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  1. The state of cannons right now is a little unusual, and while it has been ok for the game to this point, the upcoming Wreker and Téméraire class ships currently in development are likely to change this and we are soon likely to see a risk of the game balance being rocked in the future, with both Téméraire and Wreker able to equip 36s and with Wreker somewhat more notably likely able to equip 32s on her second deck. Under the game mechanics as they are this means that both these ships would be able to also equip the heaviest standard armament in the game, the 42lb cannon, which a potentially creats some weird looking situations where we have people running around in 3rd rates with 42lb guns or we end up rating Téméraire as a 2nd rate, neither are desirable outcomes in my opinion. I would like to propose breaking up 36s and 42s. As I understand it the cannons in question are based off the British 42lb and the French 36lb, who's shot weights are as follows: British 42lb: Shot weight 19.026kg, Gun Weight 3957kg (short cut 42 from Victory, standard would be heavier) French 36lb: Shot weight 17.064kg, Gun Weight 3643kg (standard long 36 from Boudroit's figures) With the accessibility of cannon classes currently set up like this: 42lb, 36lb 32lb 24lb 18lb, Edinorog 12lb 9lb N/A 6lb 4lb 4lb Basic 2lb This is somewhat of a bizarre set up in two areas, 1st and 7th class. 1st class is bizarre as the only class to contain two distinctly different gun weightings, while 7th class is even more illusive due to the fact it contains no cannons at all, only the 18lb carronade. What would make infinitely more sense to the game would be to rerate everything slightly so as to have cannon classes set up as follows. 42lb 36lb 32lb 24lb 18lb, Edinorog 12lb 9lb 6lb 4lb 4lb Basic 2lb The other benefits of this is you could reassess which ships could potentially equip each class of cannon more precisely, potentially leaving the most powerful 42lb for Pavel, Victory and leaving Ocean, Santissima, Téméraire, Bucentaure and Wreker equipped with the slightly smaller calibre of 36lb gun, this would not only give a slightly more realistic historic armament flavour but also create a nice little way to look at balance more seriously, with the 36lb gun being a little worse on the DPS, which allows both Pavel and Victory to be more competitive amongst their similarly rated ships, hopefully promoting more variety in combat. As a little side note I'm uncertain whether Ocean would be able to carry 42s or not, the 300kg difference between the French 36 and the British shortest variant of the 42 isn't hugely significant to a ship the size of Ocean although it would be a nice balance point, meanwhile I severely doubt Santissima would be able to mount the British 42 safely, had she not been wrecked in the storm and then enlisted into the British fleet following Trafalgar I can't see her being armed with anything heavier than the British 32s. To summarise, please could we consider splitting the 42 and 36lb guns up into separate classes to avoid potential balance issues with the current ships in development but also add more flavour and realistic armaments to the various ships we already have in game for the pursuit of balance and accuracy. Thanks for reading.
  2. Hardworking developers I think it's good that you can improve your skills at the shipyard. However, I find the making of cannons also worthy of appreciation. 1. Depending on the type of gun should in my opinion also "XP" points are awarded. Finally, you spend resources and work points on it. The number of operating points for the final production would be e.g. a reasonable amount of "XP" points. These acquired XP points are credited to the "Level Account", as in shipbuilding. 2. The image mask (UI) could also get a subdivision / sorting in the "classes of cannons". 3. I think I've read before that you could also introduce a "bonus by accident" in the production of cannon, as in shipbuilding. That a cannon can continue to shoot or endure some more powder charge ... etc ... Could you bring something like that into the game? (German texts are always translated with the help of Google.) Fleißige Entwickler, ich finde es gut, dass man in der Schiffswerft seine Fähigkeiten aufbessern kann. Allerdings finde ich das Herstellen von Kanonen auch einer Würdigung wert. 1. Je nach Kanonentyp sollten meiner Meinung nach auch "XP"-Punkte vergeben werden. Schließlich gibt man dafür Ressourcen und Arbeitspunkte aus. Die Anzahl an Arbeitspunkte für die Endproduktion entspräche z.B. einem angemessenem Wert an "XP"-Punkten. Diese erworbenen XP-Punkte werden auf das "Level-Konto" angerechnet, so wie beim Schiffsbau. 2. Die Bildmaske (UI) könnte auch eine Unterteilung / Sortierung in den "Klassen der Kanonen" erhalten. 3. Ich glaube hier schon mal gelesen zu haben, dass man auch einen "Bonus per Zufall" bei der Herstellung von Kanonen einführen könnte, so wie beim Schiffsbau. Dass eine Kanone weiter schießen kann oder etwas mehr Pulverladung aushält ... usw... Könnte man so was noch in das Spiel hineinbringen?
  3. Hey guys. I was just wondering which are the best at the moment and is there a way to get the stats out of the game files, especially for cannister range? I think Witworth and 20pdr Parrots are the best if you only look at the stats, but are they cost effective? Some patches ago the Napoleons were considered the most cost effective cannons, but a friend of mine noticed their cannister range seems rather short now.
  4. This german dude made some pretty cool relevant vids many here would like. Here is one of them:
  5. Hi all, I am sure this has been suggested before, but wanted to suggest it once more to bring it back to public attention. Currently, the mechanism for demasting and damaging sails is far too basic and, historically speaking, unrealistic. Very rarely was a ship demasted because the mast itself was struck by balls - it happened because the rigging was destroyed and it was therefore unsupported. Sometimes, just a single extremely lucky shot could cripple a ship. I would suggest that the mechanism for this be addressed and a movement be made to make it somewhat more realistic in both terms of potential damage, and in that done by wind and force. What I mean by this is that, once a certain amount of damage was done, dependent on the weather, it became dangerous to be under full sail (of course, depending on weather, it was dangerous to be under full sail without any damage in very poor weather). This should be simulated as well. Additionally, it is not at all historically accurate for every battle to necessarily be able to be fought at full speed with the wind always blowing the ideal force. I would therefore also propose that wind force be variable in combat (not in the open world). It was common, particularly in the large fleet battles, for the lineships to become somewhat stationary and grouped together due to weak wind. This would actually make positioning and captain skill even more important, as whatever sailing decision you made would have a tremendous effect on the outcome of the battle, and likewise more accurately model how in some battles an inferior force defeated a superior opponent. Thanks for your consideration.
  6. Cannon 42lb Cannon Long/Medium 50m 140/129 100m 135/125 250m 125/115 500m 109/100 750m 94/87 1000m 81/75 Damage 48/50 ---> 49/51 Reload 71/65 ---> 76/71 Penetration of the 42lb gun remains untouched, but reload times are increased to reflect the fact that this gun has the same crew size as the lighter 32 pdr. Victory only, other 1st/2nd rates should use 36lb guns. 36lb Cannon Long/Medium 50m 133/124 ---> 136/127 100m 131/121 ---> 133/123 250m 119/110 ---> 122/113 500m 102/95 ---> 106/101 750m 88/81 ---> 91/84 1000m 74/69 ---> 78/73 Damage 47/49 ---> 48/50 Reload 70/64 ---> 75/70 French 36 livre gun fires 39lb shot, stats are tuned to be closer to the 42lb cannon. Replaces 42lb cannon on l'Ocean, Santisima, Bucentaure and Pavel. 32lb Cannon Long/Medium 50m 129/120 ---> 131/122 100m 126/117 ---> 128/119 250m 114/107 ---> 116/109 500m 98/92 ---> 100/94 750m 85/79 ---> 87/81 1000m 71/66 ---> 72/67 Damage 46/48 Reload 69/63 ---> 64/59 Sustained reload of the 32lb gun through fatigue and crew loss was much better than the larger 42lb gun, as a result the Royal Navy started replacing 42s with 32s on all 1st rates. Both French and American Navies came to similar conclusions after wartime experience, the US adopted 32lb guns in various types for almost their entire fleet, while the french replaced their existing calibers with a system of 30 livre (33lb) guns. Reload of the 32lb gun has therefore been raised to reflect this advantage over the 42 pdr and the similar 36livre (39lb) cannon. 24lb Cannon Long/Medium 50m 120/112 ---> 126/117 100m 116/109 ---> 123/114 250m 106/99 ---> 111/104 500m 90/84 ---> 96/88 750m 75/70 ---> 82/77 1000m 62/58 ---> 65/60 Damage 44/46 Reload 63/58 ---> 61/56 Tuned values to maintain a correct relationship between 18 -> 24 -> 32lb calibers. 18lb Cannon Long/Medium 50m 110/102 ---> 118/112 100m 107/99 ---> 115/107 250m 95/88 ---> 105/99 500m 80/74 ---> 88/82 750m 65/60 ---> 73/68 1000m 53/49 ---> 58/54 Damage 42/44 Reload 58/53 Currently 18 pdrs lack penn fighting SoL, penetration values have been raised to make them viable in line of battle as the 18pdr is supposed to be effective against SoL out to medium combat ranges. No major changes suggested to 12 pdr and smaller cannon as these are performing accurately to historical description. Carronades Penn values are currently a good deal too high, indeed many carronades have higher penetration than the smaller caliber long guns they can replace. For example, the 32lb carronade has equal penetration to the 24lb long gun, and superior to the 24lb medium and 18lb long guns. Since combat in naval action is very dependent on having sufficient penetration, carronades are heavily superior to long guns in almost every role to the point that ships which aren't allowed to carry carronades are badly disadvantaged. Carronades should be competing with much smaller cannon, 32lb carronade vs 9lb cannon etc, not with similar caliber long guns. The most common carronade caliber (32lb) could only penetrate the hull of a SoL at short range and could quite easily find itself outside effective range, as evinced by the Constitution coming back with 32lb carronade shot lodged in the hull after fighting Cyane and Levant at medium ranges. Proposed carronade penn values as follows. 68lb Carronade 50m 159 ---> 120 100m 154 ---> 111 250m 141 ---> 95 500m 107 ---> 74 750m 10 ---> 55 1000m 0 ---> 25 Damage 81 Reload 50 ---> 65 42lb Carronade 50m 129 ---> 96 100m 125 ---> 93 250m 111 ---> 85 500m 83 ---> 70 750m 7 ---> 53 1000m 0 ---> 24 Damage 50 ---> 52 Reload 49 ---> 54 Restrict to Constitution and Indefatigable. Although a great deal more manageable than the 42lb cannon, does suffer from some of the same problems due to weight of shot fatiguing loaders. 36lb Carronade NEW TYPE 50m 95 100m 92 250m 83 500m 69 750m 53 1000m 24 Damage 51 Reload 52 Substitute for the 42lb carronade on l'Ocean, Santisima, Bucentaure, and Pavel. Like 36 Livre gun is really a 39lb shot. 32lb Carronade 50m 119 ---> 93 100m 115 ---> 90 250m 102 ---> 83 500m 73 ---> 68 750m 6 ---> 50 1000m 0 ---> 22 Damage 48 Reload 47 24lb Carronade 50m 111 ---> 91 100m 106 ---> 88 250m 94 ---> 80 500m 66 ---> 65 750m 5 ---> 47 1000m 0 ---> 20 Damage 46 Reload 43 18lb Carronade 50m 101 ---> 89 100m 96 ---> 86 250m 83 ---> 77 500m 55 ---> 62 750m 3 ---> 43 1000m 0 ---> 17 Damage 44 Reload 40 12lb Carronade 50m 90 ---> 80 100m 84 ---> 76 250m 71 ---> 65 500m 44 ---> 50 750m 2 ---> 30 1000m 0 ---> 12 Damage 41 Reload 33 Above values are loosely based around the 12lb long gun, as this performs similar to how carronades should be working (effective vs SoL at point blank, rapidly falls out of effective range). Cannon classes could be reshuffled to allow the 36lb it's own class and avoid having to designate certain guns being for different ships.
  7. I asked this question some years ago now and never really got an accurate answer, I'm now wondering if any of the history buffs of these dear forums could expand upon what info I was offered. The Question: What first-rate ship of line sunk, then had it's cannon recovered and melted down? I've been reading about the HMS Victory (1737) found by Odyssey in the English channel, 2009. They found 42lb bronze cannon, the only existing cannon of this type on dry land. Though they mention another ship with similar ordnance that was recovered and melted down as scrap. discovery.com - "The site Odyssey has identified is one of only two first-rates whose ordnance has ever been located underwater. However, almost all of the bronze guns from the other site were melted down as scrap in the late 18th and 19th centuries." I want to know the name of the above mentioned ship and have read-up on several first-rates with similar cannon but none mention the fate of the cannon. Was it the HMS Royal George (1756), HMS Sovereign of the Seas or some other ship.... Can anyone fill me in here? Some updates since I asked the question: Now, I don't claim to know any more than you guys (In fact it's very likely, much less) but the quote states that the guns were melted down in the 18th century. This would rule out the Cambrian (wrecked in 1828) and probably the Queen Charlotte (sank on March 17, 1800) ... It also states the other ship was, like the Victory, a First-rate, ruling out the Colossus (third rate) & Invincible (1747) (third rate). "The wreck is one of only two first-rates whose ordnance has ever been located underwater, the other having been salvaged in the late 18th century. However, unfortunately almost all of the bronze guns from the other ship were melted down as scrap in the late 18th and 19th centuries. " - http://shipwreck.net/hmsvictoryfaqs.php The link to my origonal question some 3 years ago - https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120302104832AAT0p0J If anyone has any additional info I would greatly appreciate it
  8. Same procedure as on the Bucentaure. Physical main gun Deck (24pd guns) is below the visual gun deck ... 18pd and 9p gun deck are fine. Please fix this.
  9. The following address will take you to pages concerning British Ordinance for the 17th and 18th centuries. Lots of info for casual interest, and those having mathematical minds interested in such things as muzzel velocities and ball trajectories. If you're interested in Naval Action there should be info for each of us to glean. I hope these can be of interest and help answer many historical questions. Enjoy. http://www.arc.id.au/Cannonballs.html
  10. Post any cannon pictures or blueprints.
  11. Today I noticed two gunports on the Victory that have Rigging infront. Firing Cannons woul be very hard in real life if you have lots of ropes dangling infront of your cannon, I guess.
  12. So this guide came out recently that organized some of the more hidden (especially before this patch) values for guns. What immediately jumped out to me was that most of the bigger long guns have the same penetration values (as well as the 4-9 pdrs). Now I have heard that this data is not necessarily up to date at all (the recent patch notes seem to confirm that, but they may simply reference a change in penetration mechanics across the board rather than a change to individual guns relative to each other). However, I was trying out an under-crewed connie after the patch and found the 24 pdrs really didn't do anything more than 18 pdrs. A friend and I were playing some missions and he was running a trinc, so we could compare directly how many shots we were penning and how much damage we were doing(using ctrl-L). Against the same targets it appeared that we penned about the same ratio of shots and he seemed to consistently do a little more damage. I have since switched my connie over to 18s and continue to find that they are as effective and sometimes even more effective than the 24s were. All of this is to ask: If the penetrations of guns are grouped up like this...why do we want larger guns? Would not the best pen and dpm combos be the best?
  13. victor_vd1

    Cannon glitch

    Hey guys i need help with something, i am new to the game so i do not know allot. but i was looking in the harbor how things work. So i did sellect my cannons and threw them in my warehouse. now the problem. When i try to get them back in they pop in ( like they used to do) but in a split second after throwing them in they pop out again back to the warehouse. I do not have a ship now. i do not know what to do : ( can someone help me plz? i do not own any other ships
  14. I'm not sure if this has been listed, but perhaps the ship could be properly damaged from the cannon fire from an enemy? To the point where you can see inside the other ship and watch the destruction of your own ship happen. Examples: a cannon ball hits the guardrail on ship. A segment of the guardrail gets blown off. a cannon ball hits the hull in a specific spot, there is now a hole in that spot where you can see the inside of that ship. I hope you understand what I'm getting at. Personally I think physics for the ship being damaged is a instant buy from me. If you incorporated that and wood flying all over the place from the cannons, I'd buy this game in a heartbeat. Does anyone else like this idea?
  15. I recall a lecture by one of my first history professors concerning New World trade and war. More specifically he was discussing the phenomena of English Imperialism of the time. The lecture ranged from trade to warfare and from locations from the colonies to the East Indies. However it was one detail that caught my attention: the unique status of English Iron. The professor asserted that one of the elements of English success was the uniqueness of their iron. He claimed that the iron found in England contained fewer impurities and when smelted down and sequentially molded into cannon, it meant that English cannon were far superior to other Nations' as English cannon would last longer, were more durable, and could handle more stress (less exploding cannon scenarios). This meant that English cannon could also handle slightly larger powder charges, resulting in slightly farther range/velocity, among other things. The text assigned to us made no mention of this detail, nor have I seen a reference to this anywhere else. I was wondering if any of you have come across something similar. And if the above case is true, could/should some in-game mechanic/national perk be implemented? Cheers, William Drummond, the Drake.
  16. Fellow Captains and Honorable Admirals, I apologize for putting this in general discussions. This may even be covered already I am enquiring about how dificult it will be to dismount our enemies' cannons in relation to their size. While chosing my cannon weight and showing the constructor to a friend, they asked, "Does the size of the cannon affect how easily they are destroyed?" I had no good answer and look for it here. I have not noticed enemy cannons, nor even my own, being knocked out of commision very often, let alone at a different rate for different gun sizes. A larger gun would require more volume of space, including the tools required to operate the weapon effectively. Even a 6 pound ball could disable a heavy gun if directly hitting a carrriage, wheel, harness, block or even barrel. Not to mention the crew. The question isn't the damage a shot would do to the gun but how easy can it be hit in the first place. There should be a correlation to how large the game's "hit box" is for cannons. This is not a very important issue as the battle mechanics are already extremely enjoyeable and I understand sea trials 2 is officially over, but this could be implemented before the final product if it is not already on the schedule.
  17. I know there has been discussions about double shot previously. See locked thread here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2123-double-shot-op-or-not/?hl=double+shot However I still think the range of double shot is overstated. From my reading double shot was only used at extremely close range – pistol shot range or less, generously 50 yds. By double shot I mean what we have in game, i.e.; double round shot rather than round behind grape which was used in quarterdeck guns, but also for extremely close action. From what I have seen in game and experimented with in PVE it seems you can hit with double out to 200+ yds. I just saw a post about using long guns can add 50-100 yds to the range as well. It certainly seems that loading double is very common in the game at the moment. I am hopeful the DM 4.0 will take care of the accuracy, but I would think that even if you managed to hit at longer ranges the damage would be minimal due to the small charge used and angle (The RN proscribed a 1/3 charge for double shot - AFAIK). Anyone have any thoughts on the range of double?
  18. Even on smooth/Sea state reasonably calm maps I have noticed that the Santissima's lowest gundeck is not available to fire even before shots are exchanged, even when it is heeling which should raise the gundecks targetting height. eg wind from starboad beam firing starboard gundeck. Santi - lower gundeck 42 lber. Sea state calm. Has anyone else encountered this ?
  19. Hello I have ben playing naval action for about a week now and i love it, I have notice that you have, the battle of trafalgar in as a battle option. It is great fun. So i was hoping to see mor historical battles in the game. And since i am a dane the first battle that comes to mind, is the battle of copenhagen, The british was attack copgenhagen, the the danish fleet was defending, so it could be some some attack defend game play. Mayeb something like if the brist get to much damage to copenhagen they win or something like that. As you can see on the old battle map how the fleet is line up in a good way to start the battle with the british coming in and the danes waiting in line, and the just some scenery that look like old cophagen in the distance More Painting form the battle And a little video abourt the battle - Nelsons hardest battle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6AU6gIW0q8 Sorry for bad spelling, my enlish nor danish in not so good. Hope you will consider this suggention Great work so far!
  20. I'm currently in a brig, and grinding my way to a snow, and have been reading all I can about multiple decks. I have a few questions. I hope someone here can help me with one or all of the answers. Firstly, I have a question about ranging your shot. Does the ranging shot ALWAYS come from the foremost cannon on your upper deck (assuming that all cannons on all levels are fully loaded)? If this is the case, I imagine you'd have to aim very slightly higher, as if you landed this ranging shot right on the waterline, the majority of your shots will fall short, as they come from lower decks. If this is wildly off target, and you wished to range another shot, does it then progress towards the stern, selecting the next cannon etc? Secondly, can you load different ammunution in different decks? If you can block all other decks (temporarily), and (for instance) only have the upper deck available (by selecting F2, F3 and F4), and load one type of ammunition, then make another deck available and lock out the upper deck and load another type of ammunition, is that possible. I don't think realistically that loading the Upper deck guns with chain shot, the next deck with grapeshot, and then single shot and maybe double shot for the lower two decks is feasible, but it might be an interesting experiment for close-in fighting. Double shot has poor point blank range, and so would only be loaded in the lower deck in that fashion for extreme close range fighting. Thirdly, can you alter your cannons on different decks, and have long barrelled 6 pounders in the lower decks, and range up to carronandes on the upper deck? Realistically, I think it might help if you had cannon with the longest Point Blank range in the lower decks, as you don't want shot there to fall at all, else they splash way short of target. I don't think I'd opt for carronades on the upper deck, just "throwing it out there" as a thought. Lastly, can you fire a broadside wtih all decks but one locked out? Say for instance lockout decks 2, 3 and 4, fire a broadside with your upper deck only, then lockout deck 1 and make deck 2 available, and fire a broadside with that deck only, and so on. Most of these "tactics" might not be realistic or practical, but can it be done? I'm thinking two moves ahead, trying to work out tactics I can employ when I finally gain a ship with multiple decks. What do you chaps think?
  21. Hello Devs, We all know why broadsides were fired, it was to put as many shots as possible into a target 'area' where our enemy had the miss-fortune to be. Now, at point blank range, we wouldn't expect many shots to miss if any, as the shot would be flying horizontally to the sea and the enemy would be in the way, but as range increases the broadside would be fired in a higher and higher arc and produce an ever growing area of effect where its shot fell. Caused by many things, poor aim throughout crew and officers, inconsistency in weight of charge, irregularity of cannon ball shape, roll of ship hull etc etc. I have seen so many times every single shot of a long range broadside falling just inches from a ships hull, and at the same time so many long range shots where every single shot hits. There seems to be a little more dispersion left and right than there is near and far. I understand that we need some skill in learning targetting etc, my point isn't that the targetting needs reviewing (Please don't hijack this thread along those lines !) far from it I think the ranging shots, leading and height adjustment mechanics are just fine as they are. My point is that these ships cannon just weren't that accurate, you would expect misses, and the further away, the more misses you would expect. Imagine a huge rough tear drop shape on the ocean where your target ship sits within and the narrow point of the teardrop points at your ship. Hopefully you would judge correctly where the majority of your shots would fall, but even if you judged it wrong, you may catch it with a few shot that were destined to be slightly off centre. I don't know if you plan to add accuracy enhancing features in the release version and reduce accuracy until these are achieved, but for me the shot fall area at range is far smaller than any captains expectations should be.
  22. Ahoy people, new guy here, and I bring cannons and explosions. Last month, people working for the Danish Fregatten Jylland museum ship decided to test out one of the old cannons, since It's almost never been done in modern times, and there's little historical evidence detailing the accuracy of the old ship cannons. Fregatten Jylland (The Frigate Jylland) Is one of the world's largest wooden warships, and is both a screw-propelled steam frigate and a sailship. She fought in the Second Schleswig War in 1864, where during the Battle of Heligoland, she sustained a direct hit from an Austrian screw Frigate. The hit killed 4 sailors aboard the Jylland and maimed 5 others. The people working at the ship now decided to recreate this hit, by taking off one of the original cannons, and re-constructing a piece of the hull, like the one that was hit. Then they took them to an Army testing ground, and fired off 3 shots to test the impact, and accuracy of the 150 year old Swedish built cannons. Here's what followed; Be warned, It's all in Danish and 'splosions. But here's the highlights: 0:42 - slow motion 1:17 - close up 1:47 - slow motion 2:22 - damages 2:52 - slow motion 3:12 - live shot followed by close up The shots were fired at a range of 90 meters, believed to be a realistic distance similar to the line of battle in 1864. They used 13 Kg cannon balls, fired with 4 Kg of gun powder. The cannons themselves weigh about 2.5 tons. I figured fellow history buffs, as well as the deveopers might enjoy seeing the effects of a cannonball shot, and of course the delightful explosions. And the ship itself Is pretty beautiful as well.
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