further fuel their ability to buy up everything in a nice recurring growth cycle of cash.

 

A nice system for the people on the good end of it, a total waste of time for everyone outside the bubble. At the end of the day it is a game and they have to attempt to make it entertaining for as many people as possible, keeping some semblance of resource accessibility to prevent inflation runaway is a sensible measure until they bring in the personal resource creation which will promote market competition and undercutting to keep prices sensible.

 

Not that different from what the West India Company did back in the day.

 

But, regarding gameplay the European prices are open and exactly the same to everyone. Resources will be shared among all contracts placed in any given town. It is not like any organization can force the traders to sell only to them. If the price is met ( IIRC 3 times base price +1 ) the traders will fill in your contract as well.

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Not that different from what the West India Company did back in the day.

 

But, regarding gameplay the European prices are open and exactly the same to everyone. Resources will be shared among all contracts placed in any given town. It is not like any organization can force the traders to sell only to them. If the price is met ( IIRC 3 times base price +1 ) the traders will fill in your contract as well.

 

I was arguing as to why that exact feature you just detailed needs to remain. The example is what would happen if it was removed (before player resource production is implemented).

As you nicely pointed out, it did happen before and could easily happen again if the Euro Traders were removed. Especially for small nations like Sweden that have very limited access to begin with.

Edited by MalakithSkadi

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It would collapse of course. Higher bidders would absorb entire productions with no chance for lower bidders.

 

As we have, for contracts, is a stable bid pricing which although seems inflated ( 300% +1 ) is the same for every single player.

 

Many trade runs will yield you stock 100% prices. The more population the less resources available at stock prices as more traders make runs.

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Taking the extreme approach I see. Replace 1 shipwright with 1% of the population being viable to play "the crafting game".

 

Example: 5 major clans all get together and decide to divy up the ports between them, they all max out the buy orders and horde the resources for themselves (to boost their crafters who are hunting the 1st rate white whale blueprint) other than a small drip feed that gets through to the public market.

 

Hemp, Oak and Iron all goes to 800 per unit (as we saw before people were aware European Traders existed).

Those 5 clans are fine, everyone else is at the mercy of their pricing and effectively banned from ship crafting as their cost for production is never going to be anywhere near the capability for a low sale price of those 5 clans. The huge profits the clans make only serve to further fuel their ability to buy up everything in a nice recurring growth cycle of cash.

 

A nice system for the people on the good end of it, a total waste of time for everyone outside the bubble. At the end of the day it is a game and they have to attempt to make it entertaining for as many people as possible, keeping some semblance of resource accessibility to prevent inflation runaway is a sensible measure until they bring in the personal resource creation which will promote market competition and undercutting to keep prices sensible.

 

 

I was arguing as to why that exact feature you just detailed needs to remain. The example is what would happen if it was removed (before player resource production is implemented).

As you nicely pointed out, it did happen before and could easily happen again if the Euro Traders were removed. Especially for small nations like Sweden that have very limited access to begin with.

 

That is quite the theory you have there. Since this "did happen before," it makes me wonder how I was able to compete in the past. I've always played solo and never once run into any problems of being able to continue crafting. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

 

In my opinion, if 5 clans are working together to achieve a common goal then they deserve to get ahead for their organization and effort. Why should 1 player be able to match the effort of 100? I do know a couple of crafter's who have been able to boost their crafting level above others, but they have done so by having teammates craft parts for them while they build the ships. In this way they are able spend their crafting hours in the most efficient way possible. Do you also want to see the trading of parts outlawed next? How is it you plan to balance crafter's inside of a clan getting ahead in this way?

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That is quite the theory you have there. Since this "did happen before," it makes me wonder how I was able to compete in the past. I've always played solo and never once run into any problems of being able to continue crafting. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

 

In my opinion, if 5 clans are working together to achieve a common goal then they deserve to get ahead for their organization and effort. Why should 1 player be able to match the effort of 100? I do know a couple of crafter's who have been able to boost their crafting level above others, but they have done so by having teammates craft parts for them while they build the ships. In this way they are able spend their crafting hours in the most efficient way possible. Do you also want to see the trading of parts outlawed next? How is it you plan to balance crafter's inside of a clan getting ahead in this way?

 

Pick up a book on economics, or maybe read a wiki page on it or something.  Even the strongest Laisseze-faire supporters recognize that some mechanism must exists to protect against monopoly and adjust for the deeply morally ambiguous systems pure capitalism leads to without some sort of accountability.  Pure capitalism left unchecked doesn't remain capitalism for long.

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That's good to know, leads to a second question though, is there a way to check what the "max port price" is?

 

Still confused about this. I can't check the max price for (for example) Fir where I am since when selling a unit to port it obviously is going to somebody's contract, so at a loss as to how to find the max port sell price for any given product.

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Pick up a book on economics, or maybe read a wiki page on it or something.  Even the strongest Laisseze-faire supporters recognize that some mechanism must exists to protect against monopoly and adjust for the deeply morally ambiguous systems pure capitalism leads to without some sort of accountability.  Pure capitalism left unchecked doesn't remain capitalism for long.

 

Nowhere in my post did I argue that a monopoly was a good thing for the economy of this game. I find it rich someone so lacking in reading comprehension would recommend me to read a book.  I have only argued that no monopoly exists in the game as had been stated by people in these forums. If you were capable of understanding what it is you read then you would have noticed. Perhaps you might like to take an objective look at the situation and realize that the mechanics to undermine a monopoly already exist within the game and have since day 1.

Edited by Long Ben

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Can someone please list the prices for each good, where the European Traders step in?

As a new player, I have no idea of most of the base prices. The OP indicates that the base price for hemp is 120, which is helpful but where are the rest. I have looked on the forum and wiki and cannot find a listing.

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