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... make the leap of faith and lets end this once and for all. If people want to live in the capitals all the time, let them. I suggest the following changes to how the Zones work - remove the extra zones. One nation one zone, not two separate ones. So no Belize, New Orleans, Campeche. - end the separation between Reinforcement and Capital zones. Make them all the same. - no fishing possible in the Zone - enemy players can press Attack against any ship in the zone - enemy ships cannot enter any ongoing battle happening in the enemy Zone - raiders must stick together and get pulled together, declaration of intent. Press Attack, stick together, no more OW battle invasion easy farming. - zone nation players can call reinforcements as normal when they are attacked - keep as it is now. - player of the Nation zone can enter at any time.
I see it like this: PROBLEM1 New players (and the more casual players) get "ganked," "seal-clubbed," or otherwise sunk by an enemy(s) and leave the game. Population drops, there are less targets for hunters, hunters begin to leave the game, we have a "dead server" (or one where PvP can only be found by those who already know where it is [clan affiliations, experience, etc.], and not the average player). SOLUTION1 Safe Zones!! Big protected areas where you can call in the mega bot fleet as soon as the battle starts to save you from the certain loss of your Insert random ship here to my paper-thin hunting Endymion. Sailing in these waters is almost guaranteed safety. That kind of works, but introduces... PROBLEM2! The majority of players won't leave the safe zones. And why should they when they can get every resource and do all their missions right outside their capital. Talk to players and I bet you'll hear a story similar to this: I haven't left the safe zone alone for any reason since the map-wipe except to hunt PvP, set up PvP outposts, or to sail to my alt's outpost (about 20 minutes from my main character's capital). I have no reason to leave the safe zone other than those or some clan-affiliated action. Think about it: I can get every resource that I need right there in the protected zone, or else from my alt; I can do all the combat missions I would want to right there as well, why leave it? To be a target for some other PvPer? No way, I like to be the hunter not the hunted, I will go out of my way to not be a target for enemies any more than I have to be. This causes an equally bad problem: PvP goes down, player population goes down, hunters stop playing, we might as well re-name the server PvP light (mostly PvE but some PvP occasionally). OVERALL SOLUTION Maybe its been suggested before or maybe it hasn't (I don't recall seeing it yet, but if you came up with it before me, say something so I can give credit where credit is due), but here is my suggestion to fix the problem. Assume all other ROE stay the same (3 minute join, invisibility, cooldowns, etc.) BR-based reinforcements in the safe-zone: If you are the defender in your home safe-zone (did not press "attack") and you have less than 1.5x the BR of your attacker, you can call in AI reinforcements to give you up to 1.5x the BR of the attacker. You can only call those reinforcements after 3 minutes and the battle is closed, preventing teammates from joining your side, but no later than 4 minutes into the battle (so you have a 1 minute opportunity to call AI reinforcements). This gives defenders a chance to call on AI to help them if their fellow captains cannot assist them in time, but it still encourages players to sail with others so that you aren't working with a 1.5x BR AI limitation in the battle. If you are the attacker in your home safe zone (you pressed "attack") you do not get any AI reinforcements, no matter what the BR is. If you cannot fight that enemy, then you should not be attacking it. The Admiralty frowns upon incompetence and does not intend to supply you with a fleet to attack enemies near your capital. AI reinforcements are for defensive purposes of weaker targets only. If you are the defender in your home waters (did not press attack) and you have more than 1.5x the BR of your attacker, you cannot call in AI reinforcements. The Admiralty frowns upon incompetence. AI reinforcements are for defensive purposes of weaker targets only, and the Admiralty hopes that you can handle a ship that you out-rate by more than 1.5x BR. Lets see a few examples of this: Pirate in Surprise at Charleston (US): 140 BR attacks US in Endymion 225 BR. No reinforcement available, since the Endymion has more than 210 BR (1.5x the BR of the Surprise). Pirate in Surprise at Port Royale (GB): 140 BR attacks GB in Trader's Brig 10 BR. 200 BR of reinforcements available to the British captain, since 210 BR - 10 BR = 200 BR (the difference between the defender's BR and 1.5x the attacker's BR). In this case, the British skipper may get any combination of ships (AI gets to decide by using the lowest number [therefore, largest ships] of ships that will reach that BR [maybe there can be some kind of allowance for + or - 10 BR either way on the AI reinforcements, with the decision being made by using the least number, but largest size of AI ship that will fit the requirement]) that add to 200 BR. In this instance, he would get an Essex and a Lynx (180+20BR). Pirate in Surprise 140 BR attacks French Bellona 400 BR in the Mortimer Protected zone (Pirate). No reinforcements available: don't attack what you cannot fight and then expect the admiralty to save you. With that system: You protect the defenders in their home waters (as long as they are in a ship that needs additional protecting from their attacker). You allow the attackers to still have their PvP if they are a bit more cautious. You encourage players to work together and help each other out, but provide protection for when they don't (most people would prefer to have unlimited player reinforcements jump in within that 3 minute time that the battle is open rather than deal with the "creative" AI on their side). You prevent the griefing that would arise if a home-waters captain could use a smaller ship to tag a larger enemy in the protected zones and call on AI reinforcements to waste the hunter's time. You discourage the PvP hunters from attacking new players because those new players can call on heavy reinforcements to combat their attackers. Possible tweaks: if 1.5x BR proves too little, or too much BR, then it may need adjusting. I think the "sweet spot" would be between 1.5x BR and 2x BR of the attacker. I'm sure there are a lot of threads about this, I've read a few of them, but I don't recall seeing a suggestion quite like this. Lets try to keep this thread civil and not start calling each other noobs or "bad at the game because you can't handle AI" or "killing the game because you PvP near capitals" or anything like that. I have noticed that quite a few of these combat mechanics suggestions regarding PvP near capitals often devolve to that kind of discussion. Lets do our best to avoid that in this discussion. Thoughts?
This might be the most modified game mechanic until now and I would like to share some more ideas here. I have seen in different threads similar ideas, and here is my total RoE package for a robust, fun and sustainable PvP environment on the open sea. The Concept: The main difference here for the initiation of OS engagements is, that the location is not only factor for determining the allocation of ships in the instance, but also the time itself. So, basically after the OS attacking, the instance is created. And any ship, outside this first initiation circle, would be joining to the instance as reinforcements. Until this point, it is similar to the current system. The reinforcements on the other hand, would be again positional according to their open sea location, but the reinforcements would be relative further away to the engaging ships in the instance. I would like to use here the term cutter minutes, similar to light years, the distance a cutter would cover in one minute. For example, the first joiner would start in that instance 6 cutter minutes away (outer rims of orange circle) from the engaging ships. The reinforcement who joins after one minute of the start of the instance would be 6+1 minutes away (outer rims of green circle); the one who joins after 2 minutes of initiation would start 6+2 minutes away and so on. As a result, the more late you join a battle, the further away you would spawn from the initial battle location in the instance. What would this allow for the game? The open sea battle instances could stay open for much longer times instead of just 2 minutes, which would increase the dynamism and activity of the open sea and rendering it more lively. This would not end ganks, but if a captain is ganked close to a friendly port, there might be a chance for reinforcements to arrive at the horizon On the other hand, it might also lay the groundwork for a good organized gank, using the positional reinforcement. However, the distance to reinforcement point depending on timer (6 + x minutes) would still give a chance for the ganked captain. No BR limits Smooth transition from open sea to the instance Need and thrill of searching the horizon not only in open sea but also in the instance Attack Circle and Timer: The attack circle on open sea could be adjusted. A relative smaller circle and shorter timer, would increase the importance of the open sea positioning and engaging. Keeping the Target in Battle: At the current state, if you land a cannonball from 800 yard distance on the sails or hull and inflict some damage, you would reset the battle timer for the target. In most cases, this would result in a very long and boring chasing situation. The current tagging mechanism also gives opportunity to the griefers. To prevent those, a damage threshold could be applied like the need of inflicting minimum 1% damage to sails (or hull) to be able to reset the battle timer for the target. Similar measures were also taken in PotBS to prevent griefing. Even in the worst gank scenario, this would give the gankers at least several chances to attack the target for resetting the timer, whereas, the target also keeps its fair chance to be able to run away and click out. Instance Join Timer for Reinforcements: The timer for reinforcements could be easily increased in this concept. I would say a time between 5 and 10 minutes might be the optimal point. Ship Polars: Minor changes to the directional speed limits should be made according to the gameplay instead of realism here, I think. This means appointing different best speed directions for different ships, so that every ship could overtake others at a specific direction or similar to that. If we look below graph, Trincomalee curve (orange) is a good example being at some directions more slow and at some directions relative faster. In conclusion, I think all those rules together would render the open world much more lively and active place for PvP and RvR compared to the current situation.
Gav posted a topic in Current Feature Improvement SuggestionsI think reinforcements (especially on the PvP servers) should take time to turn up. This time should be dependant on the range from their local town. So if i catch someone just on the edge of the reinforcement zone then the ships should take 30 minutes to turn up, but if i'm right by the harbour when i attach someone then their reinforcements should turn up in 2 minutes. Crosbie
Reinforcements behind lines
Superdelic posted a topic in General DiscussionsI was playing single-player today, trying to stop a big counter-attack by the Union. I was doing well, slowly pushing forwards on them while still holding my line and VPs, but all of a sudden 3 infantry brigades and 4 artillery brigades reinforced them from WAY behind my lines. I had no reinforcements coming and they easily were able to go straight to my back VPs and take them before I could respond. Reinforcements zones need to change based on where the battle positions are, it's just ridiculous having 7 units spawn behind you, right by your VP. Either that needs to change, or at LEAST the mini map during briefing needs to state where these zones are, so we can accomodate it in our strategy. Completely ruined the fun of the battle.