Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'economy'.

More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


  • Naval Action
    • Naval Action Community and Support
    • Naval Action - National Wars and Piracy
    • Naval Action Gameplay Discussions
    • Naval Action - Other languages
    • Naval Action (Русский язык)
  • Age of Sail Historical Discussions
    • History
    • Shipyard
  • Ultimate General
    • Ultimate General: Civil War
    • Ultimate General: Gettysburg
    • Ultimate Admiral: Age of Sail
    • Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts
    • Forum troubleshooting
  • Sea Legends
    • General Discussions
  • This land is my land
    • General discussions
  • Game-Labs Forum
  • SealClubbingClub's Topics
  • Pyrates and rovers's Literature & Media
  • Pyrates and rovers's Gameplay / Roleplay
  • Pyrates and rovers's History - ships, events, personae
  • Clan [GWC] Nederlands talig {Aanmelding}'s Topics
  • Polska Flota Kaperska's Rekrutacja
  • Polska Flota Kaperska's Historia - Polska na morzach
  • Chernomoriya's Topics
  • Unsolved mysteries in plain sight's Mysteries
  • Unsolved mysteries in plain sight's The Book of Rules
  • Congress of Vienna's Global
  • Congress of Vienna's EU
  • Congress of Vienna's Historical
  • The Dutch Empire's The Dutch Empire
  • The Dutch Empire's The Dutch Empire
  • The Dutch Empire's Discord Server
  • ROVER - A treatise on proper raiding in NA developed by real events's The Rulebook
  • ROVER - A treatise on proper raiding in NA developed by real events's Tactics (methods)
  • Ship Auctions's Topics
  • Creative - Captains & Ships Logs's How to...
  • closed's Topics
  • Catalunya's Comença la llibertat !!


There are no results to display.

There are no results to display.


  • Community Calendar
  • United States Continental Navy's Pearl Harbor Day

Find results in...

Find results that contain...

Date Created

  • Start


Last Updated

  • Start


Filter by number of...


  • Start





Website URL







Found 90 results

  1. The Suggestion is Simple. Right now Trade happens almost 100% Local. With no Info on other Ports available. Now how could we improve that without breaking immersion. The Answer is by addint Trade Posts and Taverns. 1. Trade Posts Trade Posts would allow us to Post Buy and Sell Offers not only in the Local Port but in a certain Range of Ports around that Port. Of course the Tradepost would demand a Share of the Profit for Spreading the Offer around. And even if the Order is visible in other Ports the Goods still need to be bought to the Port where the Order came from. 2. Taverns Taverns would allow us to get gossip from the Sailors that travel around. We could see what Surrounding Ports have in their Stores. It might also be used for Missions and Events later. And even as a bit of an Player News source for example if a Large Fleet Battle took place this might pop up in the Infos for a Port 3. How it works. There is two choices. Either use regular NPC Trade Routes. So the other Ports get the News when NPC Ships travel by to update them. Which gives alot of Immersion as Info would spread along trade routes realistically making info more outdated the further away you get and also allows to interdict info. Or we go with a Simple Timer based on Distance. In which Info Spreads The lazy variant so go say ^^ What will this do? Most of all it will increase Player Trade. If I see that someone in Port A wants to buy 1000 Iron for 600 Gold each and that in Port B someone sells 1000 Iron for 400 Gold each. I can Buy it and Ship it thus getting a Reward and get Economy Running. It also allows Players to find Ships and Stuff without docking in each port. If I know from the Tavern that 10 minutes ago there was still 60 long barrel Cannons in Port X and I need these I can go there directly instead of randomly searching for a place to get Long Cannons. This as well greatly promotes Economy Even better. This could include info like 10 minutes ago an Enemy Fleet was roaming the Area or that someone attacked Traders there etc. Making it easier to find PvP or avoid it when you want to Transport big stuff ^^ Finally it would greatly add towards making the world feel alife
  2. Currently the Economy is mostly Dead. And worse alot of Ports are entirely meaningless. Trade barely Exists as well. We need a Jumpstart and we need a Baseline. EVERY Port should Consume Goods and EVERY Port should Produce Goods. Not only Basic Raw Materials but even Items. This Production and Consumption can be Limited to make sure that Players run the Economy in the Big Picture. The advanced Production should be listed as Ressources as well. For Example. Our Port has Iron Mines, Silver Mines and a Workshop. So he Produces Iron Ore and Silver Ore He also Consumes Iron Ore and Silver Ore as well as Coal Due to which he also Produces Iron Ingots and Silver Ingots Ports would be bigger or smaller. A Port that has a Shipyard for example would consume vast amounts if Ship Materials but also Produce a Number of Ships every day. While another Port would have only ressource deposits and no industry. Hence not much Consumption but due to this a much higher production of the base Goods it has. This would get the Game Economy Running again and give people places to fight for as well as establish certain trade routes where players can get a profit
  3. This thread is to discuss my suggestion to get one of the core game mechanics fixed for those interested in other parts of the game outside of combat. This will provide alternative options of gameplay and to supplement non-trade/crafting orientated gameplay (Missions, PvP, PvE, Conquest, Exploring). The biggest issue with the economy revolves around supply/demand supplemented by a player run economy model and low population numbers. To address this we need to break down the economy into the different parts and address each part and how it ties together. First I will cover off on common terms used throughout, then I will identify the key areas with suggestions to fix each if needed, and finally I will provide a conclusion. Terms Common terms used: Store inventory - The quantity available within the shop of a port Raw resources - Goods produced through 'harvesting' in the craft menu - i.e: Logs, Ore, Hemp, etc. Manufactured materials - Parts made from raw resources and other manufactured materials but are not usable themselves - i.e: Frame Parts, Planking, Rigging Parts, etc. Manufactured goods - Finished products usable as consumables, upgrades, and cannons - i.e: Hull Patches, Turning Trim, 6pd Medium Cannons, etc. Trade goods - All the products not usable in crafting but consumables for ports - i.e: Sussex Oak, Fine Leathers, Parisian Furniture, etc. Goods - Encompasses all the previously mentioned goods - Trade goods, Raw resources, Manufactured materials, and Manufactured goods Currently in game: Supply The supply of goods can come in three different forms: Acquisition Appears in the shop for sale Acquisition is a static figure with a % chance of occurring to add stock to a port. Production Produced by players Production is goods produced through raw resource harvesting buildings Trade Populates the port inventory through the sale of goods to the store Trade occurs when players sell goods to a store or when NPC trade ships arrive at a port (unconfirmed the effect). Consumption The consumption of goods in a port are static transactions that reduce the port stock by a set amount every hour. Biggest Issues: Population Player numbers are FAR too low to support the existing model! Acquisition Quantity of acquired goods are purely added by a static figure that does not adjust based on nation population/activity Acquired goods are mostly only shippable from region capital to region capital, other ports are not interested in the goods Production Raw resources produced by players are more expensive than NPC port prices, it is actually more affordable to source from NPC shop inventory then from player contracts Some goods are ignored by players and therefore create massive shortages when NPC shops are not populating regularly as an alternative No profit in shipping goods from raw resource ports to the manufacturing hubs Some raw resources are not available through production Trade Goods moved from an acquiring port to a consumption port are being consumed at a static rate similar to acquisition of goods, there is no adjustment for player population/activity to increase/decrease in proportion Dock space Limited to a small number of slots globally Limited in number of upgrades available Upgrade costs to increase number of slots are astronomically high Building Slots Global limit of 5 buildings Upgrading buildings is costly for minimal gains Production ports Minimal variations of raw resources of ports in proximity to one another meaning ports further from a hub will rarely see any activity Proposed changes: Ports Dock space: Needs to be port dependant, not global. Each player with an outpost in a port should be granted 1 slot in a production port or 3 slots in a regional capital. A player will then need to purchase the upgrades currently available at the current prices to increase their slots available that is applied globally (to make it easy to store a players data). The UI also needs to indicate slots currently used vs total available so a player can visually see how many they have total in a port, currently there is nothing. Outposts should remain the current model of purchasing additional spots however, the increasing pricing without a hard limit needs to be slightly more reasonable. Building slots: (I will cover buildings in more detail later) Limits need to be port specific, not global. In a raw resource port the limit should be 3 and regional capitals 5. 'Upgrading' of buildings needs to change. Buildings Speaking of buildings, it needs a different approach: When you purchase an 'upgrade' to an existing building it should use up an additional slot within that port - A capital cannot have a level 3 shipyard, a workshop, AND a level 3 oak lumber camp. Raw goods ports will require more careful planning, one should choose to either a single level 3 resource building OR 3 separate level 1 resource harvesting buildings if multiple resources are available within a port. This means that for someone to have level three harvesting buildings across multiple ports it will quickly become time consuming and more investment capital required in outpost permits. This will limit massive conglomerates but reward the hard working and smart investors while remaining viable for players entering the resource or manufacturing market. Workshops should be upgradable - Level 1 to class 6, level 2 to class 3, level 3 all cannons/carronades. Again, this will force players into considering investing in a level 3 shipyard OR level 3 workshop unless they invest in another regional capital and split their manufacturing across multiple hubs. Port Population There currently is no difference between major hubs and smaller ports while consumption/acquisition is static. This needs to change to provide the dynamic and evolving world for players to interact with. I am proposing that population be based on two key figures - Production activity and Trade activity. Production Activity As players construct outposts and production/manufacturing buildings within a port, it will 'grow' the population figure of the port with better figures from 'active' ports (players harvesting resources) Port population increases the 'consumption' figures to reflect more people settling in the port for work at the production buildings. Trade Activity Key component as a flourishing port where raw goods are purchased from NPC producers which in turn promotes increasing NPC stock availability of that good to be supplied to the port store at a price above player production costs but not cost prohibitive to purchase nor restrict player profits in port either (~50% markup?) Sale of consumption goods to port encourages the growth through supplying the needs of a port. At any point that players demolish their buildings and outposts or when consumption goods go unfulfilled for long periods then the population would decrease. The supply of goods should remain with the three primary methods mentioned earlier however to address shortages and supply: Acquisition Expensive Trade goods should be exclusive to regions, not necessarily nation but will promote smuggling activity when another nation in a far port has a valuable trade good where massive profits could be made. Lower cost nation specific trade goods appear in all regional capitals and are in demand in all non-capital ports based on population. Raw resources specific to ports can be treated as 'acquired' as an interim measure to replicate NPC producers. Needs to scale based on port activity as mentioned above in trade activity Manufactured materials should appear in small dynamic quantities to replicate NPC crafters, needs to be expensive (2-3x player crafting) to provide space for player sellers without blowing the market out of proportion. Production As per buildings section above, players will be the primary producers of goods Raw resources in the shop will be populated under the acquisition section until NPC producers could be implemented in a better form. Trade Ports need to have far more consumption items including commonsense items such as whole fish, fish meat, and food supplies. Ports need to have consumption of all trade goods with better prices the further they are away from regional capitals or when they are becoming larger/wealthier from player activity/trade. Goods Pricing This has been partially covered previously but prices are currently very confusing. There is no commonsense approach to this, when production cost for Oak Logs currently is 73 gold and I can purchase them for 42 from an NPC shop, it defies logic. This is where prices need to be adjusted and as developers you can influence the economy to ensure it doesn't stagnate while promoting shipment of goods. Raw resources Purchase prices at raw resources ports should be low but not lower than production costs with a little margin thrown in (50% markup?) Purchase prices at manufacturing hubs should be punishing but not insane (~300% markup from craft cost?) Sale prices of raw resources in production ports should punish stuipidity (half production cost) Sale prices of raw resources in manufacturing hubs should be profitable enough to encourage movement of goods to restock but not out do player purchase orders (50% markup?) Manufacturing materials Purchase prices for manufacturing materials in hubs should be expensive but not entirely cost prohibitive for basic ship/upgrade construction (2-3x crafting cost) (Oak frames but not Teak frame, etc) Sale prices of manufacturing materials in hubs should be above the cost of materials if harvested and crafted to offer the option to supply the port when no one else is interested Sale/Purchase prices of manufactured materials at raw resource ports should be very low to encourage moving goods from non-hub ports where a player has chosen to manufacture Manufactured goods Sale prices on finished products should be above crafting costs as a last resort but not enough to exploit Purchase prices should be punishing but not insane (~500% markup from craft cost?) Trade goods All lower priced goods should be low buy prices in region capitals and high sell prices in resource ports linking in with population All high end trade goods should be regionally priced, moving goods from one regional capital to another should be good but not insane profit with modest profits if sold to resource ports within a region, again feeding the population/consumption. Ship Production I haven't found any major flaws to the current crafting system, it's been mostly the economy that has been the flaw that is breaking the ship building industry. The one change that needs to happen is that player crafted ships NEED to have at least 2 or 3 durability to actually ENCOURAGE purchasing player ships over NPC ships. The PvP servers are dying for a few more durability or ships while the PvE server is flooded with overpriced capped ships with no effort to craft better. Secondly, selling/breaking up ships. What is the go here? You want players to craft ships to increase craft rank, ok. But what do they do with the unwanted masses they need to make in order to progress? Selling them at 3% of the production cost to the NPC store is cost prohibitive. Swamping the market with cheap boats destroys the 'player led' model economy. And breaking up ships for a meger few pieces of scrap is an insult. What needs to happen is breaking up a ship should yield between 25-50% of the craft materials. NPC sale prices need to be at a minimum a slight profit from the cost of crafting the ship (~20%) to encourage people to pursue ship crafting. *edit: Admiralty Store One thing I didn't mention is the admiralty store, everything that is available that is not merely aesthetics SHOULD be purchasable with gold. This prevents pricing small clans/solo traders out of business and also prevents the current turn towards a P2W style. As it stands to obtain the correct marks one must either play PvE server or participate in the majority of PBs to earn enough to provide ships for the players focused on PBs and PvP. It just doesn't make sense to force the people who choose to supply the market instead of battling with engaging in a part of the game they aren't interested in and if they never did indulge in it wouldn't make a difference to the greater scheme of it. Asking a crafter to harvest 25 conquest marks simply to produce a single SOL for other players will hugely inflate prices due to the grind cost associated with it. On the contrary asking a PvPer / PvE mission grinder to have to trade goods and craft goods as a prerequisite to sail the next ship up would infuriate the player base. This needs a serious rethink, it needs options for both sides. Combat orientated players SHOULD earn less gold but SHOULD have an avenue to BPs / Permits / Upgrades etc. the same as Crafting / Econ orientated players SHOULD be earning the most gold but also SHOULD be able to purchase everything at a premium (i.e: Victory BP for 5 mil, Permit for 200k, Crafted ships will thus sell around 1-1.5 mil on the market or less internally). /edit* Conclusion These suggestions to fix the economy are based on my experience having played many 'economy simulation' games from as early as the original Sid Myer's Pirates!, Port Royale series, PotBS, to name a few more relevant games, and many more. These suggestions are by no means to completely resolve the economy issues but at a minimum revolve around tidying up the markets, providing a 'player led' economy model while using NPCs as a way to moderate prices and prevent abuse of the markets. It will encourage players to branch out beyond the starting regions, encourage supplying the ports they use to harvest resources, provide a more dynamic and immersive economy that can bring about more player interaction in the wider regions of the map. I'm not looking to hear how PvP needs this or that, they have had their time, take that to your own suggestion threads, please keep criticism constructive. If you don't agree with me on trying to fix this mess before the game is completely abandoned then please, by all means spend half your own evening devising an alternative, I long to hear more people offering solutions to the problems.
  4. Economy: Remove AI port consumption of crafted materials and remove the AI consumption of rare wood logs we need for crafting = should help getting a player driven economy. The way the economy works now it is not rewarding enough for players to bother supplying the player marked with much or anything at all.. Because it is so much easier to craft 10.000 iron ingots and sell it to a AI ports, that are consuming crafted materials. As long as the traders and crafters are not supplying the player marked, we will never see the healthy competitive prices on ship, cannons or consumables. Because there are to few who are making this stuff now the prices stay high and the solo players will have a hard/terrible time ingame. Also the AI ports are for some reason consuming the rare limited woods.. So traders players are buying it up, thereby pushing the prices up, just so they can sell it to AI ports.. In the big picture this is contributing to making PvP expensive! But I would still argue for lowering the prices on crafting fir log, oak log and iron ore with 50%. Because we need so much of it just to craft the basic stuff, like repairs and cannons. A different solution could be to lower the need for it in all crafting recipes with 50%. Then we would need less and have more labor hours, but that is a larger change and risk effecting more aspects.. Speed meta/upgrades: Reduce drop rate, nerf speed gain % and/or add more drawbacks. Speed caped ships should be rare and impossible for most ships. The speed mods are to powerful and to common now. Copper plating, Gazelle Bow Figurine, Crooked hull refit (has a nice drawback at least), Bovenwinds Refit ( I have not tested this), Optimized ballast and probably some more. We also have the perk for extra storage space now that gives you extra speed if you don't load you ship up to much (this might be a bug). This all needs some nerfing and/or more drawbacks for balancing. Because when you have a ship that can carry 75 + rigg repairs in the hold and still be speed capped at 15 kn, then you are uncatchable. At best it just becomes a stale in OW between players with speed capped ships. And the losers are those who enter OW in a ship that can't reach the speed cap. So now if you have a ship that does 14.99 kn, just stay in port. If you go out looking for PvP you will be hunted down and killed by a/several faster ship. And if you try to hunt the players outside your own port they will out run you. IMO it should be very rare to have a speed caped ship, almost impossible. My fir/teak Suprise does 15 kn with repairs, just with 4 speed modules. It should not be so easy, and it should not be possible to do with so many ships. Leaving a battle instance/Revenge fleets issue: In a battle we often sail in one direction for a long time. Even after the battle is over, we can still sail for another 15 minutes. So why can we not leave a battle instance and enter open world in the same position? Because when we leave we magically reappear where it all began. And that makes it to easy for other player to camp the battle site in OW. I'm assuming the coordinates between OW and in the battle instance are interchangeable, but they might not be. A solution then could be to calculate the distance traveled in the battle, and then add that to our X and Y coordinates when returning to OW. I'm also supporting the removal of the battle cross when the battle closes, but not as long as we still have the invisibility feature. Because the invisibility cloak is abused to surround unaware players. Therefor we need the battle crosses ingame as a warning sign to players traveling through. Reducing the join time for battles further, adding Exit to friendly harbor option or increasing invisibility time will not help PvP, at least not long term. It will guarantee a gank fest right now that will slowly kill of our new players. Because the losers in those fights will be solo players and new players. And when they get scared away from sailing in OW, then we all lose.. Feel free do discuss and disagree.. ^^
  5. Prior to the patch yesterday i had 197 PVE Marks. Today i downloaded the patch and when i logged in it had converted to the new Combat Marks. (So 197 Combat Marks.) I took a 2nd Lieutenant Mission and went out and killed two "Rookie Snows" and earned 4 more Combat Marks and upon returning to port i now have 0 Combat marks. Instead if 197 + 4 = 201 Combat marks i now have 0, they all have disappeared.
  6. Farrago

    ONE currency

    Conquest Marks, PVP marks, PVE Marks, Gold... There are so many currencies in this game that it is impossible to balance them all. Get rid of them all except Gold. Combat earns XP and Gold. Crafting earns XP (and profits in gold if you sell your wares). All items in admiralty are priced in gold. Adjust the amount of rewards and prices as you will based on difficulty and desired scarcity. It seems to me that a) this system would be easier to get the economy right and b)would allow players to pursue their own paths to "success".
  7. I dont know you but I need to do several missions per day or some trading routes to win the gold to keep running my clan activities. And, for me, it is not fun to spend so much time to win enough gold to harvest the mines. Repairs arent cheap at all and collecting all the ressources needed for this basic consumable is a shore. NPCs dont give you enough kits to go to do some pvp after a pve battle. Cannons crafting requirements are absurd, the amount of iron ore is beyond meassure, LHs and gold just vanish in a matter of several clicks. If I need so much gold, I invest less time pvping. PVP overall is not profitable except for earning marks. Marks you will not sell (I still havent seen any pvp mark being sold). Please devs, relax a bit this grinding. Improve a bit the rewards in pve activities like trading and sinking npc and increase a lot the gold rewards in pvp to really promote it.
  8. “…Hello, my name is Norfolk nChance ……and I’m an addict….” The Patch 10.00 roll out was I think Wed 24th May So, 10 days POST the big wipe. I was looking through the STEAM discussion threads, don’t roll your eyes there are jerks on this forum as well, author included. Anyway, there are some really pissed off teenagers here. Then I look deeper, and its wider than that. It’s not just the “this game is crap, should be on sale crowd…” no no… this is “Not going in the fun direction…”, “Making Money WTF…” “PvP is now dead….”. With lots of feedback, not just the usual spam troll rubbish… Somethings happened here… so I go the forum… I suddenly find were the STEAM kids got their potty mouths from… Vocal, real pissed off at the grind. WTF Admin… The economics are broke… Trader buff, reduce cannons, PvE Economy is broken… Then I was able to condense all posts starting the 24th May to today on the two forums basically down into six words. Yes, from pages and pages of threads to hundreds of posts. Just six little words… “Player no money, cannons too High…” We are talking broad strokes here, but you see it, don’t you? It came to me from a short but brilliant POST from [Victor] in the forum called STAGFLATION. Go read it. I mulled with piece for some time because it rang totally true but not quite. He seemed to have captured the “Six Little Words”. I’m not an armchair Admiral, but a real life economist. This I do for a living, and the one thing missing in the post is TIME. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation Read “Causes”, first sentence then look back at the “six little words” above. Ring any bells. The depression of internal demand of Goods due to the fact people don’t have enough money to buy them. Think about that East German Girl, in 1990 watching the wall come down becoming ONE Germany again. In her mind Disneyland, Paris, Clothes, Coca Cola… however want them all she likes she’s no money to pay for them. This is you in NA right now… My clan [ELITE], we haven’t been pulling out all the stops, but really just getting used to playing with each other again. A Bit of trading, some missions and well the odd Gank now and again. Nothing hardcore. Our cash pile is growing, we are working to a plan. I want the same L’O just as you and the other things. It will take time for me to get. There is actually no depression at all. The economy is 10 days old ONLY. It (the economy) just hasn’t started to get rolling momentum yet. But it is rolling all the same. The Junkie What we are witness to in Naval Action is player depression from needing something that he’s being used to having and replacing easily for the past year. This is what we are looking at. If I said remember when you first started … you seriously can’t, that world is tinted by rose glass that clouds our view. We need to asked a Brand-new player that understands numbers. What do you see, feel, hate, like… And this [Victor] knocks it clean out of the park… “harming the players progression (and fun) after the big patch” Fun Factor is not an economic term, but ask most adults in 2008 fun might not be the first word that springs to mind. What was left in 2009 was for most adult’s depression. This is how we are looking at Naval Action now. RIGHT NOW. The Brand-New Player doesn’t suffer from our past addiction. He’s in a new and exciting world to explore. His “Fun Factor” I’d guess might be higher right now than us old sea dogs. We have 500 to 3,000 hours of XP living in a world that’s just 10 days old. Let me just say the again… Just 10 days old… So, seriously is the Naval Action in stagflation or are we coming off them addiction blues? The Dealer If you’ve worked out who the junkie is, then you must know who’s his dealer. So, our beloved Genius, he tries to soften the blow (excuse the pun) of doing cold turkey. How, by giving us XP Rank Craft plus three ships and a get out of France free pass. He tells you in no uncertain terms… “Do Not Redeem your Redeemable’s unless you are absolutely sure you want to remain in that nation” So, have you snorted your XP yet, Smoked the Surprise Joint or injected an Indefatigable…? The Economy is ONLY 10 days OLD. WHY? Well, answer me this truthfully when you snorted, smoked or injected… you didn’t get that same high you were expecting right? The whole mechanic has change… you know this…? However, when a junkie doesn’t quite get his fix, what do you think happens to his Craving…? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/craving Go back and just look at the mass and mess of threads on the forum and STEAM discussion pages. You see it yet..? Rehab Think about looking at a 10day Universe for all that NA experience you have. It might seem like a good idea, but it comes tarnished. Just before the wipe, I took my ALT onto the testbed. I wanted to do a complete cold newbie start. Following [Powderhorn] excellent “New Player” experience guide. It was very hard, but fun. It was like being re-introduced to an old lover. Missions hotfixed overnight turning from Pickle to Lynx opposition to Rattlesnake Brig and SNOW lmao but not up in arms…. But I truly didn’t feel the grind. It was fresh. Getting into the first paid guns on the BASIC Cutter, felt like a great achievement. But still not grind. Trading, I wrote down prices circled Fort-Royal Ports trading away… It didn’t feel the same as what YOU or I feel now… In fact, I will admit I had more fun being a returned newbie than right now how to build my best Connie. On the ship tree… spreadsheets in the age of sail or what? Task to Complete If you can, go to either of the other two servers you don’t use. Log in and reset the PC and pick a Nation so far left field it might as well be France. Spend the next 5 days ONLY starting from scratch. However, within that time under no circumstance can you go back onto your main server. Then tell me, no tell Admin how it felt. My Suggestion The Next Wipe Admin, stop messing about and do a COMPLETE and FULL wipe. RANK, CRAFT, everything. Give [Balls of Steel] his Yacht on product launch only…. “….My name is Norfolk nChance ……and I’m an addict….”
  9. As you might have realized, there are lots of ports which have very few trading goods or ports that buy your stuff at 1 gold. As consequence, most trading routes are now unprofitable and a waste of time. Ports need to consume and produce enough trading woods for a server of 1000+ players (like PVP EU).
  10. Hey captains, I noticed that multiple players are experiencing issues with the way the port wares work. One reason why the economy was subjectively more profitable before the wipe might be the reason that there were simply less active "player" traders. So I would suggest to scale parts of the economy based on players online. Possible factors would be: Frequency of Consume/Produce Amount of Goods I think the NPC fleets are already scaled this way - or at least it seems this way. What do you think? Edit: I also think this would be in tune with the devs demand/supply policy
  11. Hello there! The first part (above the picture) mostly contains information about the current situation: furnishings. Underneath the picture are way more suggestions / ideas. I've noticed the economy right now is very sluggish, especially with regard to PvP and ship creation but not just that. The money just isn't flowing good enough. Cannon builders are richer then ever while everyone else is struggling in mission orders with bad NPC ships. I'm currently at 176.677 gold. This includes doing solo CPT missions without indef (i'm trying NPC ships) and mostly trading random nation goods for profit. I've spend my money multiple times by buying new ships/cannons due to losing an other ship or creating outposts. I might've earned 300-500K by doing cpt orders and a little bit of trading. Even if cannons are expensive and such (sort of the same as with compasswood earlier); it's probably the only thing about the economy that's actually working from day 1 (lucky first coal freight? Idk!). As for ships this isn't working at all. Everything above 6th rate is severely limited due to furnishings. Also a good example; the marks are doing their thing. Need cash? Sell your marks! Need marks? Get cash and buy them. The money is flowing into the PLAYER'S hands. Meanwhile everyone is purchasing NPC ships left and right with hard earned money that is going nowhere (into the port,...??). Now... ships above 4th rate and beginning end 5th rate are already limited due to PvP marks; but then there is an other factor that adds even more PvP marks, being it furnishings. What's even weirder; ships like a merc require 8 furnishings while an essex only requires 4. Probably done to balance things out but why limit ship building so severely already? All we see is basic cutter PvP or none at all . I'm from the UP; beside the PBs towards the French there is no action at all - long sailing trip to experience action, expensive to obtain outposts. Not exchanging PvE marks into PvP marks makes it even 'worse' but i know where you're coming from; forcing to PvP on a PvP server. But if you want to force PvP, can we at least choose between a variety of ships? If you limit basic cutter PvP next PvP ship is probably a surprise or the cerberus because they are the only ones not requiring furnishings (ye that's an actual prediction if this is hotfixed). Furnishings Ships like the indefatigable, endymion AND the Connie all cost 15 PvP marks. While looking at the stats all ships are completely different. Also the furnishings are completely different: 10, 6 and 13. If we look further down the line (only limitation; furnishings) it becomes even weirder. Reno: 16 , Trinco: 10, Frigate: 3, Belle Poule: 12, Merc: 8, Essex: 4. It's so messy and it's weird to see an overall better ship (essex) being severely cheaper than a merc, reno, belle. That being said; cannons have had a buff, they received extra coal mines, which are also required for furnishings to be crafted (gold & silver ingots). The cannon 'struggle': a workshop, a coal mine, labor hours. The ship STRUGGLE: A shipyard; numerous mines and forests (teamwork); labor hours; explicit items such as furnishings, permits, blueprints, marks. We've come to a point where ship construction is severely limited due to; Coal being a limited resource (but as of now it seems OK). Silver and Gold being severely limited (furnishings...). It's more RnG based to get silver/gold from an AI trader, shipwreck or random mine. Requires multiple farms and forests; a solo player can't craft ships cheap (but doesn't have to - clan, friends, nation). Shipyard level 2 mandatory; not cheap at all. Basic cutter PvP everywhere; no risk at all, (very) high reward... and no marks. Oops! That's mostly only for frigates; which is currently the biggest step forward for any captain; captain orders will give you decent money if you can actually captain a decent ship. There should be some kind of safe crafting haven for any beginning player; or more experienced player. As of now this remains 6th rates and below (again: limited by furnishings). As of patch 10.0 i was thinking only 3rd rate+ was in need of limitations, but now almost everything is also severely limited due to furnishings. While the first problem was Coal; the second problem is silver and gold. If we take a look at the map there's 5 actual gold production cities. 2 spain (far away - one of them could be UP / Brits), one French (nowhere near them), one danish (easily accessible) and one pirate ("easily accessible"). If we look at the silver production ports there are 9, which almost doubles gold. 4 spain (far away - 2 of them could be UP / Brits), 2 French (nowhere near them + one in their own waters), One danish (easily accessible), two pirate (nowhere near them - easily a Spanish or British port - second one is in the gold cluster). Coal has an INCREDIBLE 18 ports of availability + (as the trade tool tells me) there's at least 7 ports where it should be purchasable (available) and you will need all of them to obtain furnishings via crafting (2/3 outposts, 3 buildings; $$$). I think it might also be because of the map. Here is the map tool btw: http://licornes.eu/ Small talk about the map The entire left side of the map is almost never being used; for most nations it's too far. If you divide the entire map in two halves; the entire right side is probably used by 80-90% of the players, while the entire left side is only used by 20-10% of the players. The right side is obvious: it contains 6 nations. The left contains 2 nations (USA / Spain, but mostly spain). While it is very cool to see that it's an actual replica of the map; you might want to consider doing something with the entire left side of the map. Despite this; the left contains 7 out of 14 gold / silver resources (3 being more or less in the center) Same for coal kind of but it's way better: 4 out of 18 ports is concentrated on the (far) left and 5 of them being in the center. Now... To conclude my post, since it's only about furnishings (lol). Here are some suggestions: 1. Add more gold mines, silver seems OK: Nations such as Sweden and FR can't reach gold, for example. Three nations have to fight over one resource - while both FR and the Danes have a silver port controlled. Kind of the same for pirates / Brits / Spain / USA. You can't craft frigates at all, you're literally forced to PvP beside being forced to PvP for 4th rate+ for permits and bps (you don't have a choice??). Alliances can help once it's introduced again ; one bigger block (the alliance) can obtain multiple mines and trade with each other -> see below: Trade hub. 2. Make gold ORE and silver ORE more available; or ingots: Remove the random RnG (Capturing a trade ship, Shipwreck) as you did with the upgrades and marks for ships. It's annoying and a hassle. Good example: shipwrecks (RnG) contain ore instead of coins. Coins earn big $$$, but ship crafting is better for everyone. Perhaps add a more expensive PvE mark option in the admiralty to obtain ingots or ore for silver / gold or maybe even furnishings. Let random ports produce them just like i see random materials in ports right now,... 3. Balance furnishings in ship construction: I'd rather have them completely removed from frigates so player can actually craft and sail frigates actively (promotes PvE and PvP) but i like it being a little 'more limited'. But i'd take an essex over a trinco any day because of the cheaper furnishings. It just doesn't make sense, you can't force one to PvP without a ship; unless you want some cutter action! Which is quite terrible (much reward, no risk). Not even sure how 4th rate+ will be... 4. Remove basic cutters (or any non-PvP mark reward ship) from being able to PvP. If you want to promote PvP; do it via 6th rates (limited; rattle, maybe merc) but especially imo via frigates, 5th rates. Currently i don't see anyone sailing their 100K+ ship into PvP and if the economy isn't rolling this will stay for quite a long time (literally a month or so). If you want the PvP marks to work, we need a better economy and decent ships (and way more risk -> Cutter: no risk, much reward). remove the *********** basic cutters from PvP, it's ruining the 'fun' for everyone and it's sort of an exploit of the system. Maybe a good idea: 7th rate basic ships are unable to obtain PvP marks. It's a first step into NA; you need to switch to more advanced ships to PvP (manual sail,...). How to disable? Can't enter any battle or can't attack any ship at all (doesn't see the button to join / attack). Otherwise we'd still see them pull ships or join battles after bigger ships join (*ahum* exploit, as usual). Everything 6th rate+ is able to obtain PvP marks; since it already has (way) more risk due to crafting costs / cannons. "Protect the newbs, eliminate the elites exploiting." 5. Make delivery orders great again: i said it before and it's still the same problem. Delivery orders going towards enemy capitals are unable to be fulfilled. Not only this; certain orders have an incredible amount of quantity needed before being fulfilled. If i sail to said port: i can only buy at max 0-100 while i need 750 to fill in the contract. This actually takes days to fulfill (waiting game; wait for the 'respawn') and again, doesn't bring money into the economy, only into the ports / AI. There's also some weird delivery orders which you really need to calculate in-detail (excel spreadsheet) to get the real cost out of it. Deliver 1191 charcoal: reward 27393, cost: 34821 (craft oak logs - lv 1 building: 477, make charcoal - not counted is LH used). Buy charcoal cost: 52360 (cheapest price). I actually need to go outside the game to calculate everything - and in the end i conclude i can't make a profit at all. It's kind of weird to deliver '1191 charcoal' or '14 large carriages' to coconut town (coquibacoa lol) when nobody visits this port. We should see more of the delivery orders go towards the capital with craft goods (for a profit) and those should be available in the port after the order is done. Bring your own nation goods to other ports -> bring crafting goods and other nation's goods to your own port. The trade tool / delivery order could guide me to the port (i can pick this delivery order's goods up in port X, X and X). After that i can still look for the ports in the trade tool. That's why external parties are doing such a good job by delivering nice and easy layouts of trade good availability, prices,... (Licornes, Navalactioncraft,...) Unfortunately they are limited due to refresh rates only able to do after the daily maintenance just as the trade tool it seems (displays goods which are available, but aren't if you check the shop). 6. Let the cash flow into the economy - the people: I'm not sure how but maybe this should be a new feature. Since NA doesn't have the OW port experience (being able to walk in a port,...) you're forced to look elsewhere; buildings, NPCs selling various resources,... unfortunately a lot of this money is lost immediately, it's gone forever. Random world events could make things more interesting. If port X had X amount of purchases (or X amount of money has been spend) the port will hold a special offer or a discount on ships/resources/... If certain mines or forests have had X amount of labor (again via money perhaps); it would create a discount for one day or several (prime time) hours; some kind of 'happy hour' for the buildings. A port creates a random trade fleet (because it received a lot of goods/money) which needs to be escorted; a moving PB which isn't a 25v25; it's not limited and everyone can receive a reward. Good first experience in PvP if it happens (just like screening fleets for PBs). Some small ideas but the bigger idea; let the AI give something back to the players as well (contribute to the economy). Ports don't spend money but earn a lot of money -> this needs to flow into the player economy somehow. Especially in current patch: losing ships is NORMAL; i lost 2 ships already due to mismanagement... all this money spend on NPC ships / cannons is just gone (and all my hard work). Instead someone else could've obtained this money and make cannons, resources, ships,... -> which i did afterwards by buying carronades from someone, thanks! (; 7. A trade hub, a place for naval trading: It's been suggested before somewhere and i've approved on the idea. The idea behind a trade hub: instead of having 5 1st rates in Fort Royal and 5 1st rates in Willemstad; we could have 10 1st rates in one trade hub. This way the ships will automatically drop prices since there is more supply. It's also way easier to navigate towards such a trade hub and obtain goods there then having to sail towards numerous ports to see if they actually have the goods. In general: one central trade hub offers way more rivalry amongst other traders. This will force the prices to drop (dramatically), especially in the first weeks where goods, cannons and ships are very limited. You don't have to force yourself to 'adjust' or make more coal ports, for example (same for gold/silver/furnishings). Could be introduced with alliances: if an alliance has been established... everyone can vote for a 'new capital'; the trade hub; for both nations; a county capital for example. Now: the biggest pro would be if it hadn't to do with alliances but more or less one, big platform for everyone alltogether. This creates trade and PvP aswell. The con; i don't think this seems very realistic. It should be a place where everyone could come and trade, the more the better, the cheaper,... this includes SHIPS, CANNONS, RESOURCES, everything! 8. The wind is your best friend and so are the traders and combat vessels of your nation: Something needs to be done by the system because creating a trade hub on your own, with the player base, requires so much effort and teamwork from everyone. This includes casuals sailing to the trade hub (they can't spend a lot of time already) and bring their goods/ships/cannons there. A faster idea would be to keep the OW but to extend it's possibilities: add some kind of trade route which enhances any trade ship's speed. Naval combat ships can group up but must be grouped and together with the trade vessel to protect it from possible pirates along the trade route. They will also receive the enhanced speed towards the trade hub. This can be combined with the national alliance vote for the trade hub: the trade route is only created if a trade hub exists. If it isn't, no trade route (and enhanced speeds) are applied in the OW. 9. I shall not deliver, but you, my trader friends: Let players create their own delivery orders (risk for both parties). This way a casual can set up a delivery order to deliver a certain ship, resource,... towards the trade hub without them having to spend the time themselves. Anyone can become pretty much a permanent trader by bringing goods towards the trade hub and make a profit with various resources they crafted themselves. Right now this isn't needed but if we can actually go to a big trade hub this is a must have, especially in combination with casuals who don't have a lot of time to play... but it could be anyone really (don't like sailing trade ships,...). 10. One nation, including the lone wolves (or bears): Let players create a delivery order and ask (via a party system) other players to join them for a profit (including the naval combat vessels). Let players group up WAY more easily instead of having to 'X' in chat. Create a party/group system where players can find a group for PvP, PvE or trading. This idea is included for combat orders but most definitely for delivery orders. This way you're also 'forcing' players to play together; because right now all the lone wolves can't find a group to PvE with and it's annoying if nobody answers in the nation chat. Let the players come together. This by itself will also enhance the economy largely because players will actively work together and earn money together on numerous occasions -> strengthening the economy! Especially if combined with the trade hub / trade route idea. It's a complete package tbh. The best way still remains; do some captain missions in your indefatigable and don't sink (don't take too much risk). Sell your marks / loot after the event. Equip carronades for maximum damage. Once you have some money trade random nation goods and you're pretty much ready to roll... or craft cannons and sell 'em. Right now the market is still going to settle. Creating and selling various resources is also a possibility. If you want to do delivery orders: be careful and make sure you calculate everything before you accept! o7 and discuss!
  12. At start after the wipe, French pirates and Spanish will have Gold and Silver and Neither Danemark, sweden, us, dutch and english will have any. It mean all this 5 nation are unable to craft any ship needed furnishing exept if they farm as pig to get them from admiralty. The question: Is it fair? What may happend if a nation is gold/silverless? I've seen many players leaving the game because teir eco port were taken and they were unable to craft ships. Maybe it has to be solved before Suggestion : Stone craft give you 10% of silver and 10% or iron for 100 stone extract. It's a slow work and people will have to farm stone like pig to get enough silver and gold Coal and iron mines give you 2% silver and 2% gold for 100 ressources extract.
  13. Part of a balanced MMO is more than just PvP. Other forms of Player-to-player interaction are also required, including cooperation. One of the professed purposes of the upcoming wipe is to bring about a new economy, putting behind us - hopefully - the utterly broken one that we’ve been living with for a year, which allowed us to test every other aspect of the game. Creating this new and working MMO-economy is surely no small task. I am not a trader in this game. I trade and craft mainly to support other activities, and to sustain my clan. Yet I see that for PvP and the open world to have a sustainable environment as well as a proper balance, trading gameplay needs to be developed, and those players who choose to focus on it need to be encouraged. The old economy we have on the live server drove traders away a long time ago. There was no challenge, no unique gameplay, and no supply and demand - only endless supply. The new economy that we are testing on the testbed forces a "division of labour» so to say. Everyone cannot do everything anymore. With new production levels, travel times, and the partial removal of teleports, you can no longer collect every resource, and craft every ship yourself. PvP-players in each nation will depend on the traders and crafters of their respective nation or clan. If well balanced, this looks very promising, yet there are a few issues presumably yet to be solved about this part of the game. Like how do we prevent people from each sitting on a heap of their particular valuable, looking enviously on the heap of somebody else, yet not willing to trade away any of their own production? How do we unite the players who are lacking a resource, with a supplier? And how do we prevent clans from organising an economy internally, while leaving the rest of the nation, and solo-players to their own meagre devices? On the latter issue, you could dismiss it entirely, and say that if the clans are not contributing to the national economy, then that is a national problem of having selfish clans. However on the former issue, I believe we need more trade tools, and some mechanisms that encourage player-to-player interaction, even out of OW in port. -We should be able to put up buy contracts for ships. You request wood type, trim and refit, and the crafter fulfills the order. -If not already implemented, we need to be able to put buy contracts for the refit items. -There should be ways to acquire Marks outside of PvP and RvR. Crafters, haulers and traders should be able to gain marks from these activities. Interactions with players from your own nation, besides PvP or PvE, should have the potential to generate marks. Being a dedicated crafter/trader, who does PvP only secondarily, will be unsustainable once all ships in high demand will require copious amounts of marks for crafters to make them. They need to be able to take payment that includes coverage of the Marks used in crafting. To make this simpler, Marks could be an item that you can buy from NPCs for gold. The Marks are an infinite resource anyway - its production limited only by how many NPCs we can find and kill. And if the economy is properly balanced so as not to flood the market with gold, then having Marks be an item that you can purchase from NPCs for a steep price would not be a problem. In fact it could help the economy, by taking gold out (giving it to NPC) and putting only a quantity of an infinitely regenerating resource into the economy. Secondly it would be worth exploring to encourage trade between players and nudging players to put their surpluses on the market for others to get access to, by rewarding trading with Marks. As an example, when you put a quantity of an item on the market with a contract, once that contract is emptied, you are rewarded with a relative number of Marks. And when you sell someone a ship that you crafted, or fulfull someone elses’ contracts, you likewise get marks. Without some mechanics to ensure its integrity, this system would be very exploitable of course, by players trading back and forth between each other. However, you could put limits on it or other measures to prevent abuse, as well as increase the tax on contracts - to then accept that some marks may be generated by players, but in exchange for a money sink. Thirdly, crafters could get derivative marks, in addition to XP, for kills done with ships that they crafted. So if the player who purchased your ship kills a connie and get 3 marks, then you, as the crafter, are rewarded with maybe 1 Mark.
  14. Hello, At start this patch was announce as something crazy wich could allow us to really choose how to build our ships. We were supposed to be able to choose guns, armor, crew and more. Each stat was suppos to change others stat to get a balance ship or not depending on the craft. What we got in the patch is nothing more than putting out regional bonus and ship quality. THERE IS NOTHING NEW IN REGARD OF CRAFT IN THE PATCH Now, ok there is ship knowledge but it's nothing in regard of the craft. Crafting gun? Nothing in regard of ship craft, it's just introducing more manufacturing items to build the ship but it doens'nt change the ship craft. So all this noise for nothing? There is still thing we are waiting and this things are necessary for us to plan our implitantion on next wipe. Ressources were supposed to be moved to balance the things and make rvr more interesting. Regional bonus were supposed ot be craftble and added in reciepe. Sol note were supposed to be tradabole against pve mark or pvp marl and necessary to craft sol. When are we going to see this change? Are they forbidden as almost everyhting what was supposed to make the new craft awsome?
  15. The forthcoming server wipe will remove vast hoards of accumulated gold and has been welcomed by many players as the chance to eliminate inflation and start again. I thought I'd take a look at the economy to see if these hopes are justified, and maybe uncover other things on the way. We don't yet know what the economy will look like after the wipe. All we know for certain is that all gold will vanish and ships will have 1 dura. What I want to do here is look at the economy as it is now, so we can offer suggestions to help the devs make the best decisions before 20th April. In this post I will use current recipes, building capacities, compass wood drop rates. I'll also use grey ships as this seems to be the best guess at what post-wipe ships will be. To save you wading through treacle, I'll start with the conclusions: Without major changes to blueprints, inflation will quickly become a problem again A grey Trincomalee costs 79273 gold in click costs, which might sound reasonable enough. But it requires over 2 days' stored labour. Essentially, crafters can only sink, on average, about 30k-40k gold a day which is a small fraction of the money coming into the economy. Following the wipe we will all be poor to start with, setting up outposts and buildings (generally more expensive than building ships - but you should only need to do it once). But gold will quickly accumulate, with apparently nowhere to go. There isn't a single right solution to this. Increasing blueprint click costs would help, as would reducing LH requirements. The devs could introduce new or increase existing gold sinks, such as crew costs, repairs, gunpowder and ammo - but if these are player made then they too need a high gold to LH ratio to have an effect on inflation. Or they could sell things players might want to buy, such as paints. But it has to be something that players will buy again and again. Existing blueprints encourage econ alts If you only have to find 30k gold a day to fund your econ alt, this is easy. But if blueprint click costs averaged 100k per day this would be rather harder to support. Of course, the devs might wish to passively encourage alts as they gain money that way; furthermore econ alts do help reduce inflation as they sink money without generating any. You had better look after your 1 dura ship That Trincomalee you have takes nearly 2.5 days to make. A Constitution takes 4 days. Even a Surprise takes 1.5. It does look like blueprint LH requirements need to come down. Capping off NPCs and selling/trading capped ships could wreck the economy Not really part of this analysis but I thought I'd mention it here anyway. If ships capped off NPCs are similar to player-made ships, then who will buy player-made ships? What, then, do you spend your accumulated gold on? There is a different problem capping ships off players. Capping a ship once is probably fine - at least one player has to go out and buy a new one. Being able to cap the ship back later might sound line a game wrecker, but I don't think it is. Players aren't all the same and I don't see a single ship passing between players countless times; some players will consistently lose ships and others will win them. Provided winners are prevented from trading ships back to losers then new ships will still be needed. You only need level 1 buildings (edit from original post) 5 level 1 builfdings - trading like for like with other players who mine different resources - provide more than enough raw materials to use all your labour hours. Incidentally, this allows scope for introduction of some sort of resource control, such as I posted here, to make the economy more interesting without damaging it. ... and for those who like treacle ... Data and Analysis I've taken blueprint data from the json files, parsed it into a database and extracted it into a more usable form in a spreadsheet. I've checked it as best I can, but not as well as I would like and it is entirely possible there is an important error that renders this entire post meaningless. I've ignored NPC production of craftable materials. I don't know whether or not NPCs will continue to sell craftable materials but my first thoughts are this will make little difference; it will sink a little more gold, and ease LH restrictions, but not by much. I have looked at seven ships, all made of oak and all grey (trim doesn't matter for grey ships), to see how much gold and time goes into making them LH is labour hours; we currently get 1008 of these a day, without perks. BH is building hours. Each building has a daily production capacity and a building hour will make one 24th of this. With 5 level 1 buildings each player has 120 biulding hours a day (240 for level 3) - and in the BH days column I have assumed level 1 buildings. [edited]. The two 'days' columns show how many player-days are needed to build each ship (it is the higher of the two numbers that counts); it also represents the replacement time. If every player had a Trincomalee and also used all their labour hours, then they could only get a replacement ship every 2.5 days. Better look after it, then. It is interesting to note that BH days are always less than LH days, and that is with level 1 buildings. No need to waste 200k on level 3 buildings and you can afford to leave some of that coal unmined. [edited] But the important number for inflation is gold per day. If you are making Trincomalees you churn out a new ship every 2.5 days, sinking 79273 gold in the process, meaning you are only spending 32000 gold a day. But how much gold can you generate in a day? Capturing a single traders cutter and selling the cargo to NPCs in the shop will usually get you that. It seems to me that gold will accumulate in the game far quicker than it can possibly be spent, and inflation will continue. Sure, we will all be poor to start with as we set up outposts and buildings (which, incidentally, for each player will probably sink more gold than making a 1st rate - this game is terribly punishing to new players), but this is a one time only cost. In a week we'll all be rolling in gold but there won't be any ships to be had to buy because they take so long to make. Now for a quick comparison with Pirates of the Burning Sea, since I happen to have the data to hand. Be a little wary of drawing too many conclusions as Naval Action has deliberately chosen a different path from PotBS. Perhaps most notably in this context, the original PotBS economy had severe restrictions on gold (doubloons or db) entering circulation and also sought to restrict the creation and use of 'elite' ships by setting very high gold and labour requirements, paths which NA appears not to wish to follow. Quite rightly it seems, as PotBS eventually abandoned both approaches, although to be fair the gold restriction looked sound from my point of view and just needed relaxing a little. But player complaints of having no money for crafting or buying anything resulted in a wholesale overturn of the policy, flooding the economy with gold from massively-generous repeatable missions, which unsurprisingly resulted in wild inflation. A couple years later by which time lots of players had first or second rates and port battles were won or lost before they even started by whichever nation was brave enough to bring the big ships (it was rarely both), first and second rates were removed entirely from the game. The numbers below are from build 1.26, before FTP and the disappearance of first and second rates. For those who never played, the Heavy Hercules was also an elite ship, hence its high price and labour requirements - it certainly wasn't five times better than the Capricieux MC: Ignoring the top three elites, there is a very interesting contrast with NA in just how few labour hours were needed to build the smaller ships. The Cap MC isn't far off a Trincomalee in its place in the game, but only took a day to build a 3-dura ship instead of over 2 days for a grey (and nearly 4 days for a gold). Smaller ships could be churned out very quickly indeed. However, despite the variation in gold and LH costs, PotBS ships are as consistent as NA in their gold per day requirements (again, excluding the elites at the top), suggesting NA has the right idea, just with the gold to labour ratio set too low. Edited as I origianlly had the 504 LH per real life day when it should have been 1108. Also the tables didn't copy across on the original so I have added them as images Edited again as I got the building hours wrong too. The clocks changing must have addled my brain, mking me think there were only 12 hours in day.
  16. Based on community feedback, this idea is no longer being considered. Please continue to provide constructive feedback on ideas that are being presented to assist Game-Labs with thinking through new ideas for the game. Thank you. - H. Darby Hello Captains. Some of you might remember "such is a lord" topic To make conquest bear more importance on release the number of buildings slots in port will be limited. This means that the city governor will be able to only allocate 25 land plots for construction of mines, manufactures and shipyards. This means only 25 Captains can own something in the city. (number is arbitrary and currently is equal to the number of port battle winners) The system will work like this. Once you conquer the port you will receive land grants from the new governor in all cities in that region. These land grants will be required to build buildings in the cities If the port is captured by an enemy nation - enemy nation will of course takeover the land and destroy your buildings. To be able to build anything in this city you will have to recapture it. Those who don't need buildings can of course sell those land grants to adventurous businessmen. If you win the port battle alone you will get all the permits to yourself. This system main goals are Control resource supply to avoid inflation in the future Provide huge incentive to conquer and participate in conquest (ps. that's why night flips are no longer viable and tolerable)
  17. I use this spreadsheet to organize my trading. Transportation whether Harbor Freight Fast (Delivery) or Harbor Freight Slow (Ship) depends on weight. This helps to combine and round up shipments. I have seven home ports labeled (A-G) from which I choose my Missions which I check daily. I put in the numbers, find total weights using two columns on left labeled “T wt” and ” #” that automatically calculate weight. I then look for compatible transportation and ports, put in orders and start making rounds with my ships while other orders are in transit. I made it to fit a single paper sheet. In the afternoon I train for battles and later in evening I finish up when Harbor Freight Express makes deliveries. My goal is to improve so I can beat up on the cowardly Pee Rats who have taken my ships, sailors, and cargo. There may be mistakes in this spreadsheet. Please share as you like. I love all the varied challenges this game provides while recognizing it isn’t for everyone. It’s a shame there is so much rancor. My nome de nave “Captain Blackie” is in honor of my Celestial Navigation teacher from Portland Oregon from late 1980’s. He loved the So Pacific, was tired of crashing wooden boats on reefs and built a steel boat in his backyard in Oregon City. Towed it to Willamette River and I have never heard from him since. If anyone knows of him or how to contact him please let me know. Here is a small part of spreadsheet. T wt # A B C D E F G H I 0 0 American Cotton 3.60 x 0 0 Arabian Coffee 1.86 115.2 2 Arctic Fox Pelts 57.60 x x 0 0 Assam Tea 1.34 x 0 0 Black Ironwood 108.80 0 0 Burgundian Wine 8.00 400 100 Cape Coast Honey 4.00 X goodslistsheetsbase.xls
  18. We currently have a maximum of five contracts per player, and are all flooded with dozens and dozens of stacks of materials or goods which we'd like to sell, but don't want to waste a contract on. For example, I'd sell tobacco and sugar and live oak and gold and rum and iron and planks and oak logs and fir logs and bermuda cedar logs and bermuda cedar frame parts and carriages and cables and hemp and tar... But I only have five contracts, so I can only sell five at a time, or buy five at a time, which is very prohibitive for my ability to engage in trade. Unless I can put bids out for every material I need, or to sell every material I have, I'm really only using the market at a limited efficiency. And with the diminished active player base, this is severely impairing our ability to use the market. I propose the limit on contracts be moved to twenty-five, fifty, or even (with a Merchant perk) one hundred. Contract limits didn't prevent price fixing and gouging, and I'd even think contributed to it, since it limits how many price signals can go out into the marketplace. We need a free flow of information about who wants to sell or buy what in order to have a functional economy.
  19. Well.. Today I took my ship to Port Royal/Kingston... Right into the harbor... sat there... took a screenshot of the pretty environs.... And left in my Renomee... Later I sailed from Coquibacoa to La Orchilla... Took the time and opportunity to sit in the harbor of Willemstadt... Took a screenshot of the pretty depopulated environs... And left in my endymion... All nice and all.. taking my warships to other nations capitols, going right into their harbors and fishing in their waters and finding no-one there.. I'm a dane mind you.. playing for Denmark-Norway... And I've never experienced such a demotivating hunting trip as to be able to sail right into enemy capitols harbours (did it twice btw) and finding no-one who cared to raise a challenge.. Dastardly dutch! Where did thou go? Bloody britts!! Where art thou?! The only faction I found a player presence in was the pirates.... And they ran faster than my Renomee - They were however polite enough to tell me that their ships were made of fir and therefore no match for my Renomee... And that the ships today are so hard to come by that they wouldn't risk them in battle.. If any1 know where the dutch are - please let me know.... If any1 know where the brits went - please tell... If anyone say they has seen someone playing for the US - you must be lying.. For I have found no-one..
  20. The bug is: Large Medkits are being sold from the NPC vendor at 5,000 gold, approximately. This is a bug since: 1. Crew hires from the dock are at 500 gold each. 2. Large medkits heal 150 crew. 3. Large medkits at 5,000 gold heal crew at 5,000 / 150 = 33 gold each. And also because, from player production: 1. Large medkits require 120 food, 30 tobacco and 30 rum. 2. Food is 210 for 6, or 35 gold each. 4200 = 35x120 2. Tobacco is 500 for 4 tobacco, 125 each. 3750 = 125x30 3. Rum is 416 gold for 8 sugar, plus 2 barrels to make 36 rum. Due to a number of derivatives, NPC sale price of 75 will be used. 2250 = 75x30 10,200 is thus the lowest possible price a player could make large medkits for, assuming all of his labor hours were uncompensated and he pushed his plantation production prices directly to the customer without a markup. The consequence of this bug is: The incentive to make medkits, as well as sugar and tobacco, is utterly destroyed, as is a large source of player trading, merchant commerce and gameplay as players no longer ship sugar and tobacco home from distant ports, but instead buy up the NPC production of the finished product as it spawns. This is destroying game content, both for crafters and for PvPers. An enormous amount of fighting occured before this patch between sugar and tobacco ports and capital cities. This has now died out entirely, whereas tobacco and sugar trade was previously a major source of open-world merchant traffic. The solution to this bug is: Make a design decision. Are medkits intended to be the player-crafted means of avoiding the 500 gold crew fee, and therefore, the driving force for tobacco and sugar production and trade? Or are medkits supposed to be bought up from NPCs and sold at a mark-up to ~45,000, where their price is set by being cheaper and more convenient than crew hires. Or did you actually intend to just dump health potions on players. As I understand it the design is thus; players take casualties, players buy medkits, players craft medkits, players produce sugar and tobacco, players ship sugar and tobacco to trade hubs, players fight against pirates, players take casualties. Thus sugar and tobacco are always in demand, merchants are always carrying sugar and tobacco, and combat occurs along these trade lanes. If that is the intended state, then any NPC produced medkits should vendor at the same price as crew hires; 500 gold a crewman, or 75,000 for a large medkit, 25,000 for a medium medkit, 5,000 for a small medkit. Thus there is a soft ceiling on prices set at the hiring cost of crew, so players in a harbor can always hire crew if the local medkits are too expensive. However medkits are worth more than the hire cost of the crew they replace, as they can restore crew while at sea. I almost think you meant to put small medkits on the market for 5,000 gold. That might be the bug, since the price that makes sense for small medkits was applied to large medkits, and small medkits aren't NPC'd to the market.
  21. I made these charts to flesh out the resources in game. There are a large set of basic goods that would be found in every port. Then there is a list of items that are only found in their respective national ports. These items are either produced there (very cheap) or brought there to be dispersed from other locations (cheap) that that nation owns. This way French players will always be able to provide French Glass at a much cheaper price than other nations, but their ports will need Iberian Dried Pork, which the Spanish will profit from as well, and so on. This will drive more historical trading and give national players a reason to use their home ports and to make meaningful and long distance trade runs, not just the most profitable short run. It will rely on permanent production/consumption settings that don't reset with maintenance. I researched these items across the inter webs, some of them I already knew about, this book was a good read as well "Daily Life in the Age of Sail", as well as wiki articles on the economic history of some nations. If you know of a quintessential national item that was heavily traded in this era, let me know and I can add it to the list. I counted the spaces in the port UI and there isn't room for hundreds of items, however, it will have a limit. A rare common item is comparable in price to a plentiful fine item, the quality and availability will both affect price. Universal British, Spanish, French Danish Swedish, Dutch American
  22. I'm trying to create a picture of the money flow in Naval Action. Maybe I got it right, maybe I got it wrong. Please let me know. Completely forgot: Buy Ships, Buy Mods. https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1suJKHGukZ9YO6ByVpnuHfQv4LyrSEHk6W-FXe_u1bSs/edit
  23. This topic serves as an inventory of all good proposal that might lead into an economics patch. Should we come to a concise proposal, we'll put it forward to admin for implementation after the politics patch. To keep things organized and not end up with a topic full of disjointed posts, I would like to ask everybody to create topics within either the "Suggestions" section or the "Economy, Trading and Crafting" discussions section and post your link here. I'll ensure that this top post will be kept up to date with links to each individual proposal/discussion that the community feels is needed for the economics patch. (Be forewarned, I'll be naturally biased to my own topics. ) Note that the final inventory may not (and probably won't) reflect the first (or even the final) implementation as everything is subject to admins discretion in terms of wanted functionality and technical complexity. Keep an open mind and exploit test everything. Babble's Road Map, Table of Contents - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12696-the-road-map-table-of-contents/ Babble's Road Map, Resources and Resource Distribution & Production and Manufacture Buildings - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12710-the-road-map-section-9-10/ CaptVonGunn's An easier life with contracts - http://forum.game-la...easier-in-game/ Cid Pahlavi's Compass Wood Ruined The Economy - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13257-compass-wood-ruin-the-economy/ fransgelden's Static Economy - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11946-static-economy/ GeekSqueak's The Economy (and other things) - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/5590-the-economy-and-other-things/ Jean Ribault's Buy & Sell Contract Expiry - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15297-buy-sell-contract-expiry/ Mageprince's Portside Business? - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/1840-portside-business/ Qwolf's Player only economy - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15740-player-only-economy/ Skully's Do not surrender, here comes The Money Sink - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/16087-do-not-surrender-here-comes-the-money-sink/ Skully's Guide to working the Tobacco Market - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15026-pvp1-july-tobbies-tobacco-imperium/ Skully's Market Maker - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14980-compassfish-market-crashes-where-is-the-market-maker/ Skully's Max. Amount of Contracts (as of 9.92) - http://forum.game-la...acts-as-of-992/ Skully's No more taxes - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15088-no-more-taxes/ Skully's The economic AI - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15277-the-economic-ai/ SteelSandwich's The National Bank - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12946-the-national-bank/ Wilhlem von Bromme's Max. amount of contracts - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11063-max-amount-of-contracts/ Proposals that are not top-level yet (do not comment in those topics, like and wait for them to come top-level):Prater's Taxation Schemes - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15088-no-more-taxes/?p=280040 Issues/bugs:Equal priced order fulfillment - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14758-equal-priced-orders-should-fulfill-the-oldest-not-the-newest/ Joernson's Message about fulfilled (buy/sell) contract - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15218-message-about-fulfilled-buysell-contract/ Skully's Sell Contract doesn't interact with Port - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15169-sell-contract-does-not-interact-with-port/ snakemac's Player buy contract under AI buy price - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15595-player-buy-contracts-under-cost-of-production-at-selling-ports/ Tacticus's Rum/Sugar bug problem - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15017-rumsugar-bug/ Tanacious's Contract size/price problem - http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15136-minumum-buy-amount-sealed-bottles-of-60-units/
  24. Low AI demand, high production plus reasonable player demand equals competition! That market is working in this regard. Something that needed to be said.
  25. Thought I should create a seperate thread for this conversation from the feedback thread to avoid confusion. A problem on some parts of servers is that some people have been lacking enough labor hours, causing their price to skyrocket. This conversation has been discussed in depth in the general economy suggestions thread, and I found it incovnvenient to have this and other conversations going on in the same same thread, so This thread has been created.
  • Create New...