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Found 6 results

  1. asuspiciousbear

    Repairs are far too powerfull

    The biggest issue in combat is how much and how quickly we are able to rebuild our ships and sprout new masts(often more than once) half way through a battle. I think its especially demoralizing for new players who see all the damage they do undone. Combat is basically seeing who will run out of repairs first. Instead of removing repairs, change the damage to a tier system, I.E. once your hull or sail goes below 75% you cant repair above that, then again for 50% getting a smaller max as you go lower to represent the struggle of an increasingly damaged ship: 40%- 20%- 15% It would maintain the essence of reality while keeping it fun to play. It would also give battle sails their purpose back. On another note, when you go into rigging shock the sails should go wild instead of staying in whatever position they are in at the time as uncontrolled sails like to do as they please.
  2. Rob

    Historical ship development

    Hi, I am very interested in the development of the shape of a ship hull between 1600-1800. I have been searching the internet but cant seem to find what i want. I will sum up some question and i hope someone can help me. Wouldnt it be interesting to discuss this topic? 1. How did the shape of the bow, hull and stern develop in this period? 2. What are the most common design for ships in that period? and not just for ship of the line or frigates but for all open water vessels. 3. What does i certain shape mean for the perfomance? What are the advantages and disadvantage of certain designs? I hope this will start a discussion, because i cant be the only one interested in this.
  3. Infremo

    Ship damage realism?

    I'm not sure if this has been listed, but perhaps the ship could be properly damaged from the cannon fire from an enemy? To the point where you can see inside the other ship and watch the destruction of your own ship happen. Examples: a cannon ball hits the guardrail on ship. A segment of the guardrail gets blown off. a cannon ball hits the hull in a specific spot, there is now a hole in that spot where you can see the inside of that ship. I hope you understand what I'm getting at. Personally I think physics for the ship being damaged is a instant buy from me. If you incorporated that and wood flying all over the place from the cannons, I'd buy this game in a heartbeat. Does anyone else like this idea?
  4. Here is our presentation on the USS Constitution's innovative and heavy built hull and how we would like to see it represented currently and in the final damage model as the 'super heavy frigate' that it is. "The ultimate intention of this research and presentation is to assist Game Labs by providing unimpeachable empirical data, in improving and enhancing the quality of the final product which will not only improve the historical accuracy of the game and increase its playability, but also, by extension, the reputation of Game Labs and its community of fans." We ask for no flaming or responding to flaming and to read it if you are going to debate the contents, for or against, because it will be obvious to those who have read it when someone who hasn't comments extensively. Hope you enjoy and let the discussion begin. USS Constitution: Armor, hull thickness, framing & material and it's representation in Game Lab's Naval Action Citations are viewable by hovering over or clicking on the yellow quotations Video: http://www.smithsonianchannel.com/videos/how-to-stop-a-cannonball/17510
  5. Update: I originally was looking at the old XML files and so the title of this thread is not accurate, I have updated the post accordingly. I knew it didn't add up with what we see in game, that's why I'd asked about possible hidden attributes, but no, it was just the wrong XML files However, my position that the Constitutions HP is far below what it should be still stands and here is some evidence for that. This may be the most in depth feedback I have given to the developers about this amazing game that we all love, but it is the most heartfelt opinion I have yet offered. The Constitutions armor and hit point rating does not match the physics of the wood and framing used on this ship. It doesn't match what is commonly known and accepted, nor the physics. Her armor rating doesn't represent a 2200 ton super heavy frigate with a 21 inch thick hull made of Southern Live and White Oak, built with the scantling scheme of a 74, zero space framing, innovative diagonal riders, lock scarfing and heavy Live Oak knees .

 The HMS Victory at the waterline has only 3 more inches of wood and it is made of the five times less dense and weaker English Oak. In fact the 21 inch maximum thickness I use is merely the most commonly repeated number, the wikipedia number, but the US Naval Historical Center states she has 25 inches at the waterline and that the 21 inches is the hull average! Let’s start with some details.

 Southern Live Oak, Quercus virginiana, indigenous to the Southeastern United States, is world renown for it’s strength and density. In fact even today the architectural formula for load bearing beams and walls allows for a reduction by up to 1/6th when using Southern Live Oak in place of any other type of oak! The hull and load framing construction of the USS Constitution was Live and White oak, with Live being the most predominant in the framing. With the Bellona and Victory it was English Oak. White Oak even is much stronger than both Red and English Oak. Furthermore the Constitution was built with zero spacing between her frame timbers, while the Bellona for example had 30 inches and the space was packed with soft woods such as pine and elm and most other frigates had between 8 and 10 inches spacing.

 If the speed of a ball during penetration was about 200 m/s, the velocity of the stress wave would be about 3000 m/s. The larger the space and the less dense the material between the spaces the more susceptible the whole structure is to the stress wave once the projectile has pierced roughly 2 inches into the wood. The density and hardness of the wood at the impact point and behind the impact point directly affects the deceleration rate and determines the share of energy that is absorbed in the penetration process. 

In short, the zero spaced supports in the USS Constitution and it’s construction of Live and White Oak would decelerate a penetration projectile much more rapidly than would the constructions of the Victory and the Bellona. Further, the denser and stronger Live and White Oak would be able to absorb the projectiles energy more rapidly and locally, reducing the structural damage the round could give. Simple physics states that a harder, denser target face, supported by harder, denser and more closely framed support is unsurprisingly harder to destroy. Splintering was a major source of crew casualties and even projectiles that did not fully penetrate could create a hail of splinters. Southern Live and White Oak's properties, specifically it's superior elastic modulus rating, are much more resistant to splintering than English Oak when hit with high speed projectiles. The one inch of total thickness difference between the Constitution and the Bellona and the three inches of difference with the Victory (or if the US Navy is to be referenced, the one inch difference with the Victory and the two inch superiority of the Constitution over the Bellona) would and should not account for the 2,391 and 3,402 point differences, respectively, in side armor values, even if the Constitution itself was made of the same English Oak. Its superior framing design alone, even if it had the same oak, would see it absorbing and surviving the exact same shot as the Bellona with less penetration and damage. Also it is to be noted that the amount of iron bolts and copper nails used in a single piece of planking of the Constitution accounted for an average of 25% of it’s weight, which British contractors also copied when they set about building their own super heavy frigates, determining that the Constitutions 3.3% of the face surface of the timber being occupied by bolts provided a high density of reinforcement to the hull that helped stop gun shots. Damage models I am aware that the current damage model takes into account the size of the ship and it’s overall structural mass and that damage model 4.0 will be of a completely different type. However when it is designed, it surely must take into account the details of what made ‘Old Ironsides’ such a powerful frigate and that wasn't just anecdotal evidence and the response of the British admiralty, who, when designing their own heavy frigates copied more than just the gun load out, (redesigned their framing to mimic the Constitution's), but it must take into account of the known physics of the wood and the framing. Even from 1811 forward the British 2nd and 3rd rates framing was changed using techniques found on the Constitution. The superiority of Southern Live and White Oak over English Oak as armor and structural framing I know the immediate response of many will be 'but the 74 has to be more powerful than a frigate!' First of all physics do not follow preconceived hierarchical arrangements we all make and are guilty of. It should be what it is and the devil is in the details. The fact remains that the 74's and even the 64's will still have a superior weight of broadside regardless of what is done to the armor, and captains being equal, will still have a clear advantage over the Constitution, and a cautious Constitution captain would wisely use his ships speed to decline a 1v1 with a Bellona on the open world sea.